Are Investment Properties Completely Goated Relative to Other Investments?

John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 03:33
Last edited 20/08/2025 - 10:17 by 1 other user

I'd rather buy an apartment near the CBD/my workplace, than buy a house 1.5 hours away in the middle of bumble(profanity). But apartments don't appreciate like land, therefore aren't good investments.

If I want to use the first home buyers scheme, I have to still live in the house for 1 year, which sounds stressful. Even assuming I complete my year of hell, and begin renting out my property, the rent most likely won't cover the mortgage. So for 30 years, I'd be pissing away like $200 per week. BUT the big advantage of a house, is that if you live in it for a few years you can sell it with NO capital gains.

Compared to shares, which incur a capital gains tax, when you sell them. Half off capital gains (if held for more than a year) is worse than no capitals gains. Plus shares are more diverse, house prices are pretty much determined by how desperate Indian immigrants are, and how rich Chinese immigrants are. If they decide "(profanity Australia", and move to an actual good country, my investment would be completely (profanity).

So, to maximize my wealth I'm forced to play into this (profanity) country's ponzi scheme. (Profanity) Australia.

Shareholders, how do you justify paying like 20 percent capital gains, when you sell?

Financial Investment

Comments

  • Nutrino on 20/08/2025 - 05:19
    +6

    Bumble@##%…….! Looool. Wtf.

    • holdenmg on 20/08/2025 - 06:03
      +5

      I doubt there will ever be much capital appreciation in that suburb.

      • RTX9090Ti on 23/08/2025 - 09:03
        -2

        OP sums up perfectly: "how desperate Indian immigrants are, and how rich Chinese immigrants are."

        If you know how to rig play the game, you can get rich quick.

    • JIMB0 on 20/08/2025 - 08:26
      +7

      It actually quite nice. Quieter and no insufferable city folk.

      • smartialarts on 21/08/2025 - 08:45

        Love the new shopping centre too, and parks are lovely.

      • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2025 - 17:46

        Just wait. Albo and co are building high rises at a location near you

        • JIMB0 on 23/08/2025 - 18:35
          +1

          Perfect, I’m just outside the area they’re cramming high-rises into. I’ll enjoy the new facilities within walking distance, while still relaxing in my mansion.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2025 - 18:43

            @JIMB0: Just wait Jimbo, a mansion can be taken for high density without adequate recompense

  • joka on 20/08/2025 - 05:24
    +6

    Also, unless you purchase in a well regarded suburb, don’t expect the value to appreciate anywhere near that magical 10%. The appreciation of the value within the few years before you sell CG free would likely not offset the land tax and other costs you need to put into it to stop the tenant complaining.

    So yeh, you’re right. I think those days of 10% growth year on year are long gone for the most part.

    • ninnypoop on 21/08/2025 - 12:45
      -1

      Even in light of the new first home buyer schemes coming out next year? Most are saying these will cause house prices to surge

      • supersabroso on 21/08/2025 - 15:25
        +4

        Yes, as per simple demand and supply, when there's more demand, the price will go up. However, at least it means more first home buyers will get a bigger market share and take a sliver off the rich investors looking to own some rent slaves.

    • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2025 - 17:47

      In Melbourne where they have taxed property owners into infinity. Other states less so.

  • Ynk on 20/08/2025 - 05:25
    +33

    Investment properties DO incur a capital gains tax and are treated exactly the same as shares. Your "idea" might work if you never own any other property to live in and continue renting somewhere and move back in to the one you own every 6 years or whatever it is.

    The return on shares is equal to or has exceeded the return on property and has less hassle in terms on maintenance, cash flow issues etc - The one significant advantage of property is the ability to use leverage to increase returns however there are ways to achieve the same thing with shares depending on your financial position.

    • krisspy on 21/08/2025 - 14:28
      +1

      Surely the people who got in before covid have made a killing? Houses are pretty much double the price since then

      • webtonmoy on 21/08/2025 - 15:00
        +3

        Not everywhere, especially not in Victoria.

