Backlash to a new $120,000-a-year union pay deal for stop-sign holders working 36-hour weeks has prompted a heated defence of tradies.
What side are you on?
Should Stop Sign Holders Get a Pay Rise to $120k?
capslock on 19/02/2024 - 10:37
Last edited 19/02/2024 - 11:08 by 1 other user
Last edited 19/02/2024 - 11:08 by 1 other user
Poll Options
- 194Yes
- 867No
Comments
Spot on
Jealousy is so gross
It's not a case of envy, it's a case of taxpayers or ratepayers paying taxes for unskilled labour at exorbitant rates - it's absurd.
What?! It takes skill to hold a stop sign.
Greg, the Stop Sign.
Next thing up from holding a pole.
Mate, $120k is a rounding error in terms of government expenditure.
Pretty sure there's more than one stop sign holder.
Huh, they usually work for private enterprise!
I'd consider doing this for 120k :)
No.
Whats really absurd is paying corporate management tens of millions in bonuses and compensation.
Thats why your electricity and gas keeps going up, because the money to pay these parasites comes from the community paying their gas/electricity bills.
In most compamies the ceo is the least skilled person in the company. Just look at Alan Joyce, can he fly a plane ? Or how about the Optus ceo ? She couldnt do shit on that day.
In most compamies the ceo is the least skilled person in the company
Can a pilot run a multimillion company? Can your Woolies checkout person run the whole company?
While it would be nice to have, those specific skills aren't what's really needed to drive a company.That being said, i do agree they could afford to not take the bonuses.
In some cases this is true, but if wage is (ideally) a reflection of value then why are we valuing this job more than a teacher, nurse or police officer? This is not a job that requires skill or training… It's not always a bad thing to make a value judgement.
There's value in doing a job nobody else wants to do.
That's a pretty valid point. I'm a teacher. I'd get paid more doing the stop sign thing, but it seems like a really average job.
@Gowrie29: Exactly, I'd get paid more too but no way I'd want to commute every day to sit in the sun and be bored half the time and abused the other half. The worst kind of boredom too, absolutely mind numbing work but with just enough attention needing to be paid so that you can't switch off completely. No thanks, I'd rather be doing something useful in an air conditioned office.
@Gowrie29: dont you feel like it sort of ranks teacher lower than stop sign holder?
I have a complicated job involving death or avoiding it, shiftwork, abusive people, yet i earn less than a stopsign holder..hmmm
which jobs could society do without, teachers, oncology grunt, or stopsign holders….if only they even did their job properly ? i get stuck in traffic for ages because its go home time for their mates at the construction site - i'd get rid of the job all together
If it's pure supply and demand, then all good! It's there's a low labour supply (due to conditions) and high demand, then it makes sense they are paid a lot.
I'm not sure how I feel about it if only due to the unions… like in one sense, good on them for negotiating… in another sense, it only adds inflationary cost to every project, which we all ultimately pay for (and that seems unfair).
@The Wololo Wombat: Why can't they use foreign labour to fix the housing crisis? We are already doing that for fruit pickers and highly skilled doctors and nurses by hiring from overseas.
@xdigger: It's a decent idea (though not sure how it's relevant to the above discussion)… but I think that labour here is quite skilled and with very strict regulations and niche state/federal rules that would not fit the skills of an overseas worker… they'd likely have to be retained here.
At 120K it will become a job many want to do.
Are you sure it's a job no one wants to do? I don't believe it's easy to get that particular role unless you really know someone or in recent cases are on OnlyFans (according to few funny anecdoetes in the industry).
@Jaysful: I swear there must be a diversity quota thing going on for these positions lately. There have been multiple roadworks 365 days a year around my area for 2 years now, and every single stop sign holder is a woman. Every. Single. One.
There's value in doing a job nobody else wants to do.
Very true.
However this job can be done by an empty barrel, or a dummy plonked into an empty barrel holding the same sign.
The job is literally worthless and Australia is one of the only places in the world who still have a roadworks crews employing someone to do it.
