What’s The Appeal of Euro Cars

maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 00:11

Howdy all

I’ve been looking at cars lately and was wondering what the thought process is when someone opts for a European car over an Asian (namely Korean and Japanese) alternative.

I don’t understand the logic. When new, model for model spec for spec the Euro car is at least 10k more in more cases like 20k more and in some cases almost double the price. And it’s not like the euro car has more tech or features than the Asian car.

Then there’s the depreciation which is ungodly. For instance F30 3 series are under 20k these days even with the Covid tax. That’s over 50k lost value.

Then in the used market there’s the reliability, VWs, BMWs, Mercs, Fiats and Audis dominate the worst cars lists in almost every category. They just seem to fall apart after a few years.

I can understand when buying an uber luxury or sports car that’s well over $100k, they bring a level of engineering, sophistication and style that the competition can’t necessarily match but when in comes to the mainstream normal every day cars I don’t get it. Why would someone choose to buy an Audi Q5 over a Mazda CX-5 or if you want luxury a Lexus RX. The Japanese/Korean car will almost certainly last longer, be more reliable, hold its value better, way easier and cheaper to maintain and straight up cheaper to boot. I just don’t understand.

Can people tell me why someone looking to buy a mainstream car would choose a European brand. Cos from a rational perspective it just doesn’t make sense, even when it comes to justifying it by it comes with that European cachet. Because it’s just a mainstream car that’s more expensive, its not some exclusive, sophisticated, cool whatever.

Automotive

Comments

  • ShannonN on 22/01/2022 - 00:28
    +3

    Many people living here are Europeans and prior to living here had access to all these brands maybe it could be a familiarity thing maybe

    • netjock on 22/01/2022 - 16:46
      +19

      More like many people here travel to Europe and thought they fancy a German taxi. Pity about the service and parts bill.

    • sauce2k on 24/01/2022 - 17:00
      +6

      many people living here are Europeans…what the..lol

      • Dogsrule on 29/01/2022 - 21:28
        +1

        Didn't you know Captain Cook drove a BMW M3?

  • nephilim on 22/01/2022 - 00:35
    +5

    Its those cars that impact the bell curve of the average person owning a car for 3 years, because thats their average warranty and lease (doctors, business people, managers). edit: talking about luxury cars, not fiat 500's.

    Outside of a few stand outs like the X5, most of them owned by posers once they get older.
    There is a huge industry of people who flip these cars, especially to people from Arab counties. backyard dudes who buy them wrecked/junk to resell.

    • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 00:49
      +1

      If you were in that income range then yeah a Euro car that’s over 100k would make sense. But I’m talking about mainstream Mercedes A class, C class BMW 1, 3 series etc. how much more would they offer.

      And as I mentioned ownage once they’re older seems to be a roll of the dice.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2022 - 03:32
        +3

        Differences used to be much bigger.

        Some years back had an A1 and A3. That time, there weren't any Asian eqv that offers:
        1. Turbo charged small capacity engine for daily commute
        2. Better sound insulation
        3. Harder suspension

        Also had a cooper s r53 and it was a unique pocket rocket back then.

        Less so nowadays.

        • Kangal on 22/01/2022 - 11:20
          +16

          This.
          Euro cars had an edge against Japanese cars when it came to looks, materials, performance, and bonus features. In the late-90's the Japanese cars caught up to them in the Quality segment, and some variants in terms of performance, but were still lacking in other departments.

          In the mid-00's I'd say most of those advantages also diminished. So if you have a Japanese (or Korean) car from the last 10-Years (which is a long time when it comes to products), you basically don't have any need for a Euro car. The last bit is they still hold prestige. But in our land of laidback attitude, that's much less admired and pronounced.

          However, if money is no object, it makes sense to buy an expensive Euro.
          You get more, and pay (way) more. And before all the problems arise, you pawn it off to some sucker. Who then buys it off you for (way) less money… but you don't care about that since money is no object.

        • buckster on 23/01/2022 - 22:26

          Agreed, hot hatches ~10 years ago we basically euros and ford focuses(with their dreadful transmission), nothing Asian came close in performance

          • [Deactivated] on 23/01/2022 - 22:48
            +2

            @buckster: I would say 20 years ago for daily commuting cars. For exmaple Corolla Sportivo introduced $30k in 2003 with 2ZZ-GE VVTL-i was a game changer. As well the Pulsar GTi-R

            The following sports car in late 80s were game changers too.
            - Toyota, Supra, MR2, Celica
            - Honda, NSX, Integrate Type R, Civic Type R
            - Mazda, RX-7
            - Nissan, Skyline, SX200/Silvia, ZX300
            - Mitsubishi, Evolutions
            - Subaru, WRX

            GFC wiped it all the fun/interesting cars, whilst the europeans have moved on with small turbo charger, firmer suspension and better sound insulation. The Japanese caught up again the recent 10 years.

