Bank Transfer Scam, What to Do?

p1 ama on 30/07/2013 - 20:43

I'm asking this on behalf of my friend who's asking me for help and I'm pretty lost as to what to do myself.

He wanted to buy a MacBook Pro (second hand) off somebody located in Darwin who's agreed to go halfies with him, i.e. pay half now and pay half after receipt of product, so essentially both are taking an equal gamble.

He's been asked to pay via bank transfer, but different banks, so he was asked to pop into Commonwealth bank and place a direct deposit into the scammer's account (BSB and Acc numbers given). He still has the receipt for this transaction.

Since the payment, the seller has dodged questions about shipping and tracking numbers as well and is now not picking up his phone or replying to text messages. Indicative of a scam.

I told my friend to pretty much message the guy with a bunch of legal terminology, inc. using the words "court", "affidavit of debt"…etc. and scare the scammer into refunding, but not seeming to be working.

Any ideas, guys?

General Discussion

Comments

  • Shadowsfury on 30/07/2013 - 20:53
    +30

    How is half now half later splitting the gamble?

    Once your friend pays your half he's down 50% of the price, while the scammer has both his laptop AND 50% of its price to boot.

    What about contacting the bank and saying that the transaction you entered was a scam?

    • p1 ama on 30/07/2013 - 20:58

      Well I guess I sort of do understand, as the seller is sending the laptop off on the proviso that the buyer will pay the remaining 50%.

      I've told him to try that.

      Btw, it's a verified scam, as I have contacted the scammer acting as an interested buyer and he has notified me that it is still available. After stating that I am in Darwin and am happy to pick it up, he quickly changed his story and said that he was no longer interested in selling.

      • May4th on 30/07/2013 - 23:19
        +15

        no not really, the logic is seriously flawed, the seller holds no risk at all while your friend is sending him money without any guarantees. the seller would be equally dumb in accepting that because he has no way to ensure the buyer pays the other half when they receive the laptop. that doesn't equal same risks on both sides, i don't know how your friend could have thought that would work

        let that be a lesson.. do not buy anything, least of all not something as expensive as a MBP via mail from anywhere apart from ebay or a verified store

      • deal seeking missile on 02/08/2013 - 16:02

        You'll need to report the crime to the police and inform them that you'll be taking legal action against the owner of the ebay/bank account for damages and legal costs. I'd recommend getting one of those call recording apps from the play store and then do another one of those calls to prove it's a scam. You can burn it to a disk(or put it in an old USB) and give a copy to the police. Oh and get a good lawyer.
        Hope you win the case.

        P.S. Dont forget to contact ebay and tell them the account holder is a proven scam artist and that the police will be investigating him but make sure do this after the you've given the police all the evidence.
        Give 'em hell and dont let the bastards get away.

  • jimborino on 30/07/2013 - 20:53

    Any chance of asking the bank to cancel the transfer? Although I would say that is not possible. I know this is of no help now, but deals like this are really a cash only…even then check goods first before the swap (in a public location during the day!).

    • p1 ama on 30/07/2013 - 20:59

      I think it's complicated because of the cash deposit. But I will defs tell him to try that.

      I'm more interested in whether there is some form of reporting agency which deals with scams such as this.

      • A3Australia on 04/08/2013 - 16:04
        +2

        I'm more interested in whether there is some form of reporting agency which deals with scams such as this.

        There is, the Police.

    • dieselraw on 30/07/2013 - 22:45
      +2

      Cancellation can be requested within the first few hours only.

  • bbqwer on 30/07/2013 - 21:24
    +9

    I hate to say this: One thing for sure your friend wont get the money back. end of story!!! He will learn this lesson

    • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 08:49
      +6

      That's not necessarily true. As long as the account remains open. I bought a $500 gift card on ebay that never arrived. I requested contact details through ebay then phoned the seller. She claimed her drug-addict sister got access to her ebay account and ripped several people off. A few weeks in, PP refunded part of the transaction. I phoned "seller" again and she promised to send the difference. It didn't arrive. Phoned her again. She says Victoria police is now involved and they've told her to wait until it's all sorted out by the court. Vic police then contacted me, asking me to go to my local cop station to give a statement about what happened. A few months later I received a cheque for the balance, then a phone call from Vic police to check she had actually repaid me.