Isnt it $120 k because of the danger
Even for 120k I think a lot of people wouldn't want to do this, which is probably why it's set so high.
@SimAus007: re the comment you deleted on the other thread…….."have another puff son"
If you're my father's age, the only way you could stand and hold a stop sign would be if you'd been tied to a tree to hold you up…. old man!
lol "danger".
@Tleyx: Cool, you found the 1 construction worker a year that dies like that. Great job. I'm sure a teacher has died on the job in the last 12 months, does that mean that teacher is a dangerous job?
THe real question is why are we valuing corporate leaders as being worth tens of millions.
When they have basically zero skills ?
Can Brad from Woolies pick fruit ? Can he program the computers ? Can he fix the scanning machines to work correctly ? How many customers did he serve last week ?
There's very few people who have the skills to successfully manage a billion $$ company. Not that I don't think so many are overpaid…. but when your success is the difference between 100m loos or a 100m profit… it can makes sense if you are paid $$.
@The Wololo Wombat: TWW: There's very few people who have the skills to successfully manage a billion $$ company.
cow: says who ?
Who says they are successful ?
I can think of dozens of examples of complete idiots who run multi billion dollar companies. There are also some who run entire countries.
What makes you think they earned those positions based on merit ?
What makes you think they actually know what they are doing ?
You have been brainwashed by American corporate propaganda into believing the big lie that corporate leaders know what they are doing.
Ever heard of MBS ? He has spent billions bringing people like Ronaldo to Saudi Arabia ? Do you know how many people actually attend the stadiums he plays in ? THey are paying 200M a year to Ronaldo, and there are often less than a thousand people at each game.
What about Putin ? He is the leader of Russia, and look at what he has done ?
Maybe we should talk about Branson ? Want to talk about his monumental stupidity in Hyperloop or Virgin Galatic ? Anybody with half a brain knows Hyperloop would never work.
What was the name of the lady who "ran" Optus ? How does a person who cant even setuop a wifi router possibly know anything about running a tech company ?
Grow up.
@CowFrogHorse: I'm not saying they deserve their pay… or they they all do a good job.
However, you said "they have basically zero skills" which is verifiably incorrect. I'm not sure if you've even been a middle or senior manager of people, but I can't imagine that, if you had, you'd not think someone who manages millions of $$ and 1000s of people having 'zero skills'. Organising labour is perhaps one of the most important skills of all.
Also, I'm not sure why you'd say Richard Branson is stupid lol. Maybe his hyperloop idea will prove/has proved unviable but the guy is far from stupid.
@The Wololo Wombat: tww:
However, you said "they have basically zero skills" which is verifiably incorrect.cow:
They have far less skills than most if not all others in the same company.Gerry Harvey for example doesnt even know how to use a computer.
Being rich is not a skill, most rich people in Australia have a very questionable past.
tww:
I'm not sure if you've even been a middle or senior manager of people, but I can't imagine that, if you had, you'd not think someone who manages millions of $$ and 1000s of people having 'zero skills'cow:
Is this a joke ?
Ive spoken to very high people in the public service, the type that run entire departments. Being an IT, these people barely know how to send an email, and they also barely know a single thing about the core business.Ive also worked in large corporations, again its the same. The higher you go up the less skills they have.
Most people in corporate australia are there because its a boys club, nothing more.
Take the Optus day last year ? Optus is a technology company, do you think the CEO could fix anything ? You do realise she can barely type, and doesnt know how to even setup wifi. Every technology the company uses is cmpletely Irish to her. She wouldnt have a clue how to judge anything, just like you or me wouldnt have a clue how to pick brain surgery equipment.
@The Wololo Wombat: TWW: Also, I'm not sure why you'd say Richard Branson is stupid lol. Maybe his hyperloop idea will prove/has proved unviable but the guy is far from stupid
cow:
Mate anyone with half a brain could easily verify that creating a vaccum tube that is hundreds of kms long is complete bullshit.