      • Brianqpr on 21/08/2025 - 17:24
        +1

        In Sydney they fell before covid (2018-2019 market dropped about 15% where we were living) and then did well from there. Certainly haven't doubled though. We purchased for $1.1 in early 2017 and sold in November last year for $1.7 having done some renovations. It might be worth maybe $1.8 by now.

    • Brianqpr on 21/08/2025 - 17:39
      +8

      The best thing about property investing is being able to leverage, although as mentioned you can do that with shares too but not as easily.

      People only focus on the purchase and sale price with investment properties. They often forget the stamp duty, maintenance, insurance, interest cost, strata fees, agent fees and other expenses involved. The returns aren't half as good when you factor that stuff in.

      I've also seen some absolute horror stories in my job, in particular properties purchased in SMSF super funds. Those funds have to produce annual accounts and financial statements and it can be a real eye opener to see all the costs involved in holding an investment property itemised like that.

      People say shares are more volatile, but are they? They are priced 'live' 5 days a week where property is only truly priced when it is bought and sold, often at least a decade apart. Chances are if you only looked at your shares that often, they'd look like pretty smooth sailing too.

      Shares provide returns as good and often better. They are liquid and easy to trade quickly if needed. You can't just sell a bedroom from your property if you need some cash and a full sale can take months.

      CGT and tax deductions apply in the same way to both shares and property. Property is the media darling and also the top end of town has a vested interest in keeping property prices growing, hence the favourable coverage it gets and so called affordability measures that only end up increasing prices more.

    • Wasabi Ninja on 22/08/2025 - 13:23

      Do you still incur capital gains tax if you make the property your main residence for a year or two before selling it? Asking because that’s what my parents did and paid zero capital gains.

      • AnophthalmiaCervidae on 22/08/2025 - 15:37

        If you live in it first you can rent it out for the next 6 years and claim CGT exemption it you don't have another principal place of residence.
        If you first rent it out for say 18 years and then move in for 2 years you should pay CGT on 50% (discount for holding more than 12 months) of 90% (the proportion it was used to produce income) of the capital gain.
        If you don't declare it then you don't pay any tax on anything unless the tax man comes at you for an audit.

  • onetwothreefour on 20/08/2025 - 05:51
    +26

    Feels like a troll post tomget some arguments going.

    • JIMB0 on 20/08/2025 - 08:28
      +10

      Someone has to start the fortnightly housing thread that turns into 10 pages of arguments.

    • nikey2k27 on 21/08/2025 - 21:03
      -6

      what arguments i own in trust one unit block and my own house live in my pop trust now my dad and family trust own 300 plus rental dose my head it yelling rental people was leave me alone i never take one cent from family trust. EFT life for me own unit block protest NDIS brother rest unit rent donot want him homeless to local hospital dr and others. told just email no phone call happy fix any think never phone me EFT life for my i love it

      • onetwothreefour on 21/08/2025 - 22:15
        +7

        I put your comment through chatgpt and even that didn't know what the hell you were talking about.

        It looks like the comment is a bit jumbled and could be expressing several thoughts at once.

        • ankor on 22/08/2025 - 05:41
          +2

          I think someone under a guardianship order has wealthy relatives looking after him, and they deal with a lot of rental complaints that he hears second hand.

      • JIMB0 on 22/08/2025 - 08:01

        Are you having a stroke? Would you like me to call an ambulance?

  • Gunnar on 20/08/2025 - 06:21
    +11

    Is this post about:
    - housing prices?
    - migration?
    - shares?

    • holdenmg on 20/08/2025 - 06:26
      +5

      Travel?
      Going to a "good country"

        • dajiska on 20/08/2025 - 21:26
          +6

          Australia passport is easy to get. —> plus cheapest as well ;-)

    • Ugly on 20/08/2025 - 18:53
      +1

      Yes?

