Apple MacBook Air 13" M2 256GB (Midnight) $1439 + Delivery ($0 WA C&C/ In-Store) @ Retravision (Price Beat $1375 @ Officeworks)

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Apple MacBook Air 13" M2 256GB (Midnight) $1439 + Delivery ($0 WA C&C/ In-Store) @ Retravision (Price Beat $1375 @ Officeworks)
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Ljosephlin on 27/05/2024 - 08:36 retravision.com.au (2810 clicks)
Last edited 27/05/2024 - 09:35 by 2 other users

Hi all,
This is my first post. Please be nice.
I was going buy a M2 Macbook Air for my daughter for school after seeing JB Hi-Fi had it for 10% off. I showed up to Officework on Sunday morning only to find that the deal finished overnight. Officeworks has also put their price back to $1499. Luckily, Retrovision still had it for $1439. I thought the price would be correct over the day, but looks like it is still valid.
Make sure check Retrovision price before you ask for price beat, as it could go back to RRP any time. Thanks

Computing Apple Computer Laptop

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Comments

  • eddyah on 27/05/2024 - 08:46
    +9

    Great buy! I reckon these have a 10 year lifetime minimum

    • tightm8 on 27/05/2024 - 08:51
      +76

      I say this as a massive Apple consumer, 8GB ram is a joke when you're paying this much.

        • PainToad on 27/05/2024 - 09:01
          +49

          It should be raised as an issue in every deal so people can make an informed decision about their purchase.

          You’re free to make a counter argument.

            • LanceVance on 27/05/2024 - 09:17
              +21

              @1st-Amendment: 8GB is a joke for any machine that you'd like to last for more than a few years and have some longevity in line with Apple's much aggrandised 'green' credentials. Just because you don't agree that doesn't mean a valid point hasn't been made.

            • PainToad on 27/05/2024 - 09:19
              +11

              @1st-Amendment:

              Which part of " 8GB ram is a joke" do you consider to be 'informed'?

              If I was completely clueless, it would at least highlight the potential issue and prompt me to do some research and form my own opinion before going and spending 14 hundred dollars.

              You are yet to make an actual argument.

              Where did I say one way or another in this thread how I feel about 8gb of ram? All I have said is it’s completely fair enough for people to raise it as a potential issue and others are also entitled to put forward other views.

              Your username is looking pretty ironic right about now.

              • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 10:51
                -1

                @PainToad:

                it would at least highlight the potential issue

                Would it? Because when I read comments like that I think 'just another Karen moaning on the internet about things'. Do you take every complaint you read on the Internet seriously? That must keep you busy.

                Where did I say one way or another in this thread how I feel about 8gb of ram?

                'Counter argument' implies there is an argument somewhere. I'm just asking where you think this argument is?
                "8Gb is a joke" is not an argument, it is just whining.

                Your username is looking pretty ironic right about now.

                Is it? How?

            • jasonxc on 27/05/2024 - 10:48
              +3

              @1st-Amendment: Argument for what?
              If people think $1.4k for a laptop with 8GB ram represents poor value for money, they're entitled to that opinion. If you don't like it, tough tits.

              • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 10:52
                +1

                @jasonxc:

                Argument for what?

                My question exactly.

                If people think $1.4k for a laptop with 8GB ram represents poor value for money, they're entitled to that opinion. If you don't like it, tough tits.

                We seem to agree.

                • jasonxc on 27/05/2024 - 11:25
                  +1

                  @1st-Amendment: and yet here you are trying to argue with everyone exclaiming their distaste for a $1400+ price tag on an 8GB ram laptop.

                  • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 12:41

                    @jasonxc:

                    and yet here you are trying to argue with everyone exclaiming their distaste for a $1400+ price tag on an 8GB ram laptop.

                    I never said they weren't entitled to their opinion. The poster above claimed there was an 'informed' argument somewhere, I merely asked what that was since the only comment was '8GB is a joke" which isn't an argument at all.

          • tightm8 on 27/05/2024 - 09:15
            +6

            @PainToad: Precisely, especially if someone 'reckons these have a 10 year lifetime minimum'.

            That is all.

            Otherwise these are great machines. I have one.

      • SimAus007 on 27/05/2024 - 08:59
        +9

        I agree, I wouldn't be touching 8GB of ram nowadays, I'm perplexed they still do this, as a base I'd go for 16GB.

      • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 09:00
        +8

        8GB ram is a joke

        The real joke is the people who don't understand how RAM is used in a computer and keep repeating that same old cliched BS…

        I'm currently using 5GB on this computer, why do I need more than 8 if I'm only using 5?

        • bananabendera on 27/05/2024 - 09:01
          +9

          Because the SSD which is used for swap is not able to be replaced. Once that wears out the computer is junk.

          • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 09:03
            +9

            @bananabendera:

            Because the SSD which is used for swap

            Swap is only used when you need more RAM then you have.

            So back to the original question, if I'm only using 5GB why do I need 8?

            • 811b11e8 on 27/05/2024 - 09:30

              @1st-Amendment: Probably depends on how you use it, my web browser and chat client are using 5GB alone, that's without the OS and me opening any actual work applications like my email client etc.

