This whole process of corporate Australia pandering to the woke community is getting totally out of hand
Woolworths Dumps Australia Day Merchandise
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Yeah exactly, which is why changing the date would be a no-brainer that doesn't affect anyone negatively!
But then we wouldn't get culture wars!
Those sky news presenter's kids have got to eat too you know.
I didn't know they ever stocked Bintang singlets.
May as well move the date, like Dollar General says we don't care when it is, we just want a day off to go to the beach and drink beer.
These idiots are like seagulls… you give them a chip (cave to whatever their current demand is), they won't go off and happily eat their chip, they'll return emboldened and want 20 more chips.
It's a recent holiday anyway, not like the Founding Fathers of Australia were out celebrating Australia Day.
They kind of were though…
"…Records of celebrations on 26 January date back to 1808"
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_Day
@Binchicken22: Read it through, though.
the first official celebration of the formation of New South Wales held in 1818.
Follow the source, and get this:
almanacs and calendars and the Sydney Gazette began referring to 26 January as First Landing Day or Foundation Day.
…So not Australia day; A celebration of 'first landing'. Tomayto/tomahto?
I mean, this seems pretty one-sided, localised to nsw, and exclusionary of indigenous people of the time.
It was not until 1935 that all Australian states and territories adopted use of the term "Australia Day"
…So it was given a name as reference only (ie. Not celebrated)…
not until 1994 that 26 January was consistently marked by a public holiday on that day by all states and territories.
… And not celebrated until '94
@jetblack: So it's always been celebrated. I'm happy to change the name back to First Landing Day or Foundation Day.
Australia Day I guess doesn't make so much sense anymore since the landing is not the foundation of many Australians.@SlickMick: "Happy to change the name to represent why the date was chosen, but it wouldn't make sense because the reason the date was chosen doesn't represent many Australians."
:: đź‘Ź slow clap đź‘Ź ::
@jetblack: You miss my point. I reckon Foundation Day is the foundation of Australia and I want to celebrate that. I don't like our immigration policy, and the resultant fact that Australia Day isn't important to many. But to put it bluntly, you can all go to hell, I'm going to celebrate January 26th.
@SlickMick: I genuinely don't think a point has been missed? I agree Australia Day is a great idea. We should celebrate what makes our country great and everyone in it. Many people simply don't have strong feelings that the day must be on January 26.
If you feel more strongly about the symbolism of the day than the date itself (as it seems you do), you don't need to take opposing views as a personal affront. Why get so worked up about it?
@jetblack: Who's worked up? I have no issue that many don't share my point of view. I'm just saying there is a sound reason why some of us celebrate January 26. If you don't want to, don't - no problem with me.
@SlickMick: It isn't though, Australia as a nation only came together on the 1st of Jan 1901. Up until that point the states were separate colonies, and until 1899, when WA signed on and held its first referendum on the issue, it didn't look like a third of the continent was going to join in at all.
Australia as a nation only came together on the 1st of Jan 1901.
I used to teach this in Primary Social Studies -> Society & Environment -> Civics, to 11 and 12 year olds.
@smalltime0: You can celebrate Jan 1 if that's important to you. To me, that's just a milestone in the progress that had already started.
I reckon Foundation Day is the foundation of Australia
No it wasn't. Australia didn't exist for another 112 years. Foundation Day was the foundation of a penal colony in New South Wales, nothing else.
@SlickMick: And you know what what the difference between setting up a penal colony and establishing a nation is, I'm sure.
@DashCam AKA Rolts: Yep, lets celebrate the day when we first started importing convicts into this land and displacing and killing the natives. Sounds like a great thing to acknowledge. Let us just get a new day maybe?
@SlickMick: Commemorates the "Australia" we have today. Roads, hospitals, housing, bridges, agriculture, security, health, relative prosperity. Today's Australia.
Like it or not.
And not celebrated until '94
That is 30 years ago though… 25% of Australia's entire existence as a nation.