            2 years back, had a chance to drive a Toyota CHR… nothing to complain about for a small daily workhorse. Cabin was very refined.

        • dukeGR4 on 26/01/2022 - 14:59

          How many years back? Civic Type R comes to mind tho tyre roar seems to be horrendous. But again, tbf, many euro performance have that issue as well.

  • brad1-8tsi on 22/01/2022 - 00:38
    +17

    I have a 2007 Octavia that cost me $30k DA which was cheaper than a Mazda3 at the time. The features and tech of the Skoda were far better than our 2005 Accord Euro Luxury which was $49k. Reliability has been more or less equal.
    The Honda has needed 10 batteries, an alternator, starter motor and fuel pump.
    The Skoda has had 3 batteries and a fuel pump and the AC compressor has died.
    The Honda interior is pretty good, the Skoda is interior disintegrating due to Aussie heat and UV.
    The They have similar power but the Skoda averages 7l/100km; the Honda 9L/100km. The Skoda 1.8turbo is quicker than the Honda 2.4na.

    I've worked for BMW and Toyota and the Euro cars have a lot more soul and are more engaging to drive (although the Accord Euro isn't bad when you get up it).

    • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 00:59

      Interesting. However the work there I don’t believe is major, things that you would expect with age although ten batteries seems a bit high to me over 16 years.

      The interior is another good point, from what I’ve seen the Aussie sun seems to punish the euro cars a lot more than the Asian cars.

      With engagement I get that, and Toyotas are pretty boring but there’s a bunch of Hondas and Mazdas that I think are pretty engaging.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2022 - 04:23
        +6

        Toyota boring? drive the new range of GR models and you would change your tone in a heartbeat.

        GR86 , GR Yaris , GR Supra and even a new GR Corolla right around the corner now.

        • Bypass on 23/01/2022 - 05:49
          +11

          The GR Yaris is a proper sporty Toyota. But the 86 is a Subaru and the Supra is BMW.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/01/2022 - 05:52

            @Bypass: You're right , although I've heard a lot of great things about the new GR86. So many much needed improvements besides the power increase.

            I know i know..at the end of the day its a boxer motor from their joint venture but its still a nice drive where it counts , in the bends. But this time they have actually made it look half decent.

          • Commander Shepard on 25/01/2022 - 18:09
            +1

            @Bypass: Toyota might have good sports cars now. But their sporty offerings over the last 20 years is pretty much non existant.

            And the original 86/BRZ drove like trash compared to an MX5.

        • MandMs13 on 24/01/2022 - 10:13

          The irony of you mentioning the Supra in your statement…..

      • Jackson on 23/01/2022 - 21:43
        +1

        10 batteries is insane. You are either letting them run flat cos it's your second car or there's some sort of problem. Both my cars have had the same battery for about 10 years now, and one is a Camry which is in the same class.

        • tebbybabes on 24/01/2022 - 10:56
          +1

          wow. I've never had a battery last 10 years. I think the longest I ever got was 5. I don't have actual numbers but it feels like my average is 4.

          • Jackson on 24/01/2022 - 11:59
            +1

            @tebbybabes: One of the cars is an EV (so never really gets deep discharged) and the other only goes on very long trips (due to always driving the EV, and therefore again doesn't often get deep discharged but it does sometimes due to the fact that the car isn't driven alot for a few weeks at time) so both are in great shape. Also one is the OEM and the other is the top of the line NRMA provided one for the vehicle.

        • brad1-8tsi on 25/01/2022 - 00:10

          10 batteries is insane. You are either letting them run flat cos it's your second car or there's some sort of problem.

          How odd that the honda goes through batteries like there's no tmw and the Skoda's last 5-7 yrs.

          The Accord Euro battery is undersized for a vehicle with power everything and a 2.4litre engine. It's the same battery as was in my 1967 Corolla and all that had to do was start the engine.

          So many comments by people that have never seen how small the standard battery in a 2005 Euro is.

          A Camry battery is a decent size

          • Jackson on 25/01/2022 - 00:38

            @brad1-8tsi: Surely it would be more economical putting in an overspec battery, is there space? I usually find there a fair bit of wiggle room with getting larger batteries in. Maybe even worth a Li Ion at that rate

            • brad1-8tsi on 25/01/2022 - 12:42

              @Jackson:

              more economical putting in an overspec battery, is there space?

              Nope. I'm a mech by trade. I looked at this in 2016 when we inherited the vehicle.