            • doobey1231 on 27/05/2024 - 09:39
              +1

              @1st-Amendment: I am 100% on your side with this. Although I agree its worth noting to potential buyers to just make sure that they don't need the extra capacity. But I would happily argue 8gb is adequate for most users that a base model MBA is geared towards - someone that browses social media, does the odd email and word document and thats about it, all in a premium alloy chassis(cause its not really fun sitting in an airport with your creaky plastic acer aspire 3 lol). The 16gb minimum rule is very much a windows thing.

              The argument does stand that at $1500 16gb ram tends to be the base line in other machines, but apple is famous for its "just a little bit more" sales tactics - great starting price but you're up over 2k for a macbook air with just a couple small upgrades.. like 16gb ram and 512gb storage, which isn't really much when you consider those cost what like $300 extra?

              • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 10:33
                +1

                @doobey1231:

                The argument does stand that at $1500 16gb ram tends to be the base line in other machines

                Toyota does mostly the the same as a Mercedes, yet Mercedes cost more. There's more to a machine that just RAM

                • doobey1231 on 27/05/2024 - 10:56
                  +2

                  @1st-Amendment: Yeah I dunno if I agree with that analogy tbh, mercedes isn't selling you cloth seats as a premium option.. The problem is that if you are buying a toyota and getting leather seats as standard then logic would say mercedes would give you leather and then some, considering the premium price.

                  This is the base line I used to form my opinion, and most of the other manufacturers offer roughly the same. You are still getting a pretty decent display, something that can reasonably compete with the MBA screen, an all metal chassis, good keyboard etc etc plus an i7 with 16gb ram.

                  This is a little bit of apple pissing on us and telling us its raining, which is classic apple telling consumers what they need, and like I said, I tend to agree, the base MBA user is not a powerhouse user and really would get away with 8gb of ram, but the disconnect lies in the price point, to sell a laptop with 8gb of ram at $1500, then charge $300(last time I checked) to double that ram, making it a $1800 device is just not cricket in my eyes. Even taking into account the apple premium experience, you should be getting 16gb at $1600 or $1650, not a whole $300 more. This is coming from someone with a base M1 MBA with 8gb of ram, so i see the use case there, there is just no amount of justification to either A) sell a laptop at $1500 with 8gb of ram or B) sell that exact same laptop with an extra 8gb of ram for $1800.

                  • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 13:06

                    @doobey1231:

                    Yeah I dunno if I agree with that analogy tbh, mercedes isn't selling you cloth seats as a premium option.

                    Have you seen the price difference between a Corolla and C200?

                    then logic would say mercedes would give you leather and then some, considering the premium price

                    Yeah so Apple is giving you the stability and compatibility of the ecosystem, a much more novice-friendly UI, brand identity, along with the best support in the business. This may not be something you care about which is fine, but other people do want that, hence why Apple is so successful. You are not just buying the 8GB of RAM, you are paying for all the other stuff too.

                    It clearly works because people keep buying them.

                    • doobey1231 on 27/05/2024 - 13:42
                      +1

                      @1st-Amendment:

                      Have you seen the price difference between a Corolla and C200?

                      Thats not what was up for contention though, The discrepancy in your example is that Mercedes isn't selling cloth seats for the same price as a corolla with leather seats.

                      Yeah so Apple is giving you the stability and compatibility of the ecosystem, a much more novice-friendly UI, brand identity, along with the best support in the business. This may not be something you care about which is fine, but other people do want that, hence why Apple is so successful. You are not just buying the 8GB of RAM, you are paying for all the other stuff too.

                      See now you are reaching to justify Apples pricing. You can get the same level of stability at that price point in a windows pc, windows UI isn't difficult for a novice in the slightest, in fact it really comes down to what they've learned on, people don't pay for brand identity, its formed through the product they are selling. The only win out of that list is that their support is better, which is 100% true if you pay for apple care, which is on top of your purchase price, so you still lose because that cost is not incorporated into the device itself. If the device is out of warranty and you don't have apple care their pricing structure is so anti consumer that it works out almost always more viable to buy a new product(for example repairing the back glass on a 12PM costs almost as much as a brand new iphone 15 pro. There is absolutely no chance on this planet you can ever justify ram at $37.50 per gb for an upgrade.

                      What you are really paying for is being a part of the apple ecosystem, which is a genuine proposition to some, I am a part of it and the way their devices integrate really does make life easier. The thing we can take away from all this is that an 8gb ram macbook air is a perfectly adequate device for the target market - no one is arguing that. However the combination of the base costing $1500 and the upgrade making that a whopping $1800 is what makes apple the bad guys here, to reiterate, that's $1800 for a base model m2 MBA with an extra 8gb of ram. There's no extra ecosystem, no added support, the rest of the hardware remains the same, just 8gb more ram. If you go have a look at whats available at $1800 it makes this even worse.

                      We need to be honest with ourselves about this stuff, the argument against 8gb ram is silly, but justifying apples price point for that is equally silly. Id like to see either the ram upgrade reduced to $150-$200(which is more than fair on apple at $25/gb) OR, more adequately, the base price point to be dropped $100-$200 per unit.

                      Anyway if thats not enough theres dozens of tech videos which go into the real meat of the discussion to explain exactly why apples pricing structure is borderline predatory. Its like the premium version of when companies do the whole "starting at" but by the time you've actually got a half decent product youve spent an extra 50-75 percent of the base price. Again not arguing its existence, I believe it has a place, but I am arguing the pricing, which is objectively crap. As for the argument that "people keep buying them" - people do lots of things that aren't good for them, I wouldn't go making any decisions based on what other people do, history shows we are far from perfect when it comes to decision making.

