Out of Control 3 Year Old

archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 15:06
Last edited 21/08/2023 - 15:27 by 1 other user

A friend(not an Aussie) has a 3 year old daughter. We are very close and are like family.
He has been telling me that "terrible twos" is nothing compared to what she behaves now.
I always thought he was joking. Spent the last week with the family on a vacation/get together.
And…. the kid seems straight out of The Exorcist.
Hits 24x7 - you will be sitting with her and BAM punches the eye socket for no reason.
The mother had a fractured arm, hits the arm for her amusement instead of feeling any empathy.
Strangely doesn't hit the father but does everyone including me.
And then at times she will be the most caring child I have ever seen.
She also doesn't sleep enough, not tht she will throw tantrums all the time, she will just stay up in bed quietly but not close her eyes.
Pointing that out as that was the only thing the parents and me believe is the cause for her erratic behaviour.

Irony is I did meet her last year and she was the sweetest child. The parents are great too, so patient that it scares me. Strict when it is needed to.
Never raise their voice or threaten the child.

I feel a sense of hopelessness for them, as they couldn't put her in daycare as she wouldnt eat - not misbehave.
And are just hoping she can get through pre-school without any incident.

I have countless friends preach them do this that, even I thought I will show them a trick or two but am just speechless.
I have seen them try and get help as well but the latest paediatrician they saw said there is nothing mentally wrong with her and is just a phase.
What scared me was she grabbed a fork on the table when we were distracted and started poking the mother non stop who was helpless to defend herself due to the fractured hand.

And all those tiktoks who say "tell them to speak their feelings" and she says I am sorry and keeps hitting.

Only thing I did after spending a week with them is watch - We need to talk about Kevin. The kid isn't far off.

Any advice on what can be done?

Toys & Kids

Comments

  • Muzeeb on 21/08/2023 - 15:09
    +33

    What sort of discipline or consequences are the parents giving?

    Sounds like they are a bit soft in that department.

    Never raise their voice or threaten the child.

    Here's the problem. Praise and discipline sound the same to the 3yo. Good in theory, not in reality.

    • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 15:15
      -5

      Educate her every single time that it is wrong. When out of control they would pick her up and take her into a room with them and tell her no party (which she calls every social dinner). Or tell her that they will go away - and I did play along and actually packed my bags.
      Then she jumped in my arms and said sorry. We were helpless.

      Would be great to hear what you think should be done, maybe they/we are missing something.

      • Muzeeb on 21/08/2023 - 15:17
        +80

        and I did play along and actually packed my bags.

        You need to follow through with the consequences. You should have left after packing your bags.

        and tell her no party

        Yet you had the party (social dinner).

        Don't make threats or consequences if you don't follow through. That is my advice.

        Then she jumped in my arms and said sorry. We were helpless.

        This is where you would say, thanks for apologising and I accept your apology, but the party is not happening tonight still.

        What you did confirms to her that a quick, meaningless apology and puppy eyes wins every time.

        Source: I'm not a perfect parent by any means and made plenty of mistakes.

        • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:07

          I do agree, the parents told me the same thing when I said "we will leave" that I cant say and not follow through.
          To add detail, we did eat separately if they ever said "no tea parties" and when I said we will leave we did pack our bags and it was like a 3 hour ordeal. The child cried for 2 hours straight if i recall and i genuinely couldnt take anymore. She grabbed my partner's leg at one time.

          But yeah I posted here just to get these thoughts exactly.

          • Scrooge McDuck on 21/08/2023 - 23:49
            +17

            @archieduh: Don't let the child win, ever.

            As soon as she misbehaves, lock her in a room with no toys. Explain why she's there and what she will need to do to come out after a significant time. Ignore her protests and don't pander.

            On the other hand, reward her for good behaviour.

            The consequences need to be immediate, significant and consistent so that she connects them with her behaviour.

            • WhyAmICommenting on 22/08/2023 - 06:48
              +4

              @Scrooge McDuck: This sounds like how the US military find their most elite soldiers in the movies.

            • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 03:07

              @Scrooge McDuck:

              As soon as she misbehaves, lock her in a room with no toys.

              Easy there Satan. That's how you get trauma.

              Most kids crave, love, affection, friends/playmates, approval.

              Usually it's enough to send them to their room, to effectively exile them for a little while, sure, they might go in upset, and they might start to 'self soothe' enough that they redirect to toys instead of 'I want to come out' pretty quickly, often enough. I guess you gotta find that sweet spot. And explain it to them when they do let them join back in.

