Workplace Cancelling Work from Home Completely

vv285 on 22/08/2023 - 11:56

So my workplace canceled WFH benefits completely and has asked people to come to work 5 days a week at the notice of a week a month ago.

Before joining the HR touted they offer 'great' flexibility and at max we will be asked to work 3 days from the office which now they completely reneged on. Most employees joined them a year ago based on such promises and now they've completely gone back on their promise.

This sudden change of rule might also be because the company is not doing well. Their share price has well below half and they might be looking to offload people without trying to lay them off. Not only that people with genuine work-from-home requests like people whose kids are registered in NDIS etc are being rejected requests officially and are being asked to take holidays or come to the office after taking care of their arrangements and working late etc.

Some of us work in IT and we really don't need to be in the workplace since its been proven over the last 3 years all over the world and they still insist that we have to be working from the office. Some people with no excuses do work from home though which angers most employees since there is a clear double standard between someone new and old employees.

Is this fair? Can something be done about this?

Education & Work

Comments

  • Bargainitis on 22/08/2023 - 12:01
    +136

    Unless your contract stipulates the WFH arrangement, you are at the mercy of your company's change in decision.

    FWIW, the world is pretty uncertain atm, being unemployed now or in the near future isn't something that I would want.

      • TimmyTims on 23/08/2023 - 13:26
        +64

        Not in this case. OP joined based on HR offer of flexibility and max 3 days in the office a week.
        In this case, OP is paid to work in the office max 3 days a week and the rest from elsewhere.

        If you are paid just to go to work, that must be a very unfulfilling job for you. I'm paid for 40 hours of productivity a week. I don't get paid to go to work

        • Bargainitis on 23/08/2023 - 14:26
          +7

          The reality is alot of companies are slowly realising that WFH is not efficient enough. You hear plenty of stories of people taking the piss on this arrangement.

          Some roles WFH works, other roles not so much. If a company has realised that paying you for 40 hours a week WFH isn't getting the productivity that it would get if you were working 40 hours in the office, then their strategy will change. My money is on that outcome for OP's company. Its not working for their bottom line.

          As I said earlier, HR / JD will tell you what the arrangements are at that point in time and its subject to change. If OP doesn't like it, he can leave but the company hasn't done anything wrong or illegal by changing their working arrangements.

          • serpserpserp on 23/08/2023 - 22:11
            +40

            @Bargainitis: Not really. People went to work and did sweet FA at their cubicle for 40 hours a week. The difference is now everyone else doesn't have to put up with those clowns because they WFH.

            Magic collaboration doesn't work by having people in the office. But if management is having a bad year, they'll argue their existence by blaming WFH arrangements.

            It'll only be by coincidence that sending people back to the office causes any turn around in company performance.

          • RTX9090Ti on 24/08/2023 - 09:00
            +4

            @Bargainitis: The OP's employer might have heavily invested on office buildings or commercial sites, without many people going to CBD their revenue goes down hence their share price goes down. maybe…

        • lunchbox99 on 23/08/2023 - 17:01
          +3

          Well it sounds like OP has been doing just that, but nothing is promised forever.

          I think as long as it's not rescinded within the first 6 months of joining its fair game. People can always leave if it doesn't suit their circumstances.

        • bman20 on 24/08/2023 - 09:08
          +3

          OP seems deluded and taking their word on HR 'promising' that they will never have to work more than 3 days a week in the offce would be as naïve as OP

      • The General on 23/08/2023 - 17:45
        +4

        |So stop complaining and go to work like everyone else

        Everyone else? WFH is the new norm.

        • Nedward on 24/08/2023 - 09:07
          +13

          WFH is not the norm for the vast majority of jobs.

          • shruglord on 24/08/2023 - 12:04
            +2

            @Nedward: Quite a stupid thing to say as a counter considering not all jobs are the same and there are literally millions of available jobs.

            Fact is for most office jobs WFH has become a norm. Comparing these jobs to gardners or train drivers or baristas is dumb.

        • Piratarzt on 24/08/2023 - 09:17
          +10

          The vast majority of jobs are not WFH.

          • Jugganautx on 24/08/2023 - 18:28
            +16

            @Piratarzt: Office workers think they are 90% of the workforce for some reason.