                      • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 14:59
                        +1

                        @doobey1231:

                        The discrepancy in your example is that Mercedes isn't selling cloth seats for the same price as a corolla with leather seats.

                        No it's selling them for more, just like Apple does. Because you're not just buying a Merc for the seats, it's all the other stuff that justifies the price to it's target market. Some people choose to pay a premium for things they value, others don't see the same value and choose other things. I fail to see why this is a problem?

                        See now you are reaching to justify Apples pricing

                        No reaching required, I'm just explaining that whether you approve or disapprove, the pricing model clearly works since people continue to buy Macbooks and Merc's

                        but justifying apples price point for that is equally silly

                        Why is it silly if it works and people pay it?
                        If you don't like it don't buy it. If other people like it, they can choose how they spend their money.

                        Id like to see either the…

                        Good luck with that, let me know if Tim Cook gets back to you on your ideas.

                        theres dozens of tech videos which go into the real meat of the discussion to explain exactly why apples pricing structure is borderline predatory

                        The plural of anecdote is not data. There's a million Apple fanboys and a million Apple haters. And none of them affect Apple's product strategy.
                        There is only one test for this. If it's a free market, which it is, and people are buying it, which they are, then it works.

                        but I am arguing the pricing, which is objectively crap

                        Crap for you, and so you can choose to spend you money on other things. Hooray for free markets! But why do you think you should decide how other people spend their money?

                        • doobey1231 on 28/05/2024 - 08:17

                          @1st-Amendment: This was such a non response you may as well have saved the time and not responded at all, or simply put "well thats your opinion" and left it at that lol.

                          • 1st-Amendment on 28/05/2024 - 08:43
                            -1

                            @doobey1231: This was such a non response you may as well have saved the time and not responded at all, or simply put "well thats your opinion" and left it at that lol.

                            • Igaf on 28/05/2024 - 10:41
                              -2

                              @1st-Amendment: Some comments here concern recent, non-removable chips. Shoulder chips don't fit either category but evidently - and unsurprisingly - they still cause regular 'system blockages' and io errors. This deal might temporasrily help restore a small level of balance to people so afflicted.

            • pinchies on 27/05/2024 - 09:53
              +6

              @1st-Amendment: Because you need sufficient RAM:
              - for your PEAK need not your average need
              - because most people's computing needs increase rather than decrease
              - because software requirements increase over time
              - because external monitor screen resolutions are increasing and the VRAM is shared on these machines
              - because these machines are not upgradable and are expected / have the potential to last a long time (7-10 years)

              • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 10:37
                -5

                @pinchies:

                • for your PEAK need not your average need

                Depends. If you are peaking above 8GB once a month then a swap file works well

                • because most people's computing needs increase rather than decrease

                Do they? My usage hasn't changed in about ten years. Once everything went web and cloud it plateau'd considerably

                • because software requirements increase over time

                Cloud handles most of this.

                • because external monitor screen resolutions are increasing and the VRAM is shared on these machines

                Ok now you're just taking the piss.

                • because these machines are not upgradable and are expected / have the potential to last a long time (7-10 years)

                Are they? I replace my laptop every 2 years. My 8GB PC I've had for 10 years and is still fine for its daily tasks

            • Boodek on 27/05/2024 - 09:57
              +3

              @1st-Amendment: Actually, Macs will still use a swap regardless of how much RAM is used or left. I'm writing this on a M1 MacBook Air with 8Gb, and I'm using 6.76Gb and have a 3.32Gb swap file.

              • scarface on 27/05/2024 - 10:09
                +1

                @Boodek: Correct, and as for @1st-Amendment's comments, browsing and social media, I would then rather suggest spending less on an iPad (or more value for money Android tablets) for those purposes.

                As for the Swap, as MacOS is fundamentally using a Linux type kernel, if you have ever worked on Linux, you will notice that Linux uses the exactl oppisite of Windows by grabbing as much RAM as possible - I might be wrong on this but I am making the assumption as I haven't used a map in ages, and haven't run the "top" command either for a while. But as someone who opens a lot of tabs in Chrome, and use word or Acrobat PDF, I am pretty sure this machine would not be to my liking, even though I would admit that a good Macbook should last years. Because of my tardiness with open tabs, I even paid personally to upgrade my work XPS to 64GB, and all my other PCs have 64GB of memory.

                Horses for courses

              • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 10:38
                +3

                @Boodek:

                Macs will still use a swap regardless of how much RAM is used or left.

                I'm not initimate with all the workings of Apple architecture, but when a swap files get created it doesn't mean it is being used. The OS reserving space for use is not the same as actively using it.

              • Maximum64 on 27/05/2024 - 14:57
                +1

                @Boodek: Nah, not true. I've got 32GB in my M1 MBP and no swaps. Very rare that I see any unless churning Final Cut Pro and the likes.

                Not going to get into the pros and cons of 8GB for light use, but I certainly hardly see any swaps in general use.

              • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 10:44

                @SvcKpc:

                Nobody cares about your specific use case, champ. Get over yourself.

                You cared enough to give us this brain fart of a comment.

                8GB is nowhere near enough for a lot of people.