          • Chong on 22/08/2023 - 13:33
            +4

            @archieduh: so now she knows she can win after 2 hours, the adults give up before her… She probably does what she does to get attention or reaction…

            at that age, acknowledge their behaviour but let them calm down before engaging… before 4 its really more like training dogs, if the response is acceptable to them they will keep doing it… just deny accesses to privileges to extended periods… they dont have to understand why right in the moment, can be left to after…

            • Papa Huggies on 23/08/2023 - 16:49
              +1

              @Chong: Not sure if it's cruel, but one thing I did at home babysitting my younger brother back in the day was say "if you'll cry I'll cry too" and just yell over the top of him.

              Probably helped develop my singing voice really cos I'm not particularly articulate but I can belt like no tomorrow.

              • Scrooge McDuck on 23/08/2023 - 17:44
                +4

                @Papa Huggies: That's not cruel! The most cruel thing would be to equip them for a life of misery by spoiling them.

                A similar tactic is to hold a mirror up to them whilst they have a tantrum.

          • frewer on 22/08/2023 - 18:39

            @archieduh: I used some from this channel, it works wonder for me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TinTTgCGArY

          • belongsinforums on 22/08/2023 - 18:45
            +6

            @archieduh: We tried nothing and we're all out of ideas

          • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 04:08

            @archieduh:

            • You go over for dinnner.
            • Bad day, over tired, over stimulated by having visitors (probably why we should avoid saying 'party' when it's not) acting out that day, whatever, but they start acting up.

            It usually a good idea to keep an ear out for how they discipline in the household, so you can basically do the same with the same wording, and there's reinforced consistency. "I saw you do that. That was naughty. Say sorry please".

            we will leave we did pack our bags and it was like a 3 hour ordeal.

            Wrong. It was a 10 minute ordeal because the parent/s should have not have left them there crying and clinging 're-triggering' themselves. The first step is not you leaving, it's them going in an appropriate time out to their room - being taken there if necessary. Then when they have calmed down, being talked with, and invited back in if they are going to behave.

            Every situation is different, especially depending on age. If they're still crying after 2-5 minutes. Maybe parent needs to go in there and prompt them how they misbehaved (reinforce, and redirect) and that's why they're in time out. The kid might stop crying because they are there and are listening to them, and they can invite them back. Others, the child is expected to have calmed down and stopped crying for two minutes before they can come out (this says, they are coming back, this is not forever, but i need this from you, and has them sit with the situation and what put them there for a few minutes). The parent might need to sit in the room, or with them quietly, until they have calmed down and are ready to come out. (Saying I'm here, you haven't not been banished forever, after calming down, comes time out ending and going back) Many different ways.

            If it looks like maybe they're genuinely cranky and it's gonna be a long night, or they're still crying after a point, or they come out of that room and act up again, you leave. "I told you if you were going to be naughty/cranky, they would need to go home. They didn't come to visit cranky/naughty child. Now are you going to say bye bye to them or are you going to have quiet time in your room?" (you are leaving, it's happening, redirect them with the choice to behave a little, or be a little more naughty and get more time out. You still leave).

            Kid clings to your leg? You can soothe and redirect up to a point. "child, I'm happy to come visit you again when you are being good/not cranky. But you are making me cross now. You need to calm down and let go sweetheart. How about maybe (true or not) i visit Saturday? Use your words. Should i visit Saturday? yes?" At that point if one of the parents hasn't cut you off earlier to be more firm, and the kids still not backing down, they should now take over 'No. You are being so naughty and you are going in time out/quiet time/bed early'. And pick them up and physically remove them. Nobody said parenting was easy.

      • kekw on 21/08/2023 - 15:19
        +9

        oh if that is what you call discipline then you should see what me mum can do.

        • Muzeeb on 21/08/2023 - 15:24
          +4

          Is that you bro? You never told me you were on ozbargain.

          • kekw on 21/08/2023 - 15:28
            +12

            @Muzeeb: oh ya mum did the 360 fly kick follow by a hadouken too?

            • Muzeeb on 21/08/2023 - 15:31
              +1

              @kekw: Only after she had a few Xans

        • Daabido on 22/08/2023 - 17:13
          +7

          I'm sorry she beat the living grammar out of you.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 21/08/2023 - 15:57
        +24

        Or tell her that they will go away - and I did play along and actually packed my bags.
        Then she jumped in my arms and said sorry. We were helpless.

        LOL this just teaches the kid that they can push the boundaries until breaking point and stop, and sometimes even get their own way if they just apologise enough.

