Evangelism at uni? Acceptable or not?

financialwar on 11/08/2015 - 19:00
Last edited 11/08/2015 - 19:46

University should a place of learning, knowledge and reasoning. But at Macquarie University, evangelical Christians are very active, they do this by writing christian and jesus crap everywhere on uni ground in chalk, display jesus loves you signs etc. Christians are the ones that does this, no other religion preaches.

http://www.christianunion.org.au/, the group is funded by https://www.afes.org.au/about

Whose goals are

<i>The Fellowship
AFES employs staff to help and encourage students in their Christian growth and witness, and has student groups on campuses in every state and territory in Australia. Groups hold a variety of activities, such as regular public Bible talks, smaller Bible studies, prayer groups, mid-year conferences and outreach events.

AFES provides materials to students for evangelism and Bible study, and releases various publications such as Salt Magazine and the email prayer resource, Prayernet.

The Vision
Proclaiming Jesus Christ at university to present everyone mature in Him.

The Mission
To promote the mission of Christ in Australian universities by building evangelical student groups that:

evangelise students by proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord
encourage growth toward maturity in Christ
train students in the skills and character to serve Jesus and his people
send graduates throughout Australia and the world to serve Christ
</i>

Do you think this acceptable on a University ground?

Poll Options

248
appropriate
296
not appropriate
67
Should be banned

Education & Work

Comments

- - - ninetyNineCents on 19/08/2015 - 11:42
      
      @sintro:
      
      Im sorry your modifying the word slavery to mean things that are not in the dictionary. Thats the problem im trying to share.
    - sintro on 19/08/2015 - 11:51
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      Im sorry your modifying the word slavery to mean things that are not in the dictionary.
      
      No I am not.
      This is the definition you provided:
      
      Slavery refer to involuntary subjection to another or others.
      
      This is the SAME as if someone else is making the claim that they have the right tell someone what they may or may not put in their body, that's a claim of ownership on the body, physically. And what's a claim on ownership on a human body called?
      
      It is called SLAVERY!
      
      It matters not how minor or how extreme the condition is, IT IS STILL SLAVERY.
    - ninetyNineCents on 19/08/2015 - 11:54
      
      @sintro:
      
      Slavery refer to involuntary subjection to another or others.
      
      You get to pick what job you work at and who you work for. If you dont like it your free to leave.
      
      I fail to see when anybody forces you to pick any particular job.
      
      Hell Australia has about 10% bludgers collecting the dole. How the hell are they slaves ?
    - ninetyNineCents on 19/08/2015 - 11:59
      
      @sintro:
      
      It matters not how minor or how extreme the condition is, IT IS STILL SLAVERY
      
      Actually thats not true. Slavery means you are the property of a master ALL the time, and they can do what they wish including killing you. When your working for a few hours each day for your boss, they may tell you what to do but there is a time limit. YOu also have protection from the law, which means your boss cant rape or beat you up. Slaves in the ancient world didnt have protection from these evils, nor did they have the freedoms you have outside work hours.
      
      That is of course if you want to count your work time as slavery.
    - ninetyNineCents on 19/08/2015 - 12:02
      
      @sintro:
      
      This is the SAME as if someone else is making the claim that they have the right tell someone what they may or may not put in their body, that's a claim of ownership on the body, physically. And what's a claim on ownership on a human body called?
      
      So you think its wrong the gov says you cant take heroin, and that somehow makes your life as terrible as slaves who were worked to death or killed for fun ?
      
      Come on stop playing the victim.
      
      If you dont like Australia, go live in Afghanistan and have all the heroin you want.
      
      People in Australia take drugs all the time, i fail to see how your "freedoms" are denied here. Even when they get caught nothing happens.
    - sintro on 19/08/2015 - 23:26
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      You are missing the point bro, and you can't see your invisible chains because you don't understand what true human freedom or sovereignty is. You can see through the lies within organised religions, now take the next step see through the religious belief in Governement and Authority.
      
      If you dont like Australia, go live in Afghanistan and have all the heroin you want.
      
      This is not about Australia.
      This is about the religious belief in Government and Authority on THIS PLANET.
      
      The definition of freedom is the infinite value of the human being. The definition of evil is the destruction of freedom. Everything that is evil teaches people that they have limited value.
      
      Simple
      Truth is always simple. All people recognise truth because all people are intelligent beings. It is the nature of evil to create artificially complex ideas. It does this to hide or obfuscate the freedom it destroys. If you remove the complexities and fears from your life you will find a plain and beautiful truth. This truth is the nature of your worth.
      
      Value of man
      To understand freedom is to understand the value of a person. Everything that evil wants is to disguise and destroy your value. All authority is created by evil men to disguise your worth. To understand your own worth is to understand the nature of liberty.
      
      Evil
      The crucial key for understanding our world is to understand the nature of evil. Evil challenges the value of people by denying them the opportunity to make their own choices; by denying them the chance to grow strong in learning and understanding.
      
      Freedom
      While evil seeks to destroy or hide a person's worth, freedom shows humans their full potential and their full value. With freedom, people have loved, cured disease, removed hunger, eased labor and lived in peace. With freedom, happiness is possible. Freedom is the exact opposite of evil.
      
      You
      Nothing on earth is more valuable than you.
      
      Authority / Government
      Examples of authorities are governments, bullies, mafias, thieves and kings. People obey authority in their lives either out of fear of violence, or because culture conditions them to accept obedience as proper and good. Authorities always use both tools. The most successful authorities do not have to use violence as often because of the strength of their cultures. Both culture and violence enforce authority.
      
      All government, all violence, and all laws are methods of forcing you to yield money or motive without your permission. If these were things that truly provided benefit to you, then you would do them willingly. In a free market, you get only that which you pay for. In government, you can easily get anything you want at the expense of others. Those who have the most to take are the easiest to rob.
      
      Government is an agent of force. As soon as power is yielded to authority, as soon as you give it license to take life and liberty, it becomes an agent of evil. Evil men who seek authority over you will not fight government. All evil that wants is power over you. Evil naturally seeks its place in government.
      
      Governments, by definition, hold a monopoly on violence. Those who seek power over you will not fight your government. Why fight it, when what they wanted to begin with was authority over you? You already have the institution evil men seek. It is natural for evil to seek its place in government. History shows us that every nation ever devised can and will be used as a tool on behalf of evil men. Evil seeks power. This is an immutable truth. The more power you vest in a government, the more evil you will find there.
      
      Government is the only true monopoly. You cannot choose whether or not to buy their “services”. Opting out is called treason and tax evasion, and authority will come to your door with guns. They will imprison or kill you.
      
      Frequently governments will strengthen their culture grip over people by spending extorted money in targeted ways. Just as mafia dons and drug lords are known to spend on social projects
      for the benefit of the poor, governments use money to fabricate enemies and impersonate righteousness. They spend lavishly with other people's money on public works and welfare. In so doing they pretend to be the saviors of the people, while condemning the rich (socialism) or the Jews (Nazis) or freedom itself (terrorists). The pattern plays out in a thousand ways, and the artificial enemies are always different, but the result is always the same. Governments do not always spend money on themselves, but they always increase their power.
      
      Government debt is money spent by governments before they confiscate it. Such debt has little meaning, since the evil is found in the confiscation, and not the timing. However, given the culture of democracies, people are taught the nobility of nations and the loyalty of being a taxpayer. Governments know that they can spend whatever they want today, and obligate you to pay for it tomorrow.
      
      The nature of national cultures is such that even when the threshold of extortion is less than government spending, by the time the debt comes due, cultures convince people that it is their debt. In this fashion, they raise the threshold of extortion. People are less likely to revolt or quit working when they are taught that it is their nation, their debt and their moral obligation to pay.
    - ninetyNineCents on 19/08/2015 - 23:29
      
      @sintro:
      
      Government is the only true monopoly. You cannot choose whether or not to buy their “services”. Opting out is called treason and tax evasion, and authority will come to your door with guns. They will imprison or kill you
      
      Thats still not slavery, thats theft.
      
