AmEx Application Declined

Nuclearvodka on 27/02/2024 - 19:16

I had an Amex credit card for a few years with absolutely no missed repayments, no default of any sort and I cancelled it when Covid hit, as I didn't want to pay the $395 per year fee if I wasn't going to use it.

Fast forward 3 years, I make more money, I have bought my own place, my credit score is the same (or at the very least has improved) and somehow, they declined my application.

The only reason I can find, is that I now have a HECS debt since I went back to uni during Covid.
But when I called, all the customer service guy could say, was his scripted line saying the calculation score meant that I was uneligible.

I make much more than the minimum amount
I have no debt, no other credit card.
I had a card with them in the past and didn't miss a single payment.
And they declined my application without even asking any further questions or asking for more documents.
What kind of service is that?
The person on the phone was a broken records and clearly did not want to move away from his script.

I am baffled by that lack of flexibility or transparence in their prossess.
I genuinely do not understand how/why they made that decision.

I could have entered any bullshit, say that I do not have a HECS debt and it would have been approved.

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Comments

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 27/02/2024 - 19:24
    +2

    could have entered any bullshit, say that I do not have a HECS debt and it would have been approved.

    Well I guess nothing stopping you from applying for a different Amex from a different institution and doing this (other than a temp hit to credit score which probably doesn’t affect you either way)

  • Godric on 27/02/2024 - 19:25
    +8

    I could have entered any bullshit, say that I do not have a HECS debt and it would have been approved.

    lol, the ignorance

      • Godric on 27/02/2024 - 19:31
        +15

        I entered all the information truthfully, and they couldn't even tell me why they declined it.

        Fantastic, you didn't commit to application fraud.

        • deme on 27/02/2024 - 20:19
          +1

          Jesus what degree did you do?

          Your HECS repayment amount is calculated on income not hecs amount.

          So there is no point asking.

          • based on 02/03/2024 - 00:44

            @deme: That would make sense, but not how it worked for me on my home loan, it got lumped in with unused credit card limits as total existing debt

      • rumblytangara on 27/02/2024 - 19:41
        +21

        You've missed out an obvious answer here- you are assuming that the credit card assessment process and assessment thresholds have remained unchanged over the past 3 years.

        Given that for starters interest rates are wildly different from pre-Covid, this is a flawed assumption.

        • Nuclearvodka on 28/02/2024 - 06:08
          +5

          Fair point

          • Antikythera on 29/02/2024 - 23:55
            -2

            @Nuclearvodka: as a young graduate i must have been put on a list. got heaps of offers of credit cards. never chose to get one.
            eventually after a few years those offers stopped coming.
            would you have perhaps crossed over that timeline?

      • Nuclearvodka on 28/02/2024 - 06:08
        -2

        The negs are funny, I wasn't being sarcastic at all.
        I genuinely wanted to be enlightened!
        lol.

        • Pantagonist on 29/02/2024 - 06:18
          +9

          You never get told why credit applications are refused.

          This is common practice across all banks and credit institutions.

          You don't appear to understand that so I suspect that is why you're getting negged.

        • idonotknowwhy on 01/03/2024 - 10:49
          +2

          Here's a genuine answer to what I think you don't know:

          Q: Why can't you just enter random bullshit on the application?
          A: Because they run a credit check with equifax, etc. If there are any descrepencies like wrong address, not declaring debts, late bill payments, etc then they'll see this and reject the application.

          Q: Why did Amex reject your application?
          A: As you said, they won't be transparent about it, but things have changed since pre-covid. Cost of living is higher, your income provides less purchasing power, there may have been a tightening of lending regulations, etc.

          I've been rejected a couple of times when doing the card-slutting to get points, but then approved later by different banks (ANZ are particularly shitty). Just try again with another provider. NAB are pretty easy.

    • HeWhoKnows on 01/03/2024 - 22:49
      -1

      And who wants an AMEX card anyway?
      Cost much more to use everywhere you go!

      They have done you a huge favour dear OP !

  • jakka on 27/02/2024 - 19:29
    +7

    I had a similar experience a few years ago when I applied, though HECS was paid off, no debt other than mortgage. I had requested a low limit credit card, essentially to use for online transactions so as to minimise risk. They rejected it, I then reapplied asking for a higher credit limit and it was approved. Makes no sense to me other then them trying to make more money.