        • Protractor on 24/08/2023 - 16:23
          +1

          You wish

        • JPerez on 24/08/2023 - 19:03
          +4

          Do you think nurses and others can wfh? Lol delusional

          • Blitzfx on 24/08/2023 - 23:04
            +5

            @JPerez: Let me just pave the roads and work construction while WFH

            • spriggan43 on 25/08/2023 - 21:09
              +1

              @Blitzfx: Some road upgrades do feel like the must be WFH, lol

            • juki on 25/08/2023 - 23:48
              +1

              @Blitzfx: those road worker guys are always sitting on their arses playing on their phone, looks similar to WFH to me

          • beesquared on 25/08/2023 - 13:12

            @JPerez: would be a better shift if they worked from home

          • CowFrogHorse on 27/08/2023 - 00:36
            -2

            @JPerez: @JPerez

            Are you a rocket scientists ?

            Did you know that people in mines wear gas masks and other safety equipment ?

            Does that mean you also need to wear this stuff ?

            • CrowReally on 31/08/2023 - 09:53

              @CowFrogHorse: That makes absolutely no sense at all - are you even reading the comments before you hit reply?

      • tessel on 23/08/2023 - 19:27
        +23

        Bro, every business or most are pushing for customers to do things online, do it themselves and where possible not come into a physical address/store. Banks closing branches, apps to upload documents online etc etc. Yet employees are still required to come into an office. Why? I understand if it is customer facing or something requires you to be on site but most jobs are BS and can be done from anywhere.

      • Exorcist on 23/08/2023 - 19:27
        +6

        Probably one of those who sits in their chair all day doing fk all while thinking they are the backbone of the company

      • Subere on 23/08/2023 - 19:46
        +52

        Agreed.
        Let's all congest the roads and trains at the same time wasting hours a week commuting so we can sit together in a room taking Teams calls with people in other offices all day because somehow that's more efficient.

        Employment should be based on output, not roll call.

        • KevinFine on 24/08/2023 - 09:28

          Its the Prussian school system trying to stay alive, while the people have moved on. Even then I never liked roll call.

      • Breno785au on 23/08/2023 - 20:20
        +4

        Sounds like you have no idea what a KPI is and if you can hit or excel those KPIs who gives a (profanity) where you're located.

      • Mr Random on 24/08/2023 - 00:04
        +13

        The fact is you are paid to go to work!!!!!!

        Aren’t people paid to produce work. Not paid to “go” to work?

        • Nebargains on 25/08/2023 - 22:11
          -4

          You're paid to do whatever your employer wants wherever they want it done.

          • Mr Random on 27/08/2023 - 01:03

            @Nebargains: That statement is incorrect. I personally am not, from a contractural standpoint.
            I work in software managing multiple people across the globe. I would be hard pressed to get them to commute to the office every day.

          • CowFrogHorse on 14/09/2023 - 20:38

            @Nebargains: Basically nobody is paid for commuting…

      • xers on 24/08/2023 - 07:17
        +6

        Lmao it sounds like you’re just jealous of people who wfh. Sucks to be you I guess.

      • Sinnerator on 24/08/2023 - 08:12
        +1

        wow, low iq much?

      • Powlie85 on 24/08/2023 - 09:48
        +2

        Someone is a bit salty over having to physically go to work, it seems.

      • Bobby Hill on 24/08/2023 - 12:32
        +4

        The fact is you are paid to go to work!!!!!!

        The fact is you are paid to go to work!!!!!!

      • Sittingonthemoon on 24/08/2023 - 12:39
        +1

        @Amayzingone tell me you're a boomer without telling me you're a boomer

      • Vanceer on 25/08/2023 - 16:59

        You don't get paid to go to work, you get paid for your work.

        Besides, people are WORKING from home. Key word being working.

        If anything, the employer is entitled by forcing their employees to work in the office.

      • T1OOO on 26/08/2023 - 11:58
        -1

        mate, the fact that ur negged so much proves your point! haahhah gen ys and mellenials cant bed rott on ticket tock no mores!!!!

        • T1OOO on 27/08/2023 - 00:57

          Yes we get it , neging shows ur milking it. We get it.

  • vv285 on 22/08/2023 - 12:03
    +30

    Not only this but some really unreasonable changes are being proposed which everyone is objecting to like supporting 24/7 without any compensation. Apparently manager thinks that people can support prod issues in the middle of the night at 2 am without any problems.

    • stringbean402 on 22/08/2023 - 12:37
      +53

      Meh… just find another employer. You said yourself they are looking to push people out the door and reduce their numbers.

      Find greener pastures.

      • Mechz on 22/08/2023 - 13:17
        +42

        Oops my phone runs out of battery at 9pm and simply can't recover until 7am.

      • Odin on 23/08/2023 - 10:55
        +9

        You said yourself they are looking to push people out the door and reduce their numbers.