        To be honest that sounds like emotional manipulation. Coming from a 3 year old, that is worrying, anyway, off to a specialist, don't let us random people diagnose them.

        • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:08
          -2

          Yeah this was like a 3 hour ordeal, i didnt explain. we packed and were in our rooms and she would just be outside our room wailing. if we came out to use the restroom she would grab our legs. She was well behaved that night but the next morning it was back to square one.

      • Ughhh on 21/08/2023 - 18:16
        +4

        When out of control they would pick her up and take her into a room with them and tell her no party (which she calls every social dinner). Or tell her that they will go away - and I did play along and actually packed my bags.

        Sounds like it hasn't been explained why it's wrong?

        • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:12
          -1

          No No they do, I don't want to sound like I am dismissing comments, but the parents and all friends and family did it.
          Honestly at a point I was just irritated and wanted the trip to end. The constant - "you cant do this - it hurts, its bad manners, no one is doing it to you, you need to tell us what us wrong so we can help like when you.. etc etc"

          • Papa Huggies on 23/08/2023 - 16:50
            +1

            @archieduh: Not gonna say corporal punishment is warranted

            But it might be effective in measured doses

          • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 04:48

            @archieduh: The average tips and tricks of parenting works because it works….for most children. Are you….sure - and i suppose you can't be - that they are disciplining consistently in the same way when it's just them?

            If we assume they are doing everything 'right' more or less, and the child still has certain behaviors, reactions, then that might need to be discussed with a paediatrician, maybe 'touch base' with a child psychologist. 'This is going on, what am i doing wrong? Is it normal? Will they grow out of it?'
            A clingy child that perhaps wants and is begging for attention - even if it's what they get from doing something bad?

            A clingy child that wants you there - but doesn't know how to or should i say hasn't been taught how to appropriately express it, but misbehaves and seemingly desperate for attention - even if it's what they get for their negative behaviour? Do they get love, affection, attention, interaction from people other then their parents regularly? Are they isolated? DO they interact with other regularly?

            A long stay, someone visiting, staying overnight. That can be quite disruptive to their routine - if they have one. Which they should. Sometimes these changes - even welcome ones - can have them manifesting odd behaviours. You have routine and discipline, and suddenly grandma is and grandpa are visiting for 2 weeks. Spoiling you every day while mum is seen less because she's settling the new baby. Suddenly half the time, your grandparents are feeding you, comforting when you fall, saying, not right now, mummys with the baby, shall we watch a movie? It's like if someone teleported me to an Earth like foreign planet. It affects the psyche, it's actually a very big change.

            The kid sobbing in the front of your door so you won't leave? I worry you are seeing these people on their best 'parenting' behavior when you visit. Possibly maybe at their most loving and attentive. That, and there's possible some manifesting of insecurity here in the child. This really needs a child psychologists involvement, now, not latter.

      • Oz em on 21/08/2023 - 20:45
        +2

        They will go away? Very frightening for a 3 year old

        • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:13
          -1

          Sorry I didnt get it?

          • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 05:08

            @archieduh: Babies, children all on some level understand - innately - they need and want the tall versions of themselves (adults) to live.

            Tell a young 3 year old, you've been naughty i'm going away now? Their brains can't quite conceptualize that you are NOT going away and never coming back again. What is 'away'? It isn't here and i am here. It can be what feels like a complete rejection. You ever leave the house for 5 minutes, and the dog - with little object permanence and sense of time - feels like they haven't seen you forever and is super happy to you actually came back? You might not, they are a dog, they don't know. Reverse that, and imagine a child instead. A child with only a simple grasp of who in their life is 'permanent' and little true sense of time, is told you are going away. They can't really conceptualize that they are not quite losing this close, 'alternate care giver' forever, and perhaps, at that age. While you gone you are just….gone. If you come back again? Great! You exist in the world again!

      • marcozmitch on 23/08/2023 - 21:57

        I have read all 3 pages of advice and can't help, but remember Patsy's advice to Eddie: "Get me a knitting needle"…

    • CalmLemons on 21/08/2023 - 23:12
      +12

      DO NOT LET YOUR CHILD DO WHAT YOU DO NOT LIKE.

      Lack of discipline + genes. Kid will grow out of it, but they could be waiting 10 years.

      • nobro25 on 23/08/2023 - 11:27
        +3

        Yea.. but that's wishful thinking. Growing out of it depends on experience. If they're sheltered and bear zero consequences for their actions they'll never change.