      • chartparker on 25/01/2022 - 11:22

        The Aussie sun/heat also punishes anything plastic on them. My Mk4 Golf basically had all of the plastics in the cooling system spontaneously disintegrate while I was driving home in pouring rain on the Monash. I do wonder how long the new Golfs will last with their plastic oils sumps.

        • King Tightarse on 25/01/2022 - 11:59
          +1

          Yep, paint too. My father had an Audi, metallic green. He parked it always facing the same way due to the one-way street outside his terrace house in inner city Melbourne and no garage. Within a five or six years the car need a full respray as it has weirdly faded on the side facing the weal Melbourne sun and the door plastics etc had faded and cracked on that side too. He did it as the car still had low kms but the definitely do not fare well in the Aussie sun
          They must just come to bits further north in hotter climates.

    • ESEMCE on 22/01/2022 - 09:16
      +21

      10 batteries? That's one every 18 months?
      What are you doing to it?

      • mskeggs on 22/01/2022 - 12:18
        +5

        Is using Duracell disposables.

        • cwongtech on 23/01/2022 - 17:08
          +2

          Should have opted for Eneloops.

      • Oofy Doofy on 22/01/2022 - 16:17

        short trips.

        • ESEMCE on 24/01/2022 - 09:02
          +1

          They must be 5 minute short trips only… You can push start a car and drive it for 10 minutes and have sufficient charge to crank the engine from a flat battery, I've done it on multiple occasions.

          I wonder how many were replaced before the alternator was? And therefore how many died due to abuse from a faulty alternator.
          Seems likely that the starter motor replacement is linked to the faulty alternator and continually dying batteries. Extra cranking time to get the engine to fire cause the output of the batteries was insufficient.

          • brad1-8tsi on 25/01/2022 - 00:16

            @ESEMCE:

            Seems likely that the starter motor replacement is linked to the faulty alternator and continually dying batteries.

            You are close in some respects. At least 1 battery met a premature end because of excess current draw from the starter motor. That was probably happening for 2 years without being diagnosed.

            The alternator just died of old age. Fantastic one minute, RIP the next.

            The fuel pump died on Boxing Day in the same way. Motoring along at 100kph and it failed without any previous symptoms. Usually they die after an overnight pause.

    • netjock on 22/01/2022 - 21:12
      +13

      Euro cars have a lot more soul

      Because you need to sell your soul to pay for the parts.

      • Shmack0 on 24/01/2022 - 12:37

        😂😂🙈

    • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2022 - 23:43
      +2

      More engaging to drive? I will disagree.

      This is not differentiated by euro vs japanese. It is down to the car…

      • netjock on 24/01/2022 - 13:02
        +1

        More engaging to drive?

        Our course, you need to pray it doesn't break down before getting in and both driving and praying takes a lot of effort. Explains why sometimes indicators don't work.

    • cannedhams on 23/01/2022 - 08:52
      +3

      Skodas are fairly bang for buck by European standards, though. I wouldnt say that they are driven by posers.

      • brad1-8tsi on 25/01/2022 - 00:17

        Skodas are fairly bang for buck by European standards,

        They were when I bought mine. Not any more.

    • Poor Ass on 23/01/2022 - 10:08

      That Accord in those years weren't built good agreed. Especially the power steering.

    • Fobsessive on 23/01/2022 - 20:31
      +1

      10 batteries?! Maybe get the electricals checked and look at the grounding

  • altomic on 22/01/2022 - 00:52
    -1

    drive a SAAB 900 turbo for a day.
    a car designed and built by an aircraft manufacturer.
    it's a thing of beauty….but also expensive if something goes wrong.

    • pegaxs on 22/01/2022 - 09:37
      +18

      Are you kidding? Saabs were terrible. And I can assure you, their cars came out of the same design studio as their trucks, not their jets. Terrible ride quality, garbage interiors, electrical problems, mechanical issues and expensive to repair.

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 22/01/2022 - 09:55
        +5

        Years back had a SAAB 900, as it aged it was a money pit. Finding a reliable mechanic to keep it going was a pain. Trans went twice in a 4 year period.

        • netjock on 22/01/2022 - 21:14
          -1

          Years back had a SAAB 900

          European cars seem to suffer from what they call Monday and Friday cars.

          Monday morning and Friday afternoon people turn up not wanting to work and the quality is dire. The Euro I have is luck of the draw, I heard about these Monday and Friday lemons.

          Japanese and Korean seems to have a better work ethic and makes sure quality remains the same through the week.

      • djones145 on 25/01/2022 - 09:39

        the old SAAB 900 was a tank! a real bumper bar of hard plastic
        parents had numerous crashes (mostly not their fault), the car had minor bumps while the other was smashed badly

        however… after 10 years SELL SELL SELL
        everything breaks after 10 years

        we sold the lemon fast!