      In short, he has the bank account details - which is the same amount of info I had - so contact police.

      • Untameable on 01/08/2013 - 10:47

        If that's true then that's actually kind of lovely, to pay off your scum sibling's debts.

      • matt_will_fix_it on 02/08/2013 - 13:49
        +1

        Thats nice… but the OP didn't use paypal.

  • qwerty on 30/07/2013 - 21:33
    +3

    You may be able to report him for fraud and get the account shut down.

  • natman on 30/07/2013 - 21:41
    +10

    Report it to the police. I don't know if much else can be done.

    • ThadtheChad on 30/07/2013 - 23:34
      +8

      Definitely the police. This is proper criminal activity.

    • ozgriff on 02/08/2013 - 06:28
      +1

      Yup, police for this and make sure you document every piece of contact.

      You have a bank account number s the police have a very easy place to start looking.

      This is a scam and is theft by defraud (I'm not a solicitor and don't quote me on the actual term).

  • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2013 - 23:45
    +5

    You can report scams here: https://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/tag/reporta…

    Basically all I would advise - call your bank, request a recall of funds. This will have a letter sent

    Your bank > Their bank > Customer

    Advising the funds have been deposited into the account by mistake and asking them to sign an authority for thier bank to debit the funds and return them to the payee. They are not required to respond to this though. If they fail to respond a 2nd letter is sent. If they also fail to respond to that letter the request fails and they keep the funds. The next step would be to contact small claims court in your state for advice.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2013 - 23:54
    +9

    Yeah I'd report it to the bank and the police. With any luck the scammer is dumb enough to have the bank account in his real name. The phone number could also be linked to his identity. I'd hazard a guess that these type of scammers rely on people not reporting them.

    You realise that he doesn't actually even own a MacBook Pro so was taking no 'risk' whatsoever…the pics will be taken from another advert. He will propose the 'shared risk' to make it appear like he's genuine.

    If the cops aren't interested then I'd be signing up his mobile to every single paid subscription I could find. I'd also be taking out a large number of gift magazine subscriptions to somewhere that would appreciate them (women's shelter? old folks home?) and setting up the direct debit to come from his account…but then that's just me…

    • p1 ama on 31/07/2013 - 00:34

      You are a legend my friend, that's exactly what I'll do, I'll get my friend onto this tomorrow!

      • Tnetennba on 01/08/2013 - 20:30
        +1

        I wouldn't go putting any direct debits on his account before you've contacted the police.. I'm pretty sure it's illegal and could end up biting you in the ass.

    • mr_vino89 on 31/07/2013 - 08:22
      +3

      also send that guy a text message/email notifying him that you've contact the bank and police. This may or may not prompt him to cooperate.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 08:58
      +6

      Um…

      1. You can't open a bank account in a fake name.

      2. Doing what's in the last paragraph could mean your friend is the one facing court.

      • georgedeka on 31/07/2013 - 09:16

        With enough fake id, you can, might be hard but could be done

        • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 09:34

          Hm… More than just "hard" methinks. You have to supply several forms of ID on a points system to open a bank account. Drivers license, medicare card… things that are also virtually impossible to fake. Also a tax file number if you don't want to pay nearly half of your deposits in tax. And things like electricity bills (that would be easier to get with a fake name) provide the least number of ID points.

          The exception would be say, an overseas student, or someone from a country like Indonesia. I know of an Indonesian guy here whose sister was working under a fake name. She was caught by immigration, shipped home, payed (someone in Indonesia!?) for a new identity and passport, hopped on a plane and was back at work in under two weeks.

          (And before anyone suggests it… The guy I know was adopted by her family as a child. So she's not known as his "sister" here, and they have different surnames. I also didn't know where she lived, or any of her "names"… Or else she would have found authorities waiting for her at the airport.)

        • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 10:27
          +2

          You don't need necessarily "100 pts" of ID.
          Generally a birth cert/drivers lic/passport + medicare card is enough. Wouldn't be too hard to fake for someone who knows what they're doing.
          In the OPs case though, I very much doubt he would be dealing with someone like that.

        • ozgriff on 02/08/2013 - 06:32
          +1

          It is a likelihood that he's garnered access to the bank account of some one else (via whatever method, after all they are a scammer).

          However, he still needs to get access to the money and the account needs to be real - I'm sure the bank itself will be wanting to ensure that someone willing to scam using their bank is dealt with accordingly.

    • blitz on 31/07/2013 - 07:36
      +27

      Mate, please stop trying to help your friend in this way. Calling up the scammer pretending to be Scamwatch or something similar is just baloney. The scammer knows that law enforcement don't phone ahead, they visit you in person. Same with the moronic gift subscription idea above which merely creates work for other innocent people, and makes you look like a twit. Making up legal terms in an email also makes you look silly. To be honest, I can't believe either of you thought that any of this whole thing would work.

      Go to the police and the bank. If that doesn't work, go to Small Claims in your state.

      • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 09:07
        +3

        Exactly. If anything, I'd be putting the scammer at ease - not on notice. Say he's giving up, was dumb to take the risk, karma will get them one day, etc. Anything that says, "I'm giving up chasing you." to put the scammer at ease, so they keep using that bank account. Even if it was somehow "fake", they'll be emboldened to keep using it. (They have to be able to withdraw or transfer the money somehow, else it's a very good scam.) Then let police do their job.

        • AlanHB on 31/07/2013 - 10:01
          +2

          "Then let the police do their job"? Really?

          Unless you are going to hack the guys bank accounts, or perhaps go into his house, hold the guy at gunpoint and force him to transfer the cash back, I would stop communication.

          I know it's exciting Paul, being Jason Bourne for a day, but realistically there's nothing in your power to force the guy to do anything. Bet bet is to contact the people who can.

        • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 18:51

          Typo: Should have read, "else it's NOT a very good scam".

        • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 18:52
          +4

          "Then let the police do their job"? Really?

          Yep - really! (!?)

  • SirFlibbled on 31/07/2013 - 10:05
    +1

    Thankfully (kind of) that under the Anti-money laundering laws, banks are required to verify the identity of their customers. So the chances are the bank account is owned by the scammer or someone known to them.

    So if you have their name, you may be able to locate where they really are and an address and sue then in small claims court. But even then that's a lot of time and energy to do that (and then they likely wont pay on judgement anyhow and you'd have to go back for a second crack for an enforcement order).

    The cops wont do anything about it because they're too under resourced to bother.

    Basically there's not much your friend can do at this point.

  • JediJan on 31/07/2013 - 10:14
    +1

    Police and bank asap.

    I only buy or sell using PayPal. If someone cannot handle that they are simply not worth the risk.

  • dealman on 31/07/2013 - 10:26
    +7

    Chalk it up to #StupidTax and move on.
    just don't do the same mistake again, and report it to the police.

    • ozgriff on 02/08/2013 - 06:39
      +3

      Don't let the bad guys get away with makinf StupidTaxes… we get enough of those from the government.

  • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 10:31
    +1

    As I mentioned before, get onto your bank, ask them to load a 'recall of funds request'. You should then contact legal aid in your state and get their professional advice from that point as to what/if you can do from here. You never know, if you have an address they might be able to do up a formal looking letter from you and that might be enough to scare them into returning the money.

    • Shwayne on 31/07/2013 - 11:11
      +1

      I don't think that is possible if you made a cash deposit.

      • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 11:21
        +1

        ah, didn't see the bit about cash over the counter, my bad. Yeah, he's screwed.

  • lisss on 31/07/2013 - 11:34

    Your friend should have used a payment on delivery service from Aust Post or similar.

    From here, the only thing I think he can do is go to the Police and pursue his own legal action.

  • Garagesale on 31/07/2013 - 12:02

    Basically you are stuffed and have lost your money.
    If you had paid by credit card thru paypal u cud have done a chargeback.
    The half with friend payment thing sounds like a mess anyway and wud no doubt have discouraged seller even if he was going to sell in first place.