    • Ryk on 29/02/2024 - 07:32
      +10

      them trying to make more money.

      that is their sole purpose.

    • garygaz on 01/03/2024 - 10:05
      +1

      I can imagine they would have a huge amount of data behind these decisions - could be something like a high income earner asking for a low limit card is likely to be a customer who utilises their credit balance in a way that is beneficial to them and not profitable to the company. Whereas higher income and higher limit card customers are more likely to have an outstanding balance earning interest.

    • ItsMeAgro on 01/03/2024 - 18:13

      Yeah OP is assuming there is some kind of logic and/or fairness in lender's assessments of who they want to lend to.

      Nope.

      My guess is they rejected because they saw you used to have an Amex card and cancelled it, without paying them much interest, since you were smart and sensible and reliable and paid on time. They often have some kind of spoilt-child policy of "f you too, then!".

      But it could be absolutely anything. It doesn't have to be a "good" reason.

      Amex sucks anyway, wait a bit and get a better credit card like visa or mastercard where there are fewer extra fees.

  • soan papdi on 27/02/2024 - 19:31
    +11

    And they declined my application without even asking any further questions or asking for more documents.
    What kind of service is that?

    They're under no obligation to give you a card just because you apply. I've been rejected twice for Amex, seven years apart. Both times, I've been in stable jobs and mortgage.

    I am baffled by that lack of flexibility or transparence in their prossess.

    Laugh and move on. It's just a credit card.

    • Harshmellow on 01/03/2024 - 13:01
      +1

      This should be the motto for a happy life: Laugh and move on!

  • HardQuiz on 27/02/2024 - 19:31
    +1

    Did you change address recently? Or change employers?

    • ninnypoop on 28/02/2024 - 21:13

      Does this effect the application?

      • HardQuiz on 29/02/2024 - 06:37
        +2

        Sometimes yes.

        Avoid applying in the first 3-6 months after changing either.

    • paloverde88 on 01/03/2024 - 19:50

      they are looking for the perfect specimen of a debt host or debt carrier.
      you obviously do not have what it takes to be a debt carrier, I mean a mountain of debt that is.

  • sumyungguy on 27/02/2024 - 19:46
    +1

    I've seen previous discussions where applicant(s) massively under-declared their expenses. Did you have this well covered off?

  • Shoocat on 27/02/2024 - 19:59
    +22

    You said you have bought your own place. Do you have a mortgage that you didn't before? That could be a major factor and more significant than a HECS debt.

  • GourmetFoodie on 27/02/2024 - 20:06
    +1

    Do you have any other credit cards?
    Do you cycle through credit cards chasing points and deals?
    Have you downloaded your free copy of your credit report to ensure no identity theft?
    How tight are your expenses with mortgage?

  • areustillpretty on 27/02/2024 - 20:21
    +6

    Well, they even declined my request to increase the credit limit last year. Just like you, I've never delayed or missed payments for the last 10+ years.
    What you need to understand is that the serviceability assessments have become really strict so something you would have been approved 3 years ago can be declined these days.

    • AlanHB on 29/02/2024 - 06:47

      This happened to me last year too, despite having doubled my income since first getting the card, and then reducing the limit (ie. I was applying to have the limit increased to the amount that the card originally had). Ended up moving to ANZ who approved the limit I was seeking, though ANZ processes were painful in their own way.

    • ItsMeAgro on 01/03/2024 - 18:18

      I've never delayed or missed payments

      So you're saying your a customer who doesn't make them a bunch of extra free profit because you pay on time and so don't pay much/any interest?

      Assuming a bank is reject you for a "good" reason, not a sinister one, isn't a good bet.

  • jhaley3180 on 27/02/2024 - 20:41
    +5

    Between banking Royal Commission, significant interest rate rises, you've picked up a mortgage, cost of living increases etc. These all change your serviceability. So I'm the end they've declined you and they are not obliged to explain why.
    Shrug and move on.

  • JIMB0 on 27/02/2024 - 20:42
    +6

    You're not missing much. The offers are pretty crap these days.