@trapper: That's a good point, but it renders January 26 insignificant if we're focusing on federation. It also happens to still be more recent than most Australians were born (median age ~38.5 as of 2022). People only point out the recency of the day to show that it's not some time-honoured tradition that must be held onto at all costs.
@jetblack: Tell that to the Yanks and their 4th of July.
None of them were alive in 1776 yet they still celebrate today, with passion and patriotism.
Tell that to the Yanks and their 4th of July.
The funny thing is that the 4th of July is actually worth celebrating - they are celebrating the day that they declared their freedom from what they perceived to be a dictatorial colonialist power.
Celebrating the 26th of January has nothing to do with Australia at all - it is the celebration of a random group of English convicts who landed in New South Wales. It has nothing to do with the establishment of the colony, nothing to do with Australia becoming a country (or federating), and has nothing to do with the Australia we now know today.
Even if you don't believe that we should change Australia Day for the sake of indigenous people, at least we can pick a day that has more relevance to modern day Australia. FWIW, unless you live in NSW, the 26th of January is actually a completely random and irrelevant day.
Celebrating the 26th of January has nothing to do with Australia at all
Yes it has. Everything.
If it wasn't for that "tragic" arrival of British naval mariners (not convicts) the Australia you and I enjoy today wouldn't exist.
Perhaps the French would have created something but eventually they left La Perouse.
Perhaps the Dutch would have created something but eventually they left northern Australia.
Reality is only one and the Australia of today exist because of that event.
@LFO: What a bunch of convicts turning up and raising a British flag? If we were celebrating the first time Cook stepped into land I could, possibly, understand it a tad but we’ve seen a lot of changes since then that make a lot more sense. For a start this ceremony was NSW, not Australia.
“The first time that the name Australia appears to have been officially used was in a despatch to Lord Bathurst of 4 April 1817 in which Governor Lachlan Macquarie acknowledges the receipt of Capt. Flinders' charts of Australia.On 12 December 1817, Macquarie recommended to the Colonial Office that it be formally adopted. In 1824, the Admiralty agreed that the continent should be known officially as Australia”.
If you want to go the colonial route then how about Australia day be when we became Australia.
The first time that the name Australia appears to have been officially used was in a despatch to Lord Bathurst of 4 April 1817
Utter rubbish.
This land was known and labeled as Terra Australis since cartography was first drawn …
@LFO: I’m talking about officially applied by the Government of the day, which you guys place so much stock in. However, I’m happy to go back to where Terra Australis was first attached to a cartography map, if you can find it.
Me,I think Federation makes the most sense. When we became a nation rather than a bunch of colonies.
which you guys place so much stock in
Big problem number one.
Creating division between the us and the you
That is the devil of this pointless bitching.
Unity achieves. Division doesn't.
@LFO: What do you guys keep going on about Terra Australis. If you can find out when it was put on a map when can celebrate that. However it did not become the official name of Australia under the Government of the England/UK until after 1817. If you want to celebrate something associated with what the English/UK Government did then at least be consistent.
If it wasn't for that "tragic" arrival of British naval mariners (not convicts) the Australia you and I enjoy today wouldn't exist.
Bloody hell, did you actually do any reading?
The first British naval mariner to reach what is now known as Australia, i.e. Captain James Cook, was the 19th of April 1770.
The next British naval mariners to reach what is now known as Australia were the HMS Supply and HMS Sirius (which carried Arthur Phillip) on the 18th and 20th of January 1788, respectively, which arrived prior to the First Fleet.
The first fleet (which were a set of 11 ships) then arrived and basically floundered around at sea whilst struggling to land, which they then made it in on the 26th of January 1788. So yes, Australia Day does reflect the arrival of the convicts.
The issue is that none of the people involved with the above events had any conception of the actual Australia that we have come to know today. They viewed themselves as British, and had no identity of being "Australian" the way that we do today.
