Looking at current prices of used tesla's and brand new tesla's quiet a huge drop in price from new to old.
I know by owning an EV you save on fuel….but buying them brand new and losing $20,000-$25,000 after 3 years of ownership makes little sense or does it? So my question is.
What do you exactly save?
Are you just making one of the greatest scammers Elon rich or you are actually saving money?
@Euphemistic: Lots of modern cars are logging a heck of a lot of data about your driving habits and the car.
The transition between manual control and adaptive cruise control is very, very smooth. Many other cars have a bit of jerky transition when you swap between the two, but Tesla just picks up naturally.
I must be doing something wrong then, how are you supposed to do it? If you dont have your foot on the accelerator it kinda pulls back a bit unless you get the foot pressure right especially if you are cancelling via the brakes and need to move your foot back to the accelerator pedal
Yeah that’s what I mean.
Say I am cruising along on adaptive cruise control at 61km/h then see a red light in the distance. I swipe up on my right stalk and gently press the accelerator pedal. Tesla gets it just right - almost every time this handover from auto to manual is almost imperceptible - if you are a passenger with your eyes closed you wouldn’t have felt that there’s a change from cruise control to manual.
With Kia this is different. I do the same when I change over from auto to manual but there’s NEVER once it does it smoothly. There’s ALWAYS either a sudden dip before I can pick up on my pedal, or if I compensate on my pedaling too much the speed bumps up a bit before I can slow it again.
The exact same phenomenon is observed when going from manual to auto. Smooth and imperceptible in Tesla, jerky in Kia.
Obviously this is a small thing but for someone who likes adaptive cruise control all the time Tesla’s smoothness is very apparent at least compared to Kia.
Good answer.
The tech in the Tesla's are unmatched. If you enjoy settings and playing with them, phone control, sentry mode, vehicle and battery statistics etc. this is the car for you. It's like the android mobile of cars.
Petrol savings is great. Giving the middle finger to every petrol station you drive past is priceless.
"It's like the android mobile of cars."
Ironically they don't support Android Auto though, in my BYD I just use that, so the rest of the UI becomes a bit more irrelevant. I imagine if the base UI was better than android auto you would be more inclined to use that though.
Yes that's correct, AA was created to allow people to escape from poorly designed infotainment systems and GPS.
Yea they don't support AA but like you said, it's irrelevant. It would be nice if it had more apps though.
I am curious, have you tested to see if your speedo is accurate? I do hate how all the ICE cars when doing 104km/h on the speedo, you're actually doing 100km/h.
Tesla speedo figure is around 2-3% higher than actual speed (when compared to Waze) which is why I have it set the adaptive cruise control to +3% speed limit so that I am driving at the speed limit in reality. On top of that each state law enforcement has an additional leeway of how much you can go over before they fine you.
walk to the car with your phone on you and the car unlocks itself.
Can the Tesla be operated, without any possession of the mobile phone?
Is there ever a situation, where you need Tesla cloud account or a sign-in to an app, to operate the Tesla car ?
They give you an RFID card which you can tap on the driver side’s B pillar to unlock or lock the car. So technically you don’t need the app to drive Tue car.
They give you an RFID card
Does this RFID have any 'attachment' to a person's identity.
ie. is it just a generic "key" to open/access the car ?
@whyisave: No, works just like any other key. You can also assign multiple key cards or fobs to the same car.
@unison: "any other key" ?
Any other key is a piece of metal cut, that unlocks the barrel of the lock.
A lot of cars don't even have this key-lock mechanism, and it's just a button press of a FOB with short-range 'radio wave'.
Neither of these, are tied to my identity and I can give the key or key-FOB to someone, without worrying about them ruining my 'reputation',..unless they have an accident, haha.
Then again, I am also not paying for them to use the car, whereas with the EV, there is a per-kilometre tax (from this year?)
whereas with the EV, there is a per-kilometre tax (from this year?)
I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that has a road user charge for EVs.
A few different states have tried but they have been struck down by the courts.
I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that has a road user charge for EVs.
Yes, you're right.
There is currently none, in NSW.
I knew of such a user-charge, coming in, a couple of years ago.
I didn't know that it was struck down by the courts.