    • jv on 27/02/2024 - 21:42
      +1

      $5 off your fuel bill after also claiming 8 cents off isn't too bad…

      • JIMB0 on 29/02/2024 - 08:23

        $20 back for a $50 spend a Myer was much better value even with inflated Coles express prices.

  • Lunarboogie on 27/02/2024 - 21:28
    +5

    Amex has toughened its processes considerably in the last few years. I've stopped applying after succesive KBs despite a lack of debts and high salary. I suspect I'm on a list after years of rorting the bastards. Ces't la vie.

    • blonky on 29/02/2024 - 14:06
      +2

      Same here, word on the street is they don't like card churners

  • jv on 27/02/2024 - 21:40
    +2

    Try again in about 5-6 years.

  • JimmyF on 27/02/2024 - 21:50
    -1

    I make much more than the minimum amount

    Move on, they don't want you as a customer for whatever reason.

  • mbck on 27/02/2024 - 21:52

    When you had it in the past, did you have issues with amex? (Eg, chargebacks, complaints,etc?)

  • kron on 27/02/2024 - 21:57

    Did people get accepted for the 120k Velocity points offer? My application was rejected as well. And those idiots send paper mail, instead of an email, to inform that.

    • moar bargains on 28/02/2024 - 12:40
      +3

      Yeah I got knocked back from AMEX for the 120k velocity offer a couple of weeks ago too. And they made me call up, verify my input details and then told me "System says no".

      SMH

      • tkboi on 28/02/2024 - 21:18
        +2

        wao my wife got the same treatment as well, however she does only apply once every 18months.

        Im not sure if they are finally catching up to the churners?

        • moar bargains on 29/02/2024 - 07:27

          Yeah not sure if it's the rise in interest rates that's making lots more people not meet the mark, or of they're shadow banning churners. I've certainly churned several of their cards in the past.

    • Walleee-y on 28/02/2024 - 22:27
      +2

      Yep, rejected here too. Advised by snail mail in the post…

  • ozbargainsam on 27/02/2024 - 22:42

    It's suspected that, assuming you applied for a card with a bonus offer, that they're declining people who they suspect are churners. I've not been turned down for churning any of my previous non-AmEx cards.

    I've just submitted an application myself, a serial churner. Let's see how they treat it.

    Btw, they almost never tell you why an application is knocked back.

    • Butterchurner on 28/02/2024 - 09:03

      Yeah they just told me to make an Equifax account so I could understand their decision. That did not help at all.

      • jonkvh on 28/02/2024 - 14:20

        Equifax are hopeless. Made me wait a month for access, then never heard a thing from them, even rang them back & emailed. Nothing.

  • kyle on 27/02/2024 - 22:57

    Lesson learned that once you have a card, don't get rid of it as with 360 reporting, it's harder to get one back

  • USER DC on 28/02/2024 - 01:01
    +4

    when amex, and HSBC rejected me, in past (with my good records) I said to myself I aint ever applying to this bank again, I move my business elsewhere.
    and in my time both banks said nothing as for the reason for rejection, (other than its confidential and we cannot say it)
    you should also just move on to another bank mate IMO,

  • AustriaBargain on 28/02/2024 - 02:13
    +1

    I have no debt

    You own your house outright? That's pretty impressive. Give them a call and tell them.

  • Halo375 on 28/02/2024 - 07:31
    +1

    Its not just about what you earn its about what you spend too.

  • reactor-au on 28/02/2024 - 08:48
    +1

    I was rejected too a few years ago, with a 876 credit score, 6 figure income and no debts but a 6k limit on another card.

    I don't know what their problem is, maybe they figure I didn't need another card so I was likely a churner.

  • 2esc on 28/02/2024 - 11:17
    +3

    Take your business elsewhere why waste your time worrying about it.

    Never even entered my mind to get a Amex card there are better options out there.

    • prtroz12 on 28/02/2024 - 23:21
      +1

      What are the other better options compared to AMEX?
      Just curious and would like to consider something if application with AMEX doesn't progress further.

      • Ryk on 29/02/2024 - 07:37
        +2

        Bankwest Platinum and Bendigo card. Neither have a $395 fee.