If you wanted to really pick a date which represented the first conception of Australia as a country, it would be one of the following - the 17th of March 1898, where the decision to adopt a bill to "Constitute the Commonwealth of Australia" was taken, or the 5th of July 1900, where the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 passed the UK parliament, or the 9th of July 1900, where Queen Victoria gave royal assent to the bill, or of course, the 1st of January 1901, which was the day we actually became a country.
Yes, the 1st of January is already a public holiday, but we could easily just celebrate the 2nd of January (which I think most would prefer to the 26th of January for practical reasons anyway).
I personally don't really care much about the politics of the 26th of January, however, I think that if we are to have a discussion about what the day should be, we need to approach it objectively, without a bias towards a particular date just because that's what it's always been.
My view is that if you were to have polled people today what they think Australia Day is, most would say the day Captain Cook arrived in Australia - which means we should actually really change it to the 19th of April. And if you ask people what Australia Day ought to be, most would likely say something along the lines of "the day we became a country" - I think this is very fitting. We are Australian, not British, and we ought to celebrate that.
The first British naval mariner
You said it. First on 26th January.
if you were to have polled people today
The rejection of the "Voice Referendum" is the best indication people had enough of division and racism and hatred and recrimination.
Probably the same with 26th January.and we ought to celebrate that.
And what is that exactly if refusing to remember and celebrate our real recent history?
@LFO: The first British Naval Mariner was James Cook and not on the January 26th. That date was when a Pom raising a British flag in NSW. We didn’t become Australia until after 1817 and we didn’t become Federated until 1901.
Look at the history of referendums in Australia. They rarely get up, especially if you have a spoiler on one side. Even the referendum to make Australia a Federated Nation failed with the smaller states even refusing to take part. The Voice meant nothing apart from the LNP running a good scare campaign.
Actually you are not celebrating Australia Day you are celebrating British people doing something in NSW day. Frankly January 1st should be Australia Day because that is when we became a Federated Country. It is laughable what you are celebrating. It has nothing to do with Australia and its people.
@try2bhelpful: LOL An answer for anything and everything.
I wonder what you (as you have chosen to divide between "us" and "you") celebrate?
Referendums? Its the only way to democratically express popular opinion in Australia.
So a No means NO (aka REJECTION) and a Yes means YES (aka adoption/APPROVAL).Be careful, blaming "campaigners"!! It works both ways!!
And is utterly offensive.@LFO: If you read anything about referendums they are notoriously difficult to get passed in Australia. Very few get the majority needed. As I said if you get a scare campaign happening from the other side you can guarantee it will fail. That is what happened. You only had to look at how the poll numbers were affected.
You think we shouldn’t have become a Federated country because the referendum failed? We should still be a whole bunch of individual states? Because that referendum failed as well.
The campaign did affect the outcome and it used nonsense like “if you don’t know, vote no”. Would you accept this from your child or would you say if you don’t know then do some investigation and find out? What is offensive is saying people should just accept their ignorance.
I’m pointing out we are currently celebrating a Pommy guy, raising a Pommy flag with a bunch of Pommy convicts in NSW. With our rich history there are much better things to celebrate. We could celebrate becoming one Federated country, which would be the logical thing. If you were colonial we could celebrate Cooks landing. Frankly the current option is not Australia and not Australians; so why Australia Day?
@try2bhelpful: Interesting the animosity against Australia Day.
Do the same nitpicking occur for:
Halloween? Nothing to do with Australia!
Christmas Day? Chosen/agreed date but 25/12 in Oz is NOT 25/12 in Bethlehem !!
Queen's birthday!!! Wasn't even her birthday!!!!!
ANZAC Day? Why one day only?
Remembrance Day? WWI? Germany defeated? Really? WWII anyone …Every day has a valid or inherited reason and it is accepted or tolerated as such.
All this bitching about celebrating or not celebrating Australia Day is just to create division and hatred for a rather irrelevant issue.
@LFO: Ramping up the emotion much? It seems I’m hating my country, or hating Australia day or whatever else you think I hate. Im just putting out that it is a daft day to be celebrating Australia day because it has little to do with anything Australian. It would be better called “Pommy flag raising day”, but then people might twig what is really behind it.