  • SBOB on 20/08/2025 - 06:47
    +21

    So to maximize my wealth

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/915747

    Wealth you say?

    • gromit on 20/08/2025 - 20:11
      +1

      Lol, yep flat broke troll without aclue.

      • John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 20:42
        -7

        Which is why I'm asking lol. The gatekeeping here

        • banana365 on 21/08/2025 - 17:08
          +5

          I think you'll find that the gatekeeper in your situation is prospective mortgage lenders. You're going to get zero financing if you're still making $12k a year at Coles as you've posted just last month. If they're polite, they won't laugh at you when you ask.

        • KangaDrew on 22/08/2025 - 09:42

          And now that you're in the penalty box, the OZB mods are your gatekeepers!

        • RTX9090Ti on 23/08/2025 - 09:00
          -1

          bitcoin is more than 600% capital gain in the past 3 years. forget about bumble property.

    • smartialarts on 21/08/2025 - 08:48
      +4

      quality stalking

    • supersabroso on 21/08/2025 - 15:37
      +1

      Broooooo, he's trolling if he thinks he can buy property on an income of $13k/year. You're not getting your foot in the door unless you hit minimum wage at $49k/year, then you can start buying studio apartments. You can get one 19 minutes from Sydney CBD for a lovely mortgage of $14k/year.

      • SBOB on 21/08/2025 - 16:03

        trolls been banished to the penalty bin anyway

  • Far Cough on 20/08/2025 - 07:42

    What is going on here?

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 20/08/2025 - 07:48
      +28

      A young 'un has popped out from under the bridge for a visit.

      • Far Cough on 20/08/2025 - 07:54

        Oh, that explains it.

  • ihbh on 20/08/2025 - 08:03
    +2

    Investment Properties Completely Goated

    Noob comments.

    Goated - check Japan from 1990 onwards and China recently.

    When you talk about living in and selling without CGT, that's a principal residence.

    Share holders, how do you justify paying like 20 percent capital gains, when you sell?

    Some stocks have had a strong run over 20 years, such as tech ones, so CGT is high, but paying tax is good because it means you've made some gains. E.g. an Aus tech, buy ~$50k sell ~$2m -> approx $4-500k CGT, but still a lot of net gains.

    • John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 20:41
      -2

      When you talk about living in and selling without CGT, that's a principal residence.

      Any house can be a principal residence. Just live in it for a few years, before u sell.

      Goated - check Japan from 1990 onwards and China recently.

      Good point

      I've been convinced, (profanity) housing, I'll get an apartment, then (profanity) off to a new country ASAP

      • gromit on 21/08/2025 - 13:31
        +3

        It doesn't quite work that way, while you can make it your PPR, you are still liable for the CGT while it was an investment property. So if you buy an investment property for $500k, rent it for 5 years then move in for 5 years, when you sell you are liable for CGT for the 5 years of growth while it was an investment house.

        • flywire on 21/08/2025 - 23:21
          -1

          OP is correct.

      • Hangryuman on 21/08/2025 - 13:40
        +7

        'Goated - I had to look it up - reddit: 'It stands for "greatest of all timed", and is a way of letting people know you are extremely uneducated to the point of being barely literate.'

    • Some Random Guy on 22/08/2025 - 12:12

      PS to anyone who doesn't know the GCT is the amount that goes toward your taxable income.

      I.e. from the 500k, the first 18k isn't taxed at all, $18,001 - 30k is taxed at 15% (I can't remember the exact numbers), etc

      So essentially in Australia, as an investor for the same amount of income tax as a worker you earn way more I.e. much lower effective tax rate. hence a massive productivity problem

      (John Howard the genius! No one work and everyone make money and then when no one is working pass the issue to someone else)

      I could also be very wrong as this info was relayed to me by my brother that does a fair bit of investing

      • ihbh on 22/08/2025 - 12:23

        the first 18k isn't taxed at all, $18,001 - 30k is taxed at 15% (I can't remember the exact numbers), etc

        Yes, Aus has a progressive tax system.