        Best thing about kids I realise is actually instead of treating them like kids. Treat them like adults. Treat them like your employees. They turn to grow up better. But obviously you tinker with it. It's best to teach them critical thinking so when they're out in the real world all by themselves they'll know what yo do.

        Sure, you gonna argue .. but they're only 3 years old. Based on the inverse learning curve, the longer a person develops a habit, it'll take that same amount of time to get rid of that said habit. Always start early, but most importantly communication. Most parents discipline their children without telling them why and just say shut up and listen. Your kids would just grow up resenting you. That's what lacking parenthood is.

    • GrueHunter on 22/08/2023 - 22:14
      -6

      Bunch of amateur armchair psychologists in this post, and I'm guessing sh*thouse parents to boot.

      "Threaten the child. Actually abandon them to make a point. Punishment and reward are the key despite countless studies showing both are at best ineffective, and at worst harmful. A three year old will definitely be able to process this and modulate their own behaviour towards others despite probably not having a theory of mind. Like, at all."

      Slow clap, geniuses. No, really, well done.

      • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2023 - 13:36
        +3

        Bunch of amateur armchair psychologists

        Quick to criticise but I see no better suggestions in this feel good rant of yours Mr. 'professional' psychologist parent of the year.

      • nobro25 on 23/08/2023 - 14:56

        Firstly, you may have a point. But in order to have a point you must come up with something yourself to "add value". All you're doing is pointing out something you disagree on an critise on it. Not to mention you use the word "armchair psychologist". A psychologist will most definitely have more insight that you at this point in time.

        After all this analysis, here's something to add value to your life. Maybe, push towards promoting positivity in other people and concepts instead of sitting there criticising everyone like an old fart. Sure you can sit swearing at people and responding in troll-like comments.

        One tip for parents, instead of telling kids what "not" to do. Tell them what they "should do". Eg. It's always don't take drugs, don't speed, don't steal. But they're never taught what should be done in life. They let them figure it out, which is 50/50. They can lead a bad life or a good life.

        I've seen parents makes excuses as well. Well they won't listen to me.. it's too difficult etc. Bottom line is you gotta try, at least make an effort. If it doesn't work the 100th time you gotta do it 1000 times or more.

        It's the same with therapy. You don't just go see the psychiatrist and everything magically goes away. They do an analysis, you may have to take medication. But in the end you have homework and you have to follow through, if you don't and are in it half heartly, the therapy won't work and you're back to square one being pissed off at the system.

      • Hearthstone on 23/08/2023 - 16:22

        back in the day I used to get caned for misbehave, I learn real fast not to get out of line cos that shit hurts

        but I dont caned my kids I just disciplined them until I wins, you want to chuck a tantrum in the shop, go ahead, I just sit there
        watch them cry, scream as much as they want when you are finished then we go, sometimes it takes 30 minutes, sometimes longer but
        after a few attempted and they know what they are in for, no more tantrum

        • dbmitch on 23/08/2023 - 17:28
          +1

          You essentially showed them you can outlast their ability to be stubborn, nice.

    • TiredKitty78 on 24/08/2023 - 18:55

      Here's an unfortunate truth. We need fear. Our logical 'person' brains say no no talk it out, but there's a side of us from little children to adults, that if we are left unchecked, if we are not given things to fear, we'll fook up ourselves, and everyone around us.
      Sns, my sister's a great parent. Sometimes - though rarely - a kid gets a smack. Goes to their bed 'hungry'. Get told off and 'yelled' at. Kids are not born with 'empathy'. Kids learn empathy. Kids from a young age want to keep their caretakers happy so they won't be left to die. If the kid knows they won't be left to die, abandoned, neglected - even only subconsciously animalisitically aware from that place they were before they were alive - they have no reason to form empathy, obey, think before they do. And it gets to a point where they possibly cannot because their brain is so used to doing what they want, getting what they want, that if that stops, you are the problem.

      Smack your kids on occasion if they deserve it y'all. (terms and conditions apply)
      My sister used to bite my brother when she was younger as a 'fook off' method. You know what fixed that? My mother giving her a bite and saying 'see, hurts doesn't it?'. Never did it again. And i have to assume learnt from fear what we might call empathy. Don't do it to others, you didn't like it being done to you. Sometimes, words are not enough. Life smacks us all. Kids bit by bit need to learn sometimes it happens, and they (terms and conditions apply) deserved it. Though there should often be a reasonable 'why' given.

  • AustriaBargain on 21/08/2023 - 15:16
    -8

    Sounds like she has a future in the Liberal Party, assuming they will accept female party leaders in 30 years time.