                Yet Apple sells millions of these every year. But you know better lol…

                  • doobey1231 on 27/05/2024 - 10:59
                    +2

                    @SvcKpc: I mean you are right there on the opposite side of the spectrum getting mad at a guy because they are suggesting that 8gb may be enough, and they aren't wrong either, evidence suggests that 8gb of ram really is enough for a base MBA user.

                  • RockyRaccoon on 27/05/2024 - 12:31

                    @SvcKpc: Or is it because as a number of times windows deal poster, you understand very well that os.

                    But a has always at least up to now needed far less ram than a PC to be usable.

                  • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 12:43
                    +3

                    @SvcKpc:

                    Yeah it's because of morons like you fall for the marketing

                    You know you have lost when you have to resort to personal attacks….

                    and get mad at people who dare to suggest 8GB ram is not enough for the price.

                    You are projecting. I am not getting mad, I'm merely exposing your lame non-argument.

                • Chiraag on 29/05/2024 - 16:21

                  @1st-Amendment: apple sells millions of everything .. lol.. doesn't make them know better!! … all about the money money money!!
                  :)

                  • 1st-Amendment on 29/05/2024 - 16:26
                    -1

                    @Chiraag:

                    apple sells millions of everything .. lol.. doesn't make them know better!!

                    It actually does. It is the only true measure of success in sales, how many you sell.
                    How many laptops have you sold so we may compare?

            • bunnybash on 27/05/2024 - 11:22
              +3

              @1st-Amendment: How are you only using 5gb? My M1 air uses 5gb without any apps open. It’s constantly using swap.

            • shegeloaf on 27/05/2024 - 11:43

              @1st-Amendment: Swap is used all the time even if you do not use the whole ssd. As soon as you utilise something more agresive it switches to swap.

              • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 12:23
                +2

                @shegeloaf:

                Swap is used all the time

                No it isn't. A Swap file a portion of storage space reserved for use by the OS in case available RAM is exceeded. If you are using < 8GB for the whole day, The swap file space will be reserved but it won't be used.

          • chrism238 on 27/05/2024 - 09:13
            +3

            @bananabendera: You do appreciate that 600 TBW for swap will take over 30 years under typical laptop usage?

            • bananabendera on 27/05/2024 - 10:42
              +1

              @chrism238: I do appreciate that only a tiny (tiny) portion of users would exceed the TBW. That was definitely a comment made in haste, there's a lot more to the story than unnecessary usage of the SSD on a ~$1400 device, and the argument's been beaten to death.

              It really all comes down to how year-on-year the most common software gets more memory intensive as features are added or processing gets offloaded client-side - the user has no control over that. On-device consumer marketed LLMs are also on the horizon, and 8GB is incredibly disappointing when your average joe (who doesn't know or care about memory management) expects their expensive laptop to last them 7+ years with reasonable performance.

          • guidedlight on 27/05/2024 - 09:15
            +2

            @bananabendera: It’s very rare for MacOS to swap with your disk.

            When memory availability is low, MacOS will start to compress memory. Apple silicon is very efficient at doing this, and it’s unlikely a user will notice it happening.

            Before swapping occurs, the user would normally receive a warning that memory is low.

            • Aureus on 27/05/2024 - 09:35
              +2

              @guidedlight: All modern OS have memory compression.

              MacOS is on par with Linux/Windows for memory management. Apple just has a better marketing team.

              • guidedlight on 27/05/2024 - 09:54
                +1

                @Aureus: I didn’t say that other OS’s didn’t have memory compression. All I said that it was rare for MacOS to swap to disk because of it.

                If your workload is light, there’s nothing wrong with 8Gb.

          • PennyPincher11 on 27/05/2024 - 10:43

            @bananabendera: When was the last time that happened?

          • idonotknowwhy on 27/05/2024 - 13:35

            @bananabendera: This comment, really needs to be added to every 8GB macbook deal posted here.

            It might look like "Chrome is slightly slower but still fast enough with 8GB", but if you monitor the swapping, it's happening a lot more often than with a 16GB macbook.

            The SSD chips are soldered directly onto the motherboard and have finite writes.

        • EitherWayUp on 27/05/2024 - 09:03
          +2

          People have always blown up at the perceived value proposition vs Windows based PC’s. Folks get their reviews from YouTube by folks who use their computers to render the videos they are putting up on YouTube and therefore would take advantage of more ram. For most folks, 8GB on a heavily efficient Mac is more than enough for their tasks. It’s not apples to apples comparison (excuse the pun). The way Apple handles ram vs Windows based PC’s is very different.

          • Gamer Dad Reviews on 27/05/2024 - 09:27

            @EitherWayUp: I honestly wonder what you “8gb is enough” people actually do with your computers.

            On my Macbook Pro 16 I’m coming into constant issues with 16GB of RAM and really regretting that I didn’t spec it with 32GB…

            • richadam on 27/05/2024 - 09:34

              @Gamer Dad Reviews: What applications are you using? How many apps at one time?

            • lookingforTV on 27/05/2024 - 09:35

              @Gamer Dad Reviews: I am in the same vote as you. Especially when silly WindowServer gets over 3gb..

            • slam on 27/05/2024 - 09:58
              +2

              @Gamer Dad Reviews: Im running a m2 mini with 24GB ram. Im hoving over 22GB consistently with all usual daily apps open. Mail clients, 50 chrome windows/tabs, calendar, stocks and work stuff.