      Im not going to deny that govs do waste money, but a lot of our taxes still do many good things for the community like hospitals, schools etc. In fact more than half of all australians get more from the gov than they pay tax.
      
      How exactly is getting MORE than you PAY be theft ?
    - ninetyNineCents on 19/08/2015 - 23:30
      
      @sintro:
      
      All government, all violence, and all laws are methods of forcing you to yield money or motive without your permission.
      
      Thts simply untrue as half of all australians receive more benefits from the gov than pay taxes.
      
      For example the vast majority of pensioners today receive by DEFINITION more in benefits than they ever paid for.
      
      Same goes for all people on benefits.
    - ninetyNineCents on 19/08/2015 - 23:32
      
      @sintro:
      
      NOT one item in your reply actually demonstrates that your definition of slavery is correct.
      
      Tax is legalized theft, thats all if you want to be silly but its not slavery. The gov only takes at most half your earnings, if you were a gov slave they would take IT ALL. Slavery means TOTAL ownership by the master.
    - sintro on 19/08/2015 - 23:45
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      Slavery refer to involuntary subjection to another or others.
      
      This dictionary meaning provided by you mentions nothing of total ownership. This is something you imposed on to limit the usage of the word Slavery.
      
      NOT one item in your reply actually demonstrates that your definition of slavery is correct.
      
      The items I listed describes "involuntary subjection to another". Therefore it is a form of slavery, whether you like it or not.
    - ninetyNineCents on 19/08/2015 - 23:48
      
      @sintro:
      
      They spend lavishly with other people's money on public works and welfare.
      
      I wonder how many slaves in the old days got free schooling, free hospitals, unemployment benefits, pensions ?
      
      Most Australians GET MORE from the GOV than they EVER PAY IN TAX.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 00:00
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      Finish the sentence…
      
      They spend lavishly with other people's money on public works and welfare. In so doing they pretend to be the saviors of the people.
      
      You question religion and you ask why. But with this you just take it like an obidient SLAVE!
      
      Welfare states teach people that they are unable to effectively produce enough to support their own lives. They are given the enemies of greed and destitution as the reasons why authority is needed in their lives.
      
      Welfare teach that people do not own their own labors. They distract people with cultural ideals of duty and brotherhood. Their true nature is the nature of force. Nothing in welfare and socialism is done by choice. Everything is implemented under threat of violence. As with all culture, welfare and socialism are evil.
      
      Welfare teaches that people deserve to receive the basic necessities of life without needing to work for them. Flipped upside down, welfare teaches that those unwilling to labor for their own benefit can extract it from you. Welfare reveals forced labor.
      
      Democracies are always welfare states, because everyone is able to create laws legitimizing theft. The strongest democracies have the highest taxation and the most regulation. Government employees are able to influence laws to benefit their own positions and salaries. The more regulation created, the more opportunities for pirating in the name of propriety.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 00:15
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      I wonder how many slaves in the old days got free schooling, free hospitals, unemployment benefits, pensions ?
      
      How many times bro. The degree of Slavery does not matter. OK. Let's go through schooling.
      
      Governments control education for the purpose of culturing employees. The objective of state education is the stabilisation of the tax base.
      
      Schooling, education and knowledge are not the same thing. One is not a natural result of the other. People grow in knowledge when they learn truths. Teaching and schooling are meaningless when students do not seek wisdom. They are likewise meaningless when that which is being taught is not wisdom. In order to learn, people must thirst for knowledge. Force and compulsion cannot accomplish this.
      
      Law does not pretend to teach people their worth or abilities of achievement. Law desires only that you learn obedience. Not only does law provide a way for students to learn the merits of social and economic obedience to authority, it enforces a near perfect monopolization against all other teachers. Private schools and parents themselves are nearly shut out from teaching children the one lesson they need: an understanding of their own value and potential.
      
      When people understand that their minds are truly capable of anything, that they are able to learn and grow according to their dreams, they tend to make poor citizens. They question culture and oppressive authority. They reject taxation. They are stronger, more peaceful, more prosperous and more independent. All of this is wonderful for humanity, and destroys evil.
      
      Most Australians GET MORE from the GOV than they EVER PAY IN TAX.
      
      So the Master is paying good obidient Slaves. What's your point? So that they get dumber and dumber, more and more dependant?
      
      And you wonder why there are so many stupid people falling for fake religions, FAKE spirituality, FAKE this and that (I won't mention it all). Everything is fed to them like PETS, SPIRITUALLY DEAD PETS or SLAVE!
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 13:10
      
      @sintro:
      
      How many times bro. The degree of Slavery does not matter.
      
      Actually it does, thats the point you completely misunderstand. Theres no such thing as a partial slave, you either are a slave or your free thats what the word means. its like pregnancy or marriage and so on there are in betweens.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 13:12
      
      @sintro:
      
      Governments control education for the purpose of culturing employees. The objective of state education is the stabilisation of the tax base.
      
      Whats wrong with a system that forces people to try and get an education. We get many choices even during high school like which subjects we pick and if we want to goto uni you again get to pick what you will study.
      
      I fail to see how this is slavery. Slavery means you dont have ANY choice, your master decides all aspects of your life, how much you work ,what you will do, where you can go and so on. You have NO FREEDOM at all, you are a worker every single day of your life.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 13:13
      
      @sintro:
      
      Most Australians GET MORE from the GOV than they EVER PAY IN TAX.
      
      So the Master is paying good obidient Slaves. What's your point? So that they get dumber and dumber, more and more dependant?
      
      Thats not slavery. Slavery BY DEFINITION dont get paid, everything belongs to their master. If you get paid for working you are NOT a slave.
      
      Yet again you are completely wrong in defining and using the word.
      
      How exactly is a dole bludger who never works a slave ? Plenty of them goto the beach to surf or get drunk, that isnt slavery at all as they dont produce anything for the master.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 13:15
      
      @sintro:
      
      And you wonder why there are so many stupid people falling for fake religions, FAKE spirituality, FAKE this and that (I won't mention it all). Everything is fed to them like PETS, SPIRITUALLY DEAD PETS or SLAVE!
      
      Being stupid has nothing to do with slavery. Stupid people arent slaves and slaves arent stupid. With this brand of logic i could say if you have eatten apples or oranges you are a slave and thats total nonsense, like your connection here.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 13:18
      
      @sintro:
      
      Law does not pretend to teach people their worth or abilities of achievement. Law desires only that you learn obedience.
      
      The law has nothing to do with teaching, its about a set of rules to govern how we live, eg we must stop at red lights when driving etc.
      
      Teaching is a completely independent and separate matter.
      
      This line of reasoning is completely stupid.
      
      Next your going to expect gravity to teach people maths or computer programming. Thats not what laws are. Again your corrupting the meaning of words and making completely idiotic conclusions.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 13:20
      
      @sintro:
      
      Schooling, education and knowledge are not the same thing
      
      Never said they were. I was just pointing out the gov gives a lot more from the beginning and we are in debt. In fact most australians never repay their debt that the gov has given via welfare or investment in things like schools, roads and so on.
      
      If we had no gov, we wouldnt have civilization. Go back and live in a cave like the lawless muslim tribesman/aresholes in Afghanistan. THey have freedom and look what it costs them. They have no dignity, they treat each other like criminals, thats why their cover their women in burkhas and force them to stay home because they know their neighbours and friends cant be trusted.
      
      We gain so much from gov and lose a little, its worth the price. Maybe next time you need medicine because your sick, i hope you dont goto the doctor or hospitals. Same goes for water, dont open any tap, because without gov you wouldnt have even water via taps.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 14:15
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      Thats not slavery. Slavery BY DEFINITION dont get paid, everything belongs to their master. If you get paid for working you are NOT a slave.
      