        So essentially in Australia, as an investor for the same amount of income tax as a worker you earn way more I.e. much lower effective tax rate. hence a massive productivity problem

        Nope, same for all types of income. CG more effective if you've held > 12 months - 50% discount, effectively halve the tax rate depending on bracket.

  • JIMB0 on 20/08/2025 - 08:30
    +5

    Share holders, how do you justify paying like 20 percent capital gains, when you sell?

    I avoid this by not selling. The ATO hates it cause I've saved heaps.

    • mskeggs on 20/08/2025 - 09:59
      +1

      Not sure this is entirely thought through:

      Half off capital gains(if held for more than a year) is worse than no capitals gains

      I suppose a loss can be offset against other CGT.

      • JIMB0 on 20/08/2025 - 10:05
        +3

        That's another way of doing it. Make a loss somewhere else to offset your gain. The tax man hates that trick as well.

        • mskeggs on 20/08/2025 - 10:06
          +4

          That said, I'll take gains all day and happily pay cgt, hopefully vast amounts!

        • gromit on 21/08/2025 - 13:33

          I hate that trick too. while it irks me to get a big tax bill each year I would much prefer that then having losses to offset those gains.

        • RTX9090Ti on 23/08/2025 - 09:10

          you mean rorting the 'expenses' with fake hand written 'receipts' on properties 'maintenance' ?

          • JIMB0 on 23/08/2025 - 09:42

            @RTX9090Ti: Sure, every time I sell some share shares I offset the gain with some handwritten plumbing receipts, despite not owning an investment property. The ASX has a lot of leaky taps.

      • flywire on 21/08/2025 - 23:24

        Sure. If you have a diversified portfolio you will likely have unrealised losses. Sell them to realise the losses and offset them against capital gain. You can also max out your concessional super contributions to lower your taxable income.

    • tunzafun001 on 20/08/2025 - 20:55
      -1

      I just buy stupid shares (like banks)…that then collapsed 3yrs later (thanks..GFC).
      Would have been easier to give my wallet to Michael Burry.
      No worries about capital gains when you have capital losses 'in the bank'. But my shares that have done well have been….banks!
      Sometimes it's like picking a broken nose …keep picking enough, you will get a winner.
      Mandatory super in this country means the share market is being force fed. Heaps of shares are Massively overvalued. But without a change to the current status quo..that will only go up (the money has to go in somewhere).

      Also, many had capital losses in property in the 19% interest years..heck, if you bought in 2010 and sold in 2018 you would very likely have made a loss. If you bought in 2018 and sold today, you would have at least doubled your money (but all relative, as you need to buy somewhere else).

      ..as for the op, here's my tip. All CBDs were once Bumble F nowhere. Someone took a chance and bought in what is now the CBD, as that is all they could afford Today's outer suburb is tomorrows inner. Stop whining. Do what every other battler done prior and buy where you can afford. For me, that was a $35k house in 2004. It was an absolute shit hole, but it was my shit hole. Then added another shit hole. Then another. Sold a shit hole just recently which paid off the other shit holes. Could possibly trade up to get near the inner CBD…but now older, have no interest…as it is a shit hole. I see the smog clouds hover over it from here, and I hear …nothing…it's wonderful. Your draw to be in the CBD will go.

      As you say, our economy is based on a pyramid scheme. Like cancer, population must always grow. So the pyramid constantly grows new base layers. The bottom layer in 50 years will look like the top.

      Enjoy Bumble F…it will change your life for the better.

      • tenpercent on 23/08/2025 - 09:50

        The bottom layer in 50 years will look like the top.

        What will the top layer look like in 50 years?

