Evangelism at uni? Acceptable or not?

University should a place of learning, knowledge and reasoning. But at Macquarie University, evangelical Christians are very active, they do this by writing christian and jesus crap everywhere on uni ground in chalk, display jesus loves you signs etc. Christians are the ones that does this, no other religion preaches.

http://www.christianunion.org.au/, the group is funded by https://www.afes.org.au/about

Whose goals are

<i>The Fellowship
AFES employs staff to help and encourage students in their Christian growth and witness, and has student groups on campuses in every state and territory in Australia. Groups hold a variety of activities, such as regular public Bible talks, smaller Bible studies, prayer groups, mid-year conferences and outreach events.

AFES provides materials to students for evangelism and Bible study, and releases various publications such as Salt Magazine and the email prayer resource, Prayernet.

The Vision
Proclaiming Jesus Christ at university to present everyone mature in Him.

The Mission
To promote the mission of Christ in Australian universities by building evangelical student groups that:

evangelise students by proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord
encourage growth toward maturity in Christ
train students in the skills and character to serve Jesus and his people
send graduates throughout Australia and the world to serve Christ
</i>

Do you think this acceptable on a University ground?

Poll Options

  • 248
    appropriate
  • 296
    not appropriate
  • 67
    Should be banned

Comments

    • Are you kidding me? The Socialist Alternative has always, always made anti-Semitic comments - in last year's Macquarie Uni's OWeek, the Israeli Jewish Society had to call uni security because of the harassment and intimidation against them.

      1. Australia is a Christian nation. Even our government says so:

      http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/bb8db737e2af84b8ca25…

      1. My Uni had Muslim prayer rooms, but it also had indigenous, parents and queer spaces. Basically any group that was an minority got their own space (including the student union, creative art's students, teaching students and nursing students [engineers had to make do with the bar]).
  • +3

    I'm concerned at any desire here to keep university students wrapped in cotton-wool, where it comes to ideas - so I agree with the people that have raised this as a freedom of speech issue. Following through the implications of your world-view is critical, and Christians are willing to engage with theirs and do that: if Jesus didn't rise from the dead, no-one will (and Christians are to be pitied, as the Apostle Paul says); if Jesus is still alive, it matters greatly.

    I'm with Bill Maher in also saying we fail to distinguish between religions at our peril. University is a time for minds that are being trained to think to think through their (and other people's) world-view.

    Disregarding this fellow Jesus also seems a great way to remain ignorant of so much of Western culture.

    Finally, I think there has been a lack of empathy in distinguishing the honest concern these campus Christians have in taking the action they are: they think (like me) there is a loving Father (he self-identifies as this in the Bible) seen most clearly in real time and space in the person Jesus. I think the OP should turn up to one of the group's public meetings and see that an AFES group is more than interested in 'reason', they trust what they see as reliable - if he can show the resurrection didn't happen, they will throw it all up (I would).

    To the OP: all the best with your time at university - it's an exciting time, and I hope you make time for some involvement with some interesting groups while you are there!

  • +2

    One of these evangelicals once asked me if I had found Jesus. I said yes of course, he was mowing my neighbour's lawn yesterday.

    • Well this forum thread escalated quickly.

  • University should a place of learning, knowledge and reasoning.

    How exactly is it going to change from that if all religious evangelism stops? Besides aren't Universities mostly about training people to serve business and professional work these days?

    • Only a fool thinks we get morality or good guidance from any religion. Just ask Islam and Muslims. Xianity ruled half he world and forced people to learn and go to church and look how evil xians were. Slavery, class systems, inequality of women. Who needs religions that shape the world this way ?

      All religion is about kings and other political leaders lying about a God for their own advantage. The bible is no different. Go check he credentials of the OT authors. They are all examples of your typical Middle East dictator. killer, slavery, rapists, and liar.

      The answer for a better world is a world without ANY religion. Australia as an example is getter and kinder and more caring because less and less people go to church. Just fifty years ago most went to church and yet Australia and its people thought and did terrible things to the aboriginals and thought nothing of its wrongness. In the American civil war it was the xian South fighting to KEEP slavery. In the Sixties here it was also he Bible Belt who were against integration. Today in America, it's the republicans who are the xian side who are against something like universal healthcare. That's right xians in America are against paying more tax to GIvE help to other less fortunate Americans who might need medical care.

      There are zillions more examples , xianity like Islam creates hell.

      • +2

        Learn how to spell Christianity first.

        • -1

          Yeah, they are spelt "chr Insanity"

        • +1

          Spelling does not change the truth of my observations.

          Truth hurts, you can't argue with the facts of history. Christianity by a wide margin has hurt BILLIONS of people for nearly two thousand years, just like ISlam.

          Stop being a hypocrite and accept that xianity has killed more people than any other institution on earth in all human history. The worlds biggest pedophile organisation today is the Christian church. How many more evil firsts do you want me to point out ?

        • +2

          @ninetyNineCents: Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

        • @tryagain:

          I'm sorry you are wrong, and history is my witness.

          Show me a bigger pedophile org in the world than Christian churches. Don't forget to go back and include the crimes of all those orphanages and convents in the past 1800 years.

          Show me a bigger slavery institution than the Christian KingdomS oF Europe ruled by Christian kings under the instruction of Rome and other national churches.

        • +2

          @ninetyNineCents: Where to start I could spend a lot longer than I have picking apart your claimed "facts", "truths" and logic but there is just so much so I will just point out some of the more obvious bits.

          Only a fool thinks we get morality or good guidance from any religion. Just ask Islam and Muslims.

          Islam is a religion so I cant really ask it but I am pretty sure if I ask Muslims if they get morality and good guidance from religion they will say yes

          Xianity ruled half he world and forced people to learn and go to church and look how evil xians were.

          So Christianity forced people to learn and go to Church, Bad stuff happened. therefore it was all the fault of Christianity.

          Slavery, class systems, inequality of women. Who needs religions that shape the world this way ?

          Not me and thankfully Christianity hasn't.

          Then to long of a paragraph to be bothered picking apart.

          There are zillions more examples ,

          Zillions isn't even a real number so I am guessing this is not based on any actual evidence

          xianity like Islam creates hell.

          Seen as though in your world view hell doesn't exist then you are sayiny they create nothing? seems to go against what you have been saying in the rest of the rant.

          Spelling does not change the truth of my observations.

          No but lack of supporting evidence does.

          Truth hurts, you can't argue with the facts of history.

          True but you can certainly cherry pick and distort them which you are doing a fine job of.

          Christianity by a wide margin has hurt BILLIONS of people wide

          margin over what? I assume you can easily point me to the facts you are basing this off, no? didn't think so, you just made it up didn't you?

          Stop being a hypocrite and accept that xianity has killed more people than any other institution on earth in all human history

          How are they being a hypocrite by pointing out spelling mistakes? Christianity is a belief not an institution. People kill people, diseases kill people, accidents kill people, beliefs cant in and of themselves cant kill people.