The large vaccuum chamber in the world today is barely larger than a garage. Anything going 1000km an hour needs straight lines, it doesnt take a genius to figure out that buying real estate to support straight lines thru cities will cost zillions. It also doesnt take a genius to realise land isnt perfectly flat and level, again building tunnels thru mountains, etc will cost Billions.
The bloody tunnel acros the sydney harbour cost Billions, building a STRAIGHT line to Brisbane will require many many tunnels, thats so many zeros its impossible.
I havent even covered all the other problems. and its already impossible.
@CowFrogHorse: Sure I agree with you about the hyperloop… but also, aeroplanes were impossible once too, as is every invention. Sometimes the impossible is possible… and it takes someone crazy enough to try. I'd not judge Richard for the failure of one of his ventures, but net success overall.
Also, I really don't think it's relevant if Gerry Harvey knows how to use a computer… he clearly knows how to run a successful company and he is able to hire people who can do do this well (and his financial success is a testament to that)…perhaps his inability to use a computer could mean is he has an inability to adapt to modern trends… however, if he's a good businessman, he will hire the right person to do this. You seem to be confused about what being a CEO is, they do not/should not understand the technical aspects of every role, but understand how to organise/enable other people to do their role/use their skills.
I agree with your sentiments in public service… the government is not in a competitive environment, so this breeds ineffective leaders as there are few metrics for success and very few natural consequences for failure (unlike the private sector)
Curious, are you a communist? You seem not to understand the value of organising labour, which is common to most communists I've met.
@The Wololo Wombat: tww: Sure I agree with you about the hyperloop…
cow: So you agree
tww:
but also, aeroplanes were impossible once too, as is every invention.cow: Please stop being childish. Its not a yes or no question. Life is a bit more complex than that.
tww:
Sometimes the impossible is possible… and it takes someone crazy enough to try.cow:
Being crazy has nothing to do with it. Its about calculations, always has been always will be.tww:
I'd not judge Richard for the failure of one of his ventures, but net success overall.cow:
Have you actually bothered to check how he was a success or are you just a child that says he is rich he mus tbe smart.Most of his success has been built on government hand outs. DO i really need to remind you of the $400M the gov of Arizona spent on the space port there ? DO i really need to point out the countless subsidies and bailouts for his virgin trains etc in UK ?
You arent even trying to break things down, you are taking a childish look at things.
@CowFrogHorse: I'm curious to understand why you believe I'm being childish? Perhaps you mean my thoughts lack the complexity of full context?
@The Wololo Wombat: tww: I'm curious to understand why you believe I'm being childish? Perhaps you mean my thoughts lack the complexity of full context?
cow: Im addressed this in my reply.
Your replies are overly simple.
You see Gerry harvey being rich and you assume he is smart and never consider many other factors. Life is a bit more complex than that for example he could have inherited the money or he could have sold drugs. Just having money doesnt mean you are smart.
@The Wololo Wombat: tww; Also, I really don't think it's relevant if Gerry Harvey knows how to use a computer…
cow: Its very relevant, his entire business wouldnt work without computers.
Half his employees wouldnt be able to do their job if they couldnt use a computer.
~
tww: he clearly knows how to run a successful company and he is able to hire people who can do do this well (and his financial success is a testament to that)…
cow: Really ? Are you reading your own sentences ?
Are you really going to pretend that Gerry has personally hired and verified the skills of 100s of his employees ?
You are making a lot of assumptions simply because he has money he must be smart.
Princess Diana for example was fro one of the richest families in the UK. Her Brother is an Earl, there are only a few of those in the UK, and they have estates and homes that are amongst the finest in teh world with treasures you that are better than the national gallery.
She also believed in Astrology to guide her decisions.