      That is YOUR OWN definition. It has nothing to do with money.
      
      The condition of SLAVERY exists if there is ANY form of "involuntary subjection to another or others".
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 15:18
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      Actually it does, thats the point you completely misunderstand. Theres no such thing as a partial slave, you either are a slave or your free thats what the word means. its like pregnancy or marriage and so on there are in betweens.
      
      Agree. There the no partial slavery.
      Because when someone or authority can make a claim over what you can or cannot put into your body. That is already in the definition of "involuntary subjection to another or others."
      Slavery is not a concept of totality. Slavery exists wherever the freedom of man is destroyed. Theft and bullying are slavery.
      
      The contention here is that you consider yourself NOT a SLAVE because you have some freedom, but as a whole you lack freedom in some areas.
      Like I mentioned before, the lives of slaves were mostly controlled for the benefit of the master, but they had some very limited freedoms. Some were able to create distinct traditions and maintain families. They did their best to build joy into their lives despite the tyranny wrought upon them.
      
      Because they were in control of portions of their lives, were they free? NO
      How much freedom does a person deserve? To the full potential? or just some?
      How much freedom can be destroyed before we recognize that it is evil? ALL? A little is acceptable?
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 16:43
      
      @sintro:
      
      Slavery is not a concept of totality.
      
      Your completely wrong, a slave is TOTAL property of the master. A slave is the property to do as the master wants every single day and moment of their lives. Thats what the word means.
      
      If i told a slave 2000 years ago that dole bludgers surfing in Byron Bay who never worked a day in their life and got free food and money for housing were slaves, they would laugh and think your definition is a joke.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 16:45
      
      @sintro:
      
      How much freedom does a person deserve? To the full potential? or just some?
      
      We have it pretty good in Australia. Your just a bloody whinger complaining about bullshit. We have never had it so good. We are the luckiest people in all human history, living the best longest, healthiest lives ever.
      
      You conveniently forget taht 50% of kids died before they were 5 not that long ago. Ill happy stop at red lights and all that if it means kids dont die, and i have clean water as we do.
      
      How much freedom can be destroyed before we recognize that it is evil? ALL? A little is acceptable?
      
      This is a totally different concept and not slavery.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 16:49
      
      @sintro:
      
      Thats not slavery. Slavery BY DEFINITION dont get paid, everything belongs to their master. If you get paid for working you are NOT a slave.
      
      That is YOUR OWN definition. It has nothing to do with money.
      
      Its not my definition its what it means. Go check a dictionary or read a history book.
      
      Did slaves in Rome who were worked to death in mines, building projects and all that get paid ?
      
      Did black slaves in America get paid ?
      
      Do you think Hitler paid the jews and gypsies who were slaves in the camps ? Of course not, because slaves dont have rights.
      
      A master can do anything to a slave, thts why they dont pay them. Laws in ancient cultures supported this. In rome if any slave killed a master, ALL the slaves in that household were killed, it doesnt matter if youwere an innocent slave, they all got punished.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 18:14
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      If i told a slave 2000 years ago that dole bludgers surfing in Byron Bay who never worked a day in their life and got free food and money for housing were slaves, they would laugh and think your definition is a joke.
      
      They will only laugh because you are a SLAVE and you don't even know it.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 18:42
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      If we had no gov, we wouldnt have civilization.
      
      That's your belief system right there, you have faith in gov.
      
      We gain so much from gov and lose a little, its worth the price.
      
      You will lose more and more privacy, freedom, rights as well as the fruits of your labour money etc. The price always increases, it's actually not worth it.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 19:07
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      The law has nothing to do with teaching
      
      You didn't read it properly.
      
      Law does not pretend to teach people their worth or abilities of achievement. Law desires only that you learn obedience.
      
      There are Man's Law and Natural Law. If you are talking about gravity then that's a natural law. You learn obidience from gravity by learning not to walk off a cliff as it may result in injury or death.
      
      Your emotions are clouding your understanding of what I'm trying to convey to you. The key point is that you understand your own value and potential, and do not let anything limit your potential/freedom. I know your not being held back by organised religion so that's a good start but don't even let authority and government limit your potential and freedom in any way.
      
      Because the definition of freedom is the infinite value of the human being. The definition of evil is the destruction of freedom. Everything that is evil teaches people that they have limited value.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 19:16
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      A master can do anything to a slave, thts why they dont pay them.
      
      Do they feed them food and water? That's a form of payment.
      
      If I can get someone to slave away for me for a bag of peanuts or feed them to keep them alive. That my payment to the slave.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 20:28
      
      @sintro:
      
      Freedom ? We have never been freer. Just 150 years ago, most of us were slaves destined to live our lives on our masters farm.
      
      Privacy: We have far more privacy than any time in the past. You might want to check how much privacy you get in a hut the size of your toilet with 20 people.
      
      fruits of your labour : Again refer to slavery
      
      Money: We have ALL never been so rich. The cars and homes of today are better than kings could ever dream of 50 years ago etc.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 20:31
      
      @sintro:
      
      Do they feed them food and water? That's a form of payment.
      
      No thats nature. If you dont feed your horse grass he will die. Many slaves were barely fed and many died. Thats how HItler worked his slaves and he wasnt the only, its a common theme. Lack of food is one of the reasons for the Russian and French revolutions because their xian masters took far too much and gave less than enough food.
      
      Slaves dont get monetary payment, you know very well without food a slave is dead and the master has nothing but bones. Most masters realised this and gave the bare minimum.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 20:32
      
      @sintro:
      
      know your not being held back by organised religion so that's a good start but don't even let authority and government limit your potential and freedom in any way.
      
      Gov doesnt control my life. You must be in jail or seomthing but i fail to see how most people in Australia are slaves of gov. There is no such thing as total freedom. We have to obey nature and fundamental human laws otherwise its anarchy and war. A country without laws ends up like Afghanistan where any two bit areshole can execute people becaue he wants too.
      
      Your complaining far too much, 99.9% of all the humans in all human history would gladly exchange their home world for your life in Australia. Basically 95% of all people on earth today would swap their home with Australia.
    - ninetyNineCents on 20/08/2015 - 20:37
      
      @sintro:
      
      If we had no gov, we wouldnt have civilization.
      
      That's your belief system right there, you have faith in gov.
      
      No its a fact. Without rules and gov we dont have even the basics like clean water which means most of us are dead before we reach adulthood and get a chance to change the world and invent civilization.
      
      How exactly are you going to trade with other people with no money, or biuy food so you can have time to invent ? Your imaginery world simply doesnt work.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 21:16
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      No thats nature. If you dont feed your horse grass he will die.
      
      Welcome to the master's farm, we're all PETS.
      That's the alternative since you refuse to accept the word Slavery as a description of your current condition.
    - sintro on 20/08/2015 - 23:35
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      Gov doesnt control my life.
      
      That's your illusion of freedom right there.
      
      Gov is a fear based control system. Fear is the contractive force for Consciousness. Fear is the force which influences us to become closed to Truth and the force which ultimately shuts down our awareness. Hence through your FEAR of losing things like clean water or health care or chaos you are closed to the idea that there are solutions and possiblities without authority and government.
      
      The first step is to get rid of the FEAR of what might happen if there is no authority or government and accept the current "Slavery" (replace it if you are uncomfortable with it) condition, recognise that there IS a problem. It requires destruction of belief systems and barriers in your head. It is then you can improve on your awareness and pick apart the system and utimately take ACTION towards change.
      
      Fear-based DENIAL of the problem must first be dealt with and conquered.
      
      You must be in jail or seomthing but i fail to see how most people in Australia are slaves of gov.
      
      Again this is not about Australia. This is about the condition Governement and Authority imposes on people on this planet.
      
      And yes, we're both in prison and I'm trying to describe every corner of the cage to you and hand you a key to unlock your mind.
      
      There is no such thing as total freedom.
      