        Yup, this is what crappy companies who are failing do.

        They've realised its going to cost them less if people quit instead of making them redundant and giving a payout.

        So you make the work environment as bad as possible and hope a good number leave on their own terms.

        It's pretty awful

        • derrida derider on 23/08/2023 - 16:58
          +5

          This is correct. The problem from the company's POV is that it is exactly those who are most skilled and productive who will find it easiest to get a job with better conditions and so will be the very first to leave. It is actually a pretty dumb move.

          But OP should certainly get the hint and update his Linkedin profile.

      • qwijibo on 24/08/2023 - 10:48
        +7

        OP's employer needs to look up "The Dead Sea Effect" - basically those people who can find jobs elsewhere will be the first to leave, and the company will be left with the less capable people.

        Either way, OP is far better off leaving that sinking ship as soon as he/she can.

        • goraygo on 24/08/2023 - 12:11

          @qwijibo totally agreed. The ones who have the skills and capabilities would be greatly appreciated elsewhere and the not so good ones get stuck.

    • brandt on 22/08/2023 - 15:55
      +31

      Off to fairwork with you. Unless you're getting on call or penalty rates just turn off your phone and sleep well.

    • skillet on 23/08/2023 - 10:19

      That's why you should have an offshore support team on the opposite side of the earth that is awake while you are resting.

      • Sinnerator on 24/08/2023 - 08:13
        +1

        not when they took the job based upon WFH arrangements

      • donman92 on 25/08/2023 - 05:23
        +2

        Someone forgot to read the post properly;

        "Before joining the HR touted they offer 'great' flexibility and at max we will be asked to work 3 days from the office which now they completely reneged on."

        • lunchbox99 on 25/08/2023 - 08:31
          -1

          Surely OP (and you) aren't of the belief that any arrangements are permanent and unchangeable forever. It sounds like OP has been doing WFH for some time as HR said they could at that time.

          The business is free to re-evaluate business needs and change flexible working arrangements, and employees are free to leave if they don't like them. If the changes lead to a mass exodus of irreplaceable staff, then the business will be forced to reconsider.

          Recent low employment rates have been fooled people into thinking they can call the shots at work. Well I guarantee that the people who resisted returning to work onsite when asked will be the first to be cut when the opportunity arises.

    • garygaz on 23/08/2023 - 20:42

      I might be wrong but I’m gonna guess you work for a certain financial software company that has barely updated its software in the last 30 years. If I’m right, please look for another job - that company is going to be irrelevant in another decade. I say this as someone who uses their software for work.

    • legendary-noob on 23/08/2023 - 21:07
      +2

      Find another employer.
      Its a free market right? If there is less demand for the job that you described then your employer will need to adjust their expectation.
      Otherwise (ie many are willing to do it) then you will need to adjust your expectation.

    • Assburg on 23/08/2023 - 23:13

      Being on call… Does it have any caveats, like don't drink, must respond within x minutes? Keep a diary of all the hours you're subject to such requirements. Everything that's over 37.5 hrs a week should start accruing to time in lieu. There's a case where someone ended up getting backpaid like, thousands of hours backpay because he was required to be on call/not drink. But, do your own research.

      The company has no real duty to ensure employees are happy, but the managers do have a duty to make decisions in the best interest of the company. So, the wfh policy is meaningless unless it's in the contract. If it's in the contract…. They can still vary the contract but you can't really pursue much in the way of damages.

      • metro2012 on 24/08/2023 - 18:47

        Does anyone actually get time in lieu? Our company and most I’ve worked for in the past just milk the employees a little till they start to get burnt out a little. They are getting better however the norm is to overwork staff during the busy periods and not give back time unless it was a 5 hours overtime that night sort of situation. - I just put up with it though as have yet to meet a corporate who genuinely allows staff the the work life balance they all tout.
        Edit: busy periods are every 2-3 weeks it seems, so maybe 10-15 free hours a month over what the contract claims we do..

        • Assburg on 24/08/2023 - 21:31
          +2

          I just keep a diary of my overtime and tell my boss "hey I've done a few 44-45 hour weeks, any issue with me taking Friday off in lieu?"

          Friday doesn't work: "ok how about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday?" I simply won't leave until I get an answer.

          Oh why were you doing overtime: "this day/this day and this day needed to work on this deliverable that was brought forward/handed to me late/despite the fact I had these other things to work on"

          Sorry we just can't give you the time off now: "can I have a day of leave credited to make up for it then?"