          The worlds biggest pedophile organisation today.

          Pretty sure any paedophile organisations would try and fly under the radar so I cant see how this is based on any evidence

          and that's all I can be bothered with for now, if I could be bothered I would point out the fallacy of your logic for your flawed arguments as well but I think I would be wasting my time.

        • @ninetyNineCents:
          What's this organisation you speak of? Hold on, I'm not a Catholic.

        • @tryagain:

          You completely skipped the fact that for 1800 years xianity shaped the life of European society and with all that power it completely failed to teach people the evils of slavery, racism and war.

          You completely avoid the fact the churches in Europe controlled everything in all aspects of life, just like Islam does in so many parts of the Arab world. Their backward customs and beliefs are validated by their religion just like the evils I mentioned above are validated by the bible.

          The bible allows chattel slavery. No where in the bible is pedophilia banned.

          Just stop and think of what the bible does ban. There are laws against shaving beards, but nothing against bigger evils like slavery and pedophilia.

          What kind of stupid priorities are those !

          Shariah law is not that different from Moses law. Jesus followed Moses law. In fact no where in the bible does Jesus recommend or cancel Moses law, with all its barbarity and plain stupidities. On all aspects of law Jesus is quoting Moses law. Love thy neighbour is also from Leviticus 19:18. Go read it.

          Even after Jesus left, his apostles continued to be Jews under Moses law. Paul is the one who changed that, no Jesus, not the apostles.

        • @tryagain:

          Go read how all Christian churches helped kings enslave all of Europe.

          Go read in the bible how all the kings hurt their people for their own glory and riches. Not one bible king the same ones who wrote the bible ever helps a single person.

          King David supposedly built an empire, had a massive palace, lots of wives, but how many charitable things did he do ?

          None

          The same for Moses all the way thru the OT.

          Christianity did nothing to give freedom to Europe in all its history. At all stages it tried its best to keep the evil kings in power and the masses as slaves.

        • @SlickMick:

          All xians claim to follow the bible and use it as its sources for teaching and belief.

          They all call themselves xians. Together as a group by their actions and beliefs and history they are responsible for their crimes against humanity, just like Islam is responsible for their crimes against humanity for failing to teach better things and for actively participating in the violence.

        • +2

          @ninetyNineCents:

          I disagree. Islam is drastically different from Christianity.

          I. The Nature of God

          *Islam: One single person, an absolute unity.
          Christianity: Three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
          *Islam: Creator and master of all, but not a father. Human beings are his slaves.
          *Christianity: Father of all creation.

          *Islam: No free will. Allah chooses to send people to hell rather than guide them to the truth.
          *Christianity: Free will. God desires all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

          *Islam: Allah places inclinations to both good and evil within the soul.
          *Christianity: God is good and created man good; evil is the rejection of God.

          *Islam: No limits can be placed upon the sovereignty of Allah, the absolute monarch, including even consistency.
          *Christianity: God is good and consistent in his actions.

          II. Jesus

          *Islam: Jesus is a Muslim prophet, and a human being like any other.
          *Christianity: Jesus is the Son of God, both divine and human.

          *Islam: Jesus was not crucified, but it seemed to the Jews as if he was. He did not die on the cross and so did not rise from the dead and is not anyone’s Savior.
          *Christianity: Jesus was crucified for our sins and rose from the dead to save us from our sins.

          *Islam: Jesus is a human prophet, the nephew of Moses.
          *Christianity: Jesus is the divine Son, and foster-son of St. Joseph.

          *Islam: Jesus announces that Muhammad will come after him and guide mankind to all truth.
          *Christianity: Jesus announces that the Holy Spirit will come after him and guide mankind to all truth.

          *Islam: Jesus will return at the end of the world, destroy Christianity, and Islamize the world.
          *Christianity: Jesus will return at the end of the world to initiate the divine judgment.

          III. Divine Revelation

          *Islam: The biblical prophets were all Muslims who taught Islam. Their messages were twisted and hijacked to create what we know as Judaism and Christianity.
          *Christianity: The biblical prophets were all Jews who were preparing the way for the coming of Christ.

          IV. The Moral Law

          *Islam: There are no moral absolutes beyond what is good for the advance and defense of Islam.
          *Christianity: There are moral absolutes; e.g., those delineated in the Ten Commandments and the precepts derived therefrom.

          *Islam: Deception of unbelievers is allowed when believers are at war or under other kinds of pressure.
          *Christianity: Mental reservation allowed in extreme cases, but never outright deception.

          *Islam: The goods of the unbelievers may be taken as the spoils of war, and unbelievers subjugated under Islamic rule must pay a special tax from which Muslims are exempt.
          *Christianity: Theft, like any intrinsically immoral act, is never justified.

          *Islam: Muslims’ lives are more valuable than those of non-Muslims.
          *Christianity: All human beings are equal in dignity before God.

          *Islam: Virtue is enforced in society by the threat of draconian punishments, ie amputation.
          *Christianity: Virtue involves the free choice of the good.

          *Islam: Many Islamic scholars find no Islamic prohibition for artificial contraception.
          *Christianity: Artificial contraception is a sin against the purposes of marriage.

          *Islam: Abortion is permitted through the first trimester and, according to some scholars, beyond that point.
          *Christianity: Abortion is murder.

          *Islam: A man may marry up to four wives.
          *Christianity: A man cleaves to his wife and they become one flesh.

          *Islam: A man may divorce his wife by saying, “You are divorced.”
          *Christianity: “What God has joined together, let no man put asunder.”

          *Islam: A man may buy sex slaves and keep them in addition to his wives.
          *Christianity: Slavery of any kind is contrary to the dignity of the human person.

          *Islam: In Shi’ite Islam, a man may enter into a temporary marriage, a marriage with a specified ending point.
          *Christianity: Marriage is indissoluble.

        • @christopher8827:

          First of all there not just Ten Commandments in the bible. There are 613,

          God allows slavery the bible is filled with countless examples of how and what can be done by masters to slaves. Your claim about slavery is not from the bible at all, but made up non biblical nonsense.

          Even in the book of Philemon , we have Paul telling the runnawY slave to return to his xian master. Xians continued to believe in slaverry until the 1800s simply because the bible never teaches against it.

          Try quoting the bible next time instead of your made up inventions.

        • @christopher8827:

          In your example of polygamy you dishonestly forgot to mention God allows polygamy in the OT.

          Judaism and Islam have the following similarities.

          Don't eat pork.
          Kosher / halal foods. Practically the same list of items.

          Anti homosexuality
          Polygamy

          Circumcision

          Judgement - end of the world.

          Adam n eve, Noah and all the old bible characters

          Blame the women for all sexual mistakes.