              Overall if the mac is your daily, I would recommending getting 16GB.

              8GB is junk in 2024. To argue otherwise is being ignorant, unless you like a very sluggish machine that would eventually lock up.

              • EitherWayUp on 27/05/2024 - 10:06

                @slam: Why do you have 50 chrome tabs open. No one human needs this many chrome tabs at once. That is just diabolical.

                • slam on 27/05/2024 - 11:52

                  @EitherWayUp: Because its my daily and I never shutdown the mac.

                  With 6 virtual desktops, I have pages for entertainment, pages for work stuff, pages for sales stuff, pages for reddit etc etc. Its sectioned into logical use cases.

                  Plus a range of other apps (whatsapp, weather, calendar, email, stocks, dev studios, terminals, firefox, video players, the list goes on).. I dont mix work pages in tabs with personal stuff. And I can't be bothered to boot up the machine everytime and reload all of them. I have it all working and open ready to go anytime I come back to my desk.

              • derdew on 27/05/2024 - 12:04

                @slam: stop using chrome- it is a famous ram hog that has always been shit on Macs, and will never get better

                • slam on 27/05/2024 - 12:40

                  @derdew: I use chrome for a range of reasons, I wouldn't just avoid it because it uses a bit more ram.

                  I like Chrome synced across all my devices, I like the adblock features so Youtube loads with zero ads. Either way, I would pay the extra $300 for the extra 8GB of ram across the lifetime of the machine I use daily.

                  • derdew on 27/05/2024 - 14:04

                    @slam: if you insist on using it, then I'd get at least 32GB of ram frankly. it really is a piece of shit on Macs

            • ThithLord on 27/05/2024 - 10:15
              +1

              @Gamer Dad Reviews:

              I honestly wonder what you “8gb is enough” people actually do with your computers.

              Thanks for commenting without you, yourself, explaining just wtf you're doing to hit the 16GB ceiling.

              I need 16GB at least if it's a Windows machine at work.

              My home Media PC has 8GB and I don't have issues with that.

              • netsurfer on 27/05/2024 - 10:31

                @ThithLord: For work, my work supplied Macbook Pro with 16GB RAM is not enough. Another family member has a work supplied Macbook Pro, but with 36GB of RAM (which is more pleasant to use).

                If Macs are as great as you think, then they are being used for tasks we used to do on PCs, there is no software trick available to reduce RAM usage by 50%. The same apps we use on PCs is just as memory hungry on Macs.

                Don't forget, for Apple Silicon Macs, the RAM is also used for GPU. If you don't have enough RAM, you can forget about AI work.

                • nebakke on 27/05/2024 - 11:32
                  +1

                  @netsurfer:

                  there is no software trick available to reduce RAM usage by 50%.

                  I mean that's just plain wrong. There's no way to download more RAM - sure. But there's been a tendency I'm the software world, to disregard efficiency in favour of the blunt force of "more cheap hardware" for a very long time now.
                  Many of the tools you use every day aren't so much RAM intensive because they have to be but more because optimisation takes time and the release cycle is short so rely on Moore's law to name the product fast.

                  Apple has a bit more room to move there courtesy of owning the full stack. Is it enough to make 8GB twice as useful as on Windows, probably not, but it certainly works fine for the "daily driver" for most. My son does uni work, browsing, that sort of thing, gets done benefit of the M1 grunt for code compilation speeds and such. 8GB is fine for him.

                  It won't run many VMs, sure, but that's hardly the usecase for a MBA either, so we self-host for that kind of thing.

                  In the meantime I have an old Mac Mini with 4GB RAM running Linux, that hasn't missed a beat in almost 10 years, hosting a swathe of different services - likely quite a bit more than most as well.

                  It's all in what you do with it…

                  • netsurfer on 27/05/2024 - 13:31
                    +1

                    @nebakke: The RAM compression is about even Apple knows what it can do with RAM compression is limited and when it does over certain amount, even Apple knows it is putting pressure on the system.

                    There are more and more clickbait videos on YouTube so need to take some of those clickbait youTubers comments as grain of salt. Apple sourced the SSD and the controller from 3rd parties (hence the infamous SSD speed issue with M2 with entry level SSD storage). Screen is made by 3rd party too. MacOS is initially based on freeBSD. Apple designed the CPU, but it still relies on other 3rd parties. Thunderbolt 4 is still Intel's work.

                    RAM is RAM and this app developers should use squeeze more out of RAM because 8GB is plenty is fanboy talk. People don't write apps to go crazy on RAM. You do need to realise apps are getting more complex and there is more data that needs to be processed over time. What people do in schools are nothing compared to real world work. Sure, university undergrad projects won't use up much RAM to compile, but those are peanuts compared to a real world project. Even for Excel, for work, there is 100X more data with way more analysis. The difference is Pivot tables are often overkill for home usage, but is still quite limiting for work.

                    If someone is deep into Apple ecosystem and only have light computer usage, it is fine to get an MBA with 8GB RAM, but that CPU is clearly being under utilised.

                    Running linux on Mac Mini is a bit confusing. If Mac is so good at memory management (and the so called owning the full stack), then why use linux? Or, the base memory usage of Mac OS is something you don't want to waste? Anyway, it is relative. My now out of date Raspberry Pi 4 has 8GB of RAM and my super dated i3 mini PC from 2015 has 16GB of RAM since I bought it.