    • chartparker on 25/01/2022 - 11:24
      +1

      Found the architect. I've got some black turtlenecks I can sell you

  • Oz8argain on 22/01/2022 - 01:03
    +21

    it's like girls buying handbags, they want to show off the have the Gucci / LV etc but they can only afford the cheapest / smallest bags, while there are tones of great quality bags out there.

  • SF3 on 22/01/2022 - 01:06
    +15

    What’s The Appeal of Euro Cars

    Appeal to emotion.

    Emotions are always more powerful than rational logic.

    • Quantumcat on 22/01/2022 - 13:53

      I wonder what the emotion side even is, I get excited about something that's going to last 20 years with low to no mechanical problems and cheap servicing and parts. An ugly weird looking car with less features for the same money that will break down a lot more and be expensive to repair - how can that possibly excite anybody

      • ProlapsedHeinous on 22/01/2022 - 14:48
        +8

        some people just budget for a new car every 3-4 years and therefore don't care about the long term reliability, as long as their issues are sorted for free during the warranty period.

        • Quantumcat on 22/01/2022 - 15:39

          You'd have to not care about money because surely they'd be worth a lot less to sell than an Asian car

          • Smol Cat on 23/01/2022 - 23:37
            +3

            @Quantumcat: For some people it isn’t always about the money. It’s about the feel and enjoyment you get out of a thing before it, or yourself, inevitably dies.

      • Jaysful on 30/01/2022 - 03:53

        I have been on both sides of this coin. And I have to agree and disagree.

        Went through Magna, Tarago, Camry, Civic, Accord. Then have been with Tiguan, 2 series, Golf, X5. (all are various family cars throughout the decades)

        Early days when I only saw my car a tool for A to B, it was a frigging dream with minimum fuss and cost. When I moved onto Euros, I suddenly started to notice the difference in interior design, driving experience etc, and it made me care about cars and the driving experience. When went on road trips, I looked forward to the drive and not just the destination. Driving and 'emotion' became part of the car ownership. Downside is obvious, maintenance, insurance premium, premium petrol and the list goes on…

        But I've also seen people who went in the opposite direction. In their younger days, 110% driving experience, performance, drip etc. and slowly got over it and went down the 'practical' route.

  • p1 ama on 22/01/2022 - 01:11
    +9

    The Japanese/Korean car will almost certainly last longer, be more reliable, hold its value better, way easier and cheaper to maintain and straight up cheaper to boot. I just don’t understand.

    In trying to argue that European cars are not that different from others, you are actually arguing that they are very different (just in the opposite direction).

    Ultimately it's worth remembering that cars are relatively simple things - you'd be surprised at how long your car will move as long as you change the oil + filter, engine coolant and remember to top up your fluids (e.g. brake fluid) and change your spark plugs and battery once in a while.

    • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 01:59
      -3

      Not with the Euro cars. Even when you stick to the service schedule to the absolute T it still has major failures. Whereas with some Toyotas especially the the Corollas and Yaris you can skip the oil change for 3 years and it’ll still go strong. I don’t think a golf would ever survive that kind of abuse.

      • brendanm on 22/01/2022 - 08:53
        +3

        Not with the Euro cars. Even when you stick to the service schedule to the absolute T it still has major failures.

        This is the same as any car. Base model euros have a higher chance of issues, as the people who buy them don't want to spend money on them, they've spent all their money buying the car initially. Had a woman with an xf Jag when they were still newish, it needed tyres and brakes. She couldn't pay, said she may own a Jag but she isn't rich.

        • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 10:34
          -2

          Yeah but from my point above. Even if you didn’t maintain an Asian car it’ll still likely run fine whereas with a Euro you’d almost be guaranteed a major failure.

          • p1 ama on 22/01/2022 - 11:22
            +10

            @maxyzee: This is the most ignorant thing I've heard. I drive a Toyota, but have owned Euros in the past. There's no "special sauce" - they all work in the same way.

            If you're saying you're almost guaranteed a major failure, what failure are you talking about and why would that happen on a Euro but not a Toyota?

            • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 12:07
              -5

              @p1 ama: Purely from an anecdotal point of view, I had mate that owned a 2005 Yaris, he abused that thing to no end, you couldn’t see the floor cos there was so much trash, did not maintain it at all, didn’t even change the oil for 3 years. Time finally came for him to take it a mechanic cos he was moving interstate and the car was totally fine (this was back in 2011). Just changed the oil and it’s still running fine to this day.

              I don’t believe a Polo or Golf or A class or whatever else would survive that kind of treatment.