Personally I think most of what is “celebrated” in public holidays are pants too. I think most people would be more than happy if there were labelled “Public Holiday on this date”. We have a unique set of public holidays and they change periodically. I think most Australians would love it if we just aligned them to create a long weekend.
“Remembrance Day was originally called 'Armistice Day', and 2 minutes of silence was observed for the first time at 11 am on 11 November 1919 to remember those who had died.”
Wrong war mate. The 11/11 at 11 is to commemorate when the armistice was signed after WW1.Things are challenged and changed all the time. Otherwise women wouldn’t have the vote. We might still have a White Australia party. You think that the English landing in Australia didn’t create a division? Or do you think that Indigenous people just don’t count.
Step back and look at this logically. Let’s find something Australian to commemorate.
@try2bhelpful: Just to clarify two things.
“Remembrance Day is one of the most important days on our commemorative calendar. It's a day when we acknowledge those who died while serving in wars, conflicts and peacekeeping operations.” Not just WW1 and WW2.11/11/1918 at 11 o’clock is when hostilities ended for the WW1.
You said it. First on 26th January.
Come on, are you just being purposefully dumb now?
The rejection of the "Voice Referendum" is the best indication people had enough of division and racism and hatred and recrimination.
The Voice referendum is a different issue. As I stated clearly in my last post, I don't really care much for the politics of the 26th of January. However, what I do have an issue with is dishonesty. Those who support keeping the 26th of January should be honest about what that date actually represents.
And what is that exactly if refusing to remember and celebrate our real recent history?
I gave you specific examples - we went through a process in our real recent history just a little over 100 years ago to choose self-determination and federate to become our own country. This was the first step in coming to the Australian identity that we have today. People born here after that date were Australian citizens for the very first time, not British subjects.
FWIW, I think you're misguided - you view this discussion as some sort of attack. It's not intended that way, I simply think there's an interesting discussion to be had on which day we should choose to celebrate as Australia Day. If that makes you uncomfortable, you need to reconsider your life priorities.
I think you're misguided - you view this discussion as some sort of attack.
Not an attack?
How about:are you just being purposefully dumb now?
..
you need to reconsider your life priorities.
Very respectful approach?. NOT!
You seem to dislike dissent, belittling ideas and opinions that contradict yours.
And nothing is valid to support such opposite ideas to yours.
"Not applicable" … "It's different issue" …And then, when that fails, blame the result as a conspiracy of some kind to make it invalid.
Very respectful approach?. NOT!
I'm serious though - I don't understand how we've gotten to the point that we can't just have an objective discussion about what date we should celebrate as Australia Day without others viewing it as some form of attack on their integrity.
I genuinely feel that if you feel that strongly about Australia Day (whatever date you feel it should be) that you're taking the whole thing a little too seriously.
You seem to dislike dissent, belittling ideas and opinions that contradict yours.
Really? I've said countless times that I don't really even care about the date of Australia Day, I think it's just an interesting and fun discussion to have.
And then, when that fails, blame the result as a conspiracy of some kind to make it invalid.
You know, this is the fundamental issue about talking to people these days. I think that there is quite a lot of fun in having objective discussions where we focus on getting to the right answer.
The funny thing is, Australia Day has only been a public holiday for the last 30 years. I literally remember a time before it was a public holiday and it may well have been the case that a different date was chosen 30 years ago to be Australia Day. I think there's some fun in asking the question of what were the other alternative dates which could have been chosen.
If that is offensive to you, again, you need to reconsider your life priorities and do some reading my friend.
By 'these idiots' do you mean First Nations Australians who might not find the invasion of their country and 240 years of subsequent trauma something they want to celebrate?
They could celebrate the leap forward from stoneage tech to 19th technology. Modern health care, welfare systems, education.
Us Anglos don't complain about the Romans teaching us things.