        • djsherly on 29/02/2024 - 10:26
          +2

          the $395 is basically a redemption code for a return flight within australia.

  • Dollar General on 28/02/2024 - 11:24

    Generally, unless it’s because of your credit file, they do not disclose why you were declined. This is to stop you reapplying and changing that particular information

  • numloxx on 28/02/2024 - 11:52
    +1

    How's your credit rating score? Has it gone down since?
    That's the first thing they check, but they might not tell you. If it's below 800 they might not even look at you.

  • Gareth on 28/02/2024 - 13:32
    +2

    absolutely no missed repayments, no default of any sort

    So… not a profitable customer then.

    • rumblytangara on 28/02/2024 - 15:56
      +9

      I'm pretty sure that Amex makes the vast bulk of their revenue from transaction fees and not from people who can't pay their bills monthly.

      • ItsMeAgro on 01/03/2024 - 18:23
        +1

        I think you might be surprised.

        A few percentage points of fee here and there is nothing compared to 20% interest on the thousands of debt on credit cards of the half of the population who don't pay it off each month.

  • 82norm on 28/02/2024 - 16:30
    +2

    Why the hell do you want an Amex card in the first place?

    • Nuclearvodka on 28/02/2024 - 16:36
      +1

      Points, lounge access, travel insurance to name a few.

      • askbargain on 28/02/2024 - 17:11
        +3

        Be a supp card holder for travel insurance or get an annual fee card that includes it.

        Points, just churn.

        Lounge access, if you're talking about their centurion lounges in Australia, lol

        • ItsMeAgro on 01/03/2024 - 18:30
          +1

          The highest-rated travel insurance, SCTI, was less than $200 for my family on my last international trip. Half the $395 per year OP quotes just to have an Amex.

          Read the policy fine print, and you'll discover that Amex and other credit card travel insurance policies are carefully designed to exclude almost everything you'd actually ever claim.

          SCTI pays claims quickly without fuss, covers your rental car excess so your car hire is cheaper, and a bunch of other stuff.

  • DingoBilly on 28/02/2024 - 19:28
    +1

    Amex seems to be locking down a bit lately. They've declined me twice in the last year or two despite significantly being over their minimum limits and having minimum debt myself.

    I'd suspect they have automated something to only accept customers they can make money off or to not accept credit card churners.

    In both cases I applied for a different credit card a week later (for credit card churning) and was accepted despite both cards having higher limits.

  • Drakesy on 28/02/2024 - 19:51
    +3

    Don't overthink it.

    AMEX is on a run of declining for little to no reason.
    I've been rejected with a perfect credit score yet with multiple churned credit cards over the past year (they hate churners).
    They want somebody who'll sit on the card and pay the full year annual fee every year.

  • Pinchy on 28/02/2024 - 20:45
    +1

    I just upped my limit and was approved straight away. I dont think i make that much, have a mortgage and a hecs debt. Never paid interest either as always paid on time.

  • patso on 28/02/2024 - 21:31
    +1

    You bought your own place in the last 3 years and have no debt? Yet here you are on OZBARGAIN?

    • Brakus on 01/03/2024 - 11:59
      +1

      I think that is why he is on ozbargain

  • TightAl on 28/02/2024 - 22:45

    Maybe you don't make enough

  • prtroz12 on 28/02/2024 - 23:16
    +1

    I applied for Platinum Credit Card few days ago and when called next day to find out status or if I have to submit any pay slips as an evidence, the operator told me that my application is unsuccessful. Didn't want to tell me for what reasons. Said, the letter would come in mail.

    Really surprised by their process!!!!

    • Drakesy on 29/02/2024 - 12:32

      Yeah the snail mail approach to declining you is extremely backwards and costly to them, don't really get it.

  • Manazuru on 29/02/2024 - 07:24
    +3

    Your mortgage is probably the main reason for AMEX declining you.

  • gimme on 29/02/2024 - 08:31
    +3

    You said 'I have bought my own place' and 'I have no debt' . Did you buy your place outright?

  • cashless on 29/02/2024 - 10:49
    +1

    This recent post on OzB forum probably explains your predicament.
    I have also been passed over for AMEX due to being a serial churner.
    But I'm not going to get all upset about it.