          You really need to fight for this stuff, no one else is going to do it for you. If you're in some back of house role that requires no communication skill you've got no leverage unless you're really good at your job, or make yourself irreplaceable somehow but yeah.. if you fight for it and you're not just a mouth breather, you'll get it.

          • callum9999 on 27/08/2023 - 05:17
            +3

            @Assburg: While I agree you should fight for your rights, it's much better to establish this before you do the overtime instead of having to negotiate afterwards.

    • raginggiant on 24/08/2023 - 11:21
      +5

      If you work for free your work is worth exactly $0/hr. Don't give a millimeter. If you're doing 24/7 support then you need to demand at least days off time in lieu for any request over 5 minutes long at 4am. Sounds like there are critical issues with management there and the best thing you can do is leave before you're cut.

      • CowFrogHorse on 24/08/2023 - 18:33
        +3

        Hey… someone has to work for $0/hour otherwise the big boss wont get his bonuses…

    • Make it so on 25/08/2023 - 12:26

      Not sure what changes you are talking about, but the only changes I am aware of are the exact opposite of that. From 16 September onwards, people working in IT, Engineering or Sciences must receive compensation for every hour of overtime. And outside normal hours, the rate will be even higher. Things are about to become a lot more fair and reasonable.

    • MakkhiChoos on 25/08/2023 - 13:02

      Don’t quit. Just do what you want. Let them put you on performance improvement plan. Takes almost a year. And gives you grounds to launch appeal with fair work Australia.
      If you have been there for less than 3 years, I would just find another employer.

  • Ocker on 22/08/2023 - 12:07
    +23

    You can always move on to a different job

    • skillet on 23/08/2023 - 10:17
      +2

      Yes WFH is not an employee benefit it's a choice.

      • HeWhoKnows on 23/08/2023 - 12:59
        +5

        To be clear its the Employers choice!

        • WhyAmICommenting on 23/08/2023 - 16:15
          +8

          Yes and they changed their minds at a weeks notice. Poorly played.

          • Protractor on 24/08/2023 - 16:28

            @WhyAmICommenting: Mutual exploitation. WFH certainly spawned a whole lot of pseudo workplace lawyers. Maybe that's where those being asked to do work from base, should go? A law firm

            If ppl don't like returning to work the cost of uniforms,sundries at work,commute etc should be adjusted initially, and then annually.from then on.They should also pay an ongoing levy so the govt can support the now growing numbers of unemployed in empty cities WFH has created. I think businesses are entitled to review salaries completely now covid has flattened out.

      • drprox on 23/08/2023 - 13:09
        +29

        I'm sorry you're dealing with that mate but it's just not true. I don't know a single person back at work full time (or even close) yet.
        I also disagree with suck it up. I think the CBD across the country, roads and transport, work/life balance and families have enjoyed actual benefit from the hybrid work arrangement and I hope it never reverts to what it was.
        This is the single last positive change we can make post COVID.
        Edit - also I changed jobs 4 weeks back and am WFH 3 days/week. Yes they can change it but I don't see it happening just yet.

        • markathome on 25/08/2023 - 14:00
          +1

          I was about to click on the profile and I was like surely it won't be this easy?

          But I did and it was. You're in Melbourne!

          And given the hell Melburnians went through they absolutely deserve a little extra work from home. But I'm just not sure it extends to everywhere.

          Melbourne needs to relentlessly play to its strengths - especially now - and it needs new leadership at all levels and the Minister for the Commonwealth Games won't cut it.

          • drprox on 26/08/2023 - 13:29
            +1

            @markathome: Yeah fair point, we probably have a slightly easier time here hanging onto it. I still hope and wish all Australians would push as hard as they can (assuming they want WFH) to retain it. It's been a real improvement lifestyle wise for me and maybe I know, particularly accounting for the move to a nicer environment that could come with less time spent commuting.

      • johnno07 on 23/08/2023 - 13:47
        +20

        Good luck changing jobs and getting work from home option

        You have a uniquely limited world view.

        • Breno785au on 23/08/2023 - 20:20
          +1

          Unfortunately, it's not unique at all…

      • FareEvader on 26/08/2023 - 13:11
        +1

        You sound pretty salty that people have the ability to WFH… is this option not available to you? Or are you a landlord/investor of CBD offices? Either way, put down the salt, you'll get high blood pressure.

        I'll have you know that I'll be taking a 3-hour lunch break on Monday to go get yum cha as I WFH ;)

  • djkelly69 on 22/08/2023 - 12:08
    +29

    It sounds like a sinking ship. I would be making moves to get off ASAP.