                    • nebakke on 27/05/2024 - 14:42
                      +1

                      @netsurfer:

                      The RAM compression is about even Apple knows what it can do with RAM compression is limited and when it does over certain amount, even Apple knows it is putting pressure on the system.

                      Huh? Memory compression isn't an Apple specific thing. It's part of good memory management in a high resource world. If you have CPU cycles doing nothing anyway, good design practice if to put them to good use.

                      Apple sourced the SSD and the controller from 3rd parties (hence the infamous SSD speed issue with M2 with entry level SSD storage). Screen is made by 3rd party too. MacOS is initially based on freeBSD. Apple designed the CPU, but it still relies on other 3rd parties. Thunderbolt 4 is still Intel's work.

                      I'm not sure what your trying to say here. Are you suggesting that because Apple didn't manufacture everything themselves the brand thing is just some sort of scam?
                      That's not how manufacturing works. Apple has been pretty open about using LG panels for example. The point is that they have a limited set of hardware to support, simplifying the process of writing software to support it.

                      RAM is RAM and this app developers should use squeeze more out of RAM because 8GB is plenty is fanboy talk.

                      It really is not. This has been an issue across the industry for decades now. Since Java won over most of the enterprise enterprise platforms. It introduced a paradigm of just throwing hardware at any performance problem. With that your development cycle becomes a lot faster because performance is "not my problem(tm)". Developers are not taught to optimise any more as it's seen as a low-value exercise.
                      It's not that increased complexity shouldn't have increased requirements, it's the rate at which it changes. Chrome's memory consumption for example, scales worse than Firefox' by about 30% at 20 tabs. In spite of essentially offering the same basic features. And Firefox is hardly the most efficient thing around.

                      If someone is deep into Apple ecosystem and only have light computer usage, it is fine to get an MBA with 8GB RAM, but that CPU is clearly being under utilised.

                      This is the point, use cases matter. 8GB is plenty for lots of people out there. Are they under utilising the CPU? Possibly, depends… Plenty of use cases require high CPU and ignore memory, though memory compression is a good example why it's not always as straightforward as you might like to think.

                      Running linux on Mac Mini is a bit confusing. If Mac is so good at memory management (and the so called owning the full stack), then why use linux?

                      I'm not sure why you think is confusing. It's hardware doing a job for me.
                      You seem to be of the misunderstanding that this is an "all our nothing" scenario - it isn't. The right tool for the right job.
                      Linux suits the server space much much better than MacOS, so I run it as a headless Linux box. It has been stable and meet the requirements - you may be surprised to hear I don't have an i-device either.
                      MacOS is not pure BSD and is becoming less so for every iteration, it doesn't do much of what I need - including running docker natively.

                • idonotknowwhy on 27/05/2024 - 13:37

                  @netsurfer:

                  Don't forget, for Apple Silicon Macs, the RAM is also used for GPU. If you don't have enough RAM, you can forget about AI work.

                  Which is precisely why the 64GB+ Silicon macs are so great for AI work.

            • doobey1231 on 27/05/2024 - 11:03
              +4

              @Gamer Dad Reviews: Base M1 MBA user here, social media browsing, the odd video render, emails and the odd word document. Never had an issue with space or programs and I often have 30+ chrome tabs running at the same time.

            • 1st-Amendment on 27/05/2024 - 12:53
              +2

              @Gamer Dad Reviews:

              I honestly wonder what you “8gb is enough” people actually do with your computers.

              You do know that different people use their computers for different things?
              This PC I'm on now I have two browsers open with about a dozen tabs open, including some Youtube, Slack and Spotify and I've just ticked over 6GB usage.

              For me on this machine 8GB is enough. I 'support' various family members with their devices and they run similar patterns. I used to manage an IT dept and observed the same patterns. Yes a small percentage of power users do need more CPU/RAM, but 90% of users don't (in my experience). Apple know this too hence why the sell these things by the million. I would argue that their target market for MBA is students who are mostly doing Word and email. For that 8GB is fine. If you are a power user, this is not for you.

          • netsurfer on 27/05/2024 - 10:24
            +2

            @EitherWayUp: For people who really use Mac for serious work, 8GB is not enough. Honestly, even 16GB is not enough. My work supplied Mac, due to lack of RAM (16GB only), uses swap a lot. The SSD (which is only 512GB) has over 720TBW written due to swap. You can really feel it when Mac is using swap.

            Memory compression has its limit. Furthermore, as soon as too much of it is in used, Mac does show the memory pressure is increasing.

            13.75GB RAM used, ~41% RAM in compressed form, Green
            13.63GB RAM used, ~47% RAM in compressed form, Yellow

            RAM is RAM, in fact, Mac's RAM is used for GPU as well. There are Mac apps which use up a lot of memory and don't release RAM efficiently.

        • ScruffTheJanitor on 27/05/2024 - 09:33
          +7

          It's not that 8GB is unusable or anything, it's that RAM is SO CHEAP right now and these expensive MacBook Airs still have the same baseline of RAM they did in 2017! In 7 years!

        • axyh on 27/05/2024 - 10:00
          +2

          You may only be using 8GB, but many people have workloads that need more (video editing, memory-hungry software development tasks, running Linux VMs, working with local LLMs, astrophotography… and that’s just me).