  • jasiano on 29/02/2024 - 11:30
    +1

    so many things affect your serviceability and credit assessment, not just the fact you have a stable job with an income.
    They don't have to provide specific reasons for your decline, just that it did not meet their lending criteria. I suspect there are things that you have omitted from your post that have probably affected it.

  • jbu22en on 29/02/2024 - 11:36
    +2

    Work in consumer finance (though not credit cards) - we will rarely tell someone why they're declined. This avoids the temptation to learn and remediate for the next application either here (we'd catch it I'd hope) or elsewhere.

    You're declined - the reason is not going to change the outcome. Take your business somewhere else

  • Nirmitha on 29/02/2024 - 12:16

    Their application process went downhill lately. Took 5-6 weeks to even call me for more information about a recent application.

    When their perks to begin with are really poor in AU (compared to US for example), on top of the limited merchants who accept Amex with no extra fee - Amex is not worth the trouble anymore.

  • sim777 on 29/02/2024 - 14:48

    I recently got declined for AMEX card. multiple times over minimum salary requirement, one credit card currently open (ANZ Black), one previous AMEX card that was closed 2 years ago, no other loans or HECS. Operator couldn't tell me why I was unsuccessful.

  • trapper on 29/02/2024 - 15:38

    I have bought my own place

    I have no debt

    You bought the house cash? How much is your HECS?

  • Excelsior on 29/02/2024 - 16:10

    Unfortunately you're at the mercy of the bank's algo/program - if it says you don't meet their criteria per their 'assessment', then that's the result you're going to have to accept. The reps don't have to provide a reason (they probably don't know exactly anyway, they'll just say that that's what the program spat out).

    Annoying, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

  • The General on 29/02/2024 - 19:26
    +3

    I applied for credit a couple of years ago and was quite conservative with what I put down as my spending. It got declined. I immediately re-applied and doubled the spending amount on the application. Was successful the second time.

    My conclusion. They want people that are going to spend lots of money.

    • drfuzzy on 01/03/2024 - 19:54
      +1

      This is a good tip.

  • DanielTr on 29/02/2024 - 20:55
    +3

    Its a hit and miss system. My friend earns <65k salary, serial churner. Got approval for Amex Velocity Plat. Just changed the job to Gov a month ago and still well withthin probation. Has mortage and 2 kids. Easy prey for the shark bank I guess

  • paloverde88 on 29/02/2024 - 21:13
    -3

    why on earth would you want an American express card beats me, it's so 80s
    it is virtually useless, not accepted in 99% of places everywhere on earth, and even if accepted the merchant wants you to pay more in service fee.
    I'd say hold on to your cash or do after pay, pay nothing, owe just 8 weeks and then you are done.
    American express my foot.

    • sumyungguy on 29/02/2024 - 21:50
      -1

      As an Amex member for 30+ years, I'm gonna keep this to myself seeing as you don't appear to be able to figure it out.

    • millie2323 on 01/03/2024 - 11:41
      -1

      Some people just don't get it….

  • burningrage on 29/02/2024 - 22:48
    +1

    With that $395 fee, you did the right thing and close the AMEX account. Don't worry about the rejection, try somewhere else.

    However, I will say this. Unlike what the majority said here, I don't agree for lenders not to tell the reasons for rejection. Initially it made sense to me the reason being to stop the applicant from "learning" on how to apply better in the future. But then again, the more I think about it, the more I feel what is wrong with trying to make a better application?

    Hopefully future Govt will legislate against arbitrary refusals. You wouldn't want to be declined banking service (not credit card) for arbitrary reasons, would you?

    For now, the lesson I have learned from this was never to close my existing (free) credit card facility. You won't get it back.

  • Salternative on 01/03/2024 - 00:59
    -2

    you sound entitled, they are a business and can choose who they want to take as a customer. I am a churner, they declined me twice, I move on , no ill will . Income as per the ATO table places me in top 1 percantile .
    If i ran my own business , i would refuse to take you on as a customer as well, why would you want to take on a customer who makes you next to no money and acts like his farts smell like Oud Wood. Good on amex.