              Just look at the cars from the 90s and 00s that are still on the road today. I remember a stat from 2019 in Aus I believe it was something like 75% of 90s cars still registered are Toyotas. That says something, I know the data can be skewed cos Toyotas would have had more volume sold but still. Just saying the evidence seems to point in one direction.

              • jrowls on 22/01/2022 - 15:47
                -2

                @maxyzee: Mate… people (here and all over the rest of the world) buy Golfs and Polos and treat them like absolute garbage. They are cheaper in most places vs here, don't forget.

                Golfs and polos have some of the most reliable engines there are. Of course, they had massive DSG issues and I know the diesels can be a bit finicky, but petrol Golf/Polo engines take abuse much the same way as any Corolla or Yaris.

              • p1 ama on 22/01/2022 - 17:37
                +7

                @maxyzee:

                Purely from an anecdotal point of view,

                Anecdotes don't mean anything - you can always find people who have had good / bad experiences.

                I don’t believe a Polo or Golf or A class or whatever else would survive that kind of treatment.

                I have a mate who owned a BMW in the 90s, did nothing except change the engine oil and filter every year and the car was fine until he sold it years later.

                The issue I have with what you're saying is that it has no basis in engineering - the VW / Merc engine works in exactly the same way as a Toyota engine does. There's nothing special about the European engine that will meak it "not survive" (to use your terminology). Additionally, you're using extremely vague language to mask the fact that you don't really have any facts - e.g. you're saying that a VW / Merc will "not survive", but not saying what issues it's actually likely to have.

                FWIW, the fact that your mate's Yaris survived for 3 years without having the oil changed is more a testament to how good modern synthetic oils are as opposed to anything about the engine itself…

                At the end of the day, I think you've already made up your mind. If you're not actually open minded about Euro cars and would never buy one, then never think about them again and be happy with your Kia Stinger - it's a good car and you should spend the time enjoying driving it instead.

                • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 17:58
                  -4

                  @p1 ama: But there is evidence that shows that in terms quality at least the euro cars are inferior. Just look at the survey results for owner satisfaction. The American brands are also pretty guilty as well in fact.

                  My point is what’s the logic of buying a Base model Euro. For me it doesn’t add up and effectively you’re just paying for the badge. I guess if that’s important to you then that’s fine but know that’s what you’re paying for.

                  I would still consider a Euro but only brand new and only the high end. Think AMG, RS, M etc. if and when the time comes when I can easily afford those cars and not worry about the depreciation or running costs then it makes sense to me. To me that point is earning close to 7 figures so I probably will never get there. Right now I can afford those but not in a way that it’s like a whatever type of purchase. So a euro doesn’t make sense to me when there are so many better value alternatives.

                  • p1 ama on 22/01/2022 - 18:51
                    +7

                    @maxyzee:

                    But there is evidence that shows that in terms quality at least the euro cars are inferior. Just look at the survey results for owner satisfaction. The American brands are also pretty guilty as well in fact.

                    You keep moving the goal posts. First it was that they have mechanical problems, now it's that the "quality is inferior" and owners are not satisfied.

                    My issue is that you seem to not really know much about what you're talking about and you're using pretty vague language to mask your lack of knowledge.

                    For example, if you were knowledgeable, you would be able to say exactly which Euro cars are unreliable, why they are unreliable, what tends to break down…etc. However, you're saying very general things about "Euro cars" which don't mean anything.

                    My point is what’s the logic of buying a Base model Euro. For me it doesn’t add up and effectively you’re just paying for the badge.

                    Sure, people are stupid. Does that make you feel better?

                    I guess if that’s important to you then that’s fine but know that’s what you’re paying for.

                    I drive a Toyota, so it is what it is.

                    Right now I can afford those but not in a way that it’s like a whatever type of purchase. So a euro doesn’t make sense to me when there are so many better value alternatives.

                    Then be happy with your Kia Stinger, it's a great car to drive. Be a shame to waste your time arguing online about other people's car decisions.

                    • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 19:36
                      -2

                      @p1 ama: I’m not a mechanic or work in the industry so yeah I wouldn’t have the detailed knowledge but just going by what’s publicly available it points in one direction. Why would I need to point out exactly which model has which issues. You could google that.
                      With that being said here are some examples from a little googling.
                      Polo: suspension and various electrics, DPF for the diesel
                      3 series: oil leaks, coolant leaks and electrics
                      C class: the infamous infotainment
                      Land/Range Rover: pretty much everything

                      We seem to be in agreement that rationality doesn’t come into play here and people just want the badge. I would love to have an E60 M5 with that V10 but no way in hell would actually ever want to own one with the amount in repairs costing more than the car itself. If I wanted something similar from around that era I’d just go for an IS F and be worry free.

                • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2022 - 19:52

                  @p1 ama: 90s bmws were built different. those things don't die unless you drift it into a wall

          • brendanm on 22/01/2022 - 12:01

            @maxyzee: That's not true at all. I've worked on plenty of jap/Korean cars with issues. Some Toyota engines (gr series and the mz) are terrible for oil coking. Had one that had an oil leak, as the camshaft ate out the side of the head due to lack of oiling.

            Don't just listen to fairy tales on the internet.

            • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 12:12

              @brendanm: I know that there are Asian shitboxes. But as a whole on the macro level the Asian cars just last longer.

              And obviously the more highly strung engines with more power requires more attention and care but as a generalisation for the normal everyday cars the Euros just seem to not last.

              Basically what I’m saying is I wouldn’t buy a Euro unless it was one of the special cars where there is an objective pro to those cars.

              • brendanm on 22/01/2022 - 12:37

                @maxyzee: I was a car mechanic for 14 years or so, I've got a bit of an idea about this.

                Basically what I’m saying is I wouldn’t buy a Euro unless it was one of the special cars where there is an objective pro to those cars.

                Neither would I, base model ones generally suck. Doesn't have to be "special", just not base model, underpowered, underoptioned junk.

    • afoveht on 22/01/2022 - 06:36
      +5

      cars are relatively simple things - you'd be surprised at how long your car will move

      Not really. Cars are relatively complicated things, composed of many parts all built down to a price and subject to significant stresses. The fact they don't break too often is a testament to great engineering and manufacturing.

      • Kangal on 22/01/2022 - 11:24

        This.
        A sedan from the late-50s, now that "car" is a relatively simple thing.

        • md333 on 22/01/2022 - 15:04

          But probably a lot less reliable than a modern car, certainly more maintenance intensive. Glad we don't have to adjust points or clean carburettors anymore.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2022 - 23:57
      +2

      Yes and no.

      Japanese tend to stick to what works whilst europeans are 'innovative'.

      The cost of being 'innovative' is unknown issues that will only surface over a period of time.

      For example, a toyotoa 2gr is an OLD engine, but it works. They have introduced ds-4 into a direct injection engine that no other manufacturer has managed. They have continue to refine the same engine.

      Cant say the same about european cars. Engine as an example tend to have much shorter life cycle.

      Hardware might be well engineered, but not the control units and a less stringent QC process.

      Two very distinct approach between euro and jap. Needless say which one translates into 'reliability'.

  • tonyjzx on 22/01/2022 - 01:13
    +14

    drive one and come back

    if you cant afford it, you cant afford it and you'll make whatever justifcation you have for driving a 1998 corolla

    dont get me wrong, there's some euro shitboxes but if you pick a mid range german car in a sedan or suv then you're likely to find some things that they do better than others

    maybe you cant ascertain the difference and that's great too… enjoy your camry

    • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 01:37
      +4

      Well the thing is I have a 2021 Kia Stinger GT. I was looking at en equivalent Euro and couldn’t justify it, the C43 and 340i x drives were nearing double to what the Kia costs. And yeah I could afford it if I wanted it but I haven’t got into the financial position that I’m in now by making those emotional type of decisions.

      Also let’s look at the Camry example. The top Camry SL is 52k the bottom C200 is 75k. What does that extra 23k bring. Yeah the Camry is boring as hell but I wouldn’t think the C200 buyer would be exploring the dynamic limits of their car would they?

      • snajper on 22/01/2022 - 23:52
        +6

        Are you really going to compare Camry to C class Merc.
        I have always driven either Jap or Aus car and have recently purchased a Golf. Even though Golf is by far the cheapest new car i have ever owned it is miles ahead in every aspect compared to anything i have owned. Second best would have been my new Honda Accord Euro from when Honda use to make cars properly. Jap and Korean cars have always and still do play a catchup game with Euro makers. They are more reliable but a lot of them are reliable appliances not cars.

        • maxyzee on 23/01/2022 - 13:26
          -2

          A new car is always going to be miles ahead of an older car. The finish the feel etc. Comparing a new car to your current old car no matter what it is is always going to feel miles ahead.
          Hell even my stinger even though it’s just 6 months old, because of kids and life and wornot somehow feels kinda old compared to the Elantra/i30 N that I’ve got a few days ago.
          In terms of playing catch-up yes in some cases the Euro car can be ahead in tech and design but that usually applies to the higher end not so much the base. Although I was looking for a mk8 golf GTI but from the reports of how shit the infotainment was it just put me off. There’s just something inherently dangerous by making essential functions part of the touch screen. That’s what put me off the Tesla as well.