However, this proposal exists for 2027 onwards …
https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/nsw-gov…
A road user charge will apply to eligible EVs from 1 July 2027 or when EVs make up 30 per cent of all new vehicle sales, whichever comes first.
Plug-in hybrid EVs will be charged a fixed 80 per cent proportion of the full road user charge to reflect their vehicle type.
The road user charge rate is indexed to consumer price index each financial year.
The road user charge rate for the 2024-25 financial year will be:
• 2.906 cents per kilometre for a battery EV or hydrogen fuel cell EV
• 2.324 cents per kilometre for a plug-in hybrid EV
However, this proposal exists for 2027 onwards …
Did you read the notes at the bottom of the page you linked?
The decision in Vanderstock v. The State of Victoria (2023) (“Vanderstock”) determined that the Victorian Government’s Zero and Low Emission Vehicle Distance-based Charge Act was invalid.
The NSW Government is working to assess the potential implications of the decision for NSW’s electric vehicle road user charge.
The short version is that the court's decision in VIC means that the NSW legislation is also invalid. State governments do not have the constitutional authority to introduce a road user charge of any kind - this is the sole preserve of the Federal Government.
Given the complexity involved with vehicle and ownership records being held by the states, a road user change would also require agreement and cooperation from the federal government and all states and territories to implement.
It might happen eventually, but it's going to be a long and difficult process, and the Federal Government may find it easier to obtain additional revenue in other ways and let the petrol tax remain to incentivize EV adoption.
Both phone and account are optional, although warranty registration might be tricky without an account.
The standard key is a card. An account is necessary for accessing Supercharger and for cloud features.
So, to access the car's features, it needs to be tied to a person's personal details, right ?
I was just trying to clarify this part.
I was trying to find out, if there's any part of the process of owning/operating a Tesla car, is there is a need to link an identity to the car and the company.
I didn't think about EVs at all last week, but I went to the EV auto-show last weekend, and just curious about such things, but I forgot to ask questions at the Tesla stand and ran out of time.
@whyisave: My understanding is that you technically don't need an account to own and drive the car.
You would miss out on a lot of useful features though.
@klaw81: Yeah,…the process of electrifying everything in one's life, is ultimately giving up "control" and exchanging convenience for this.
Having something always tethered or 'connected' for software, or permission to use money, or just plugged into something ALL of the time, is just a concern of many….but maybe, we can all be like Neo and download kung-fu skillz in 30-seconds soon enough !
the process of electrifying everything in one's life, is ultimately giving up "control" and exchanging convenience for this
This is crazy conspiracy theory talk.
There is nothing unique about electrification that allows greater control of the population. These features can and have been added to ICE vehicles.
I understand that some are concerned about the loss of privacy associated with greater connectivity, but it's absolutely unrelated to electrification and is merely a coincidence.
There is nothing unique about electrification that allows greater control of the population
Yes, you are right.
I meant, the internet connectivity aspect of it, and not uniquely 'electrification'.
I use cassette decks and drills, … and none of them are connected to being data harvesting, even though they are powered by electricity !
Nowadays, a person's movement, the medications, the financial expenditure, the items spent on, the communication, the habits, the conversations, what the eyeballs dwell on, etc. etc… are just being captured, analyzed and strategised. So, it's just getting dystopian.
I'm positive you are making a big mistake.
You never save anything buying a car, they're an expense that depreciates.
You never save anything buying pants either, but sometimes you need to spend money to get through life. The question is whether it makes more sense than other cars. I assume OP knows if they need a car or not.
Also it's an asset that depreciates. Expenses you spend and are gone (unless it's Homer's giant sandwich).
I just saying you don’t save money buying cars. It an expense not a saving.
For a daily driver, yes. But for a weekend/enthusiast car, no.
Purchased a 2004 Mitsubishi Evolution 8 MR for $29,000 in 2012. It's got genuine 43,000km on it and you tell me how much it's going for now. $70k+
Yeah that’s different. OP is talking about boring mass produced cars. I made money selling my SS commodore. I shouldn’t have sold my old HSV….
Yep. All HSVs have gone up in value. A friend of mine has the VZ with Walkinshaw supercharger which he bought for $25k some 8yrs ago. It's worth a lot more now.
@Brick Tamland: I remember when I was a kid on a school bus in the mid to late 90s, I used to think they were the coolest cars. There were plenty at the time but now it's like finding a unicorn. As we always say, could've, should've etc. life goes on.