    Not only that people with genuine work-from-home requests like people whose kids are registered in NDIS etc are being rejected requests officially

    I think this part is actually illegal. Can't recall where I read it off-hand, but I believe employers are required to offer 'reasonable' flexibility when someone has caring responsibilities. Obviously what is reasonable depends on circumstances, but it seems very unreasonable for the example given at least.

    • vv285 on 22/08/2023 - 12:28
      +4

      Yes everyone in the company is trying to move jobs now. Most people have resigned and everyone keeps complaining they are shortstaffed

      • stringbean402 on 22/08/2023 - 12:38
        +5

        So why haven't you done the same?

        • vv285 on 22/08/2023 - 13:03
          +11

          Mortgage holding me back and just need to get a little more experience in the field to jump elsewhere

          • Boioioioi on 22/08/2023 - 13:39
            +29

            @vv285: Mate just make the move elsewhere, you will get 0% of the shots you dont take. Apply and see what you get.

          • azero on 23/08/2023 - 09:55
            +2

            @vv285: How would you feel about finding a job when the company goes bust without paying you a cent ?

            Unless you can negotiate a higher salary due to people leaving, find a job now and worry about experience later.

            • vv285 on 23/08/2023 - 09:58
              -1

              @azero: As I said earlier not the best time to find a job since the market is in recession and there is a hiring freeze everywhere. Dont want to get stuck in a place that might be worse so will wait till next year.

              • azero on 23/08/2023 - 10:12
                +21

                @vv285: I would start applying now and see how everything is. Getting an offer doesn't mean that you have to accept it. It will at least give you an idea of how the market is and where you stand.

                Trust me you don't want to apply for 10 after losing your job and realize that you did not even receive a call back.

              • greatlamp on 24/08/2023 - 07:55
                +1

                @vv285: Recession will be worse next year, so will your company culture. No need to quit tomorrow but make plans now

              • Bren20 on 24/08/2023 - 18:31

                @vv285: If a recession is coming, now is the best time to find a job

                How do you think you'll go finding a job when you're let go in a recession and unemployment's at 10%

                If you're worried about a recession and you're worried about the ongoing financial performance of your company, now is the best time to leave

      • echineon on 23/08/2023 - 19:21

        should dust up resume - the more interview you go the more experience you get and also identify area for improvement. When I do interview I always give subtle hint where a candidate can improve - if they say thanks and it's a knowledge issue I'm usually happy to think twice about saying no but not for those ungrateful and think they have it all. Hope that encourage you to apply.

    • 811b11e8 on 25/08/2023 - 10:30
      -2

      NDIS registered doesn't really mean anything half of all boys at some private primary schools are on NDIS. It's used to pay for almost everything these days. If your kids has attention issues, diabetes, speech issues, needs a physio for a minor sprain etc..

  • screensaver on 22/08/2023 - 12:08
    -8

    Perhaps the company is not doing well because of all the emplyees working from home

    • vv285 on 22/08/2023 - 13:02
      +7

      It did really well during the pandemic. Shares were twice the price at an all time high so were the features they delivered

      • etan on 23/08/2023 - 12:37
        +4

        I think most IT shares were twice or more but it doesn't mean all went well.

      • No ONE on 24/08/2023 - 20:22

        That's because employees were trading shares.

        Jokes aside, share price is not really a good indicator on this case since all sectors went ATH during COVID. Most sectors are now down more than 20% from their ATH.

      • Nebargains on 25/08/2023 - 22:14

        Probably more to do with all the money printing than anything else.

    • poboy on 22/08/2023 - 16:06
      +2

      And now the employees will be motivated to dig deep and work over time from the office.

      • CocaKoala on 24/08/2023 - 08:27

        They are more likely to be motivated to find a better employer.

    • smartazz104 on 23/08/2023 - 11:18
      +1

      I'm sure that's what senior management would claim, whilst paying themselves a nice bonus.

    • Antikythera on 23/08/2023 - 15:56

      Perhaps the company is not doing well because those that were able to jump ship at the first sign of the negative workplace changes were the cream of the crop.

  • mskeggs on 22/08/2023 - 12:09
    +8

    Can you talk to your union?

    • caitsith01 on 23/08/2023 - 23:28

      Exactly - JOIN and then talk to your relevant union.

  • holdenmg on 22/08/2023 - 12:13
    +13

    https://www.fairwork.gov.au

    https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/best-practic…

    Employees could soon have the right to not be contacted by their boss outside of work hours
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12428973/Employees-…

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