stolen from the description- "Shelly Plus 1 is a Wi-Fi & Bluetooth-operated smart relay switch with 1 channel, up to 16A that can be used also as a WiFi repeater. Shelly Plus 1 can be used to control any home appliances, electric circuits, and office equipment individually."
CamelCamelCamel.
I was going to use these throughout a house I've just purchased. Any insight \ recommendations regarding them?
Shelly devices are good and reliable.
But for a lot of devices I'd prefer zigbee to wifi (if decided to stick with shelly, their new gen4 devices support zigbee as well).
What are the benefits of that approach?
That would need him to write an essay for you. It isn't simple, unfortunately.
https://google.com/search?q=zigbee+vs+wifi
Also, I'm sure people would be happy to give specific advice if you ask, and detail your requirements.
Keep in mind, this sort of smart-switch is not an ideal solution, it is a retro-fit for when you have to control dumb devices. So putting them throughout your house is unusual. What problem are you trying to solve?
@bargaino: Maybe I should have written my response to DmytroP a little more clearly.
@DmytroP what are the main benefits of zigbee in your home setup?
@bondy28: In simple terms:
In simple terms:
Wi-Fi devices congest your Wi-Fi network and slow down your Wi-Fi for critical data applications. Zigbee networks become stronger the more powered devices there are in the network.
TLDR: If you're just doing half a dozen switches, user these. If connecting a larger number of devices use zigbee.
@bondy28: I agree with CacheHunter here, it's nice to avoid adding to many devices to your wifi network.
In addition, usually powered devices (vs battery operated) are working as repeaters for network, creating a mesh, so easier to cover larger area.
For battery operated devices, Zigbee is much better due to much lower power consumption.
With Home Assistant, it's possible to mix multiple devices from different manufacturers. I have a few wifi devices (including Shelly, they usually work well), most Zigbee and a few 433Mhz plant sensors with a separate gateway.
@DmytroP: My Ubiquiti network infrastructure won't have an issue with 30+ smart home devices being added. Coverage won't be an issue either. It sounds like Zigbee's best use case in my scenario is for battery operated smart home devices that may benefit from lower power consumption than WiFi connected alternatives. Appreciated the info.
@bondy28: Be carefully with Ubiquiti and IOT, recently some people had issues with 7 series of Unifi APs and IOT devices. It may be fixed by now, I was not following it much. A few wifi IOT devices I have are working fine with U6 pro and U7 pro APs. Most likely caused by IOT devices, but still worth to be aware.
Another disadvantage of wifi devices - with Zigbee it's reasonably standardised, with wifi it's not as much. Ok to use everything Shelly for example (it works well locally), but some manufacturers may use their own apps / protocol, require cloud access etc.
Belkin for example has recently killed support of their Wemo smart devices, after shutting down servers next year their devices will stop working.
So for me, if I have a choice I select zigbee, otherwise it's ok to mix with Home Assistant combines everything together.
@DmytroP: Unifi resolved IOT issues on the U7 series over a year ago, no one reports any issues with the current mainline firmware.
@bargaino: i disagree, i think these are the best options. If you go with smart lights you might need say 6 smart lights rather than one smart switch. If you get the switches and they break the chances of them still manufacturing that style is low. Second house we are building now with this style, this way all the light switches match and if the smart tech changes or breaks down we don't need to adjust it.
@NopeNopeNope: You are assuming for lights? This is not intended for that. Shelly do a PWM dimmer, but AC dimemrs with LEDs are an ugly hack.
@bargaino: These are not intended for lights? I was consideting them for rudimentary light control and GPO's.
@bondy28: These are absolutely intended for lights, as one of their uses anyway. If you need to dim the lights then this won't do that which is what I think they were getting at.
I have about 10 of the 1PlusPM controlling lights which just has power monitoring over these, I only bought the PM version as there was a bargain on them at the time :) I've got about 50 devices on a combination of U6 Lite and U6 Pro AP's, no issues for the years I've been running them.
@Hank Scorpion: Cheers for the info. I might get a few of these for lights out the front of my property etc.
@bargaino: One advantage of using such devices - you still have your switches working, in addition to automation. It may be quite useful, so certainly it has usage.
matter over wifi is the new standard
thread is dead ???
Is this just a timer, or can I link it to a CT / gastron meter etc to activate hot water/ car charging / Air con / blind motor when the sun comes out?