      Yes there is but you've never experienced it and don’t know about it. Freedom is governed by the Law of Freedom inherent in nature. Freedom and Morality are directly proportional. It’s a an equation that works 100% of the time flawlessly.
      
      As Morality increases, Freedom increases.
      
      As Morality declines, Freedom declines.
      
      Another way of stating this Law would be to say that the presence of Truth and Morality in the lives of the people of any given society is inversely proportional to the presence of Tyranny and Slavery in that society.
      
      We have to obey nature and fundamental human laws otherwise its anarchy and war.
      
      Yes, we need to live in harmony with Natural Law.
      
      The meaning of Anarchy is totally different to how it is portrayed on TV or conditioned in our minds.
      
      From the Greek prefix an- "without;the absence of" and the Greek noun archon "master; ruler". It literally means "without rulers; without masters."
      
      The meaning of Anarchy is the state of existence where there are no Masters and no Slaves. Therefore, Anarchy means the absence of Slavery or in other words, Freedom. No Rulers. No Master.
      
      We've been in a continuous state of war, it has never ended.
      
      Before an authority can be established, war must take place. War is the implementation of violence. It is the tool that evil uses to establish authority. All of history's wars have occurred because of a desire to implement a new authority over people. On the smallest scale, this occurs via a process of threat and acquiescence. Such is the behavior of bullies, thugs, and mafias. On the largest scale, it occurs in violent multi-year battles. Such is the behavior of nations and empires.
    - ninetyNineCents on 21/08/2015 - 00:33
      
      @sintro:
      
      Gov doesnt control my life.
      
      That's your illusion of freedom right there.
      
      Gov is a fear based control system.
      
      Well i dont know anyone who fears the gov… im not sure where you live.
      
      Fear-based DENIAL of the problem must first be dealt with and conquered.
      
      Im sorry i simply dont understand why are you are fearful of the Australian gov. The Australian gov never goes around shooting or beating people up. There are no secret gulags or anything. WHere exactly is ALL this violence you speak of ?
    - ninetyNineCents on 21/08/2015 - 00:34
      
      @sintro:
      
      The meaning of Anarchy is the state of existence where there are no Masters and no Slaves. Therefore, Anarchy means the absence of Slavery or in other words, Freedom. No Rulers. No Master.
      
      I also know that Anarchy leads to situations like what we see in tribal areas of Afghanistan, where any areshole can go around shooting people in the head and raping women.
      
      Tahts why they have burqas and dont let women out in islamic countries, because their history of anarchy results in basically a warzone mentally and culture.
    - ninetyNineCents on 21/08/2015 - 00:36
      
      @sintro:
      
      Yes there is but you've never experienced it and don’t know about it. Freedom is governed by the Law of Freedom inherent in nature. Freedom and Morality are directly proportional. It’s a an equation that works 100% of the time flawlessly.
      
      As Morality increases, Freedom increases.
      As Morality declines, Freedom declines.
      
      ::
      We have never been freer or more moral in all human history. Go check your history books for how often kings and queens butchered their people or how often there were wars. We have healthcare and welfare, these things simpy didnt exist, sure they cost money but they do help a lot of people and reduce violence because poor people dnt need to steal and kill to survive.
    - ninetyNineCents on 21/08/2015 - 00:39
      
      @sintro:
      
      The first step is to get rid of the FEAR of what might happen if there is no authority or government a
      
      Well without gov there goes the roads. That also means no quality on medicines and food, because theres nothing to force companies to be honest. I dont think you have thought thru just how much is lost without a gov. We basically go back to individuals and families and that limits what can be achieved because of scale.
      
      You end up with tribal afghanistan, which doesnt work. THere are many more examples in Africa that show what happens when there is no gov which is the case in many African countries. When i say no gov i literally mean the gov basically only exists in the capital and in the countryside its a free for all.
    - sintro on 21/08/2015 - 22:24
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      Well i dont know anyone who fears the gov… im not sure where you live.
      
      You still can't see it. If you do not FEAR any consequences imposed then try not paying tax, drive without a licence, own a gun with a license etc. You only do it because it is done through coercion.
      
      Im sorry i simply dont understand why are you are fearful of the Australian gov.
      
      I'm talking about all gov on this planet. It's not about you or me. I know you are content where you are, that's why you are reluctant to learn anything new, just like people with religious minsets.
      
      I thought it would be easier for you to do this because you do not subscribe to religious mindsets, guess I was wrong but I'm asking you to step back and understand what true freedom is and how ALL authority limits freedom.
    - sintro on 21/08/2015 - 22:44
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      I also know that Anarchy leads to situations like what we see in tribal areas of Afghanistan, where any areshole can go around shooting people in the head and raping women.
      
      That is correct. Knowledge is required in order to steer clear away from those kind of situations.
      
      Conscience is what needs to be developed further in us all. From the Latin prefix con: "together" and the Latin verb sciere "to know; to understand" or "To Know Together"
      
      Common sense knowing, common sense knowledge.
      
      The requirement is that the definitive Knowledge of objective difference between Right and Wrong according to Natural Law is taught and understood by all Human Beings. It's not easy task but it starts with you, me and the next generation.
    - sintro on 21/08/2015 - 23:22
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      We have never been freer or more moral in all human history. Go check your history books for how often kings and queens butchered their people
      
      Earth, in its current form, is
      A PRISION FOR THIEVES.
      
      Human beings are confined here to learn the single Spiritual Law:
      
      DON'T STEAL
      
      We will continue to be imprisoned until we STOP commiting and condoning THEFT.
      
      These are all WRONG DOINGS and they are all forms of THEFT.
      Murder / Assault: Stealing/Taking someone's LIFE, Taking someone's RIGHT to remain unharme in the person.
      Rape: Taking someone's FREE WILL or RIGHT to whom they want sexual assocations with
      Theft: Itself, is taking phyiscal posessions that aren't yours to take from somebody else.
      Trespass: Taking someone's security in their own lair, which you have no right to take.
      Coercion: Taking someone's FREE WILL which isn't yours to take. Eg. You must do this (pay 50% tax) because I said so and if you don't do this I will come and do some form of harm to you.
      
      A living being or their property must have been harmed in order for a VIOLATION of Natural Law or a Wrong Doing, to have taken place. Any action which does not cause such harm is a Right.
      
      How ridiculous is it that this is not 100% pure common sense on this Earth by now, it is utterly preposterous that I need to tell you this.
      
      Unless we deely understand this and start to propagate this knowledge to other people (me to you right now), things are going to get worst.
    - sintro on 22/08/2015 - 00:02
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      Well without gov there goes the roads. That also means no quality on medicines and food, because theres nothing to force companies to be honest.
      
      Last time I saw road work, I saw PEOPLE. People with machinery and material build roads not gov.
      
      Companies are not honest now, it's all about the money. In fact MONEY is the biggest RELIGION of them all. Companies can have political influence and those in power can approve dodgy mining lease that delivered a multimillion-dollar profit to a union mate.
      
      Do you work in a government job?
      
      You end up with tribal afghanistan, which doesnt work.
      
      It doesn't work because you don't understand the dynamics of Natural Law. It's just a law in nature like gravity that governs the negative outcomes you described in Afghanistan or African countries. It is not because they have no government, it is because they have no deep understanding of what are RIGHT and WRONG actions and it's natural consequence.
      
      THIS quote describes you BEST right now…
      "A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of SLAVES who DO NOT have to be coerced because they LOVE THEIR SERVITUTE" - Julian Huxley
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 22/08/2015 - 06:00
      
      +1
      
      @ninetyNineCents: Regarding Jesus’ birth—Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”
      Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
      Micah 5:2: “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”
      
      Likely the clearest prophecy about Jesus is the entire 53rd chapter of Isaiah. Isaiah 53:3-7 is especially unmistakable: “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.”
      The “seventy sevens” prophecy in Daniel chapter 9 predicted the precise date that Jesus, the Messiah, would be “cut off.”
      Isaiah 50:6 accurately describes the beating that Jesus endured.
      Zechariah 12:10 predicts the “piercing” of the Messiah, which occurred after Jesus died on the cross.
      Many more examples could be provided, but these will suffice. The Old Testament most definitely prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 20:42
      
      @sintro:
      
      You are missing the point bro, and you can't see your invisible chains because you don't understand what true human freedom or sovereignty is. You can see through the lies within organised religions, now take the next step see through the religious belief in Governement and Authority.
      