          I bought into the “8GB is enough for anyone, the M-series processors work differently” nonsense, then after having my laptop freeze repeatedly with out of memory errors, I gave it to my wife and bought a 16GB MacBook Air. It’s been fantastic.

          If you’re using the laptop for basic productivity tasks, then 8GB is enough. But the memory constraints are an issue for people who use a lot of RAM. The processor architecture doesn’t change that.

          • EitherWayUp on 27/05/2024 - 10:05
            +4

            @axyh: You legitimately summed up my reasoning why 8GB is enough for a lot of people. If you need more for higher workloads, get 16 or more.

            • axyh on 27/05/2024 - 10:15
              +4

              @EitherWayUp: I agree, my objection is to the repeated internet claim that Macs manage memory better, making 8GB magically sufficient in cases where it would otherwise be problematic.

              Against all logic, I bought into this, and the whole idea was as obviously wrong as it sounds. Luckily I could give my 8GB MacBook Air to my wife and buy a more suitable Mac.

              If you’re dealing with large objects in memory, allocating large amounts of memory on the heap, then RAM is RAM. The processor architecture doesn’t change that.

              If your workloads need 16GB on Windows or Linux, they will almost certainly require 16GB on a Mac.

        • ATangk on 27/05/2024 - 10:18
          -2

          This just tells me that you in no way needed an M2 in your MBA. That chip is overpowered for any task that uses up to 8Gb RAM.

      • dragonfly090 on 27/05/2024 - 09:10
        -2

        OP Needs for his daughter in school. Not a gamer or a heavy data processing.

      • Flying Ace on 27/05/2024 - 09:11
        +9

        The vast majority of people who would buy a MacBook Air wouldn't need more than 8gb - so this argument is just tired now.

        • ZJack on 27/05/2024 - 09:48
          +6

          My wife was given a work MacBook Air M1 with 8gb ram. She had Slack, Spotify and a few browser tabs including things like Gmail, Google Drive, Maybe 1-2 other heavier webpages along those lines and then a few lightweight normal sites. Her machine basically ground to a halt, things were taking so long to open. Constantly out of ram.

          She used it like this for about 6 months until her bosses took a look at it and decided to upgrade her to an M1 MacBook Pro with 16GB. She’s never had an issue since.

          I know the MBP has more processing power but it seems it was the memory pressure that was causing the issue beforehand.

          My point is that I just don’t think she was a heavy user, that’s a pretty normal usage scenario. I get that apps like Slack aren’t memory efficient but there’s many electron apps out there, and the above user’s point of view is that 8GB isn’t future-proofing enough. Even if you can just scrape by now, your apps might get less efficient over the coming years even if your usage doesn’t change.

          • doobey1231 on 27/05/2024 - 11:05
            +1

            @ZJack: I find it really odd that I have literally the exact same use case and device and have not once experienced a stutter or slow down, even tacking on the odd video edit, and I am extremely messy with my chrome tabs..

            • ZJack on 27/05/2024 - 15:20

              @doobey1231: I'm genuinely curious, have spoken to her and tried to figure out what our differences might be.

              • She was using Safari rather than Chrome, I'm not sure if in 2021 Safari had good tab performance management?
              • She added Trello website and Zoom app to the list, noting that Trello, Gmail, Google Drive were always pinned tabs in Safari.
              • She was using it with an external monitor mostly, but she thinks the memory issues happened even when she was using it without the external monitor.
              • Is yours M1 MBA too? Maybe later chips did a better job as well?

              She continued with the exact same workflow on the MBP and didn't have any issues.

              • doobey1231 on 27/05/2024 - 16:10
                +1

                @ZJack: I did use safari then moved to chrome for ease of extensions but recently went back to safari with no issues. I don't use trello on my mac but do use it on my windows pc, and have found it to be a bit boggy but nothing too crazy. and only use the display itself, no external displays.

                First generation M1 MBA, one of the very first. I bought it primarily as a "first apple silicon" and then secondary as a new laptop :P.

                Do you have google drive installed on the computer or just use the browser version? that's another aspect that kinda came up actually on my windows machine as bogging things down.

                Its so weird, we are not alone either I have done heaps of research and the opinions are so varied, like people with heavier use cases than us running fine and people with lighter use cases than us getting bogged down. Im running out of ideas, beginning to think its just silicon lottery? But you wouldn't think the deviation would be that intense..

                • ZJack on 27/05/2024 - 16:16

                  @doobey1231: Hmm interesting insight thanks for sharing. I don’t think she used Google Drive integration on the laptop, just via browser, and I don’t think Trello itself was any slower than the rest of the laptop. It was a small company too so no organisational installs managing the laptop, mostly stock installed apps. No VPN either as far as I’m aware.

                  I was thinking of recommending a MBA to my parents who are still using a 10yo Samsung laptop. It needs to run Zoom, an external display and a few websites that are on the heavier side … as a result of my experiences, I couldn’t recommend the 8GB model to them because I just don’t know if it’d be enough, or if it’d be good for another 10 years for their usage. With 16GB I’d be more confident.

                  I think that’s where a lot of people’s recommendation against the 8GB comes from - uncertainty

                  • mrjk on 02/06/2024 - 13:54

                    @ZJack: @doobey1231 @ZJack Just want to chime in here with my own experience. I'm a photographer / graphic designer and was also an early adopter of the M1 MBA coming from my 15in Intel MBP.