Being "invaded" by the British was the best thing that ever happened to the aboriginals.
Genocide was the best thing that ever happened to the aboriginals?
@Autonomic: The Aboriginals genocided who ever was here before them, if that's the game you want to play.
@BarginBrah: I have said to people what proof do you have that the Aboriginals were the first ones here!
Genocide was
Unfortunately self-extermination did it.
But that +15% that survived have today far more chance$ and benefit$ than any other Australian.
Stop hating.
Unfortunately self-extermination did it.
No it didn't.
But that +15% that survived have today far more chance$ and benefit$ than any other Australian.
And their quality of life? Would you be happy with someone killing 85% of your family if they gave you enough money?
@Autonomic: Who killed who?
How many Aborigines were killed by other Aborigines? Their savage and brutal infighting are factual.
Divisive brainwashing and indoctrination works.
@LFO: Captain Cook just rocked up to an empty land after the indigenous population genocided themselves? Interesting
@Autonomic: Nope.
The aborigines, the indigenous people, got the worst of the new comers.
Like common deceases non existing in the island but profusely but unknowingly carried by Europeans.
Also their inability/unwillingness to adapt put the icing in the cake.Those that adapted survived, multiplied and thankfully are doing very nicely indeed. Through very hard work and commendable dedication.
Check that guy in the bank note.
Ask Jacinta Price, Warren Mundine and etc.
Far too many to mention …@LFO: We have time. Off you go mention them all. I don’t think it will take very long. And for the very few that have “adapted” there are far more doing poorly. You might want to look at the statistics on alcoholism, DV and incarceration, education levels, health outcomes, etc. Those that have done well tend to be in sport.
Take off the rose coloured glasses and look at the reality. Look at the history of how they have been treated.
@try2bhelpful: In other words: our fault ( alcoholism, DV and incarceration, education levels, health outcomes, failure); not theirs.
Have you ever heard the biblical: I have done nothing wrong, the devil … the devil make me do it …
Sounds like your mantra here.By the way, for non indigenous that have badly and dramatically failed, who is to blame?
@LFO: So now it is biblical scripture is it? This has nothing to do with the devil and I’m not bringing him in here. Maybe go back and look at how the various Governments have treated Indigenous people. The 1967 referendum was in my lifetime.
Yes, I think we have created an environment where these issues are going to be more prevalent. However, by throwing out the Voice we aren’t even giving them an entrenched way for their opinions to be heard by Government.
Frankly I think the Opposition screwed up big time on this. They should’ve said “we don’t think it helps but if you want to do it go ahead”. Then when it passed they could’ve said “there ya go, now make it work”. Now the LNP has driven the Teal electorates even further to the Teals and, if they do get back in power, we can turn around to them and say “where are your “more concrete” solutions?”. The ALP can say “we tried but you stopped us”.
Like common deceases non existing in the island but profusely but unknowingly carried by Europeans.
Also their inability/unwillingness to adapt put the icing in the cake.The massacres, mass rapes and enslavement was what destroyed them. Don't whitewash history. That's what racists do.
Australia was invaded and colonised violently and forcefully.
@Thaal Sinestro: You say this like the only way Aboriginals could have received modern technology is through genocidal invasion.
@Cheaplikethebird: Why do you think Australia was invaded? Indigenous land rights are based on the fact that there was no invasion.
@BarginBrah: Actually, resistance to the Roman invasion was pretty staunch in Britain, ever heard of Boudicca? Of course 'Us Anglos' were still in Germany, where they never stopped fighting the Romans.
@grammarstickler: We resisted, just like we resisted every invasion. The Romans, Anglos, Saxons, Norman's, french, Spanish etc. but at the end of the day, we got over it an now can look without crying victim. We are allies with countries we used to fight. Maybe Aboriginals should take a look back and be appreciative. No one alive today was alive back in the 18th when we colonised.
I can certainly understand why First Nations Australians don't want to celebrate the holiday. How about nominating a new day everyone can celebrate?