      You have hit the nail on the head, thats exactly what the bible and Koran are all about. Unfortunately only time and education will teach everyone the scam that religion is.
      
      Examples of authorities are governments, bullies, mafias, thieves and kings. People obey authority in their lives either out of fear of violence, or because culture conditions them to accept obedience as proper and good. Authorities always use both tools.
      
      Most if not all of us dont have any of these problems in Australia. I think i brought that up in my replies to others, that the reason Australia is the greatest place to live in is because we dont have these same monsters here. The Australian gov is pretty benevolent, thats all i was trying to say.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 20:50
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      Regarding Jesus’ birth—Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”
      
      Firstly the Hebrew word translated as virgin is actually young woman. Dont believe me, go check for yourself, or go ask your local Rabbi they will be happy to talk to you about it. see links below. You should know what Strong is if you know your history.
      
      ots of people claim to be born of virgins, eg Alexander the Great's mum said the same go look it up on Wiki, she claimed she was raped by Zeus. Do you just believe Olympia ?
      
      What proof have you got Mary was a virgin at birth ? Do you go about believing any women today that says she has a virgin birth wirthout medical examination ?
      
      Jesus is only called Emmanuel once in the ENTIRE bible, where matthew says in passing Jesus was called Immaneul, except he isnt in Mark, John, Luke or anywher eelse in the bible.
      THere have been thousands of people called Emmanuel, the actor in Webster, the little black kid was also called Emmanuel. I hope you see how lame this is.
      
      http://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/7-14.htm
      
      5959 [e] hā-‘al-māh, הָעַלְמָ֗ה a virgin Noun
      
      http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5959.htm
      
      Strong's Concordance
      almah: a young woman, a virgin
      Original Word: עַלְמָה
      Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
      Transliteration: almah
      Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
      Short Definition: maidens
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympias
      
      During Alexander's campaigns, she regularly corresponded with him and may have confirmed her son's claim in Egypt that his father was not Philip but Zeus.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 20:55
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      Micah 5:2: “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”
      
      Several failures here.
      
      1/ Bethlehem Ephrathah is not a place but a clan which is quite a different thing. Jesus was not of this clan.
      2/ He also NEVER ruled Israel.
      3/ If you look in Micah 5":6 it says this same person will fight the Assyrians
      4/ You need to check what the word Messiah means. EVery Hebrew king and priest was a messiah. THere are literally dozens of Messiahs in the bible. Look up Cyrus the Great, he was called a Messiah because he liberated the jews out of Babylon.
      
      Goto wiki and read Cyrus and it points you to the bible to show you the text.
      
      Micah 5 has so many mistakies that its not Jesus thats for sure. Pretty crap prophecy , so many mistakes.
      
      Jesus was NEVER king and NEVER defeated the Assyrians.
      
      http://biblehub.com/micah/5.htm
      
      6They will shepherd the land of Assyria with the sword, The land of Nimrod at its entrances; And He will deliver us from the Assyrian When he attacks our land And when he tramples our territory.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 20:58
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      Zechariah 12:10 predicts the “piercing” of the Messiah, which occurred after Jesus died on the cross.
      Many more examples could be provided, but these will suffice. The Old Testament most definitely prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah.
      
      Several problems:
      
      it never identifies Jesus by name or title or position. LIke before you fail to KNOW the basics of Jewish culture.
      
      Go ask a Rabbi who were messiahs in the OT and you will see this is history NOT prophecy
      
      It says in V12 the entire land will mourn this person. That never happend for Jesus but may have happened for another king (sorry i dont know which king its referring too - but thats not hard to find out). Use that kings name and it all makes sense, no mistakes etc.
      
      I could go on but i wont…this is a real failure and a joke like all others.
      
      http://biblehub.com/zechariah/12.htm
      
      12"The land will mourn, every family by itself; the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself and their wives by themselves;
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah
      
      In the Hebrew Bible, a messiah (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, Modern mashiaẖ, Tiberian māšîăḥ) is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil.[2] However, messiahs were not exclusively Jewish, as the Hebrew Bible refers to Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, as a messiah[3] for his decree to rebuild the Jerusalem Temple.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 21:07
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      The “seventy sevens” prophecy in Daniel chapter 9 predicted the precise date that Jesus, the Messiah, would be “cut off.”
      
      Except Daniel is a fraud and was not writtein ~500. He makes lots of mistakes. That book was written in 150, look it up. Thats why all his prophecies stop after that time. Its not prophecy its history.
      
      He also gets a lot of history wrong, eg he names the wrong Persian king and gets several Babyloan kings wrong. Scholars have also noticed he spells Nebuchadnezzar using the Greek form and not the same spelling and pronounciation other bible writers use.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 21:12
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      Likely the clearest prophecy about Jesus is the entire 53rd chapter of Isaiah. Isaiah 53:3-7 is especially unmistakable: “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him no
      
      Lots of people have suffered. Jesus was not the first and last. Isa 53 doesnt even name Jesus.
      
      As always lets read the actual text and see where its NOT jesus
      
      Never names Jesus .
      
      v7 says HE willl not talk, but he did talk to Herod etc during his trial
      
      v10 talks about HIS offspring. Jeus never had children…
      
      Again another COMPLETE and utter failure.
      
      http://biblehub.com/isaiah/53.htm
      
      7He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.
      
      10But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring,
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 22/08/2015 - 21:14
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      In Isaiah 7:14, the prophet Isaiah addresses the "house of David," meaning the family and descendants of King David, and speaks of a virgin being pregnant with a child, and giving birth to the child. Isaiah says this in the context of it being a sign from God. He also says that the child would be referred to as "Immanuel," which means, "God with us."
      
      The New Testament books of Matthew and Luke record details involving the birth of Jesus, who was born about 700 years after the time of Isaiah, saying that he was born of the virgin Mary and is the Son of God. Because he is the Son of God, Jesus literally can be referred to as "God with us."
      
      Non-Christian scholars have challenged this interpretation. They say that the Hebrew word "almah," which is the word that Christian Bibles often translate as "virgin," actually means "young maiden" or "young woman." It should be noted that the Old Testament uses the word to refer to young, unmarried women, and that unmarried women were culturally and religiously expected to be virgins. One example can be found in Genesis 24:43, where it speaks of a person being sought as a bride for Isaac. ;-)
      
      Oh yeah give me a couple minutes to hop in my time machine with a local gynaecologist and I'll get right back to you about your virgin question :-P
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 22/08/2015 - 21:20
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      In Micah 5:2, there is a prophecy that reveals that Bethlehem would be the birthplace of the Messiah.
      
      As pointed out in the book, 100 Prophecies, by George Konig and Ray Konig: "The prophecy is effective in a simple way: It eliminates all other cities and towns throughout the world as a place in which the Messiah could be born. It narrows the possibilities to one tiny village just south of Jerusalem."
      
      And throughout the span of the past 27 centuries, from the days of the prophet Micah up through the present time, Bethlehem is credited as being the birthplace for only one person who is widely known throughout the world. And that person is Jesus Christ.
      
      The New Testament books of Matthew and Luke name the town of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Jesus. Matthew 2:1-6 describes the birth of Jesus as the fulfillment of Micah's prophecy.
      
      In recent years, however, some non-believers have attempted to discredit Matthew's interpretation of Micah 5:2 by claiming that the prophecy refers to a person named Bethlehem, not a town name Bethlehem. This claim has been widely circulated on the Internet by a college professor who describes himself as a former Christian minister.
      