          • Smol Cat on 24/01/2022 - 00:01
            +2

            @maxyzee: So here you are apparently owning a Stinger, i30N and considering buying a GTI - yet you’re still arguing about scraps online. Yeah that makes real financial sense.

            • maxyzee on 25/01/2022 - 12:00
              -1

              @Smol Cat: Why would I still be considering a GTI. I got the i30 N instead. The pros of the i30 N were greater than the pros of the GTI. Namely the i30N being cheaper and more certain of its reliability.

              After trolling through a bunch of reviews and articles and going through our own family history of cars I just thought I’d pose the question. With all the evidence out there someone would still pick a Euro over an equivalent Asian car. E.g a Jetta or A4 over an Accord or Camry or whatever.

          • matt_will_fix_it on 25/01/2022 - 22:59

            @maxyzee:

            A new car is always going to be miles ahead of an older car. The finish the feel etc. Comparing a new car to your current old car no matter what it is is always going to feel miles ahead.

            No it's not. I've got a 2014 Audi Q5 and have recently had a 2021 hire car. So many features and trim missing from the hire car (admittantly it is a MG which is the cheapest of the cheap)

      • ajGold on 23/01/2022 - 02:49
        +3

        Depends on what's important to your needs. I really liked the Stinger and seriously considered it. Then dad-mode kicked in. The GT-Line (not GT) has extremely similar specs and price to a Skoda Superb Sportline. The Stinger brings some better fittings and warranty. The Superb brings AWD and a wagon option that delivers 836L more cargo space than the Stinger. With my kids and dog, and my preference for the Superb's interior, that's how I ended up with the Euro. We could get into tiny details about why the Stinger might have been a better choice on paper because it offered XYZ, but the Superb just suits us.

        • tonyjzx on 23/01/2022 - 14:01

          i also think that if you pick a performance asian car then you're unfairly stacking the deck

          i've driven the base base base bmw 320 mercedes c200 and audi a4 and you cannot compare to an asian sedan that's half the price

          but is it 2x as better? hmmm

  • kyle on 22/01/2022 - 02:15
    +13

    The beautiful sound of door closing that European cars make.

    • plmko on 22/01/2022 - 02:40
      +1

      Almost like the hallmark thud sound of an expert tyre kicker.

    • pharkurnell on 22/01/2022 - 19:06
      +1

      you can download that as an mp3 off the internet and play it to yourself for 100k less…

  • hdus002 on 22/01/2022 - 02:15
    +3

    Could be subjective, but I feel apart from the lowest in the ranges, cars of certain euro brands just 'seem' nicer overall - interiors feel better put together, the car shape & aesthetics look better, and mostly drive more taut and tight.

    I've heard arguments about maintenance being expensive, but this is only an issue for cars over 4-5 years. If you don't intend to keep cars that long, this really is a non-issue. A lot of people buying euro cars I'd think claim them as business expenses, and it makes sense to flip them every 3 or so years.

    I'm not a euro fanboi and will prefer to buy a Lexus if they had better-looking (less angular/futuristic looking) cars with better-sorted electronics. But sadly the mid-range SUV's (NX/RX) from Lexus just look weird to me and most reviews complain about the entertainment units being hard to use.

    • kyle on 22/01/2022 - 02:24

      I like the Lexus too with the sound proof interior but it just doesn't take off quick enough

    • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 02:32

      I get your point when it comes to the higher end. But in the mainstream are they really that much better? Would a GLC offer that much more than a top spec sportage or CX5? Or Golf offer more than an i30 or Mazda 3?

      The Lexus thing is a bit unfortunate, they seem to be going through what the BMWs did in the 2000s. But at least they won’t be pieces of junk after 5 years. And it can continue to serve a function and not end up as scrap cos the next owner gave up trying to endlessly fix the myriad of issues.

      • Hybroid on 22/01/2022 - 05:19
        +8

        Would a GLC offer that much more than a top spec sportage or CX5

        As someone that's owned a GLC and knows someone with a CX5, hell yes. Completely different quality levels in materials, comfort, feel, performance, driving dynamics, suspension etc.

        • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 09:52
          -2

          Ok maybe I get your point compared to the Cx5. What about the Genesis GV70? If you look that it’s very much on par. And again spec for spec the Genesis would be around 10-20k cheaper.

          • CrushJelly on 22/01/2022 - 15:54
            +1

            @maxyzee: GV70 isn't cheaper than an equivalent X3 or Q5.

            I priced up the 2.5T against the 30i and 45TFI, with the same technology across all. The 30i and 45TFSI were the same negotiated price - since the Genesis is fixed pricing.