The other part is First Nations people have to acknowledge that if it wasn't the British that invaded and set up shop here, it would have been the Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese, or even the Belgians. None of these were renowned for the respectful and nice treatment of the native people they found.
@Cluster: We did that and everything was fine and no-one really cared - which is actually the Australian way.
But then John Howard realised he could dog whistle to racists by putting the date on 26 January and making it a point conflict for everyone and a kick in the guts to Indigenous people.
@SpainKing: On the context of Australia, it was colonisation, not invasion.
Of the European powers, probably Spain - what they did in South and Central America was appalling. In the late 18th century, if you weren't already colonised, you were going to be - and had no say in the matter, and in that context, the coloniser of choice was Britain.
Australia wasn't invaded ( as defined by international law) but as a libertarian, I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has the right to express it.
@R4: If you classify yourself as a libertarian, it sounds like your opinions aren't entirely your own.
Old friend used to laugh as he abused the system, never worked, free dental, low interest home loans, priority housing, special lawyers no charge, indigenous only jobs etc etc.
Its 2024, playing perpetual victim forever seems to work for the low achievers,and the top tier indigenous for land grab claims..i.e money.
Went to visit a national park as we dont pay fees due to concession, guess who manages the national parks where we had to pay ?
First Nations Australians
WAIT!!!!!
There was no "Australia" then!!!
How could those "First Nations" could be labeled Australians? ? ? ?
This. Our norms and institutions are being salami sliced away. It's a clever move as, unfortunately, it's working.
Our norms and institutions are being salami sliced away.
Lol, aren't you a libertarian, you're not even supposed to believe in norms and institutions.
You're just a conservative, stop using "libertarian" to pretend to sound smart.
Username fits perfectly.
Oh no, people who want the rights they're entitled to, where will it end???
I think thats right. Its the day off that most care about. The folks that love to drape themselves in flags can do so 365 days a year and can buy them off aliexpress if they want to.
“There has been a gradual decline in demand for Australia Day merchandise from our stores over recent years. At the same time there’s been broader discussion about January 26 and what it means to different parts of the community,” a spokesperson said.
So while it may be political, it's also them trying to avoid the likelihood of the merch ending up in a clearance bin
But they won't be dropping hot cross buns because some people don't like Easter, will they?
I mean, they pretty much said that if more was sold then the politics wouldn’t matter
Do people oppose Easter?
"Do people oppose Easter?"
When China takes over
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China
.Yeah - I don't believe them.
WW was pretty heavily on the YES vote and I suspect they planned stock thinking the YES vote would prevail.
This decision was a miscalculation on their part of where Australia was at on the Voice referendum, and them not backing away from being wrong.
Yeh but that shit sells and actually makes them money
As above, they make money and don't end up in clearance…
But they dont make major announcemments when they discontinue other products.
If hot cross buns did not sell, they would stop making them and put the ingredients towards a different product. Bit hard to do with Aus Day merch as once WW has bought it, it either needs to be purchased by consumers or offloaded in some other way.
they have data from recent years. so order much less stock compared to last year… so that you almost guarantee it will sell out. halting altogether is political virtue signalling.
I’ve never bought cheap AusDay rubbish made in china anyway but this isn’t being done to save the environment
hot cross buns unsold can end up in the bin too
@itsme56: Got any other right wing tropes like “virtue signalling”? You want to include “woke”?
Obviously not enough stock is sold to make it worthwhile so they are discontinuing product. Just as they discontinue other products that don’t sell. Stuff needs to be procured, analysed, ensure it meets Australian standards, shipped, etc? It doesn’t just come down to the cost of a couple of items that might get bought at the stores.
Any other useless products, that aren’t commercially viable, that you think you can force a private industry to sell? Talk about “virtue signalling”. What is the message you are sending?
With hot cross buns they sell a heap of them over many months. Otherwise they wouldn’t sell them starting on Boxing Day.
To 9 out of 10 aussies, the public holiday means more than anything else.
Labor day is what we should celebrate better