    • Bman17 on 21/08/2023 - 15:22
      +1

      confirm this by giving her a boat in the gift and see how she reacts.

    • CrowReally on 21/08/2023 - 15:37
      +1

      Sounds like she has a future in the Liberal Party, assuming they will accept female party leaders in 30 years time

      Lesse.. it's currently the 1950s so plus thirty, we're talking 1980s or so, I guess. Sure, female conservative leaders (Margaret Thatcher etc) would seem viable.

      Wheel out John Howard for his blessing at that stage and it's a lock

      • Chandler on 23/08/2023 - 09:32
        +1

        You forgot the part that the party needs to progress. It's not that they're currently in the 1950s, it's that they're stuck there…

    • Poor Ass on 22/08/2023 - 11:29
      +2

      so much beef with the Liberals

      as if any other political parties are any better

      • Meconium on 23/08/2023 - 00:24
        +2

        False equivalence

    • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2023 - 13:45
      +1

      Sounds like she has a future in the Liberal Party

      Lol, no. She'd qualify for the Liberal party if she punched her dad in the nuts instead of apologising. Libs have never apologised or even faked an apology. Scotty from marketing doubled down and spit on victims faces by playing the Ukulele on TV towards the end of his term instead of apologising or showing any remorse for fking off to Hawaii and not taking enough action while the country was burning.

  • HerpinDerp on 21/08/2023 - 15:18
    +33

    Specialist help could be a start?
    There's quite a few red flags and a few typical child behaviours listed.

    • Gunnar on 21/08/2023 - 16:06
      +11

      This! A child psych is where I'd be starting.

      There are a million questions that needs to be asked but there are some MASSIVE red flags in the description posted above. OP I query what the child is exposed to that you don't know about for them to present that way.

      Most concerning in this is how the child's behaviour changes toward Mum and Dad when she engages with them. Not eating at day care (as against misbehaving) is another interesting presentation to have.

      I'd also want to see what the child's sensory processing is like (although I'd say the paediatrician would have assessed this)

      • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 18:34

        Yes obviously this is what is the topic, the child's regular paediatrician has said to wait.

        In terms of the parent she is far far more attached to the mother. Says jokes she is her sister - and she knows she is making a joke and enjoys when we all laugh at it.

        With the dad she is just.. disinterested and if I can be honest, he is my friend, but isn't really attached to kids. Always tells me he loves her and has her photo as the phone wallpaper, but he seems to say it more than doing it. Like she wanted to paint dinosaurs and the dad couldn't bother to Google and said lets draw a snowman. Silly example but that's whats coming to my head. That both the daughter and dad don't seem that attached.

        The grandma jokes she hits only she considers close.

        In the playground she is not aggressive to any other kids.

        • Gunnar on 21/08/2023 - 23:09
          +6

          Sadly This presentation is not inconsistent with what I’m thinking may be going on.

          I really don’t want to be right though :-(

          Have a read of this and see how much of it may or may not be relevant with your experiences on how the child is presenting. It may not be the overt things that you need to be thinking about. If it is contact one of the resources outlined in there:
          https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/tra…

          • whyareyouthisway on 22/08/2023 - 12:10
            +6

            @Gunnar: I have to agree, I was scared to comment because no one else was picking it up, but she's hitting the ones she is perceived to love but won't hit her father, plus hitting her mother when her mother had an injured arm? The family claims everything's all good and looks fine to outside observers. Just that alone gives me chills, I'd be willing to place bets that emotional and physical abuse is absolutely happening behind closed doors. I cant imagine any other reason why a 3 year old would get the idea that it's okay to hit the ones they love yet won't hit dad.

            • juki on 22/08/2023 - 21:08

              @whyareyouthisway: yeah i'd investigate domestic abuse…good pick up on all the clues (i only got the hit mum not dad + not involved dad clue)

            • Gunnar on 23/08/2023 - 10:24

              @whyareyouthisway: It’s a sensitive topic and possibly may be confronting for the OP which is why I’ve refrained from explicitly commenting on what I suspect may be going on

              It’s a hard discussion to have in person, nevermind providing advice in an online forum where so much can get lost in translation. Plus I’d have to get the OP to put in a lot of details they may not know or would need to explore

              Like I implied earlier though, I would be much happier being wrong with what I’m suspecting

            • glitchmstr on 23/08/2023 - 19:11

              @whyareyouthisway: I seriously hope you stretched before doing that reach. She doesn't hit her father therefore he is abusing her? You literally know nothing about this family, don't just start throwing out serious allegations at the drop of a hat.