@gezza90: Even VF SS commodores have disappeared off the roads, people are keeping the locked up now. VR/VS was one of the best looking HSV's ever made. Different enough from stock SS but not too over the top
brand new tesla's quiet a huge drop in price
Sssh 🤐
It's nice to own brand new things. But if Teslas in Australia really are overvalued, then there are other EVs you can choose from these days.
They were definitely a rip off before. However, with the latest price drop to $61k, they are a fair price for electric cars now. I doubt BYD's Sealion 7 could do much better next year, maybe $58k or so given that their plug in hybrid car is $52k drive away. Regardless, all EVs are too expensive if you are looking to save money. Unless you drive 50,000km+/year with no mortgage, there's no way you're going to save money vs buying an equivalent ICE/conventional hybrid car.
You forgot about novated lease…
buying them brand new and losing $20,000-$25,000 after 3 years of ownership makes little sense or does it?
Ever bought a new car? This isn't a Tesla thing
I can buy a lot of petrol with $20k for the car that I already own and runs perfect.
Amazing deduction there, Sherlock.
Generally speaking, yes, the cheapest car is the one you already own.
Lmao you're a genius
The thing is once you daily drive a Tesla or any other decent ev you don’t want to drive an ice car again. An ice car are terrible to drive. I can go on.i would only drive an ice car once a week on a Sunday.
There's nothing wrong with ICE cars, especially hybrid ones which offer the best of both worlds. EV cars are over priced and inferior if you want to drive on the highway, tow anything or drive off road. You'll never recoup your money vs buying an equivalent hybrid car unless you drive 50,000km+/year.
There's nothing wrong with ICE cars,
Except the noise, heat, fumes that come out the back and waste oil every 6-12 months.
As for 50k er year to break even, you havent done your sums.
Except the noise, heat, fumes that come out the back and waste oil every 6-12 months.
That's describing the equipment and effort to dig holes in the ground for all minerals needed (eg. lithion, cobalt, rare earths, etc.)
If you are not digging for coal, you are still digging for something, which itself is an energy-intensive and "polluting" activity.
@whyisave: While its true that digging for materials for EVs is not great for the environment, the materials are largely recyclable. Fossil fuels are single use only. Dig em up and burn em.
IF you are buying a new car, an EV is better for the environment in the long term. The layback for additional energy to create it is as little as 2 years depending on a bunch of factors. Probably closer to 4 years. After that, an ICE will continue to pollute. an EV can be run on renewable energy, but an ICE never can be.
In Australia particularly, the energy grid is becoming increasingly provided for by renewables that create very little pollution.
@Euphemistic: Yeah usually after the 20k-60k mark the EV starts to pollute less in terms of overall emissions.
The only issue I have with recycling is when you factor in cost, even though materials are 100% recyclable, they usually aren't (yet) - like how we used to ship our recyclables to China and when they stopped accepting, we started shipping to Indonesia and when they stopped accepting, we started to store our recyclables in massive warehouses. REDcycle and others closed shop.
China's been on the EV path for longer than most countries and they massive car graveyards where materials are 100% recyclable but in reality they just sit there.
The only issue I have with recycling is when you factor in cost, even though materials are 100% recyclable, they usually aren't
I think we can expect this to be changed by legislation in Australia and Europe in the near future. There are already proposals to enforce recycling of solar panels etc.
@klaw81: Yeah but it still needs to be economically feasible - Government can subsidize but that's just passing costs onto the younger/next generation.
If you are not digging for coal, you are still digging for something, which itself is an energy-intensive and "polluting" activity.
Digging for coal and oil are the 2nd and 3rd largest mining activities in the world. Extracting and purifying these 2 commodities use a vast amount of energy. Transporting fossil fuels accounts for over 40% of all shipping worldwide. The sheer scale of this operation cannot be overstated, especially when you consider that almost every gram of fossil fuels will disappear in a puff of smoke, creating air and water pollution, and is 0% recyclable.
In comparison, the level of mining required to create batteries and electric motors for EVs is absolutely miniscule. And the materials required for these items are ~97% recyclable and can be re-used a near-infinite number of times.
That this is even being highlighted as a potential negative is deeply dishonest.