    Never send money to unknowns..nigerians etc except by cc.
    For small amounts $50 or so u may b ok.

  • Garagesale on 31/07/2013 - 12:04

    The only thing is you dohave the guys bank account and name.
    Mate got scammed like that once so he used the scammers account to pay his ebay fees etc. lol
    Wouldnt advise that though .

  • ilostnemo on 31/07/2013 - 13:02
    +10

    I think paulsterio and his friend are the same person.

    Never Never pay for something, without seeing the item,

    Gumtree is full of Ads for this sort if thing pay 1/2 now 1/2 later, they get a lot of people, all who think they can't lose.
    The good news is you only lost 1/2 your money.

  • OzBrogains on 31/07/2013 - 14:42
    +7

    Lol reminds me of the scene on the Simpsons where Snake pretends to be a wallet inspector.

  • shaiguy on 31/07/2013 - 14:56
    +4

    Same thing happened to me a few years ago. The cops found it was a bank account created with fake details so dead end… I could've pursued the bank but was already so much hassle… was quite a bit of $$ so I always just use paypal these days.

    I reckon your friend is one of these people, News article from a few days ago (link at bottom):

    Police are on the hunt for an online scammer who may have preyed upon more than 300 people in the past year.

    Victoria Police is investigating the extensive series of scams which have been conducted on the online buying and selling website Gumtree since June of 2012.

    A Victoria Police spokeswoman said the victims of the con were members of the public based throughout Victoria and across Australia.

    The scam involves a man contacting people who have posted 'wanted' advertisements on the Gumtree website.

    Advertisement

    The man claims to have the item the victim is searching for.

    A price and terms are negotiated and the offender forwards personal banking details.

    The man then asks where the buyer lives and claims to live nearby, but is reportedly unable to drop the goods off in person because of interstate work.

    But once the victim has transferred money to the man's account the offender severs all contact.

    Information from the victims has led investigators to believe the scam may have been committed more than 300 times.

    The scams so far have involved the attempted purchase of goods including mobile phones, iPads, electronic tablets and gift cards from stores including Coles, Myer and JB Hifi.

    The offender has also been known to provide documents such as a passport, driver's licence and card details in order to alleviate any buyer concerns.

    The man's banking details are most commonly for ANZ, Westpac, St George or Bendigo banks.

    Investigators would like to hear from anyone in Victoria who has been the victim of a similar fraud.

    Police are warning people to ensure they undertake thorough research before making payment.

    The police spokeswoman said reports of online scams could be made to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.

    Anyone with information about similar incidents can also contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or visit www.crimestoppers.com.au.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/hund…

    • tajid on 01/10/2017 - 17:02

      mate, could you turn on your pm please? Just got scammed by somebody here so want some opinion from someone that has talked to the cop before.

      • Baysew on 01/10/2017 - 17:16
        +1

        You are supposed to put your clocks on an hour, not put them back 4 years.

        • tajid on 01/10/2017 - 17:18

          google took me here haha

      • shaiguy on 04/10/2017 - 23:04

        Sorry - didn't realise it was off. It was a while ago but feel free to PM me.

  • Catfaise on 31/07/2013 - 16:01
    +4

    I feel bad for your "friend" but who direct deposits these days? It's not the year 2001. Oh and for something they haven't seen?

    I guess all you can do is print out all the interactions you've had with the scammer and take it to the little men with hats.

    Don't antagonise the scammer by constantly calling him just leave it to the police and wish yourself luck.

  • Macgyver on 31/07/2013 - 16:01
    +1

    Not much I think you can do. Give the details to the police anyway.

    • Frantic on 04/08/2013 - 04:25

      McGyver was always too trusting…

  • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2013 - 17:32
    +2

    This guy might not even be in Australia while doing this.