          Inequality of women

          Concept of qibla. Originally Muslims also prayed towards Jerusalem.

          Monotheistic

          Satan

          Angels

          Etc.

        • @christopher8827:

          No where does the bible say abortion is murder. Show me where it says that.

          It's also amazing how you completely avoid mentioning Moses law.

          There is no concept of free speech in the bible. Moses for example kills the sons of Korah simply for daring to disagree with him. Moses also kills fifteen thousand who agree with Korah.

          Even Jesus saw nothing wrong with slavery. He gives plenty of parables about slaves being obedient, but not once does he say slavery is evil and shouldn't be practiced by my followers. How did he forget to say that ?

          That's right your a dishonest person who skips over the ugly truth of xianity just like Muslims who pretend Islam is nice and fuzzy, but recorded history shows quite a different story of both religions in practice.

          Want to find a shithole country just look up xianity or Islam, both today or in the past.

        • @christopher8827:

          Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people

        • +3

          @ninetyNineCents: Your "points" are half baked at best, I spent more time than is worthwhile showing you the the utter baselessness of your arguments, you obviously haven't read the bible as you have no idea what you are talking about there. All you can come up with are the flimisiest of straw man arguments that you would find have all been thoroughly debunked if you did any impartial investigation. If you could come up with ANY supporting evidence for even 10% of you claimed "facts" I would be surprised. This is me not even starting on you logic which is even worse than your facts but to point you in the right direction of seeing your error as I suspect you could use the help, your argument is akin to, Police officers shot a innocent man in the US, there was police corruption back at Kings Cross 30 odd years ago, crime exists, therefore all law enforcement is an evil corrupt instution and responsible for the wrong in the world. You really need to do a alot more research and educate yourself somewhat as wherever you have got your information to form your thoughts is sadly deficient.

        • @SlickMick:

          No what ?

          If im wrong then quote what i said and reply with a correction. Come on your an adult if your going to participate at least write a complete sentence.

        • @ninetyNineCents: "Together as a group…" do you know what protestant means?

        • @tryagain:

          Your "points" are half baked at best,

          Because you say so…

          I spent more time than is worthwhile showing you the the utter baselessness of your arguments

          No you didnt. YOu didnt show any of my claims to be wrong. I have started a list below to show you my points.

          All you can come up with are the flimisiest of straw man arguments that you would find have all been thoroughly debunked if you did any impartial investigation.

          Go make a list of all the bible authors and look at their roles in society.

          Moses - leader of 3 million people, aka a King
          Joshua - same position as Moses
          King David
          King Solomon
          Elijah - high priest
          Samuel - high priest
          Isaiah - high priest
          Jeremiah - high priest
          Ezekiel - high priest
          Elisha - high priest.
          Nathan - high priest

          etc etc

          All these people have the two top jobs in the land. SHow me where these bible authors go about sharing their wealth by building homes for orphans and widows.

          SO how am i lying or incorrect ?

          How about you add another 10 names with their position in life and lets see how many humble starving nobodies are on that list.

          Do you want me to start listing their crimes.

          Moses - killed 15000 (look up sons of Korah) for disagreeing with one of his decisions.

          Go read about it on wiki get the bible chapters and see for yourself. Is Moses a good or evil person ?

        • @tryagain:

          Xianity ruled half he world and forced people to learn and go to church and look how evil xians were.

          So Christianity forced people to learn and go to Church, Bad stuff happened. therefore it was all the fault of Christianity.

          No the reason i blame xianity is because it taught people morals that allowed this bad stuff to happen.

          Xianity taught it was fine for women to be second class citizens and allowed men to treat them often poorly. THis is the same crime that islam is guilty off. It empowers the men folk to treat their women like shit.

          The same goes for slavery. Xianity for nearly 1900 years, never said a bad thing about slavery and in fact it was used to justify it by the church and business men.

          Thats the problem, instead of teaching good things, these religions side with bad men who do evil things and hurt people.

        • @tryagain:

          The worlds biggest pedophile organisation today.

          Pretty sure any paedophile organisations would try and fly under the radar so I cant see how this is based on any evidence

          I guess you better tell the Australian gov for starters who are having a royal commission into churches because of their pedophile problems.

          What a load of crap we all know that churches are at the top of the list, go check news stories and more. The fact is there are millions of victims of churches, even if they are not number 1, they are evil.

        • @tryagain:

          xianity like Islam creates hell.

          Seen as though in your world view hell doesn't exist then you are sayiny they create nothing? seems to go against what you have been saying in the rest of the rant.

          ::

          You need to go read up on the lives of people in old times in Europe when the ancient regime existed.

          Im not discussing that x & islam created ALL hell, im simply stating they created the BIGGEST hell and HURT the most people under their systems.

          Learn to read.

        • @tryagain:

          Christianity by a wide margin has hurt BILLIONS of people wide

          margin over what? I assume you can easily point me to the facts you are basing this off, no? didn't think so, you just made it up didn't you?

          Go read a history book and see for yourself that xian kings eventually ruled the most of the world. Xianity is responsible because priests and popes told and advised and worked for these kings while they built up their empires that killed, slaved, and hurt BILLIONS.

          Xianity was a part of the problem. The soldiers of the kings, did their crimes because the church told them it was fine, which is just like men from ISIS cut off heads and rape women because their holy men say its fine by God. Because of their success these religions have had the opportunity to HURT the billions that they have.

        • @tryagain:

          Stop being a hypocrite and accept that xianity has killed more people than any other institution on earth in all human history

          How are they being a hypocrite by pointing out spelling mistakes? Christianity is a belief not an institution. People kill people, diseases kill people, accidents kill people, beliefs cant in and of themselves cant kill people.

          I suppose your going to say islam isnt a problem, even after seeing what happens in the middle east.

          Islam is supposed to teach morals and yet we can see in Yemen, there are MILLIONS of child brides. Islam controls their lives, tells them what they can eat, what they can do, and so on. If it can manage all that it can also tell them child brides are wrong and condemn the men who do these things. Instead it is a part of the problem because it fails to teach these actions are wrong.

          Another example is ISIS. Everything they do its acceptable and has examples in the Koran & the bible. Mohammad made war and captured slaves and so on, they are only repeating his example. Xians inthe past also repeated the same wars that the jews did in the books of Joshua etc, and at the same time God himself says its fine to do these things.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents: \

          I guess you better tell the Australian gov for starters who are having a royal commission into churches because of their pedophile problems.

          You cant even get the most basic of facts right.

          They are having a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

          See a fact backed up with evidence, something you have failed to do yet

          even if they are not number 1, they are evil

          So you are backtracking, I would like to see your empirical evidence for making this claim.

        • @tryagain:

          I guess you better tell the Australian gov for starters who are having a royal commission into churches because of their pedophile problems.

          You cant even get the most basic of facts right.