That this is even being highlighted as a potential negative is deeply dishonest.
What is 'deeply dishonest' about saying this ?
If you are not digging for coal, you are still digging for something, which itself is an energy-intensive and "polluting" activity.
There's no dishonesty, and it can't be deep, because it wasn't dishonest to begin with.
I wasn't even bad-mouthing EVs to begin with,…because I admire the engineering behind it.
I just don't like the loss of privacy, anonymity, dependence of apps, screens,…etc…. and also for Australia, there are still some current risks for driving long distance, etc.
What is 'deeply dishonest' about saying this?
This was directed at the oft-repeated claims about the scale of mining activities required for EV batteries, and the environmental impact of these activities.
It's obviously true that mining is required to build EVs, and that minerals need to be processed, refined etc before manufacturing, and that these processes require energy. That claim is not dishonest in itself. However, the scale of mining associated with EV manufacturing is vastly overstated, and it absolutely pales in comparison with enormity of extraction, refining and transport supply chain for oil that is the lifeblood of every ICE.
It is fundamentally dishonest to express concern about the environmental impact of EVs, without considering the much larger environmental impact of the oil industry that EVs are replacing. Such concerns are crocodile tears at best, when the end result is such a large and significant improvement.
In fairness to you, you didn't make any false claims yourself; you only alluded to those claims. I have addressed them many times, pointing out how wrong they are, and it's a little frustrating to see such falsehoods persisting.
In fairness to you, you didn't make any false claims yourself; you only alluded to those claims.
Geez,…upon receiving your judgement of 'fairness' towards me, even I don't know what claims I only alluded to, in spite of having made no false claims myself.
I mean, even humans digging and unsettling the environment, changes the environment, but I guess humans have been changing, polluting and 'disturbing' their environment since Adam & Eve.
That's a moot point, as it's a claim that cannot be proven.
The thing about oil and all of the direct by-products of oil, is that it's in so many facets of our lives.
Bitumen on the road, comes from oil.
The plastics inside a car (steering wheel, dashboards, etc. etc.), comes from oil.
Oil is powering all of the industries needed to produce the steel for the car, the bridges, road barriers, traffic lights, street lights. Other industries are mining for silica for the glass needed for windows, windscreens, etc.
Decoupling from oil is going to take a long time, as well as lowering the intensity of the energy required in those industries.
Energy still needs to be harnessed from from somewhere.
I'm not promoting oil either. This is the as-is, post-industrial revolution.
Another thing is that OPEC are a powerful cartel, ie. their "power" comes from the resources they hold and how this sways the geo-politics in the world.
So, for countries XYZ that don't want to be beholden to demands of such blocs of 'resistance' for any ideological or political setbacks at the UN, Security Council, etc… those XYZ countries would want to weaken the demand for oil, and over time, wish that these OPEC countries become less 'powerful'.
One could say XYZ would love to lobby and create propaganda, where their 'enemy' country becomes weaker, and maybe promoting anti-oil solutions is in that game-plan.
Maybe the OPEC countries also know their oil will run out, so they are pivoting and trying to beat this, by investing in different forms of energy technologies, and they themselves want EVs to be popular, because these OPEC countries have already invested EV shares or EV technologies, and they want their investments to pay dividends.
I don't know.
I'm just openly surmising.
I just know that energy is transferred from state to state, and nothing is ever "non-polluting", because there will be disagreements of what pollution is and the levels of pollution tolerated, eg. would polluting waterways from EV battery production be causing less pollution than driving ICE cars ?
Everything we need is coming from this Earth, via a hole in the ground or chopping down what's above the ground.
It all requires energy.
Replacing the 'type' of energy for a car, may not resolve the limitless appetite for energy, because humans are basing their entire existence on electricity more and more (eg. data-centres, Internet redundancies, EVs, etc.)
I mean, look at all the smug commenters who use chopped trees to wipe their exit-hole and then talk about ICE cars, EVs, the environment.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
What do you exactly save?
Tough one.
People will make all kinds of excuses to buy something they like. It is like DJT media worth billions in market cap when it only have $3m pa of revenue.
People will make all kinds of excuses to buy something they like
Yep. I personally know a lot of Tesla owners who say it's for the "environment aspect" but then don't do anything else environmentally friendly in their lives.