    • Brakus on 01/03/2024 - 12:00
      +3

      He is just asking why and gathering inputs… don't be too sensitive

      • Salternative on 01/03/2024 - 12:43
        +2

        Yeah , I guess i did came across a bit harsh.
        The reason for the decline could be that
        1. amex seems to be running an algorithm based on expected profitability . Amex makes money from two ways, one is merchant fees from transactions ( higher revenue than mastercard/visa as they charge higher merchant fees , dont have it off the top off my head but i think it can be as high as 3%, that is why merchants hate amex ) . The other is interest/charges from deferred full repayments . Their systems ran the numbers over his past revenue vs the cost base ( points/insurance etc) and probably decided against it .
        2. There might be an issue with his credit file. He can check it at creditsavvy /equifax/experian . They might also have a minimum baseline credit score , say 800 .
        3. there is not much buffer between income and declared expenses in the application, so serviciability is not there .
        4. they are declining churners , but op is not a churner going off his comments , so unlikely .
        5. recheck the application, it might be a data input error ( i once put an extra 0 in mortgage repayments in error , that caused an auto decline ).

  • Willy Beamish on 01/03/2024 - 01:06
    +2

    So what if you make more money? Move on, you shouldn't need it anyway.

  • liongalahad on 01/03/2024 - 02:17
    -5

    I honestly dont get why people want to use a credit card in the first place. And Amex! half places dont accept it, the other half charges crazy surcharges for it. ew

    • illusion99 on 01/03/2024 - 10:20
      +2

      To collect points. I haven’t paid for a flight in over 10 years due to points i collect from credit cards.

      Also is a basic rule in finance to pay anything as late as possible as you rather have the money in your account/investments/home loan as long as possible. Credit cards allow you to delay paying cash for 30-55 days interest free.

    • millie2323 on 01/03/2024 - 11:50
      +1

      It's because you're doing it wrong.

      If you want to travel with Jetstar everywhere you go, then sure. but if you want a cheap and easy way to fly business, credit cards are the way to go.

      Finding the right rewards flights can be difficult but not impossible. Most of the stores I shop to accept Amex (Woolies, Kmart, JB, Bunnings etc). Even online stores accept Amex without fees like Catch or Amazon.

      Plus if you have a mortgage, you can keep more money in your offset to help you save even more in the long run.

      • Brakus on 01/03/2024 - 12:02

        Qantas use Jetstar :(

  • bargainfinder on 01/03/2024 - 18:56
    +1

    Just want to share my experience, not rubbing salt on your wound.
    I earn less than six figures wages, have a mortgage of more than half a mil, have a current 10k limit credit card. I apply and was approved the next day. They assigned me the limit of 26,600$ which i am very surprise. I had an Amex card in the past but closed a few years ago.

  • paloverde88 on 01/03/2024 - 19:42
    +1

    all these obsession with American Express so 80s and:

    Lehman Brothers was acquired by Shearson/American Express in 1984 for a reported $360 million. American Express owned Lehman Brothers from 1984 to 1994, at which time it spun the company off via an initial public offering (IPO), which attracted more than $3 billion in new capital.

    What did Lehman Brothers do illegally?
    Accounting fraud: they used a trick called Repo 105 to remove a significant amount of debt off their books, just in time for the quarterly reports. The accounting fraud was so big, that Lehman's CFO in 2007 refused to sign off on the financial statements, but instead resigned.

    What was the result of the Lehman Brothers scandal?
    Lehman filed a Chapter 11 petition that remains the largest bankruptcy filing in U.S. history, involving more than US$600 billion in assets. The bankruptcy triggered a 4.5% one-day drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, then the largest decline since the attacks of September 11, 2001.

    more vigilant in declining applications than looking at internal frauds. why would anyone want to be associated with that kind of financial management.

  • drfuzzy on 01/03/2024 - 19:51
    +1

    You probably have too much debt, your situation is too complicated, or you don't spend enough.

    I am in the top 1% of earners and was consistently declined from any sort of credit (I assue due to excessive debt) for the last 5 years despite overall low leverage and good servicing history. Even Afterpay declined me.

    I recently got approved for my second Amex card but it took a heap of calls - the more sources of income and the more complex your situation is the more work required.

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