      The first problem with this claim appears in Micah 5:1. In that verse, the prophet establishes that he is speaking of Bethlehem the town, not Bethlehem the person, by setting up a context in which he contrasts the great city of Jerusalem with the humble town of Bethlehem.
      
      A second problem with the claim is that there is also evidence outside of the Bible that shows that Micah 5:2 was regarded as a Messianic prophecy involving the town of Bethlehem. Here is an excerpt from the Jerusalem Talmud, which is a collection of Judaism-related writings completed about 1600 years ago:
      
      "The King Messiah… from where does he come forth? From the royal city of Bethlehem in Judah." - Jerusalem Talmud, Berakoth 5a.
      
      Micah 5:1-2:
      
      1 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod.
      
      2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
      ;-)
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 21:21
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      Go re-read my reply about Isa 7:14. If you read it correctly it says someone will be born of a woman and mentions the house of David. Thats literally thousands of men.
      
      The New Testament books of Matthew and Luke record details involving the birth of Jesus, who was born about 700 years after the time of Isaiah, saying that he was born of the virgin Mary and is the Son of God.
      
      Except Isa 714 doesnt say virgin… go READ my links it SHOWS WITHOUT DOUBT the hebrew DOESNT SAY VIRGIN.
      
      stop LYING and read the bible itself. Shame on you!
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 21:23
      
      -1
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      "The King Messiah… from where does he come forth? From the royal city of Bethlehem in Judah." - Jerusalem Talmud, Berakoth 5a.
      
      Micah 5:1-2:
      
      :: LIke said before JESUS WAS NEVER KING OF ISRAEL and NEVER INVOLVED IN A WAR.
      
      YOu cant avoid THOSE TWO mistakes…Everything from Micah is A MISTAKE…
      Please try and be honest, you aer completely LYING and twisting the bible to say things it doesnt say.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 21:24
      
      -1
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      In Micah 5:2, there is a prophecy that reveals that Bethlehem would be the birthplace of the Messiah.
      
      Except it doesnt, say Bethlehem the town…
      
      Stop lying and blelieving bullshit from George Konig. I dont need some liar to tell me what it says there when i can read it myself.
      
      Matthew 2:1-6 describes the birth of Jesus as the fulfillment of Micah's prophecy.
      
      Matthew can say whatever he likes, Micah 5 doesnt say that at all.
      
      We were discussing prophecy, forget the NT that was written AFTER jesus… you have to find stuff in the OT.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 21:27
      
      -1
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      One example can be found in Genesis 24:43, where it speaks of a person being sought as a bride for Isaac. ;-)
      
      WRONG. iTHe word there like in Isa is the same, it means YOUNG WOMAN, she MAYBE a virgin but doesnt have too. If Isa wanted to say VIRGIN he would have used VIRGIN but he used YOUNG WOMAN.
      
      Shame on you for lying again about this.
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 21:28
      
      -1
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      In recent years, however, some non-believers have attempted to discredit Matthew's interpretation of Micah 5:2 by claiming that the prophecy refers to a person named Bethlehem, not a town name Bethlehem. This claim has been widely circulated on the Internet by a college professor who describes himself as a former Christian minister.
      
      Thats the point it says CLAN not TOWN.
      
      We all know how to read and we can all read Micah 5:2 ourselves and see it says the word CLAN and NOT TOWN. THe extra proof is it says Bethlehem Ephrathah and not just BETHLEHEM.
      
      Two proofs, YOU ARE LYING.
      
      YOUR LYING AGAIN. If it was a prophecy it should be correct, and say
      
      "JESUS will be born in Bethlehem the town".. it wouldnt require all the bullshit your attempting. Pretty sad you can find a verse that is PERFECT…and requires all this twisting.
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 22/08/2015 - 22:03
      
      +1
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      I'd be very careful about who you call a liar mate ;-)
      
      I could go back and forth like many other posters have with you but I have neither the time nor the energy to do so. Plus I do believe that you have been absolutely owned by at least two other posters here ;-)
      
      I also believe in what Twain said 'Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.'
      
      You'll know the truth after you breathe your final breath… ;-)
      
      Stay safe and have a great night :-)
    - ninetyNineCents on 22/08/2015 - 22:26
      
      -1
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      I'd be very careful about who you call a liar mate ;-)
      
      I call you a liar, because you claim text says one thing when it clearly says another.
      
      I didnt change any words, i simply quoted EXACTLY what the BIBLE says. You dishonestly IGNORE major flaws in your prophecies. Not one of them is a prophecy they ALL clearly are about other people and times and matters.
      
      Isnt that what honesty is about ? Try the stuff your doing with a solicitor or bank or anyone in the real world and you will be in serious trouble and nobody would want to deal or trust you.
      
      Thats why the person in Micah 5 has battles and is a king, because its about some king way before Jesus. The text is a perfect match for him, because it is about him. Nothing more or less. If you read the text before and after that imfamous verse, that too isnt about Jesus. Your just picking random text here and there because ONe lousy word may be applied to Jesus. If your going to do that, you can make the bible say anything. Even the Muslims find Mohammad in the OT with this sort of dishonesty.
      
      SO why havent you replied to my other responses to your so called prophecies. You havent because you have been caught out and EVERYONE can see your plain out lying and making shit up. Most of your replies since have been completely off topic, jokes, insults, claims of authority because some guy says this or that … but you dont actually mention the bible itself and when you do, you completely skip the bits you dont like.
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 22/08/2015 - 22:56
      
      @ninetyNineCents: You don't read too well do you?? https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/206604?page=5#comment-2994…
    - sintro on 22/08/2015 - 23:39
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”
      Isaiah 9:6:
      
      You are not suppose to take it literally!
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RIIHmNKFTA
      
      The Sun of God is “born of a virgin,” which refers to both the new or "virgin” moon and the constellation of Virgo.
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 22/08/2015 - 23:50
      
      @sintro: Sorry but no- the bible IS a literal book. God is not an author of confusion. Anyway thanks for the links, hope you have a great night :-)
    - sintro on 23/08/2015 - 00:32
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      God is not an author of confusion.
      No but Humans are confused
      
      It is NOT a literal book, they are symbolisms and allegories. It actually tells you… watch the link.
      
      PARABLES = DARK SAYINGS
      
      Psalms 78:21 I will open my mouth in a parable. I will utter dark sayings of old, which we have heard and known and our fathers have told us.
      
      We have two key words here, parable and dark.
      
      Both reference symbolic text.
      
      In other words the Bible is telling us that you must begin to understand not with the brain, but with the heart, or the spirit.
      
      Dark sayings of old are simply words that have Hidden Meanings.
      
      And consider this.
      
      The text was written thousands of years ago and they are talking about dark sayings "of old".
      
      Proverbs 1:6 To understand a proverb and the interpretation, the words of the wise and their dark sayings.
      
      This scripture leads off by defining the word "wisdom".
      
      Then as it shows above, wisdom is understanding symbolic writings.
      
      Again a reference to dark sayings, which means text containing Hidden Meanings.
      
      Matthew 13:34-35 All these things spoke Jesus to the multitude in parables and without a parable he didn't speak to them.
      
      This scripture below clearly states that the old testament is allegory. It is SYMOBLIC. IT IS MYTH.
      
      Galatians 4:24
      Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
      
      And the scripture below. Them that are without that take the parabels literally, do not understand, only them that are within, who seeks within and practice the single eye as instructed will know the mystery of the kingdom of God.
      
      Mark 4:11
      And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
      
      Matthew 6:22
      The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
      
      And the below clearly tells you that God is not in a church or a religion. It is within you. Everything in the Bible is a mythological study of the human mind and body.
      