Lol you just described my family members will drive to the cafe that's a 5 minute walk away, meanwhile going on about 'the environment'.
buying them brand new and losing $20,000-$25,000 after 3 years of ownership
Most new cars in the $60-80k range have a similar drop after 3 years of ownership. So while it looks crazy, cars are a depreciating asset.
What do you exactly save?
Tesla is fuel costs if you can charge at home cheaply and servicing costs.
Are you just making one of the greatest scammers Elon rich or you are actually saving money?
If the product is good enough for you to part $60k plus on and you're happy with, is he really a scammer?
All new cars lose value… You save a bit on convenience with being able to charge at home and Tesla does offer a seamless experience with their charging but there is a lot of downsides since they're cost cutting - no indicator stalks, no proper gear selector, no ultrasonic sensors, and people complain of them being cheap. In terms of energy efficient EVs, they're the top contender.
Ideally, you should get the long range version which comes with the NCM battery versus the standard range LFP battery.
NCM batteries the ones that catch fire rather than the very stable LFP batteries
yeah, thanks for the extra info. I got distracted with other things when I drafted that. Same size, but more energy dense and less charge cycles with NCM.
NCM supposedly only charge to 80% regularly to avoid degradation, but LFP battery ok to charge to 100% - so the less charge cycles is negated. Unless you are regularly doing long trips and need the full 100% charge of the NCM battery, the LFP battery is a better choice for a daily driver.
Real talk - neither of them catch fire, statistically. EV fires are mostly a meme and are extremely rare, regardless of chemistry.
But yes, LFP batteries are supposed to be even less prone to fire.
Generally speaking, the plastic housing for a LFP prismatic cell is more flammable than the cell itself.
Agree it was a cost decision, but the Tesla argument is LESS parts = higher reliability.
That statement is correct and relates to all EVs.
Drivers of the new model 3, say it takes a very short time for the brain to adapt, and don't miss the stalk whatsoever. Some even prefer due to the AUTO cancelation built into the software.
Personally I would prefer a stalk, and don't recall having any reliability issues with stalks.
I don't understand why people become so obsessed with these questions - you can literally find extended discussions on every single Tesla-related thread here addressing all of your questions.
To summarise:
Looking at current prices of used tesla's and brand new tesla's quiet a huge drop in price from new to old. I know by owning an EV you save on fuel….but buying them brand new and losing $20,000-$25,000 after 3 years of ownership makes little sense or does it? So my question is.
This sort of price drop is not remarkable for a car that is around the price of a Tesla. Have a look at any other car which is priced around the $60-70,000 mark, and you will find that them being $45-50,000 after 3-4 years is not uncommon.
Yes, depreciation on a Tesla is high, but you would have been paying an early adopter tax over the past few years, and increased competition (e.g. from BYD and others) have forced prices down.
High depreciation is not necessarily a bad thing - if you were after a Tesla, you could get a 2021-ish Model 3 for < $40,000 which represents fantastic value.
Also other benefits which people may value aside from purely financial - e.g. convenience of not having to go to petrol stations, being a very smooth and quiet car to drive…etc.
What do you exactly save?
Depends on your own personal situation, including how much you pay for electricity and how much you drive.
If you can take advantage of solar where you practically have zero feed-in tariffs these days, then it could be a huge savings. I used to pay around $90 per week for fuel (so around $5,000 per year).
I now charge my EV for free by using solar, so that is already a $5k savings per year.
Are you just making one of the greatest scammers Elon rich or you are actually saving money?
Who cares about Elon Musk - you should buy the product that works best for you. If his antics bother you that much, then it's not like there is a shortage of other EV brands to consider.
What car did you use to have and how many kms did you drive/year in order to rack up a $5k/year fuel bill? I drive 10,000km/year and it only costs me $860/year in petrol with premium 95. I'd have to drive 60,000km/year in my Haval H6 Ultra hybrid to rack up a $5k fuel bill annually lol? My car is $19k cheaper than a Tesla and it'll save me $2k/year if I leave the difference in my mortgage offset account which gives me free fuel for life.
What a dumb ass post. This is just "why do people buy new cars?" With some Tesla rage bait. Go outside, touch grass.