                    In the first month of owning and using the M1 MBA, I wanted to throw it across the room. I thought I had made the biggest mistake moving on from my Intel MBP. Web browsers were sluggish and it severly struggled to run the Adobe suite, Lightroom, Photoshop, Illustrator etc. which were all crucial for me.

                    After doing research, I diagnosed the problem as a lack of RAM. Checking activity monitor, memory pressure was always through the roof and I always thought, if only I upgraded to the 16gb model it would solve all my problems.

                    However, a couple months later more and more of the apps were eventually updated for Apple Silicone and ARM and I'm still using the same M1 MBA with 8gb ram to run my whole business today and it's still going strong. I'm only here now because I've accidentally cracked the screen…

                    I think a lot of the varied opinions are from people with the same experience as me, early adopters of the 8gb variant, and trying to run x86 apps early on through rosetta was just horrible. I think now that Apple Silicone and the apps have matured, it is a VERY different experience. I wonder what the numbers of complaints are for current users as opposed to the early adopters.

      • J1990T on 27/05/2024 - 09:13
        +1

        I agree with tighy

      • kogi on 27/05/2024 - 09:19
        +4

        All my macs have 16gb. But I think at this price it's ok just for the service.

        I just took my 3yr old ipad pro in for a small issue. I do have applecare+ and they replaced it with a refurb.
        But the tech told me there is another 2 year statuary warranty on it.
        Well worth what I paid for everything

      • 87percent on 27/05/2024 - 09:25
        +1

        People that are buying MBA, don’t generally need more than 8gb of ram.

      • kaikor on 27/05/2024 - 09:26
        +4

        I am still using my 12 yrs old 2012 macbook pro with just 8gb ram and the original hdd inside, so definitely NOT a joke & as eddyah said, already over 10 yrs lifetime in my case !!! If not that a 16" pro so expensive, I will sure buy another one to last it another 15+ yrs !!!

        • nightelves on 27/05/2024 - 11:25

          The Macbook Pro M1 ex-display is going for $1517 at OW Frankston atm.

          • kaikor on 27/05/2024 - 11:37

            @nightelves: Yeah saw that, but unless I gonna buy a ticket, fly down to Vic and hopefully able to buy one there if they still have leftovers …

            • nightelves on 27/05/2024 - 11:43

              @kaikor: You can pay for one over the phone and have 30 days to pickup if that helps.

      • doobey1231 on 27/05/2024 - 09:29
        +2

        It is a joke, but a MBA is usable with 8gb of ram, provided the base MBA is almost entirely focused towards consumers that do internet browsing the odd email and word document. These apple made chips are crazy efficient with memory usage.

        Still, I would strongly recommend against buying one with 8gb of ram just for longevity sake, 8gb fine now but there is definitely a ticking clock when it comes to 8gb being a reasonable starting point.

      • sauce2k on 27/05/2024 - 09:31

        8GB is a joke or not, what do you do with it?

      • rabid_monkey on 27/05/2024 - 09:59
        +2

        Is it rampant profiteering? Yes. Is it a joke for the >90% of users that just use this for light web work, office apps and photo editing? No. I’d say I’m a heavier user than most and I use a MBA M1 with 8gb of ram. Most people won’t care that when you have 50tabs open and you switch to an old one it sometimes needs to reload. Coming from a windows laptop the overall responsiveness, rock solid stability, and battery life blows them away.
        Now that we finally have the ARM windows PCs coming out with the Snapdragon processors, I might be able to recommend them instead. But for most people a 8gb M series MBAs will last for >5years and if you have an iPhone the integration is just silky smooth.

      • theguyrules on 27/05/2024 - 10:06

        Agreed - I have a co-worker who had to sell their M3 Macbook Air due to the 8gb of ram not being enough for their office work, which is entirely browser based (but a lot of tabs).

      • rhyme324 on 27/05/2024 - 10:20
        +1

        8gb is a joke for windows. not that bad for mac.

      • gingerscale on 27/05/2024 - 10:49
        +1

        With current SSD performance of 1gbps +, youd hardly notice the page file being used to swap whats in memory. For basic usage (most peoples requirements) 8gb will be enough for a long time to come

      • shabaka on 27/05/2024 - 11:40
        +1

        let me put it this way. as a "missus" machine or a kid machine - it's totally fine, and will probably last this long indeed. hell, even a lot of other folks don't go past web browsing and media consumption which this thing will be totally fine for.

        if someone needs to edit videos on a regular basis, or even edit photos, or work with large spreadsheets, will not likely consider this anyway, and rightfully shouldn't.

        disclaimer: I am an Apple hater, I work for Microsoft aligned company, there are no apple devices in my household except for missus iPhone which I tolerate, and my MacBook Pro with M1 Pro and 16/1TB which I chose because of reasons (Windows laptops suck for photo / video editing and battery life)

        • ThithLord on 28/05/2024 - 15:27

          I am an Apple hater, I work for Microsoft aligned company, there are no apple devices in my household except for missus iPhone which I tolerate, and my MacBook Pro with M1 Pro and 16/1TB which I chose because of reasons (Windows laptops suck for photo / video editing and battery life)

          I did not expect to see the admission of your daily-driver being a Mac, lol. Thanks for sharing m8

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