      Luke 17:21
      Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
      
      Listen to Bill Donahue, you will clearly understand both literal and symbolic meanings. All the best.
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 23/08/2015 - 07:37
      
      @sintro: Sorry mate but soooo wrong. Anyway take it as you will. Wish you the best in life :-)
    - sintro on 23/08/2015 - 09:57
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      I'm sharing the truth with you.
      
      Share with me what those scriptures mean then…
    - SlickMick on 23/08/2015 - 10:42
      
      +1
      
      @sintro:
      You guys realise there is no end to this, right?
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 23/08/2015 - 11:13
      
      @SlickMick: Yep, only took me a couple of replies to realise this. I'll leave Ozbargain for bargains ;-)
    - sintro on 23/08/2015 - 11:42
      
      -1
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      You guys realise there is no end to this, right?
      
      There is certainly no end to the amount of ignorance in human beings but it's about time we try to reduce it.
      
      I'll leave Ozbargain for bargains ;-)
      
      I just gave you a total bargain, Truth as a Freebie.
      
      All I ask is you keep it in mind and consider it.
      
      Enjoy your SUN-day, the day Christians go to church to worship the SUN of GOD (Jesus).
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 23/08/2015 - 11:59
      
      @sintro: Like SlickMick mentioned, there is no end to this. Remember, believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it ;-)
      
      Have a great one mate- all the best with your 'street-wise' spirituality :-D
    - sintro on 23/08/2015 - 16:49
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      Remember, believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it ;-)
      
      Truth discovery requires working together. It's normal to doubt but you need to follow through and investigate further when the opportunity arises.
      
      If I told someone the truth above gravity and that stepping off a 100 foot cliff with jagged rocks at the bottom would cause serious injuries or death. If they doubt me without futher investigation and IGNORED TRUTH and steps off, what then?
      
      Have a great one mate- all the best with your 'street-wise' spirituality :-D
      
      I'll summerise it for you brother.
      
      Street-wise Spirituality - What does it mean to be truely AWAKE?
      
      01. Being "Awake" means knowing about the Occult, and understanding that there are both Light and Dark aspects to it.
      
      02. Being "Awake" means knowing that Truth is singular, objective, and exists independently of our perceptions of it.
      
      03. Being "Awake" means knowing the True Self and understanding its connection to All.
      
      04. Being "Awake" means knowing that neither the Physical nor Spiritual realities take precedence over each other.
      
      **05.*** Being "Awake" means being out of Ego-Identification and Ego-Attachment.
      
      06. Being "Awake" means exercising discernment and judgement.
      
      07. Being "Awake" means being mentally free of all False Religions.
      
      08. Being "Awake" means knowing there is no such thing as Knowledge which is “negative.”
      
      09. Being "Awake" means knowing the causal factors that have led to the current Human Condition.
      
      10. Being "Awake" means understanding and living in harmony with Natural Law.
      
      11. Being "Awake" means knowing and living both Pillars of Enlightenment.
      
      12. Being "Awake" means knowing that “Authority” is an illegitimate illusion, and that all Government is Slavery.
      
      13. Being "Awake" means recognizing the critical importance of Free Will and personal responsibility.
      
      14. Being "Awake" means knowing that the so-called “negative” emotions serve a critically important purpose.
      
      15. Being "Awake" means knowing that True Enlightenment is not about pursuing bliss in a world that is currently filled with suffering.
      
      16. Being "Awake" means knowing what True Forgiveness really means.
      
      17. Being "Awake" means knowing the difference between what cannot be changed and what should be changed.
      
      18. Being "Awake" means caring enough to take real-world action to create real-world change.
      
      19. Being "Awake" means knowing that True Enlightenment is not only about improving yourself, but also about influencing others to improve themselves.
      
      20. Being "Awake" means knowing that True Enlightenment does not equate to perfection.
      
      In fact, I actually learn more as I share this information with you and others.
    - ninetyNineCents on 23/08/2015 - 19:23
      
      -1
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      Sorry but no- the bible IS a literal book.
      
      Bible quote - Where does it say this ?
      
      Many times Jesus believed in what we know is absurd., like Noahs ark and so on. Archeology has basically shown the entire exodus and conquest story is completely false. Israel finkelsteins work has shown these things never happened.
      
      Tell the truth, you just want the bible to say WHAT YOU WANT it say, just like everybody else. Nobody wants to admit its stupid and barbaric.
      
      God is not an author of confusion.
      
      Says who ? Given there are 30k+ xian religions that means theres a lot of confused people. God should go back to kindergarten and learn how to write so ALL people get the same ideas and teachings after reading his book.
      
      Anyway thanks for the links, hope you have a great night :-)
      
      n/p.
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 23/08/2015 - 19:28
      
      +1
      
      @ninetyNineCents: Wow, you really are thick XD https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/206604?page=5#comment-2994…
    - ninetyNineCents on 23/08/2015 - 19:29
      
      -1
      
      @sintro:
      
      Proverbs 1:6 To understand a proverb and the interpretation, the words of the wise and their dark sayings.
      
      YOu just deleted 3/4 or more of the bible. THe entire exodus story is a story and not proverb. YOur also assuming there is a unity in what we call the bble. The ancient jews didnt have a single book, thats a modern invention. NO where in the bible is there an actual bible mentioned.
      
      Matthew 13:34-35 All these things spoke Jesus to the multitude in parables and without a parable he didn't speak to them.
      
      Does that mean Jesus himself is a story ?
      
      Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
      
      None of this actually says the ENTIRE bible is allegory.
      
      √Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
      
      There is no kingdom of god mentioned in the OT. Mark is talking about Mark.
      
      Listen to Bill Donahue, you will clearly understand both literal and symbolic meanings. All the best.
      
      BD also says the bible is filled with astrology, and im pretty sure we all know the value of astrology.
      
      prophecies
      Back to the prophecies. If the bible is allegory, then it cant host any prophecy because its not about the real world, so all your past examples are utter bullshit. If it was all allegory then its history cant be history but some strange edit and that would mean stories like Jesus are well worthless and lies.
    - ninetyNineCents on 23/08/2015 - 19:34
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      ninetyNineCents: You don't read too well do you?? https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/206604?page=5#comment-2994…
      
      I read better than most.
      
      Your like a dodgy con man.
      
      If the ipad box says 8g then its an 8G ipad, nothing more or less.
      
      Prophecies must be perfect, YOu cant present lotto tickets with the wrong numbers, every detail must be correct. None of your prophecies come close to getting all the numbers right.
    - KiLLUMiN4Ti on 23/08/2015 - 20:00
      
      @ninetyNineCents: Could've fooled me :-D
      You still don't get it do you- here it is once again https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/206604?page=5#comment-2994… (you must've been a fun kid to raise).
      
      What's so tragic is how much time you have wasted on this topic to no avail (156 replies and God knows how many thousands of words). Unlike you I actually have more productive things to do with my life than trolling on the net. I truely feel sorry for you man :-(
      
      Remember, even a fool is considered wise when he keeps his mouth shut. Unfortunately you just keep on opening it…
    - ninetyNineCents on 23/08/2015 - 20:23
      
      -1
      
      @4NTiNWOW4RRiOR:
      
      How can you say the bible is true, when you know Noahs ark never happened and the leadup to the Exodus story is total bunk.
    - sintro on 24/08/2015 - 00:05
      
      -1
      
      @ninetyNineCents:
      
      THe entire exodus story is a story and not proverb.
      
      Yes, the story of Exodus represents our escape from the bondage of the lower mind and its fears and guilt symbolised in the Bible by Egypt.
      
      Does that mean Jesus himself is a story ?
      
      Yes, it's a story relating to the macrocosm (the stars and movement of the earth around the sun) and the microcosm (our internal psychology).
      
      None of this actually says the ENTIRE bible is allegory.
      
      I never said the ENTIRE bible, just don't take every word literally. There are a lot of symbolisms external aspects of nature and the internal aspects of self.
      
      BD also says the bible is filled with astrology, and im pretty sure we all know the value of astrology.
      