          They are having a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse(en.wikipedia.org)

          Who are the main participants ?

          Christian churches.

          Take a look at the introductory background paragraph….Its all about xian churches…Go thru and show me another group that contributes a greater amount to the misery and figures that are sexual assault cases.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Institut…

          >
          During the late 1990s and early 2000s, allegations of child sexual abuse in Australia surfaced in the Roman Catholic Church and a number of other religious and non-religious institutions. Some of these allegations led to a number of convictions, trials and ongoing investigations into allegations of sex crimes committed by Roman Catholic priests and members of religious orders.[2] Some of the allegations relate to alleged incidents that occurred during the 1950s, others in more recent times. There were calls for a Royal Commission since the late 1990s.[3]

          Similar allegations against the Roman Catholic Church had occurred in the United States, Ireland, Canada, Belgium, and several other European countries. In Ireland, the Government Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse was established in 2000 and presented its final report to the Dáil in 2009, covering allegations of child abuse from 1936 onwards.[4]
          <

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_c…
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases…

        • @tryagain:

          even if they are not number 1, they are evil

          So you are backtracking, I would like to see your empirical evidence for making this claim.

          Im not backtracking at all. The number one pedophile organisation in Australia are xian churches.

          There may be many other individuals, but nobody beats the collective sexual abuse of xianity in Australia. The same is true for the world as a whole.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          Take a look at the introductory background paragraph….Its all about xian churches

          Well not its not, the first paragraph is about the Catholic Church and its a grand sum of about 10% of the background. Abuse happened across the board at both Government run facilities as well as NGOs, of course this includes Christian Churches as they perform a decent chunk of the social services in this country like providing care to disadvantaged children so it would go without saying that they would be represented in this. The fact that the abuse happened across the board not just in the Christian organisations shows that this is not an issue with the Christian faith but with society at large, sure some Christian institutions failed in their duty of care to protect innocent children as did Government and other NGOs and they deserve to be held to account but if this was a Christian issue as opposed to a societal issue it would be purely the Christian Churches who have been culpable.

        • @tryagain:

          Well not its not, the first paragraph is about the Catholic Church and its a grand sum of about 10% of the background.

          Abuse happened across the board at both Government run facilities as well as NGOs, of course this includes Christian Churches as they perform a decent chunk of the social services in this country like providing care to disadvantaged children so it would go without saying that they would be represented in this.

          After school, more kids goto xian schools, churches and in the past orphanges etc than any other organisation in Australia. Thats a fact. Where kids go there will be opportunities for evil people to hurt kids.

          Of course there are more individuals out there doing evil, but they are not an ORGANISATION, they are individuals pretty much unconnected.

          Therefore when i say "xianity" is the biggest pedophile organisation in the world, i am right, simply because of the scale of all the xian religions, their schools, orphanages and other community type facilities they run.

        • @tryagain:
          ristian faith but with society at large,

          sure some Christian institutions failed in their duty of care to protect innocent children as did Government and other NGOs

          Sorry your wrong. The catholic church and others have made it their POLICY to shift priests and other KNOWN pedophiles in their orgs.

          Thats a FACT. That makes those orgs part of the problem. IN fact Pope Benedict made it church law that anyone cooperating with police on the matter of pedophilia is basically condemned to hell , excommunicated etc.

          Our government makes lot of mistakes, but no Australian PM has ever threatened any head of any gov body with being fired or putting them in some secret base.

          Our gov at the very least does try and stop pedophilia and does not as a whole try and completely avoid justice against pedophile government employees etc.

          Next your going to be telling me islam isnt to blame for its examples via Mohammad that pedophilia is acceptable.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          I suppose your going to say islam isnt a problem, even after seeing what happens in the middle east.

          I dont really know enough about Islam to make a well informed comment but clearly the "Radical" followers of Islam are doing all sorts of terrible things in the name of their religon, there seem to be a large majority of more "moderate" followers who are not. I do think the more moderate should be more vocal of the denunciations of radical followers however.

          Xians inthe past also repeated the same wars that the jews did in the books of Joshua etc, and at the same time God himself says its fine to do these things.

          Which wars would these be that the Christians repeated?

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          When are you going to reply to these comments ?

          You have a big mouth claiming i lied and so on, but i have replied with more details to back my claims about the evilness of the bible authors. Heres a good start from me, to prove my point. I can easily continue…

        • @tryagain:

          Xians inthe past also repeated the same wars that the jews did in the books of Joshua etc, and at the same time God himself says its fine to do these things.

          Which wars would these be that the Christians repeated?

          • Crusades which literally went for hundreds of years.
          • many wars in old Europe, eg Spains wars against uncatholic England because it left.
          • the xian wars of conquest that "converted" europe to christianity. Go read what they did in places like Latvia. This same thing happened EVERYWHERE xianity is today.

          On the last point, the only reason we have for xianity being in a lot of palces is because those natives were FORCED by pain of death. After being forced they became slaves of xian europeans and at no stage did the church condemn. In fact it gave these tasks to these europeans.

          If you were to attempt to list all the deaths and pain thats hundreds of years and BILLIONS of victims.

          Just like Islam is a political opponent, so was xianity in the past. The French and Russian revolutions knew this about their major churches, and the west is learning this today about Islam. Religion serves a single purpose and thats as a political tool of the elites at the top. The bible itself repeats this message. Xian kings and priests who ruled Israel made up their visions and made up the same Moses laws for their advantage. Thats why the bible says slavery is ok, and generosity is an after thought and kings and the same priests do anything to keep their power, just like islamic religious leaders today and their collaborators.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          Of course there are more individuals out there doing evil, but they are not an ORGANISATION, they are individuals pretty much unconnected.

          So you are saying that Christian organisations sit down and plan how to be paedophile organisations and how they are going to take advantage of innocent children because this is what they would have to be doing to be a Paedophile organisation as opposed to individuals doing evil working within an organisation that provide them access to children. From what I can ascertain due to better protections being put in place in western countries paedophiles find it easier to travel too third world countries now where it is easier for them to get away with their heinous crimes as opposed to staying here in Australia.

        • +1

          When I get time, Don't think I have said you lied but I certainly think your guilty making comments or ascertains with little regard for the facts.

          Question still stands

          Which wars would these be that the Christians repeated?

        • @tryagain:

          So you are saying that Christian organisations sit down and plan how to be paedophile organisations

          Yet again you are putting words in my name that i never said. I never said they planned to be pedo orgs.

          All i am saying is by their actions they have created the LARGEST pedo org on earth. There are countless examples of them being part of the problem and not giving their members over to the police when they know about.

          If anybody like the church knows about a pedo and can give them over for justice to the police, if they dont they are part of the problem. Do i really need to repeat how often the churches moved pedos to new places and put them in positions near children etc.

          Do us all a favour and be honourable enough to stop making up bullshit that i have not said nor have a i remotely said anything like.