I was just gonna try on roller shutters.
you need the shelly 2 for shutters
This one supports up to 16A, you may need to connect it to a separate contactor to activate higher power devices like hot water.
But to answer your question, yes, you can activate it remotely.
I have a Home Assistant automation that checks the exported / imported power and activates hot water (using another Shelly device EM 50, connected to a separate contactor) when I export more than the hot water heater consumes. Additionally, it always has it on for a few hours midday, in case of cloudy weather.
Nice. I replaced the element with a 2100w element. So 16A is fine.
Where is Home Assistant getting it's data from?
I have a Growatt inverter with batteries. So has an Eastron meter in there to control the battery. There is an old school serial port on the inverter that you can pull data from. But that's getting outside my knowledge base.
I'm using Shelly Pro EM 50 installed in the meter box for both metering of export/import and solar generation (is has the current clamps) and as an relay for hot water.
In your case, it's possible Home Assistant already supports the Eastron controller ( you can check it here https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/eastron/ ), especially if the controller has wifi / networking.
I run a Shelly EM with CT clamp over my incoming mains, giving more accurate data than inverter output, with data for total imports/exports to take other household loads into account. Ie, hot water switches on only when exporting to the grid (with option for override).
Separate device to what is on sale here. The EM is all you'd need, as it can accept 2x CT coils, and has 1x 2A output to control a contactor.
My Fronius has direct Home Assistant integration for data; you'd need to do some research into serial output if you tried that route.
To be installed by a licenced electrician.
Does this detect voltage?
Yes
I guess these require licensed electricians to install?
Yes
What are the averaged cost to install, say 4 of these into the power points in Sydney?
Nah. Especially not if it’s low voltage.
No, they will work fine either way.
Compliance with AU regulations requires a licensed electrician. If you are running a business, compliance might be important.
For the average person, such regulatory compliance has zero effect.
It's literally illegal and I would advise against advocating for other people to do so.
Why? Seriously, think about the rationale behind what you say.
@J4ckal: Can you not understand English? Why do the regulations matter to you?
Let me help … perhaps you are an electrician, and your job might be at risk if your work is not compliant.
Perhaps you are concerned about legal liability in the event of a fault.
Perhaps you have an irrational fear of the police breaking down your door?
Are you afraid you will burn in hell if you don't test your smoke detectors every month like the instructions say?
Seriously, why?
@bargaino: My main concern for this is insurance. If there's an electrical fire or some sort of issue and this is found to be the cause, there's a chance they won't pay out.
claims "zero effect".
gives an example of genuine reasoning for not wanting to break the law (concern for legal liability in the event of a fault).
Do you need more answers to your "why?", or will that suffice?
@kongkurr: Those points boil down to "don't do it if you are not competent", and would apply even if you lived in another country.
Most nations do not have the nanny-state regulations like Australia. Even in NZ, which follows the same standards, DIY electrical can be compliant with regulations.
Are you actually concerned with safety? Insurance? And convinced that getting some 16yo apprentice or meth-addled tradie in is the only way to ensure safety?
So while your 1st and 3rd points have some validity (#2 is plain wrong), they are not relevant to the question of need for compliance. Really, you are telling scare stories. And all scary tales have a kernel of truth.
@bargaino: If the Shelly is faulty and catches fire at no fault of you, the unqualified installer, #2 is accurate.
I'm glad we could resolve that, and you can understand there are indeed valid reasons why.
If you think that having a 16yr old, or drug affected sparky is your only option, then I guess I can see your misguided point of view on the topic. Despite what you think, you're not more competent than a decent accredited sparky.
@bargaino: Is giving advice on what to consider when weighing up doing something illegal, really 'gatekeeping'?
To be clear, I have no issue with simple tasks like replacing single fittings in a domestic setting being made legal to DIYers. At least then the regulatory body in your area could educate on correct testing procedures, instead of the 'flick the switch' testing done by the DIY cowboys of today.
@kongkurr: I've seen worse from "tradie cowboys", as well as diligent ones. Does not mean they should all be tarred with the same brush.
The context here is a simple wifi relay. The wiring is not the hard part.
So why is it important who does the wiring, and what piece of paper they have, as opposed to is it done properly.
Cleaning gutters is more dangerous. Perhaps ladders should be licensed?
@bargaino: Cleaning gutters is not more dangerous for the next person who comes along to clean gutters.