You're just frustrated that he sniffed your rage bait post buddy. At least gitgud if you really want to be a hater for example by pointing out he's recent $20 billion net worth surge and many more to come after lobbying Trump with $125 million.
Yeah this is a silly rage bait post going off your comment history. What’s really funny though is just how mad you’d genuinely be Trump won and that Elon has more success in the poops he takes than you’ll have in your entire life. I’m happy knowing how upset you’re going to be for the next 4 to 20 years. No need to reply. You’ve already lost.
You are part of a larger group of sheeple?
sheepla
You become another minion to Elon!
you can start a youtube channel and start praising tesla with clickbait thumbnails
The depreciation part is expected. It is the RRP falling every couple of months that isn’t usual compared to other brands.
Thinly veiled Tesla hate post. Nobody’s forcing you to buy a new car, or a new Tesla mate. Just buy what you want.
People say Tesla owners are insufferable. It’s actually the reverse - people who hate on Elon, hate Tesla, hate on EVs find any excuse to tell you their point of view.
PS cars are a depreciating asset. And in same price bracket the drops are similar.
I don't hate EV.
I actually like the idea, no fuel to pay for ever again.
No fuel is a bonus, the biggest benefit is the limited maintenance required. As someone with real bad luck with second hand petrol cars, the lack of car related stress has been the greatest benefit by far. Novated lease optimizes the fiscal benefits. But its a luxury, don't kid yourself any other way.
Dont give Elon Musk your money. They buy batteries from BYD, i would rather buy that - it is cheaper.
They buy batteries from different companies depending on region
I've driven Teslas, Polestars and BYD Attos, the BYD was by far the worst driving experience.
What do you think of Polestars ?
Great driving experience, tech is worse than Tesla's, but it allows CarPlay and Android Auto. BYD's on the other hand is laggy and buggy (https://imgur.com/a/2OONhUr).
@unison: Haha…
Thanks for replying.
I don't actually like using Android Auto, because it means I always have to carry a phone, and also Internet enabled phone.
My phone(s) are running custom Android ROMs, so I could not run Android Auto and not even if Android Auto was installed from Play Store.
I have figured out the way to solve this, but still I don't always drive with my phone.
buying them brand new and losing $20,000-$25,000 after 3 years
Pretty sure buying a brand new Tesla today, you won't be losing that much in 3 years.
maybe not today, maybe. but in the past they have due to RRP dropping significantly for new buyers.
That is why I said today. Other cars in similar price brackets lose similar amounts of money over three years
yep, they don't seem unusually bad in normal times without price drops.
Nothing.
I would say that Tesla not supporting the upcoming V2H and V2G standards in Australia is a big negative if you want to use your car as a giant battery to power your house with solar.
You can always come up with a justification to buy a Tesla, BYD, MG……just depends if it is based upon your head or your heart.
I always find it baffling that people fret about depreciation, resale value etc on cars. These things lose value, and lots of it. Make your peace with that, assume whatever you buy will be worth $0 by the time you get rid of it, and just buy one you enjoy driving rather than one that you think might end up with better resale value.
You should see people talking about installing solar. If you don't get payback within 5 years it is like you are lighting your money on fire for some people
many people lease vehicles with the intention to resell it at the end of the lease and as such depreciation rates for various vehicles are critically important. But yeah apart from that all vehicles depreciate and if you plan on selling rather than driving it till dead you should include that for any car in your calculations if cost is an important factor
Easily identified as a cuck
I think you meant "simp"…
Tell Me Some Positives of Buying a New Tesla
They've improved the fire detectors.
They've improved the fire detectors.
Again with this shit?
So, just for the record, jv, just how many "Tesla" vehicle fires were there, "in Australia", in the last 220+ years?
Your comments are literally the reason the government needs to look into implementing shit like the Misinformation and Disinformation bill to parliament.
Its not just the speed setting. Ita the whole package.
While new EVs etc will likely have data connection, most existing vehicles have no connection to the internet. They dont upload loads of your driving practices, or monitor how often you use a drive through etc so they can then target advertising at you.
I wouldn't be concerned about our government going all big brother to try to fine you for speeding by 2km/h (yet) but suspect that tesla has clauses in their user agreement to allow lots of data harvesting and sale of that data to whoeever pays - wether that be friendly tech companies or unfriendly ones.