        • @tryagain:

          Look up two comments. Hundreds of years of examples and MILLIONS and BILLIONS of victims.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          Yet again you are putting words in my name that i never said.

          Honestly just trying to make sense of your nonsensical arguments.

          All i am saying is by their actions they have created the LARGEST pedo org on earth

          I am either guessing that English isn't your first language or that you don't have a great command of writing as by definition the CSIRO or Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation primary purpose is Scientific and Industrial Research like wise a Paedophile Organisations primary purpose would be furthering the interests of Paedophiles.

          Do i really need to repeat how often the churches moved pedos to new places and put them in positions near children etc

          Yes and while you are at it show me as a percentage of the amount of times Churches have moved people. I am pretty sure it would be infinitesimally small.

        • @tryagain:

          I suppose your going to say islam isnt a problem, even after seeing what happens in the middle east.

          I dont really know enough about Islam to make a well informed comment but clearly the "Radical" followers of Islam are doing all sorts of terrible things in the name of their religon, there seem to be a large majority of more "moderate" followers who are not. I do think the more moderate should be more vocal of the denunciations of radical followers however.

          This is where you are wrong again. The Radicals of today are only doing the same things as other islamic groups did in the past and present. THe mid east has been filled with ambitious people all claiming divine choice since Mohammad.

          The two factions of Islam, the Shia and Sunni are of course arguing about who is the rightful leader of Islam. After Mohammad, 9 out of the first 10 caliphs were killed by another friend trying to grab power. Thats how things roll in the middle east. Leaders kill the people, make wars, tell their troops its gods will. MOhammad was a warmonger himself, they are only copying his examples, because Mohammad was only legitimizing their ways.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          Sorry your wrong. The catholic church and others have made it their POLICY to shift priests and other KNOWN pedophiles in their orgs.

          Thats a FACT. That makes those orgs part of the problem. IN fact Pope Benedict made it church law that anyone cooperating with police on the matter of pedophilia is basically condemned to hell , excommunicated etc.

          There some pretty big claims, care to back them up with proof?

        • @tryagain:

          I am either guessing that English isn't your first language or that you don't have a great command of writing as by definition the CSIRO or Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation primary purpose is Scientific and Industrial Research like wise a Paedophile Organisations primary purpose would be furthering the interests of Paedophiles.

          Here we go again, with your pathetic attempts to deny the simple facts that the xianity churches of Australia by count of the sexual abuses cases beat all other orgnisations in Australia. When these churches attempt to hide their criminal members they are participating in the conspiracy and become amongst many other things a pedophile organisation.

        • @tryagain:

          Yes and while you are at it show me as a percentage of the amount of times Churches have moved people.

          We have written proof that its church policy to hide or move KNOWN PEDOPHILE members. Thats conspiracy.

          I am pretty sure it would be infinitesimally small.

          In other words your just making bullshit up. It doesnt matter if it happens only a few times, if its church policy and the church helps move ANY, then they are part of the problem. As time passes, its obvious from news reports that the more time passes the more victims come out and the more the church owns up to helping those criminal members.

          Quite a habit of yours isnt it.

          Throw insults, make up things that i never said and then ignore when i provide proofs that back my claims.

          Show some honour and and be truthful for once.

        • @tryagain:

          Thats a FACT. That makes those orgs part of the problem. IN fact Pope Benedict made it church law that anyone cooperating with police on the matter of pedophilia is basically condemned to hell , excommunicated etc.

          There some pretty big claims, care to back them up with proof?

          Is the NYT good enough for you ?

          http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/opinion/25thur1.html?_r=0

          There are also questions about Benedict’s directive as a Vatican cardinal in 2001 that bishops worldwide were to keep pedophilia investigations secret under threat of ex-communication. <<

          thats not proof that the catholic church is the LARGEST PEDOPHILE ORGANISATION. THere are plenty of other similar directives by other xian churches.

          Do yourself a favour and before you go about making bullshit, do some research so you actually are informed before you open your dishonourable lying mouth. Unlike yourself everything i have said is TRUTH. Yet again i back it with undisputable sources.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          be truthful for once

          Show me once where I haven't been.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          Can you post a link then to the written proof of this policy

        • @tryagain:

          You challenge me to a point, and after i show absolute proof that backs my case, you dont have the grace to say i was right.

          You often just make up facts, just like your guess where you said "you think" or similar words.

          Heres another example from Pope Francis himself where he admits the Catholic church is a pedophile org and how the church has done basically NOTHING in handing over those priests.

          http://www.religionnews.com/2014/07/14/pope-francis-raises-e…

          VATICAN CITY (RNS) "Many of my advisers who are fighting it with me are giving me reliable data that estimates pedophilia inside the church at a level of 2 percent,” Pope Francis was quoted as saying.

        • @tryagain:

          Well take this catholic church pedophile organisation claim by me. Ive showed you PROOF that it helps pedophiles on a monumental scale and you still have not admitted my label is correct. i showed it was churc policy TO HIDE PEDOPHILES.

          Where is honour in admitting you were wrong ?

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:
          No just pointing out that your often repeated claim of Christian churches being Paedophile Organisation as being plainly wrong.

        • @tryagain:

          Catholics make up at least the majority of all xians. With that majority my label is COMPLETELY TRUE. Its not hard to find similar policies in place by other xian churches.

          I havent lied and yet again i show proof for my statements. Have you represented truth and fact in all your claims ? O rwill you run away simply to avoid admission of a failed assertion.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          You challenge me to a point, and after i show absolute proof that backs my case, you dont have the grace to say i was right.

          What point have you shown me absolute proof on? I havent seen any proof yet on anything I have challenged you to back up with fact

          You often just make up facts, just like your guess where you said "you think" or similar words.

          When I write I think that is not me making up a fact that is stating something I believe that is why I write it, You on the other hand write FACT after your statements that you have absolutley no proof for.

          Heres another example from Pope Francis himself where he admits the Catholic church is a pedophile org and how the church has done basically NOTHING in handing over those priests.

          No where in that link does the Pope admit to or even use the phrase Paedophile Organisation, or does it say what the church has or hasn't done. Did you actually read it? He Talks about 2% of the Catholic Church likely being Paedophiles which is about the same as society in general.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          Ive showed you PROOF that it helps pedophiles on a monumental scale

          I must have missed that can you post the link to that again.

          i showed it was churc policy TO HIDE PEDOPHILES.

          Once again what was the link to the proof?

          Where is honour in admitting you were wrong ?

          I have no issue admitting when I am wrong. Obviously you do.

          I am pretty sure you are just trolling as the standard of these arguments don't leave really any other possibility

        • @tryagain:

          What point have you shown me absolute proof on? I havent seen any proof yet on anything I have challenged you to back up with fact

          I showed you it was Catholic church policy to help pedophiles evade the law. That makes amongst their many other jobs a pedophile organisation because they help pedophiles.

