Aboriginal flag to fly permanently from Sydney Harbour Bridge by end of the year
I wonder how much it costs to put a pole on the Sydney Harbour Bridge. $25 million sounds outrageous. Can someone with knowledge on construction throw some light on this?
Really interested to know
It would look a bit stupid
Honestly.. $25m for a flag is a bit stupid imo.. For any flag
I think the premier should have elaborated on why it costs so much - people are explaining it better here
wouldn't that represent unity? sounds like a good idea to me.
Is it unity tho?
Ah yes, the famous Mobius Strip flag with only one side
Why not just take down the NSW flag and put it on the existing second pole.
or split it half-half!
Pfffft, I would have done it for $24 million…
Obviously some current NSW government minister has a cousin that owns a flag and flag pole company.
How much for cash?
(Already-old-joke-warning) Apparently Pork Barilaro Flags Inc won the contract.
Careful or he'll sue you
I guess it's a niche area and the industry is getting crunched right now.
Even then, $25 million is a piss take.
Maybe $4 million for fabrication and installation. (and that's still very outrageous.) 30-40m light pole towers are $100-$300k each, which i'm assuming would be somewhere in the ballpark for structural integrity (admittedly the size of the flag would require some serious reinforcement).
Unfortunately though the average public servant is there to get the job done and not question the quotes.
I've been in government long enough to see that the people that are signing off on these $25-$100 million quotes a lot of the time are glorified paper pushers with next to no subject knowledge. It's a serious oversight.
NGL i'm not surprised given the way that NSW likes to hand money out to the private industry.
Well given its a government contract, the contractors probably needs to build a new facility to make this very special flag pole, train their technicians with new state of the art equipment required to complete this installation and a long list of other bullshit requirement to justify their 25m quote.
All this in 6 months? Wish I could see the breakdown of this quotation to see what is there. Thanks
Dont forget the Yachts and their third condo
Thanks. Very informative
*to Liberal donors
niche is just like saying antique
i.e. something that no one really needs, can be just chucked away but…hey what the heck
Or a very specific area that few engineering companies would care to venture into, hence the piss take of a price.
But yeah, if the quote is coming back like this i'd definitely be considering the requirement for 3 flags.
Just take the NSW flag down, replace it with the aboriginal flag and poof you have equal representation of the Australian and Aboriginal flag
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/dominic-perrottet-s…
At a press conference, Mr Perrottet was asked how the government arrived at its $25 million price tag.
"I don't know. But it does, apparently," he said.
Well not even the premier knows so your guess is as good as any.
Looks like Perrottet is only interested in saying big figures on tv. At the end of the day it is not his money.
I do respect the absolute balls to confidently say I don't know rather than typical dodging and lying.
Still, does demonstrate the laziness of the bean counters to not brief him and just give him the dollar value.
Surely any sane human would question the crap out of it before publicising the blatant pork barrelling.
NSW quote review or tendering process is an absolute farce from high level projects like this right down to cheap things like supply of basic stationary. There is zero incentive to, or resources put towards seeking better outcomes for the state. Not only do public servants not care, they don’t have to. And the tendering procedures, whilst utterly useless, ARE cumbersome - meaning you really WANT to avoid the process, and taking high ball quotes from incumbent suppliers is often easier than signing up new vendors.
Having said that, I expect a quote to put up a massive, custom steel structure on another heritage listed structure in the middle of a harbour above the country’s busiest motorway… would naturally cost a few times more than many best guesses are going to be. 25 mil sounds high… but… it ain’t coming from Bunnings.
Maybe coming from UK personally signed by her majesty. Handling charges on such important item maybe expensive
So the Aboriginals are going to stump up 25 Million on a flag…oh wait?
I guess we'll be paying for the 'pride' flag on the other side too?
Not to worry, it's not like we have any more pressing issues that need funding right now is it?
According to Perrottet NO.
So… you didn't know that Aboriginal people have to pay taxes just like everyone else?
This is the most racist comment I've seen upvoted on OzBargain.
Not even close to racist, good point he makes, to me 2 flags is just divisive to all Australians. Oh and before you say anything else I'm an Australian of aboriginal decent I work pay my taxes but I first and foremost identify as Australian my skin colour doesn't change my opinion!
Their comments tend to be a bit on the conspiracy side/misinformed and uneducated unfortunately.
We're all Australian and paying tax as Australians or people living in Australia. Tax has nothing to do with it. $25 million!
But Aboriginals don't pay tax like everyone else. That is the point of the post. Aborinials are either exempt of get discounted tax. Not to mention welfare, etc. There is a reason why you always see the "Are you of Aboriginal or Torres Straight Island descent" question on just about every form.
Really? Can you share more o tax breaks or exemptions? Interested.