      It's more to do with astronomy and cosmology. If you actually understand astrology then you'll know it's infinitely more than horoscopes in the newspapers.
      
      prophecies
      Back to the prophecies.
      
      Are you getting mixed up?
      I didn't mention any prophecies.
hangdog on 15/08/2015 - 18:45

+2

When I was at uni, one day I saw a poster that asked, "IS JESUS THE MESSIAH?"

Underneath that, someone had scrawled, "No, he's just a very naughty boy."
Cyb3rGlitch on 15/08/2015 - 19:19

I draw the line at lectures and tutorials. If you're handing out nonsense as a student on campus, then sure. If you're preaching to your class… that's a problem.
stupidmansuit on 15/08/2015 - 21:44

There are many uni groups, and I don't know about your one, but at the one I go to all the groups write stuff with chalk and put up posters everywhere. New uni party, something about grad jobs and internships, x event for y society, etc. Just let all these groups do what ever they want.
cantoangel on 15/08/2015 - 23:25

+2

Why is there not a "I don't give a shit" option?
As long as they're not pestering then what's the problem?
A uni is a great place to be exposed to different cultures and religions - which would serve these n00bs well before going to the workplace and into the greater world.
This Guy on 16/08/2015 - 02:00

The Queer collective at my uni had a lube slide. Just a tiny bit more in your face than some chalk musings.

Enjoy uni while it lasts. Work sucks.

Only at uni was I able to befriend a trans-girl who dropped out because prostitution (as a trans-girl) was far more lucrative than any career she could have started from her degree. I know successful 40 year old, well paid, career engineers that charged (they saw ~40%) what she earnt for an hour.

If you want a laugh, ask an evangelical about original sin, babies and hell.
ninetyNineCents on 16/08/2015 - 09:18

-5

The problem with xians is they don't actually know the bible and have formulated their own local imaginary story. For example ALL the bible authors in the OT are kings and high priests or as we would know them politicians. These people are all killers, rapists, slaves, greedy in other words they are just another example of dictators like Saddam. They don't just make the odd mistake, they are pure evil, like Moses when he kills fifteen thousand followers of Korah who simply spoke up against Moses harshness. No violence from Korah, just Moses a typical Middle East dictator who kills and hates freedom. Notice the pattern, Moses claims its gods will, Saddam is at least honest and just gasses the poor unfortunate Kurds.

Examples can be found for Every bible OT author. These same people NeVEr do a single act of charity, or kindness. ask them to show you from the bible a single goodness from these people in the OT. Remember most of these authors write their own biographies and the sad bit is they don't even want to lie about being nice.

Then point them to slavery, eg Ex 21, where it's pure evil. Then remind them Shariah law is just a modified form of Moses law. It's easy to compare them , line by line they are identical with very very minor differences :

Women are beneath mean
Anti gay
Anti pork
Do circumcision
Believe in Noah, Adam etc
Pray towards their holy city, Muslims originally prayed towards Jerusalem
Idea of kosher foods and their list
Etc
MadTacoWarrior on 16/08/2015 - 12:37

+1

I picked 'not appropriate' not because of the contents, but because of "crap" being "everywhere" on your campus. I respect people's rights to express their beliefs and recruit the gullible. I feel sorry for the atheists and the reglious who feel so strongly about this sort of stuff. Let it be. It's only human.
langitbiru on 16/08/2015 - 16:09

ask them to start a new bachelor degree in that uni. LoL…
too fanatics in religion is not good… once this grow too large, it will hits the political
ProjectZero on 16/08/2015 - 17:26

+1

I'm picking a fourth option… "other"… as there is the whole freedom of speech thing, they're not exactly doing anything wrong. Whether it is appropriate or not really depends on the person who sees it. To a believer of Christianity it would be appropriate, to a believer of another faith not so much. The same can be said if other faiths were plastering it all over the campus.

Having said all that though, as long as they are not hassling you i believe it is their right to promote what ever they believe it (I mean advertising on TV is essentially the same thing). If they do harass you… you can take my approach and laugh in their face and walk off…

N.B. I'm agnostic… essentially if you can proof it I'll believe it… til that day… aliens?
- belongsinforums on 16/08/2015 - 18:25
  
  +1
  
  Doesn't that make you atheist, seeing as you wouldn't believe in any supernatural beings unless they presented themselves to you? also I find it strange how aliens are considered to be supernatural - the chances of life existing on other planets is much greater than the existence of a supreme being or two
  - Cyb3rGlitch on 16/08/2015 - 22:09
    
    People often get agnosticism and atheism mixed up, and/or assume they're mutually exclusive.
  - ProjectZero on 17/08/2015 - 09:12
    
    +1
    
    Doesn't that make you atheist, seeing as you wouldn't believe in any supernatural beings unless they presented themselves to you?
    
    Fair point about the atheist part, though I always though that atheist does not even believe in the chance of a supreme being whereas an agnostic person believes there is a chance of one (or two as you say)…
    
    also I find it strange how aliens are considered to be supernatural - the chances of life existing on other planets is much greater than the existence of a supreme being or two
    
    I didn't mean that aliens can't exist, the possibility is there but there is currently no proof of their exist… and to believe something that is not proven to exist is a little weird to me personally.
    - belongsinforums on 17/08/2015 - 17:38
      
      not attacking you or anything. agreed on all points
    - Cyb3rGlitch on 17/08/2015 - 23:44
      
      This video explains the difference really well (takes a bit to get there).
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk
- SlickMick on 16/08/2015 - 22:02
  
  I reckon that's a good attitude to have. I didn't believe until it was proven to me. Thomas didn't believe until he got his proof.
AusBargainhunter on 16/08/2015 - 17:26

Former Evangelical here.

The thing I just don't ever understand is how people think that writing "Jesus Loves You", or "Jesus Saves", or "John 3:16" actually does anything other than alienate Christians. It really is ridicules.

How about Evangelicals live a life of love, and the "fruits of the spirit" than become annoying, infuriating sales people, who appear to be more interested in pushing their belief and converting people for their own sense of accomplishment.
- SlickMick on 16/08/2015 - 21:59
  
  I'd have thought you'd know why they do it. They should do the former without leaving the latter undone.
  - AusBargainhunter on 17/08/2015 - 02:45
    
    +1
    
    Of course I know why they do it. Mark 16:15.
    
    However, the concept of God is just Santa Claus for grown ups.
    
    The only meaning this existence has is the one you either create, or adopt in your own mind. There is only Now, there is nothing else.
    
    But in the absence of any conclusive evidence to answer the great questions of life, that too is just a belief, just as the Christian story is. :-)
    
    btw Subjective religious experiences are not evidence of the divine, or the origins of the universe.
GS9891 on 16/08/2015 - 17:44

Graffiti is of coruse a no go, unless they've got permission for it somehow.

But speaking/handing out flyers/holding activities using facilities all students are entitled to/etc is fine, universities should also be places of free speech and free ideas.
- unelectric on 16/08/2015 - 20:11
  
  I think they must have permission - the chalk messages are on just about every major pathway including the very entry to the university.
belongsinforums on 16/08/2015 - 18:27

+1

Whenever people say "free speech", they don't really mean "free" speech. If they did, then they wouldn't have anything against, say, KKK pamphlets being handed out at unis. It's "free" as long as it's political or religious, it seems.
stephendt on 16/08/2015 - 22:37

It's threads like these which shows why we need more deals on popcorn.
- SlickMick on 16/08/2015 - 22:41
  
  I'm really surprised. I had no idea ozbargainers had such strong opinions on these matters :)
  - sintro on 16/08/2015 - 23:42
    
    Spiritual TRUTHs should be a freebie to all, that's the OzBargain Spirit!
    
    It pisses me off that Spiritual TRUTHs are stolen/hidden from people.
    
    Religions hand out half-TRUTHs to keep their customers coming back for more but all they are getting are counterfeit made in China products every time!

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