              This is what's wrong with modern internet culture, someone always has to be a victim.

              • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 05:25

                @glitchmstr: Even….the 3 year who cannot express she is 'the victim' thus needs people trained to recognise where this disordered behaviour is coming from?

                I was terrible in another comment i went straight to assuming the kid might be bad - or at least need to be assessed. But then again, i didn't have any info about Dad

      • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:14
        -1

        Thanks @Gunnar

      • zoob on 22/08/2023 - 08:27
        +17

        I hope op doesn't read your advice. As a psychiatrist I can say that none of those diagnoses are appropriate for a 3 year old. A brain scan is unlikely to show anything useful unless there are also neurological signs or symptoms. And the idea that people can predict future psychopathy (which is actually really uncommon in the general population) in a 2 year old is laughable.

        • one man clan on 22/08/2023 - 09:29
          +2

          I actually laughed at that comment.

          @benoffie would probably diagnose every 2-4 yo as a psychopath.

        • Benoffie on 22/08/2023 - 17:23

          The fact you're a psychiatrist and discounting the known lack of brain activity related to empathy in those people is concerning.

          Easy to label the kid as ADHD or Autistic and medicate them than consider there may be something else at play.

          Having grown up with a diagnosed psychopath, it was obvious from as early as 18 months but professionals were dismissive and blamed parents.

          It took 13 years, several assaults and attempted murder with police intervention to get 1 psychiatrist to finally wake up.

          By all means, down vote. But feel free to com back in 20 yrs and tell me how it's played out without appropriate intervention.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2023 - 17:15
            +2

            @Benoffie:

            Having grown up with a diagnosed psychopath

            Your single experience, although unfortunate, doesn't auto-magically make you a professional capable of diagnosing others, nor does it mean you know more than an actual trained professional. You DEFINITELY aren't in any position to question if someone would be safe under their care… over an ozbargain post that too. Settle down.

          • johnno07 on 23/08/2023 - 17:44

            @Benoffie:

            Having grown up with a diagnosed psychopath, it was obvious from as early as 18 months

            Word of the day for you is:

            hindsight

            noun
            understanding of a situation or event only after it has happened or developed.

      • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 05:25

        I can tell you that the traits can be spotted in sub 2 year olds.

        Yup, as the other guy said, it's easy in hindsight. But, sometimes they do something and it stays with you, But as the psychologist said, it is likely very rare. And something to never label a 2 year old.
        But people don't believe until they're in it.

    • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:14
      -1

      Thanks @HerpinDerp

    • caitsith01 on 23/08/2023 - 23:27

      I'd certainly be exploring ASD, sensory processing, ADHD.

  • CodeXD on 21/08/2023 - 15:29
    +45

    "We've Tried Nothing and We're All Out of Ideas!"

    • CodeXD on 21/08/2023 - 19:53
      +3

      @archieduh it's a Simpsons quote, no need to go on a rampage.

      • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 21:12
        +8

        @CodeXD I apologise sincerely. Really sorry.
        Didnt know it was a quote and felt we were being judged.

    • Hangryuman on 22/08/2023 - 14:32

      the quote I liked was "We Tried Nothing and Nothing Worked !"

  • CrispyChrispy on 21/08/2023 - 15:30
    +31

    Take her phone away?

    Oh wait, wrong thread

    • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 18:27
      -1

      Doesn't have a phone. Gets very limited screen time. Parents don't have any subscription to limit screen habits in the house.

      • CrispyChrispy on 21/08/2023 - 19:05
        +4

        Sorry, wasn't meant to be a serious comment, was making reference to this thread from earlier today

        Doesn't have a phone. Gets very limited screen time

        As it should be for a 3 year old!

        • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 21:01

          I know some parents have a dedicated "Cocomelon" phone or tablet that is taken out at each restaurant sitting or road trip.
          This is what I meant, it's not the case here.

    • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 06:05

      Attendance officers making sure they get to the classroom, anxiety and shakes in class, 'psych, paediatrician, counsellor' - the works, kids still not doing what i command, a home that would "sew the seeds of rebellion and anxiety". Relatives who tell the kid things, contacting them on the phone, critiscising us to the kid, who will probably repeat what those others in the ahem 'extended' family have said about us - her parent/s, who he'd like to punch. It's her link to the outside world - her phone - that's the problem. If i remove it and then monitor who says what to her and what she says to them, then she'll learn to obey. Psych says she has anxiety and self-harms, something like that, all the kids are doing it post-covid. Depression and ADHD? No. Addiction to devil phone. Did i mention she does not go to school and also doesn't want to play normal on weekends and go places in the car? "Daughter knows this is an issue and source of constant conflict - and the huge impact on her life. I can see daughter regurgitating crap extended family members say to her behind backs to me but will remain calm and stay on topic". Aka, i'll get what i want even if i have to mess with her phone secretly when she's asleep.
      Did i mention "significant childhood trauma" and diagnosed "general anxiety disorder". The phone, it all started with the phone.

      To be fair though, they might just be genuinely good people going through it.
      Are they sick and self isolating, or are they being isolated?

  • FoxJump on 21/08/2023 - 15:31
    +4

    yikes

    raise my voice and threaten my twins. i also try to understand their feelings. they're not exclusive skills.

    sometimes i do one. sometimes i do the other.
    kids are well behaved mostly as a result

    • CrowReally on 21/08/2023 - 15:39

      Are they identical twins? If so you can probably save some time just by focussing on one.
      (I presume this is where evil twins come from)

  • geekcohen on 21/08/2023 - 15:37
    +1

    Two kid related threads in one day! Wow. The 1st thread

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 21/08/2023 - 15:41
    +2

    Far out I thought my two were bad… this is next level.

  • Ocker on 21/08/2023 - 15:43
    +6

    A taser may do the trick?

    • JohnWick1980 on 22/08/2023 - 15:44

      This comment had me! :)

  • geekcohen on 21/08/2023 - 15:43
    +13

    Strangely doesn't hit the father but does everyone including me.

    Why doesn't she? Maybe the father is actually doing something and she is "scared" of him. Knows not to push the boundaries. My daughter know when I am annoyed, angry and pissed off, so she knows not to push my buttons.

    She also doesn't sleep enough, not tht she will throw tantrums all the time, she will just stay up in bed quietly but not close her eyes.

    Well clearly she isn't being stimulated enough to be "tired".

    Never raise their voice or threaten the child.

    Maybe they don't do it in front of people? Fear of judgement?

    And all those tiktoks who say "tell them to speak their feelings"

    Honestly, its a load of bull. Kids don't understand things at times.

    I have seen them try and get help as well but the latest paediatrician they saw said there is nothing mentally wrong with her and is just a phase.

    The paediatrician is probably right, there is nothing wrong, it is a discipline thing. It sounds like there is no punishment and the parents don't care. The kid is doing what she wants to.

    Honestly, I could go on and on about this. But it's just as bad as the teen and phone thread.. It all comes down to the parents. No OzBargain community member is really going to be able to help and provide the golden answer, its because there isn't one.

    Thats my two cents.

    • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 18:37

      Trust me. She is stimulated enough.
      In one day we do painting, playground, dancing, some cartoons, and then running around.

      The mother says maybe due to Covid until the age of 2 she only saw 2 people. And now she just doesn't sleep when there is company. When all feared the opposite last year that she may be anti social.

      First one to rise up, last one to go to sleep.

      But thanks I am going back to teading your comment and advise again properly now.

      • Protractor on 21/08/2023 - 21:53
        +1

        "she may be anti social" ???

        Then she is either being socialised with other kids and adults in the real world or not.If the answer is not, then the parents need to be seeking help to be trained in parenting

        • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:20
          -1

          Sorry I didn't articulate it well. They were in lockdown like state for the first 2 years of the child's life.
          So they like many others I know that had kids during start of COVID, were anxious if the child will socialise when things get normal.
          That instead she socialises easily, we are not even family and she would video call us once a week.
          That is all what I was trying to say.

          That one of the grandparent feels because of COVID she probably got no reprimand from parents for hitting them once in a while and now its a habit.

    • juki on 22/08/2023 - 21:13
      +1

      I was going with domestic abuse, granted i am not a psychiatrist nor do i know these people and i am just imagining things

      someone above picked out all the clues and i think it sticks more than simply a lack of discipline or blaming the kid

      • kerr42 on 24/08/2023 - 08:47

        my first thought too. It’s ok to hit mum. Mum has a fractured arm. Red flags all over the place.

    • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 06:20
      +1

      Going off others thinking….

      Strangely doesn't hit the father but does everyone including me.