Huh? Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people do pay tax like many other Australians. That doesn't really have anything to do with self identification, that's a blatant strawman and it's clear by your mention of hurr durr welfare you're coming from a xenophobic, ignorant position with that. Baffling comment, not 100% surprised though.
well, to be fair they already paid the price of having to let us take their own land and destroy their culture.
It is ridiculous and outrageous as I still don't know how it adds up. Feed the poor and help the actual Human Aboriginals than spending this much on a flag.
Excellent point
Who owns & pays for maintainance of the bridge? If its the federal government then why is the state flag there?
Toll companies get to charge and profit
Government gets to maintain and construct
Tbh its a bit of a raw deal
State Liberal governments are good at making deals that screw over their state for decades.
Like selling the rights to toll the M4 for 40 years to that private company* for peanuts.
*That their friends just happen to have shares in
easy just take all flags off the bridge
This. Put all the money that would have gone into making this flag ($25m) and the yearly maintenance ($5m) into Aboriginal programs to actually help Aboriginals and their communities
It’s not a matter of not having money to support certain demographics. It’s an issue of wasting money on virtue signalling. It isn’t an either/or
Most people see through the shallowness of this.
It's just a hoax. When people realise how ridiculous that would be, all the other discriminatory policies will be reviewed also.
Didn’t think of that? I wonder if it goes the other way too - highlight this so everyone focuses on this and the rest gets away without notice. Then come back and say oops we missed a dot between 2 and 5. That would be hilarious
Watch the redneck bogans get drawn to this post like flies to shit
Are you calling yourself a redneck bogan? Actually idek what that is. Sounds American.
"White Lives Matter"
Poop smells extremely delicious to flies. This is because they feed on it. It also contains various substances like bacteria (dead and alive), fats, proteins, fiber cellulose, and minerals that are nutritious for flies. Poop also serves as a safe place for flies, like stable flies and house flies, to lay their eggs.
so it's quite derogatory to say that…it's actually of use for the flies…booogerman..
"White people are a repressed minority"
Cant they just stop flying the Union Jack and use that pole?
Queen wont mind.
Imagine what $25 million could have been used for in uplifting the conditions of aboriginal folks in NSW? Goto some of the missions west of Moree, The Pilliga and it’s so sad. Scholarships to improve their education, adult training… there is more domestic violence within the aboriginal community so money could have been re-allocated there. This is just virtual signalling. And Perrottet’s arrogance at laughing it off…. Mate these are taxpayers money. His days are numbered.
Unjustifiable amount of money.
Like the plebiscite for marriage equality (~100M), when they should just have done that.
Thankfully they didn't spend 100M asking if we should spend 25M to put the Aboriginal flag there.
Governments have so much (of our) money to waste…
People are clueless to what's involved in adding a 20 mtr pole to a massive steel bridge.
That whole structure will require looking at and could require beefing up.
The wind torque on a flag pole that size is massive.
The crane to hoist it into position will be massive. The way I see it , the company that quoted this install will be out of pocket by a wide margin. Perhaps they just wanted sponsorship plugs?
It's about time the First Nations people got a look in.
it's Labor party's time to make money, eh?
NSW Gov green lit it
I wonder what the $25million includes. ie just the installation of the pole or some spare flags and ongoing maintenance of the pole.
The Aboriginal flag absolutely needs to be up there, but I’d be ditching the NSW flag - seriously who cares about a state flag. I couldn’t even tell you what it looks like without an image search and I’m a proud NSWelshwoman.
That said if they need to keep all three and $25million is what it costs for a safe and permanent flag pole it does really need to be there.
Agree 100%… just piss off the state flag, nobody actually cares. No need to waste $25 million, can be much better spent elsewhere.
Well if New Zealand Labour is a guide, chances are 2/3 of the 25 millions were spent on consultants.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/more-than-two-thirds-of-auckla…
A pointless investment that would even bring any step closer to forgiveness.
As far as I know, Australia is the only country in the Anglosphere that does not have a treaty with the original people.
Flag seems half arse
$25 million is absolutely ridiculous.
But if that actually is the cost, the concept must be scrapped immediately.
Someone is doing very well indeed out of this.
Swap out the NSW flag for aboriginal flag, put the $25m towards projects that actually help aboriginal communities 🤷🏻♂️
i'm not saying i support this idea or the implementation or agree with the costing (haven't seen the documents obv) but it is worth having a proper think about vs armchair handymen saying that it shouldn't cost more than $100k. $25m sounds like a lot for putting a flag up, but there's definitely more to it than that:
as someone said elsewhere in this thread, a tall light pole might cost a few hundred k. so that's our 'baseline' for 'tall thing that must stay up'. let's add factors and y'all tell me to stop when you reckon $25m has come into play.
This is the reply no one wanted to give cause they cbf.