  • GreatWhiteHunter on 31/07/2013 - 19:59
    +1

    I'd advise the Bank the account owner is a scammer. The bank has a fraud team and they can investigate it. If the account owner doesn't end up being a real person they can at least close the account…

    • GreatWhiteHunter on 31/07/2013 - 21:22
      +1

      The Bank won't recall your money, but they can give the criminals details to the police, and they can close/stop the account.

      The Bank will do something if you ask..

  • Aneurism on 31/07/2013 - 20:27
    +1

    The bank aren't likely to do anything. They will just say you will need to get the receiver to resend the money back. I'd contact the police

  • rezok on 31/07/2013 - 20:38
    +1

    Agree. Don't waste your time with the bank. They won't recall the money on your say so.

    Privacy issues.

    Person argues they sent it ans it got lost?

    move on.

  • retiredfeline on 31/07/2013 - 21:13
    +5

    At least you didn't get stung as hard as this guy:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/it-started-with-a…

    Be careful out there.

    • one man clan on 01/08/2013 - 10:44

      That is actually very sophisticated and impressive.

  • epicaricacy on 31/07/2013 - 23:58
    +1

    I think you have schizophrenic issues. And your friend….

  • Pratty on 01/08/2013 - 09:33
    +1

    Similar thing happened to me. I continued to hassle the seller and they miraculously gave me my money back. I'm a lucky case, but never will I send money on Gumtree again. It went against all instinct, but until you've been burned you never really learn.

    Good luck.

  • andyken on 01/08/2013 - 09:49
    +1

    If something too good to be true defitenely is not true. Do not fall for this. Tell your mate (or you (dont be shy) ) make this your lesson, you wont get your money back but at least you can closed his bank account by notified the bank so he cant scammed another poor soul.

    Ozbargain members got scammed? Dont be shy and pretend ur mate, i got scam once for huggies nappies, but i pay via paypal so i got my money back ;)

  • [Deactivated] on 01/08/2013 - 10:14

    OK - So here are a few things you can think about - but there are a lot of assumptions and the scammer has probably fool proofed the lot:

    1 - The bank account would have to have been opened somewhere, some time with certain credentials. If the account was opened physically (i.e at a bank) you can simple do a BSB search (using the BSB number) and find the branch it was opened in. They would then have footage of the person (if it isn't backdated too far) that opened the account. They may not be real details of the person but at least a picture.

    2 - If the account was opened online - there would be an IP address that can be tracked unless a VPN or proxy was used which can then still be tracked but is more difficult. Once the IP address is tracked - you will get a general location of where the person may be. But even then you get nothing much because the person may well have done it at an internet café etc.

    3 - The money has to be pulled out somehow. Tracing where the bank transfers / withdrawals are occurring and where to they are being sent will be your best bet.

    The police have the power to pull these records but once you find out that bank transfers are occurring internationally then you have to either contact authorities internationally or fly there.

    Even if the transfers occur online and are sent this way you then have to trace what happens to the funds on the receiving end. They could for all you know be sent from account to account to account and THEN withdrawn from the bank.

    I would start with the first 2. If the scammer is noob enough you will find them.

    Otherwise step 3 and onward are a cost / effort / benefit feasibility analysis (is it really worth it?)

    • lousy on 01/08/2013 - 17:45

      Are you implying that the police will go to this much effort over a few hundred dollars?
      They've come to house thefts before where all they do is write up a report and leave never to be seen again…

      • r3volt on 01/08/2013 - 18:28
        +2

        Then they notice he has done it before… I had my house broken into and they only stole a few hundred worth of phone and camera and about 6 months later the detective called me saying to come down and pick it up. Most detectives are actually pretty keen to solve cases.

      • grasstown on 01/08/2013 - 19:32

        but its not just a few hundren, sounds like seller makes a living doing it to many

        • r3volt on 02/08/2013 - 16:29

          Most likely does mate.

  • [Deactivated] on 01/08/2013 - 10:44
    -4

    A fool and his money are soon parted.

    A foole & his money,
    be soone at debate:
    which after with sorow,
    repents him to late.

  • sulmar on 01/08/2013 - 15:24

    Some people are just so naive.