  • McMaferMur on 20/08/2025 - 08:33
    +3

    Dont worry about tax focus on earning more. Or you rather pay no tax because earning zero.
    Pick one. Or move to other country like singapore, sweden…

  • Stealtho on 20/08/2025 - 08:34
    +12

    Do what most single 20 year olds are doing, work and travel.
    Or do what my son did at 19, moved to NZ found a Danish wife, had a kid and now lives in Copenhagen, works in IT security.
    Better than here lol
    Better health system.
    Workers get treated way better.
    He just had 6 months full pay paternity leave.

    • John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 20:35
      -8

      Well I'm Indian. Don't Indians in Ireland get stoned? I ik Indians in Poland, France, Germany, Netherlands aren't liked. Switzerland is pretty good, but naturaliztion/sponsorship is too difficult.

      I need to stay in Sydney/Melbourne for at least 5 years, to get work experience, and get out of Australia.

      • Randolph Duke on 21/08/2025 - 09:43
        +9

        No irony of an immigrant complaining about Australia & migration elsewhere when they have a MAGA avatar.

        • gimme on 21/08/2025 - 10:17
          +3

          pretty sure they're not .. just trolling

        • whyisave on 21/08/2025 - 13:03
          +4

          MAGA = Molesters Are Granted Amnesty

  • KangaDrew on 20/08/2025 - 08:40
    +6

    So to maximize my wealth I'm forced to play into this shitty country's ponzi scheme. (profanity) Australia.

    Given your love for TACO Trump, maybe you should move to the US. I'm certain you'll have absolutely nothing to complain about over there.

    • mskeggs on 20/08/2025 - 10:10
      +5

      I would love to see a program like the £10 Pommy immigration scheme, but where we could crowdfund relocations to the USA.

      The old saying about raising the average IQ comes to mind.

      • John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 20:32
        -4

        Australian PR is easy to get. You can't even naturalize in America. It's a bunch of BS lotteries, also why birthright citizenship is a scam

      • SlickMick on 21/08/2025 - 18:02
        +1

        lol I'll cancel my post - I just said something along the same lines

    • John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 20:31
      -4

      How I gonna get greencard?

  • Stealtho on 20/08/2025 - 08:44
    +4

    Boy needs to get out of the city, big wide world out there lol

    • John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 20:33
      -8

      I don't want to live near bogans.

      • CodeXD on 20/08/2025 - 20:34
        +2

        Do you also want a unicorn with your mansion in the city?

        • John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 20:40
          -5

          I read the comments, and yeah. I think apt is the way to go. By the time I graduate, I'll hopefully have enough for a downpayment on an apartment in bankstown.

          And NO bogans.

      • Stealtho on 20/08/2025 - 21:50
        +3

        Go back to India then, slums are free.

        • Poor Ass on 20/08/2025 - 22:15
          +1

          Slumdog millionaire

      • tenpercent on 23/08/2025 - 09:52

        The majority of Australians (bogans and otherwise) don't want to live near you either.

  • DingoBilly on 20/08/2025 - 08:53
    +3

    No property is not all its cracked out to be.

    Plenty of people lose money on property.

    Plenty of easier options out there that will give similar returns but much lower risk.

    Many people make good money on property, but you won't hear people boasting about the property they lost money on.

  • Benoffie on 20/08/2025 - 09:22

    How do we justify paying CGT?

    You factor that into your calculations and what you're willing to sell at.

    That's the current system. News Flash - its about to get worse

    • AaronRain on 20/08/2025 - 11:46

      Next up OP will complain about justifying paying Income tax or GST.

      • John Barosa on 20/08/2025 - 20:30
        -1

        Australian income tax is BS. countries similar in development such Singapore and Switzerland taxes are way less. And oil countries such as UAE and Brunei have no income tax, our natural resources exceeds those countries.

        Big fan of GST tho.

        • Poor Ass on 20/08/2025 - 22:16
          +1

          that's just how it works here

          if you want to try to make a difference be a politician

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