          No other organisation in the world has as its policy past or present to help pedophiles avoid the police.

          You have no shame.

        • @tryagain:

          i showed it was churc policy TO HIDE PEDOPHILES.

          Once again what was the link to the proof?

          I showed you the NYTs article. It admits that Pope Benedict made it church policy to excommunicate anyone helping police in pedo cases.

          Shame on you, your nothing but a scum bag liar.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          I showed you it was Catholic church policy to help pedophiles evade the law.

          You have stated this several times but still no proof, just because you say it doesn't make it true.

          This is getting really old really fast, either post some proof like you claim you have or I am going to tire lose interest very quickly

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          I showed you the NYTs article. It admits that Pope Benedict made it church policy to excommunicate anyone helping police in pedo cases.

          If you did I must have missed it can you post it again.

        • @tryagain:

          You have stated this several times but still no proof, just because you say it doesn't make it true.

          The pope told all members not to cooperate with the police. That makes it church policy. How is that NOT a church policy if everyone is supposed to do it ?

          http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/opinion/25thur1.html

          There are also questions about Benedict’s directive as a Vatican cardinal in 2001 that bishops worldwide were to keep pedophilia investigations secret under threat of ex-communication <<
          .

        • @tryagain:

          Run away when your caught out lying and your argument is wrong.

          We have seen this before. I said the OT bible authors were all evil criminals and showed examples for 10 and you abandoned that because you dont want to walk that path.

          Typical.

        • @ninetyNineCents: Ill Happily reply to that, while I am at it do you want to reply to this earlier one while we are talking about honesty.

          Heres another example from Pope Francis himself where he admits the Catholic church is a pedophile org and how the church has done basically NOTHING in handing over those priests.

          (http://www.religionnews.com/2014/07/14/pope-francis-raises-e…)

          "No where in that link does the Pope admit to or even use the phrase Paedophile Organisation, or does it say what the church has or hasn't done. Did you actually read it? He Talks about 2% of the Catholic Church likely being Paedophiles which is about the same as society in general."

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          Ahh I finally see the infamous link, you have misrepresented it a quite a bit by saying that

          The pope told all members not to cooperate with the police.

          When in fact it was they were to "keep paedophilia investigations secret" there is a pretty big difference between not cooperating with police and not making internal investigations known to the police but at least its kind of close to what you claimed.

        • @ninetyNineCents:
          I didnt respond to this one because I couldnt really figure out what point you were trying to make, can you clarify it for me?
          edit Ill add it in here

          Go make a list of all the bible authors and look at their roles in society.

          Moses - leader of 3 million people, aka a King
          Joshua - same position as Moses
          King David
          King Solomon
          Elijah - high priest
          Samuel - high priest
          Isaiah - high priest
          Jeremiah - high priest
          Ezekiel - high priest
          Elisha - high priest.
          Nathan - high priest

          etc etc

          All these people have the two top jobs in the land. SHow me where these bible authors go about sharing their wealth by building homes for orphans and widows.

          SO how am i lying or incorrect ?

          How about you add another 10 names with their position in life and lets see how many humble starving nobodies are on that list.

          Do you want me to start listing their crimes.

          Moses - killed 15000 (look up sons of Korah) for disagreeing with one of his decisions.

          Go read about it on wiki get the bible chapters and see for yourself. Is Moses a good or evil person ?

        • @tryagain:

          When in fact it was they were to "keep paedophilia investigations secret" there is a pretty big difference between not cooperating with police and not making internal investigations known to the police but at least its kind of close to what you claimed.

          Knowing about a crime and not telling the police is a crime in itself. Thats conspiracy linking pedophiles and the entire church.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          Knowing about a crime and not telling the police is a crime in itself

          No its not but, There are however now some mandatory reporters for those who suspect child abuse but excluding SA these don't include Priests.

          Thats conspiracy linking pedophiles and the entire church.

          Well I have already proven your point that somehow miraculously leads to this conclusion void so that would also prove this void, but even if your first point was correct it doesn't in any way indicate that the entire Church would be complicit.

          I am tiring of pointing out all the short comings of your arguments and think I have done this one to death about 5 times over, I would be happy to respond to your earlier one about the OT authors if you can tell me what the actual point is you are trying to make.

      • +1

        As far as I'm aware, this is the first culture who's so smart as to "know" there is no God, that we can explain away everything. Some of these explanations either don't exist yet, or require more faith than admitting that there is something bigger than we can comprehend.
        Meanwhile, God says you'd have to be a fool to no not recognise His design in nature.

        • Yes I agree.

          God is like the creative force or fundamental structure that allows everything to exist. Those who does not acknowledge God or "know" there is no God then you might as well ignore your own existance and nature.

          On the other hand, the existance of one single human being as Jesus who solely contributed to the teachings in the bible is highly questionable and highly improbable.

        • @sintro:

          I'm sorry but Jesus didn't teach anything new. Everything he said can be found in the OT. The problem is xians try and avoid the OT because it's a disgrace to think just how grotesque and evil it is with all its similarities with shariah law.

          How does one explain God wrote shariah law and its in the bible, and called Moses law ?

        • +1

          @sintro:

          Your conception of God is borderline Pantheism - he's not a being among other beings in this world nor is he an impersonal force. As St. Thomas Aquinas defines it, God is Ipsum esse subsistens (Subsistent Act of Existing Itself).

          Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, with Christ as the long-awaited Messiah. Of course, Jesus didn't write the Gospels… it was his Apostles and St. Paul who wrote them under Divine Inspiration, just like the Old Testament.

        • Lots of people in history have acknowledged there is no God, eg Voltaire.

          It's just religion is such a powerful tool, the kings and rulers use it to their advantage. Look at bin laden , for all his show, he lived in luxury while other fools died for him. Notice he kept his family out of harms way because he knows there is Allah in heaven. None of those ayatollahs fight or send their sons, it's always some else's son.

          Religion is always a power tool, nothing more or less. The leaders just pretend it's true. The difference is today we have freedoms to mention it.

        • +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          That's literally illogical. Politics itself would be an better tool to use instead. Take advantage of people's weakness in logic & reason by pure emotionalism, declare certain minorities are oppressed, therefore giving them a excuse so that we need to give them special 'rights' in the name of 'love' and 'equality'. Then hand over to them enormous political clout to reform society according to their preferences.

          Why create a theology and philosophy and background history, hey, let's not forget the Catholic Church's Canon and Ecclesiastical Laws that are founded on Roman Empire Law, that will take hundreds of years to form when politics is the more accessible tool?

        • @christopher8827:

          You fail to appreciate that religion and the claim of divine will gave rulers obedience.

          Just look at Islam and the total control it gives to the corrupted evil rulers there. That's exactly the same story we can find in the bible or xian Europe before it got democracy.