  • Lucky13 on 01/08/2013 - 15:35
    +1

    How long ago was it? You could contact the bank about reversing the payment. Otherwise ring the Police and state the situation and see what they can do or what suggestions theyve got for you. Also keep receipts like youve said you did and keep any emails or contact information you have for them. I mean you made a transfer into the guys account and people need a fair bit of id to open a bank account so its probably a legit bank account, so the Police should be able to track him down and do something. But yeah the quicker you do something the better I guess.

  • ilostnemo on 01/08/2013 - 15:47

    I wonder what would happen, if a miracle did occur and they found the guy, and he replied I sent the computer.

    At the end of the day, this guy is long gone. for eg I can go into an Aussie Post and get a load and go card with no ID, they just want a mobile number. This gives me an account number for $6.95. (virtually untraceable)

    You can also get them at woolworths, bp etc etc.

    Last time I worked at the bank, which granted was a few years ago, the cameras were activated by the staff, ie they weren't recording everything.

  • ethereal88 on 01/08/2013 - 16:41
    +2

    Stupid idiots will always be ripped and as long as there are stupid idiots around there will always be scammers.

    Split a second hand laptop with some random person. Yes, gee, this is so legitimate.

  • 1bug on 01/08/2013 - 23:22

    Most scammers use fake names. Do a google search on the scammer's name (or other details eg. email, phone) to see if they've scammed others as well.

  • Woopdidoo on 01/08/2013 - 23:41

    Yes. Banks can file a 'reversal'. They list them under investigations and can take a while.

    I requested for a reversal from ANZ within 24 hours. And it happened immediately.
    Apparently, it can take up to 3 months to investigate the "scam" or incorrect transfer if after that 24hr time frame.

    My uncle also had someone accidentally send him money. Unknowingly used part of that money to pay bills, mortgage etc. He didn't know until receiving a letter in the mail stating an incorrect transfer was made to his account. The bank demanded that he have $XXXXX amount of money in the account to process the reversal otherwise legal action could be presented by the other party.

    • andyken on 02/08/2013 - 03:47
      +1

      Not direct deposit on the bank teller

  • arnieb on 02/08/2013 - 08:14
    +11

    Don't give up! I got scammed by a phone seller 1 year ago when I received a fake iphone by COD method (yes I was a fool)….I filled out an online police report on qld police website (seller was from there) and then forgot about it. 1 year later got a cheque in the mail for full amount paid! Faith restored!

  • p1 ama on 02/08/2013 - 19:55

    I've linked him to this thread and he said he'll have a read of it and let me know what he decides to do or the outcome. So I guess it's a bit of a wait now, thanks for the tips though guys.

    • Tnetennba on 02/08/2013 - 23:35
      +1

      Why doesn't he just call the police? Seriously, your friend is never going to see that money again if he doesn't…

      • p1 ama on 03/08/2013 - 09:14

        Well I can't call the police for him, though I've linked him to this thread.

        • Tnetennba on 06/08/2013 - 00:34

          Or you can just tell him yourself to call the police… but whatever, you are clearly ignoring most advice here so it's not really my concern anymore..

  • Ughhh on 03/08/2013 - 03:02
    +3

    I think most of these scammers are somewhat professional and organised. You're most likely not their first victim, nor their last, they know what they're doing and they know your friend is bluffing with empty threats.

  • Daabido on 03/08/2013 - 17:27
    +2

    I got scammed on eBay for an iPhone when I paid with direct transfer instead of PayPal. Big mistake. The iPhone didn't come and neither did the other stuff he was selling to other people.

    I finally got my money back after a few weeks when I did a thorough search on him, where he worked, who his Facebook friends were, where his parents went to socialise. Only by getting into his physical world did he agree to repay me.

    I think he was a first time scammer though. If he was more sophisticated then it wouldn't have worked. The other people he scammed did not get repaid, even though I gave them the information I had after I had been repaid.

    • bluedufflecoat on 03/08/2013 - 21:21
      +1

      Maybe they expect to get their money back through PayPal.

  • lakes_8 on 05/08/2013 - 18:46
    +2

    http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8701051

    looks like everyone is looking for him

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