~
tww:
perhaps his inability to use a computer could mean is he has an inability to adapt to modern trends…cow:
he wouldnt have a company if it wasnt for computers. its a bit like not being able to read or write and yet you rpetend its optional.tww:
however, if he's a good businessman, he will hire the right person to do this. You seem to be confused about what being a CEO is, they do not/should not understand the technical aspects of every role, but understand how to organise/enable other people to do their role/use their skills.
cow:
Here we go, extremist talk. I never said he had to understand every role, iim simply pointing out he is not smart at all in one of the most basic skills everyone neesd today.Most rich people are lucky or crooks or both, thats a fact.
~
tww: Curious, are you a communist?
cow: did i say i was ?
~
tww: You seem not to understand the value of organising labour, which is common to most communists I've met.
cow: Where did i say that ? Can you actually quote me.
all i said is ALL people should be judged and evaluated on their skills and achievements. I said it was wrong to have a double standard and only judge and reward ceos, ALl people at woolies should be judged for their own work.
If a compuer programmer implemented some feature that saved trucks lots of petrol by being more efficient in how they distribute their goods, why arent they rewarded with millions if they saved the company tens of millions in petrol ?
traffic contort is up there shit job i had do for few month after a job loss i can say it nightmare it hot in north Queensland and boring and it suck some site sent luck to 1 car in hour other luck not run over well on the job. what nice job do you have?
As a fellow wage earner why would I care?
Because your tax dollars could be going elsewhere, and it adds to the cost of all projects and is inflationary.
Inflation + Wage Growth = Good
Inflation - Wage Growth = Bad.This is wage growth therefor it is good, unless you make your income predominantly from investments instead of wages in which case you've already got yours so suck it up.
Inflation + Wage Growth = Good
For some, not for all.
@iDroid: A wage rise for one worker helps justify a wage rise for all workers. Denying a wage rise for one worker helps justify denying wage rises for all workers.
@Cheaplikethebird: There are groups of people that inflation + wage growth will not be favourable - for example, retired people.
Inflation and wage growth just reduces the value of all savings/etc.
@iDroid: With a 20% rent increase last year and my grocery shop doubling I’m a little more concerned with my ability to build a nest egg rather than my ability to live off said nest egg some 30 years down the line. Especially when I’m competing with people who are handed a nest egg or two at birth.
@Cheaplikethebird: Its because of corporate sell outs.
Take the Tram to Randwich which cost $3B.
Why are Australians paying the bill to transport foreign students to the uni , so the uni can make money ? Your parents and mine paiid taxes to build and pay for that uni, and yet now that its built the spots are sold to foreigners. Now they need more transport, we the tax payers pay the bill not the uni.
Thats jsut one example of what is ruining Australians.
@Cheaplikethebird: I’ll be sure to take this news article to my employer as justification for a pay rise. It’ll go down great
@iDroid: Exactly. Unions distorting wages for their workers is good for them but terrible for others and the overall economy.
Example - the UK in 1974. Unions negotiated large increases, which was good for their mrmbers. Non-union workers (a majority) and the overall economy got smashed by the subsequent huge inflation. In 1975 the UK government had to get a bailout from the IMF. It helped to a degree but their economy continued to decline. In 1979, by which time it was a basket case, Margaret Thatcher was elected and she sorted their country out (after much pain).
@R4: Wow you are brainwashed. Swallowed the corporate propaganda hook line and sinker. If you look at neo-liberalism and the results since Thatcher-Ragan and think workers have come out well you are nuts.
People could afford a family, house and car on one person's wage, now they can't with two people's wages.
Wealth distribution has has grown increasingly unequal with the majority of created wealth now going to the wealthiest 1%.
Home ownership decreasing. Homelessness increasing. Personal debt increasing.
When two competing companies come together they can agree on one thing. Wage suppression is good and worker disunity is beneficial. They strategise on how to increase profits at the expense of the worker.
When workers see other workers get a great deal on an EBA. They complain, tear down, say things like teachers should get that money without supporting teacher strikes. Or refer to UK strikes in the 70s.