          People live and died for bin laden so bullshit claims because they believed it was gods will. He didn't need to point guns at his fighters , they fight and died for him willingly. That's the power of religion.

          There is no logic in religion or belief. Belief is the most stupid reason of all. The dictionary literally states that belief means to accept something as truth without any facts. I'm paraphrasing but that's what the word means.

        • @christopher8827:

          Jesus is not the messiah. There are no prophecies about Jesus at all in the OT.

          Not one verse says Jesus or pinpoints any perfect prediction.

          Feel free to quote three and let's read what they really say as acompared to the supposed claim. Bible pricey is about as perfect as newspaper horoscopes.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          "We preach Christ Crucified."

        • @christopher8827:

          That sentence is in the past tense. I challenge you to share a prophecy about Jesus from the OT. Try again this time include a link to the actual scriptures using biblehub or any other online bible and let us all READ exactly what it says and see it if it really talks about Jesus and anything he did.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          I'm sorry but Jesus didn't teach anything new. Everything he said can be found in the OT.

          I never said he taught anything new. In fact “There Is Nothing New Under The Sun” Ecclesiastes 1:4-11
          The problem is that people are so trapped in their own reglious mindset and are too wilfully ignorant to go and learn the truth for themselves.

          How does one explain God wrote shariah law and its in the bible, and called Moses law ?

          Because it's all the same GOD, the same creative force that allows galaxies, stars planets, humans, cells, atoms, planck particles to exist. The religious believers are fighting amongst themselves over the same God, it is a joke how mind controlled they are.

          What we really need to understand are the Laws in Nature that govern the consequences of human behaviour.
          There is a linear correlation between the moral actions of a society and freedom of the people in that society and where the immoral actions of a society contributes to the human condition called slavery.

          @ninetyNineCents:
          You are one of the more consciously aware amongst "The Dead" here. Can you send me a private message?
          I want to share something with you.

        • @sintro:

          You are one of the more consciously aware amongst "The Dead" here. Can you send me a private message?
          I want to share something with you.

          Share it here. If its true then theres nothing wrong with sharing it with everyone.

          Because it's all the same GOD, the same creative force that allows galaxies, stars planets, humans, cells, atoms, planck particles to exist.

          There is no god. THeres a big difference between the forces of nature and the bullshit that MOhammad and the bible authors claim just to justify their position as kings and leaders. Thats a big difference.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          Share it here. If its true then theres nothing wrong with sharing it with everyone.

          I've already shared this before in another thread:
          "Help finding an idiot proof washing machine"
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/158649#comment-2210895

          Please watch this 3 part 8 hour seminar in full.
          It will greatly improve your current understand of the human condition we are in. I feel you are the one that will most benefit from this. It is more convinient to download it to your mobile device to watch it. I can give you more info on how to do it.

          There is no god. THeres a big difference between the forces of nature and the bullshit that MOhammad and the bible authors claim just to justify their position as kings and leaders. Thats a big difference.

          That is why you need to differential between the all uppercase "GOD", the creative force in nature. And the pretend "Gods", that rule over people and make them believe they are Gods.

        • @sintro:

          For starters dont call nature God. God only exists because evil areshole liars like the bible authors, mohammd etc invent him so they can justify their positions and goals.

          The forces of nature really exist, so use the proper term. Gravity is gravity, God of the bible or koran or any other book is an imaginery tool of those barbarians.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          I know what you mean brother.
          Gods is just another word they used to replace the word Annunaki in those book.

          Please watch the seminar.

        • @christopher8827:

          Your conception of God is borderline Pantheism

          Yeah maybe close but not quite as don't need to whorship anything and I'm willing to drop the term God all together.

          Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, with Christ as the long-awaited Messiah.

          You have to stopping thinking of Christ as something or some being that is external. It is the Christ within that you need to understand, you can wait your whole life for an external savior but if you don't understand something as basic as your own internal Trinity and take the appropriate action then you are as good as DEAD.

        • @sintro:

          Who needs Jesus ?

          He is hardly a good example. He is just as flawed as all other barbarians in those days. All of us here today are a thousand times better, kinder and better people than Jesus ever was.

          I dont think slavery is fine, and i think women are equal. WIth just those two ideas i am already better than Jesus or anyone else inthe bible. Im pretty sure everybody here also thinks similar things about these two topics.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          No. We don't need Jesus.

          But at least acknowledge the SUN and how the movement of the Sun throughout the year gives life and takes life from this planet. The story of the birth of Jesus is nothing more than THE RE-BIRTH OF THE SUN FROM THE DEAD AFTER 3 DAYS…THE WINTER SOLSTICE.
          http://jesusastrotheology.com/wintersoltice.htm

          If you think Slavery is not fine then start to watch the Natural Law Seminar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUHN3gNxWo&list=PLnzMmEt4pI… it will explain to you how to break out of the current human condition of slavery.

          Here's a slide from the seminar:

          "AUTHORITY"

          • An ILLUSION of a diseased psyche, based entirely in VIOLENCE and built upon erroneous and dogmatic BELIEF that some people are Masters who have the moral right to issue commands, and others are Slaves who have a moral obligation to obey Masters.

          • The belief in the legitimacy of "Authority" is the belief in the legitimacy of SLAVERY.

          • Ultimately, "Authority" is the idea that Man can become God and, through "jurisdiction," dictate the Law.

        • @sintro:

          I hate slavery partly because i dont like violence and partly because we are all descendants of slaves at some time in our pasts.

          The problem is xians fail to see their hero Jesus is just as bad an example as Mohammad or anyone else in between. Nobody reads the bible when they are sick, we goto the doctor. The same goes for many other aspects of our lives, we all know our world is better than the bibles, so why pretend that we want or need it.

        • @sintro:

          it will explain to you how to break out of the current human condition of slavery.

          Im sorry nobody in Australia is a slave. Its a disgrace to pretend because you have bills you are somehow a slave. OUr ancestors who were slaves , were beaten, killed and always in fear and hungry and so on. None of us are like that.

          So be truthful and use the proper words, dont copy xian types who twist and change words to paint a different picture, because thats deceptive and dishonest.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          So be truthful and use the proper words, dont copy xian types who twist and change words to paint a different picture, because thats deceptive and dishonest.

          There was no word twisting… the seminar will explain to you how to break out of the CURRENT human condition of slavery. Not the PAST salvery condition because it is in the present that we need to learn and take action.

          I acknowledge that slavery never ended but the conditions have changed (most people think they have freedom but it's an illusion)and the way for humanity to move towards freedom require people to stop being wilfully ignorant then learn, understand and to try and live in harmony with Natural Law which governs consequences of human behaviour. (A law in nature like Gravity.)

        • @sintro:

          There was no word twisting… the seminar will explain to you how to break out of the CURRENT human condition of slavery. Not the PAST salvery condition because it is in the present that we need to learn and take action.