            The interior of the GV70 is certainly better than the standard Hyundai (I tested the Palisade Highlander), but it's no match for choice of quality materials in the X3, which we ended up with.

            If you were comparing the 3.5T to the M40i and SQ5, then there would be a big difference in price in favour of the GV70. But for the 2.5T, absolutely shit in terms of value.

            • CrushJelly on 23/01/2022 - 09:00
              +1

              @CrushJelly: Lol I'd love for anyone who neg'd my comment to actually provide some proof to the contrary.

              We have recently taken delivery of an MY22 X3 30i, and also negotiated for the same spec'd up Q5 45TFSI, and have also test driven the GV70 2.5T and 3.5T.

              The X3 30i was cheaper than the GV70 2.5T with the required sport/luxury packages to match the X3.

          • May4th on 23/01/2022 - 09:05

            @maxyzee: GV70 isnt in the same league as CX5, it's already a premium product. The extra 10-20k is in the brand recognition and heritage. Luxury labels takes decades and billions of marketing to build, if you have an equivalent product no one will choose a rebadged hyundai over merc if you dont compete on price/value

            • CrushJelly on 24/01/2022 - 14:18

              @May4th:

              no one will choose a rebadged hyundai over merc if you dont compete on price/value

              Exactly, and this plays into resale value as well.

              We were willing to give the Genesis badge a go, but if the driveaway price is not materially different to the established brands (BMW/Audi/Mercedes) and in fact, is more expensive than those "European" brands, then you've got a car that is dead before it even hits the ground.

  • maybeamacy on 22/01/2022 - 02:30
    +11

    I've got an A5 with the 3.0 TDI - I liked the design, economy, performance (5.7L/100km, 600nm, 5.9s 0-100km) and can easily be tuned for even more oomph. Servicing costs a tad more expensive as I take it to get serviced at the specialists who have worked on similar engines before. A lot more expensive if you go to the dealer but I just order parts from overseas and it works out pretty well priced. Has 108k km on it at the moment, had a coolant leak about 6 months ago through the failure of a plastic part deep within the middle of the valley of the engine - had to rip apart most of it (following russian youtube guides) to change it myself - independents wanted $1000 labour to do it.

    Also have a Golf 110TSI - waiting for the DQ200 DSG in that to fail as it's a common fault but has the 5 year VW warranty on it so will just see what it's like as it ages. Planned on getting the new gen Corolla but got the Golf at a cheaper price and with the packages I wanted (safety) and tech was better than the Corolla. Only has about 18k km on it so far so will see how it goes.

    Also have an Accord Euro and RAV4 Hybrid in the household - these cars we just drive with no worries but the Euro's I have my OBD scanner ready for any potential problems and am always keeping an eye/ear out for anything that sounds off lol. Had a Lexus IS250 before as well which was another worry free car but the IS350 has an engine from 2005 and is quite thirsty so decided to give Audi a try even though I read all those Euro horror stories too (but I made sure to read up and get a model which wasn't bad eg. pre-2012 petrol engines with the piston/oil burning and transmission issues).

    IMO, Euro's are good if you can do the research and can work on them yourself otherwise go Japanese for worry/hassle free driving.

    • maxyzee on 22/01/2022 - 02:39
      +1

      Agree there. You knew what you were getting into and was prepared for it. Isn’t it interesting though the point you mentioned. If you want Euro, do your research before you go into it whereas with the Japanese no real worries.

    • mrgeckoz on 10/02/2022 - 08:56

      My MY13 MK7 103TSI with DQ200 is going well, done 110k on it so far. Never had any other problems. Loving the TSI+DSG combo!

  • MrThing on 22/01/2022 - 02:53
    +7

    some people love spending heaps and heaps of money on servicing and when parts break

  • bloom on 22/01/2022 - 06:32
    +18

    Some people love the thrill of going to the dealership workshop not knowing if it’s going to be a $1k or $5k service

    • kyle on 22/01/2022 - 10:00
      +1

      I think we've come a fair way from that now with fixed pricing. We get told the price upfront and it's up to us to authorise additional stuff if wanting them fixed at the same time.

  • Euphemistic on 22/01/2022 - 07:17
    -2

    I don’t understand the logic.

    Logic doesn’t often come into it.

    I can understand when buying an uber luxury or sports car that’s well over $100k, they bring a level of engineering, sophistication and style that the competition can’t necessarily match but when in comes to the mainstream normal every day cars I don’t get it. … snip … Because it’s just a mainstream car that’s more expensive, its not some exclusive, sophisticated, cool whatever.

    They hope there is trickle down tech from the top models and also hope their peers/neighbours can’t tell the difference between a base model and that fancy model. ‘I’ve got a BMW. Look, I’m wealthy/successful/better than you’

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