Unions didn't make Britain's economy a basket case, it was a range of demographic, geopolitical and strategic factors. It was the end of a centuries long empire. Look at where they are after 4 decades of neo-liberalism. Worse off unless you work in finance in London. The only way forward is unionisation and worker solidarity.
@candlelarbra5212: Love this post. Depressingly true.
Conservatism and also gutless pro business and anti middle class Labor parties have got us to where we are.
@candlelarbra5212: Wow, you just made a load of assumptions about me that you couldn't have possibly gotten from what I wrote - but party on with what you want to believe.
Unions, on their own, of course didn't make the UK's economy a basket case - and I never made that case - but they certainly didn't help. There were many reasons for that. What did happen though was that massive union driven wage rises drove inflation crazy - it got to close to 30% at one stage - which contributed to their economic demise. That's undeniable fact. Referring to the UK in the 1970s is macro economics 101 about how not to run an economy.
Unionisation has its place that's for sure, but it's not the solution - but like I said earlier, party on Garth with what you want to believe.
@R4: I made exactly one assumption about you. That you are brainwashed. That was based off your statement and I've yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
Your relating a wage price spiral to a good EBA for sign holder. That's nonsense.
It's not the 70s. Inflation has been driven by corporate greed enabled by lack of competition and deregulation. A hallmark of neo-liberalism.
Inequality has sky rocketed, people can't afford houses or families and fools like you rail against sign holders on a good wicket. Ludicrous.
Times have changed, what you're talking about is neo-liberal propaganda from half a century ago. Wages could easily increase without any danger of a wage price spiral. The only thing that would be hurt are oligopoly's bottom line and some CEO bonuses.
@candlelarbra5212: Feel better now that you've gotten that off your chest?
I found out long ago that arguing on the internet with people you don't know is pointless. So party on with whatever you want to believe champ.
@candlelarbra5212: Yes R4 is completely brainwashed.
You can be super sure all those corporate super-capitalists are often the biggest corporate welfare recipients in the country.
Look at Bezos, basically every Amazon warehouse is only built there because of freebies from the government for billions. Same story for Musk, his companies receive ten of billions in government grants.
that just one study showing $5b in gifts from the gov…
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-201…
Elon Musk’s growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies
If a worker gets a $5 pay rise its socialism but Musk gets $5b and counting and thats not welfare.
@candlelarbra5212: Why can't we use foreign labour to fix the housing/infrastructure crisis? We are already doing that for fruit pickers and highly skilled doctors and nurses by hiring them from overseas.
@xdigger: The housing crisis is caused by corporate greed.
They sell out australia, and leave the REAL BILL to australian tax payers.
Developers sell a few homes, but the cost of MORE schools and hospitals doesnt come from them, it comes from regular aussies…
Thats why there is a housing crisis.
@R4: Thatcher started the path to where we are now, rampant corporate greed and extortionate pricing for things like housing.
Thanks for reminding me she's still dead though.
@R4: What a joke.
Its bad to pay workers a few extra dollars, but its okay to spend tens of millions in bonuses. What you fail to undestand that often the money those comapies want to save on paying workers is simply diverted as bonuses to the corporate leaders.
@CowFrogHorse: Eh?
I was just making the observation that large pay rises for big sectors of the workforce has a huge effect on inflation - as seen in the UK in 1974. Inflation went from 17-18% to close to 30% in a short timeframe and helped crash their economy - to such a degree that they needed a bailout from the IMF. That's it.
@R4: Bullshit.
You also completely ignored the mega bonuses and payments to management in the same period.
@CowFrogHorse: Bollocks.
I'm ignoring nothing. I made one point - a contributor to inflation and economic decline. I never said that was the only reason. That's it - but believe whatever you want to believe.
@R4: You were clearly trying to mislead by implying that statement was the ONLY factor.
There are many ways to lie, omitting facts is also a form of lying.
@CowFrogHorse: Bullshit
You clearly didn't read what I posted and decided to mouth off and spout some shite instead.
I suggest you reread what I posted.