Oh, I totally agree it'll be expensive - 100k is definitely too low - but $25 million seems ridiculously excessive? $5-10m I'd understand with all your good points
Surely, at the cost, it's just not worth it to add an additional flag - why not just replace the NSW flag with the Aboriginal flag (which imo is a billion times more important)
I recommend a 2nd and 3rd quotes…
serviceseeking.com.au
I'm still waiting to tell you to stop.. I don't reckon $25m has come into play just yet.. Keep them coming.
Also how does some of these points even a factor.. Lets say its installed on an indentical bridge.. however this time its on one of the least important rail links in Sydney, and least important road.. would it cost less?? This is equivalent to brand taxing.. Its more expensive because its important?? Does that come itemised?
Lets say its installed on an indentical bridge.. however this time its on one of the least important rail links in Sydney, and least important road.. would it cost less??
Probably! less important = less risk = less cost - whether through necessary mitigations for those risks or through insurance.
i'm not gonna try to put dollar figures next to things that are intangible, but you can trust me (as a consultant that writes reports for big infra projects), there are number crunchers who can and do every single day.
think about it - install wire over local dirt road. what's the approvals process? what level of license does the installer need? what happens if something goes wrong and the road is impassable for a period of time - who suffers and who covers their costs? compare the same for the bridge scenario.
the more complicated the site, the higher the cost. the more stakeholders, the higher the cost. the more risk, the higher the cost.
It's the NSW liberal government, is anyone surprised? By the time ICAC is done they'll be only left with the work experience kid
Should be united under one flag. Stop promoting division and tell those who are to go away.
It’s all on purpose
I’ll happily be united under just the aboriginal flag but I highly doubt many aboriginal folks would be happy being united under just the aus flag with the Union Jack.
How would you like it if you were told to get over it and unite as one under the flag of a nation that invaded and genocided your people?
They're making one comment only- 'under one flag'. Don't try and put words in someone else's mouth.
They’re commenting regarding raising the aboriginal flag as “divisive”.
It’s really not putting words in their mouth to assume they want us to unite under the existing flag, not the one they don’t want to be raised.
LOL!.. Glad I know where my tax dollars are going…
At the end a number or ppl will come out with invaluable experience of Attaching a flag to a pole. And the next time you want to put up a flag on your house a tradie will charge you 1mill for it.
This is fine but giving workers a few extra dollars will bring about the end of times.
Someone's retirement plan put to the test .
As long as they make it so that the front doesn't fall off…
They can just tow it beyond the environment
I thought the Aboriginal flag has been on the Habor Bridge since forever?
I've had half my family wiped out by "genocide" We have learnt lessons (both as perpetrator and victim) and moved on. Many haven't and it shows. We need to move on from this and build a stronger society in order to do so not virtue signal and go the symbolic route. We can take the good with the bad like any productive person and society has done throughout history. The path we are on right now will lead to more division and issues. It's incredibly concerning. It builds individuals and groups, it does not integrate and it makes us weaker and more susceptible as a nation who is about to face difficult and trying times.
There is no denying that integration and unification towards societies strengths is the way to go. Without that, things will never get better for anyone and we will all be a bunch of tribes. Quite frankly if you do not support that goal then I'm not sure what your intentions are.
These issues have been used to take advantage of peoples feelings of morality to promote political influence. It is stark and plain to see. Put your feelings aside for a moment and look at it rationally. What will really make a positive difference?
$25 mil on a flag on a national monument is a complete waste of time. the rhetoric needs to change for real "change" to happen. Perhaps there is an argument for a new flag? i don't know. There needs to be a cultural shift and a ladder to build up youth with positive role models and put the past behind us and move on. Don't let your innocent children carry the same burdens as you
I agree.
Can I ask you though, before any public speeches the trend seems to be acknowledging the original owners of the land, what is your opinion on this?
IMO I don't find much substance in it and more so a pat on the back than anything.
Just like it costs 500k to fix the pothole in our area….. government spending brrrrrrrrrrr
they need a consulting firm to fix the pothole..durrh.
I heard its the mayors brother in law….
a flag at the bridge $5000 at very max. rest goes to these pollies pork barreling. move on.
talk about next multi billion dollars circular quay wharf upgrade to reuniting the world project. same. move on.
whatever infrastructure project… blah blah blah~
just a flag at the bridge is so obvious than other ones
lol obviously $25m is a lot of money, but even if they chucked the flag at the bridge rather than on it, it would still be a hell of a lot more than $5,000.
A heritage study alone would cost in the tens of thousands.
Getting Aboriginal elders on site if required is a minimum $10k cost on a tiny site.
Surely there's more pressing matters which need funding than this.
Obvious they've forgotten to put in the promo code.
"BOGUS"
Why not just have a 2-sided flag?