@kongkurr: Can you be more specific?
What fault are you afraid of with wiring a relay? Swapping live and neutral?
We may be thinking in different directions, but any sparky who works on a house and just assumes that everything is correct already, probably should lose his license. It would be like driving a car, and assuming everyone else was going to obey the road rules. Safety first. Have you ever checked the wiring in an old house?
@bargaino: Any fault that could be found doing mandatory testing. There are dozens. Respectfully, this is telling of why being competent is important here, and why loosely recommending strangers attempt unlicenced work without any basic knowledge is a poor idea.
I never suggested anything close to it being acceptable for a sparky not to test - you're the one suggesting homeowners modify switches themselves, so why should the next person be limited to a sparky in your argument?
The laws and regulations are the problem.
I should be able to do whatever the hell I want in my own home. It would just need to be demolished when I die!
Seriously though, the government needs to come up with better ways to give homeowners more freedom.
They support 12-14V DC, so depending on your use case, no. If you want to use for 110-240V, then yes. I added one to my Merlin roller door motor to integrate with home assistant. 24V. No sparky required.
Wouldn’t these need an RCM mark for house insurance
But won’t only Australian stock be compliant?
Was discussed recently in Aus Home Assistant group. Need to buy from authorised Aus sellers to be fully compliant.
Do you have an electrical trade by any chance?
That discussion was about gen3 and 4 if I'm not mistaken. This one is apparently a gen2.
Could these be used as a relay with some sort of sensor that would sense 240v from a device starting & switch a 24v circuit and keep that circuit on while current is drawn by the AC device? (still investigation what there is, some sort of sensor like the sensor in a clamp meter)
More detail would be helpful. What you're describing is possible with a different Shelly device. If it's a high current draw load you'll want an EM with CT clamp. Otherwise, a Shelly 1PM has energy monitoring for connected load built in. I use Home Assistant to do the switching, but someone might be able to confirm that it's possible within Shelly itself, using the url link triggers or similar.
If you're talking about a task like turning on a exhaust fan when a dryer is running, and don't need the app control, a simpler setup with a current sensing relay would be more reliable.
300 watts AC and 0.2watts DC of Fans moving heat away from a Fridge condenser coil in an off-grid home.
Is that 300W of load on the primary device, and 0.2W being switched? At approx 1.25A of 240V load, most off the shelf current sensing relays would be able to trigger their switching contacts.
Expensive contained option, but overkill: https://www.powerform.com.au/current-sensors/current-sensing…
Affordable: https://www.amazon.com.au/Miniature-Current-Normally-Sensing…
That doesn't need external power, and switches its contact at more than 0.2A of AC running through the current sensing coil.
I'd always suggest running the load through an additional relay, so the current sensing device's limited rated switching terminals aren't exposed to fan load, although for a small fan it should be fine.
Alternative is to take 240V off the primary device (ie the load side of the internal switch of the device), then step it down to 24V and avoid sensing altogether, however not so 'plug and play', and means modifying the device.
@kongkurr: Yes, the 300w @ 240v fridge & 20w of fans @ 24v fans to be switched on when the compressor is running, at the moment the fans run 24/7, tried wiring a 240 fan in but the draw was substantial compared to the 4 24v fans which also distribute air flow much better than 1 large fan.
"usually dispatched within 3 to 6 months"?
anyone have this experience, are they sending a german backpacker out on foot?
Nah, then they'd be here in 12 days.
I thought I'd be more like nein
Well played.
lol, via WA bush?
This guy gets it. 👍
I have about 6 of the 2 relay models at home. The problem i faced was that it needs a sparky to come out and install these and my sparky took some time to figure out how to connect this, which eqautes to more money. So there is cost for install that needs to be added in vs say a hue light bulb or two.I wish they were self-install in AU.
Depending on number of bulbs / switch one might make sense vs the other.
From a performance prespective, mine are on wifi and they have been working well. I do have them on schedule and sometimes i find one of the switch doesnt turn off/on but its rare. And my google home complains about "not being able to reach to them" but then the action is performed fine.
What's the easiest way to get it work with Apple HomeKit?
![[Prime] Shelly Plus 1 WiFi & Bluetooth Smart Relay Switch (2 Pack) $33.69 Delivered @ Amazon DE via AU](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/59/915359.jpg?h=8c70ded4)
Thanks! Ordered a pack.