@R4: i did you said…
I was just making the observation that large pay rises for big sectors of the workforce has a huge effect on inflation - as seen in the UK in 1974. Inflation went from 17-18% to close to 30% in a short timeframe and helped crash their economy - to such a degree that they needed a bailout from the IMF. That's it.workforce is typically understood not to include management.
@CowFrogHorse: I also wrote:
'Unions, on their own, of course didn't make the UK's economy a basket case - and I never made that case - but they certainly didn't help'
I’m more worried about the asset owning class eating up my tax dollars and creating inflationary pressure with their spending. The sign holder's on my team.
Quite often the asset owner is the government or getting funded by the government…
YOu should be caring more about corporate leaders paying thesmelves tens of millions.
That money comes from joe public.
Those buildings full of these parasites costs a lot of money.
it is in our interest to have 500k uber drivers imported annually and that future generations are priced out of renting or buying shelter so that the GDP graph can continuously increase
I don't think those are the people he was talking about. :)
BCF had a great special on starter tents the other day.
Line must go up. Nothing else matters.
No its not.
THe gig economy is nothing more than abuse and creates an underclass. Having a large number of people who cant afford a home or food means many will turn to crime. This is what has happened to America.
Best quote in the article
"“Everyone is allowed to increase the cost of everything but we are not allowed to increase wages — fair dinkum? We want a pay rise to keep up with the cost of living and we are not allowed? We are not going to be the sacrificial lambs.”"
Union members are paid well above the average and the further they stray, the more they have to spend compared to the average Joe, leading to inflation. If everyone in Australia were paid on CFMEU rates we wouldn't have an economy left. Just a mafia of overpaid man-children with productivity that has been scathed by the productivity commission. Only reason for their continued existence is thanks to a labor government doing their mates a favor and handing them projects. Most ministers in labor are ex union executives, sounds pretty corrupt to me…
Case closed.
I prefer to focus on improving my own salary, not criticising other people for being successful at doing the same.
What a load of garbage and misleading information…
No lollipop worker is or will ever do a 36 hour week and get 120k a year unless they are doing all night shifts on double time at a minimum.
Average pay for them is $25-35 ph and most are casual. All their money is made in OT and allowances.
Who in the world is paying them $60+ ph monday to friday day shifts?With happy ending, yes.
Well sureeee the ‘journos’ can use facts and common sense in articles but how are they going to generate rage clicks and that sweet sweet ad revenue?
I knew better then to even click when i saw news.com as the source.
You do have to hand it to them though…
They know their way around a rage click and clickbait title well haha.My one solace… i use ad blockers
the real lols is the time when i go ok, **** it, go on then, show me the article so i can rage…then its paywalled lol
@Jimothy Wongingtons: Gave me a good chuckle.
Glad to know im not alone hahaha.At that point im like, “ahh screw ya, didnt want to read it anyway”.
The narrator’s voice: “he did in fact want to read it”.
I knew better then to even click when i saw news.com as the source.
And now we wait for the resident "redditors" to claim that news.com stole their story.
What a load of garbage and misleading information
I feel these are dangerous. The sign holders ask for a pay increase, sensationalist rage articles make everyone say "down with your money"! Government workers (teachers/nurses) ask for a pay increase, sensationalist rage articles make everyone say "down with your money". Next its the barista, the labourer, the administrators and the technicians.
Then we all turn around in 5 years time and say "whoa I can't believe everyones wage besides the rich CEOs never matched inflation, how could this happen?!".
I’m not against anyone getting a payrise.
Heck, holding that sign is a tough job (on some sites).
I couldn’t/wouldn’t do it.Im against the misinformation they post.
It’s misleading to make people think that the average lollipop worker is on 100k+ as it is and going up to 120k.It’s misleading to make people think that the average lollipop worker is on 100k+ as it is and going up to 120k.
But I saw a chick on TikTok who was earning a bazillion bucks as a lollipop holder!
I hate it when people who I deem of lesser value than myself are more valued by their employer than I am.