      Why doesn't she? Maybe the father is actually doing something and she is "scared" of him. Knows not to push the boundaries. My daughter know when I am annoyed, angry and pissed off, so she knows not to push my buttons. agreed, but not how you think

      She also doesn't sleep enough, not tht she will throw tantrums all the time, she will just stay up in bed quietly but not close her eyes. **perhaps because it is not *safe* in her mind to sleep. What happens when she sleeps? Keeping their eyes open? That's concerning**

      Well clearly she isn't being stimulated enough to be "tired". see above

      Never raise their voice or threaten the child. **maybe not to the kid....**

      Maybe they don't do it in front of people? Fear of judgement? Maybe because some one or someones are over compensating for what happens in private

      And all those tiktoks who say "tell them to speak their feelings"

      The paediatrician is probably right, there is nothing wrong, it is a discipline thing. It sounds like there is no punishment and the parents don't care. The kid is doing what she wants to. Or she's doing what she see's when OP and others aren't there. She'll hurt everyone but dad, then have a meltdown over them needing to stay. **They say they saw the paediatrician, they say, they told the paediatrician everything. I doubt it, this seems like red flag stuff. Does the mother ever have a chance to talk privately with the paediatrician….

      It was said elsewhere, an aloof father that says he loves his kid and has her picture as his wallpaper, but doesn't show it. A kid showing signs of trauma and abuse, and the kid silently refuses close their eyes at night (which btw, how does OP know? Does nobody read bed time stories to the kid until they fall asleep?), will act out, hurting people, but also show unusually strong attachment to them. Will hurt everyone But Dad.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 21/08/2023 - 15:55
    +13

    The mother had a fractured arm, hits the arm for her amusement instead of feeling any empathy.

    Strangely doesn't hit the father but does everyone including me.

    Red flags galore

    Kid needs to be taken to a specialist to rule out any behavioural issues.

    Everyone here can speculate until the cows come home (maybe she isn't hitting the father because he's abusing her, and lashes out at everyone else, plus a million other scenarios). Maybe the kid is a psychopath (literally), maybe they have a developmental disorder. Or maybe they're just an (profanity).

    And are just hoping she can get through pre-school without any incident.

    And what about school? Highschool? the rest of her life?

    • localhost on 21/08/2023 - 16:03

      The rest of her life - TikTok :)

    • Benoffie on 21/08/2023 - 20:15

      ^ 100% this @ coffee

    • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:22
      -1

      Exactly. Assures me that I think the same. This was no normal phase that can pass.
      I do have some relatives I heard has really tough kids to deal with until 5-7 years of age but eventually none of them needed any professional help.
      For some reason there is some reluctance I guess to aceept that there is anytyhing not normal with your child.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 22/08/2023 - 09:30
        +1

        For some reason there is some reluctance I guess to aceept that there is anytyhing not normal with your child.

        Makes sense. Most parents think their child is going to be the next person on the moon or the PM. Just look at how people act with their child. 99% of people I've spoken to with infants will say things like "s/he is performing two years ahead of everyone else, look at them go!".

        And then to be told there's something wrong with them, I guess people take it personally and a reflection on their abilities to raise a child, so don't want to hear it.

        I do have some relatives I heard has really tough kids to deal with until 5-7 years of age but eventually none of them needed any professional help.

        We are diagnosing people much more nowadays due to better tools and understanding, so these kids that were issues at that age may have been diagnosed like this child should be.

    • Hangryuman on 22/08/2023 - 14:36

      'Maybe the kid is a psychopath'

      yes - as I understand, psychopaths can enjoy hurting others, so this can be a clue. Early childhood tends to be associated with enjoying killing small animals, e.g. tearing the wings off insects, etc.

      the other suggestion - her father is abusing her, so she is lashing out at the others who love her, is something that could be investigated as well - how much time does he spend alone with her ?

  • Protractor on 21/08/2023 - 16:00
    +5

    This will destroy your friendship.
    Wean yourself away for your own sake

    No doubt the usual chorus will pluck some handy initial out of the air. ASHD etc. It's a fact some people were not menat to be parents, and many stuff crap in thier bodies while conceiving and carrying them. Then there's the next generation back and how well they were as parents.
    You don't need to fix this. Slip away in the night.

    • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 18:39

      THIS.

      Its not my family. But I can't stop thinking about.
      I felt I was in a movie.
      I do take some confidence reading comments that they do need to talk to a specialist.

    • archieduh on 21/08/2023 - 22:23
      -1

      I think this is what I wil screenshot and set as my wallpaper. thanks

  • CurlCurl on 21/08/2023 - 16:16

    Straight Jacket.

  • Brian McGee on 21/08/2023 - 16:28
    +8

    It's called being a threenager.

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