          Im sorry we are not slaves today. As i stated previously we ALL in Australia have pretty good lives. None of us live in fear from being killed by our employers etc, like slaves in the old days.

          Dont hijack what slavery really means and try and pretend we are in anyway as unlucky as those poor barstards.

          They suffered a pretty miserable life, our lives are nothing like that. We are not slaves. Paying bills like mortgages etc is not slavery. There are plenty of other words, use them.

        • @sintro:

          Will listen to it while i work ;b. Just heading out for a walk.

        • @sintro:

          I acknowledge that slavery never ended but the conditions have changed (most people think they have freedom but it's an illusion)and the way for humanity to move towards freedom require people to stop being wilfully ignorant then learn, understand and to try and live in harmony with Natural Law which governs consequences of human behaviour.

          Im just saying when you repurpose the word you take away and weaken the true cruelty and sadness of what slavery was. We have it much easier, what we do is work, you might not like your job and all that but dont call yourself a slave.

          You wouldnt call yourself a rape victim simply because you work perhaps on the weekends or extra hours and thats my point about slavery and labelling yourself a slave. Xians also call themselves slaves of christ and other things which is of course dishonest for the same reason. A slave doesnt get weekends of like they do. I call them liars when i hear them use words incorrectly and dishonest like that as well.

          When we are all honest about what words really mean, it becomes very clear that religious people are all liars on so many areas of their claims, its sad and its obviously how fraudulent they are. Thats why in my conversations with others here, i have backed some of my claims with bible quotes and i have equally asked them to go and show me where the bible backs their own claims. If we set a higher standard and dont lie and twist words like others, then we can show them for the lying scumbags that they are. Perhaps then they might learn to be truthful and examine themselves a little harder and more honestly.

          As we have seen they run away from that challenge because they know they are lying to themselves and to us here.

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          I know you are uncomfortable of using the word slavery to describe the current condition but enslavement has been transmuted over the last two hundred years from overtly physical forms to covertly psychological one.

          Government is based on this illusory and false concept called Authority. People think certain people are authorities that they actually have rights that other people don't have, the right to command, compel, coerce and tell people this is right, this is what you are gonna do and if you disagree, I have to power to actually compel, coerce or constrain you against your will.

          It is another RELIGION. Anybody who believes in that authority is legitimate and government is legitimate, wether they want to admit it or not, know it or not or understand it or not, they are advocating the legitmacy of SLAVERY.

          If you believe in these concepts you are a supporter of SLAVERY. - THE END. That's how it really is, not because I said so because that's how it really is. It's called mind control, for somebody who thinks slavery is legitimate, you gotta be in deep mind control. You gotta be either that or a sick psychopathic absolute piece of garbage.

          Take prohibition for example.

          You OWN your own body and you get to decide what goes into it and does not go into it. If someone else is making the claim that they have the right tell someone what they may or may not put in their body, that's a claim of ownership on the body, physically. And what's a claim on ownership on a human body called?

          It is called SLAVERY!

          If somebody can tell you what you can and can't do, you're their SLAVE - THE END.

        • @sintro:

          last two hundred years from overtly physical forms to covertly psychological one.

          Slavery by definition means you are the property of a master and have no freedom. Im sorry im nobodys slave, and im pretty sure you have free time do as you wish as well as do may other Australians.

          Government is based on this illusory and false concept called Authority.

          That may be true, and i will agree theres a lot of bullshit around the place, but ultimately we are not slaves. We are both free to do what we wish outside work and that makes us NOT slaves.

          It is another RELIGION.

          Not quite, religion exists because of political ambitions of certain people, not the other way around. The agenda of all religions is to give power to some group or a person.

          Anybody who believes in that authority is legitimate and government is legitimate, wether they want to admit it or not, know it or not or understand it or not,

          they are advocating the legitmacy of SLAVERY

          Nonsense, the two items are completely separate.

          There is no slavery in Australia (except for criminals doing it outside the law). You might like the gov in all its layers, but we still have freedoms. Slaves dont. We dont suffer violence, rape, death and other things that come with slavery. YOu as a person fail those tests, they are the things that define what slavery is.

          If you have freedom from those things, you are not a slave.

        • @sintro:

          If somebody can tell you what you can and can't do, you're their SLAVE

          We all need rules otherwise it chaos. Just because we have laws about which side of the road we drive doesnt make us slaves. Go read what slavery actually means…

        • @ninetyNineCents:

          True definition of Salvery = All Evil.

          Control

          Evil seeks to be a master over you. Evil wants you to be a slave.

          What we consider as real “slavery” is indeed only one form of slavery. The African slaves in the United States were compelled to work and toil for other people's benefit. Their lives were mostly controlled for the benefit of the master, but they had some very limited freedoms. Some were able to create distinct traditions and maintain families. They did their best to build joy into their lives despite the tyranny wrought upon them.

          Because they were in control of portions of their lives, were they free?
          How much freedom does a person deserve?
          How much freedom can be destroyed before we recognize that it is evil?

          Slavery is not a concept of totality. Slavery exists wherever the freedom of man is destroyed. Theft and bullying are slavery. In history, African natives, Jews and many others have experienced lifelong slavery. The ultimate slavery is murder. Slavery stops people from being able to make choices for their own lives.

          Everything that restricts your mind, your movements and your speech is evil. Slavery is found in both the partial and complete destruction of freedom.

          Evil compels you to behave in manners that do not benefit you or those you love. Culture and law exercise overwhelming force in the name of propriety and public good. They destroy freedom, and put human lives under other people's control.

        • @sintro:

          True definition of Salvery = All Evil.

          No its not, go read a dictionary. You are repeating the same corruption of text that xians and muslims do when they try and get around the evils in their holy books.

          The African slaves in the United States were compelled to work and toil for other people's benefit.

          Im sorry you also forgot that EVERYBODY even the peasants in Europe were slaves of their local Lords. The English word "slave" comes from the fact the German kingdoms used to goto the slavic lands and pick up their "slaves" there.

          While USA did have slaves, most African slaves ended up in Brazil by a factor of 10x. Im sorry my friend you have been watching to much American tv.

          Everything that restricts your mind, your movements and your speech is evil.

          Like i said before its important to use words correctly and not invent new definitions that are not what everybody actually expects them to mean.

          No thats a lack of freedom and liberty its not slavery.

          http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slavery?s=t

          1. thralldom, enthrallment. Slavery, bondage, servitude refer to involuntary subjection to another or others. Slavery emphasizes the idea of complete ownership and control by a master: to be sold into slavery. Bondage indicates a state of subjugation or captivity often involving burdensome and degrading labor: in bondage to a cruel master. Servitude
        • @ninetyNineCents:

          No thats a lack of freedom and liberty its not slavery.

          Your lack of freedom and liberty contributes to the varying degrees of Slavery.

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