Evangelism at uni? Acceptable or not?

financialwar on 11/08/2015 - 19:00
Last edited 11/08/2015 - 19:46

University should a place of learning, knowledge and reasoning. But at Macquarie University, evangelical Christians are very active, they do this by writing christian and jesus crap everywhere on uni ground in chalk, display jesus loves you signs etc. Christians are the ones that does this, no other religion preaches.

http://www.christianunion.org.au/, the group is funded by https://www.afes.org.au/about

Whose goals are

<i>The Fellowship
AFES employs staff to help and encourage students in their Christian growth and witness, and has student groups on campuses in every state and territory in Australia. Groups hold a variety of activities, such as regular public Bible talks, smaller Bible studies, prayer groups, mid-year conferences and outreach events.

AFES provides materials to students for evangelism and Bible study, and releases various publications such as Salt Magazine and the email prayer resource, Prayernet.

The Vision
Proclaiming Jesus Christ at university to present everyone mature in Him.

The Mission
To promote the mission of Christ in Australian universities by building evangelical student groups that:

evangelise students by proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord
encourage growth toward maturity in Christ
train students in the skills and character to serve Jesus and his people
send graduates throughout Australia and the world to serve Christ
</i>

Do you think this acceptable on a University ground?

Poll Options

  • 248
    appropriate
  • 296
    not appropriate
  • 67
    Should be banned
Education & Work

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 11/08/2015 - 20:29
    -1

    They keep using the word witness, I doesn't mean what they think it does.

    • This Guy on 16/08/2015 - 01:44

      You made me laugh! Cheers.

      I'm not sure why you're down voted.

      The evangelicals at my Uni said that if you base your beliefs on proof (not truth*), you are not a true believer. If you are a witness then you are suggesting you have proof.

      *truth as in what the bible says.

  • spychiatrist on 11/08/2015 - 20:35
    -6

    writing christian and jesus crap everywhere on uni ground in chalk, display jesus loves you signs etc.

    "jesus crap"? See you in hell OP!

  • try2bhelpful on 11/08/2015 - 20:39
    +10

    Universities are full of young impressionable people who will latch onto ideas that make them feel part of a something ideologically larger; whether it is religion, politics, gender identity, environmental issues, sexual experimentation, drugs, drinking, etc. Most of them will come out the other side and the buzz will lessen as they get on with "normal" life. The problem is when some one gets stuck in these ideas and doesn't move on. Families should always make sure their University "children" do not get isolated and fall prey. University can be confronting and difficult to adapt to.

  • h0mbre on 11/08/2015 - 21:04
    +10

    I find young liberals far more irritating than some church kids.
    I work @ MQ and I saw a girl writing garbage on the ground this morning, I didn't even read what it said, nor did the people walking around me.
    How are you going to last a minute in the real world if stuff like this annoys you?

  • DeafMutePretender on 11/08/2015 - 21:05
    +1

    I've never encountered a young liberal before. What is typical young liberal behaviour?

    • DeafMutePretender on 14/08/2015 - 01:28

      By the way, this was a legit question. I'm interested in knowing how young liberals typically conduct themselves in the wild.

    • Tejas57 on 15/08/2015 - 09:16
      +1

      have a look here fresh was the people running the student guild at UQ. fresh had secret meetings to change the rules of the election to hold onto power, the person overseeing the elections was a friend of one of the young libs and even the person who was auditing the election was a liberal.

  • blitz on 11/08/2015 - 21:06
    +1

    Universities are full of young impressionable people who will latch onto ideas that make them feel part of a something ideologically larger; whether it is religion, politics, gender identity, environmental issues, sexual experimentation, drugs, drinking, etc

    Or Microsoft products.

    • DeafMutePretender on 11/08/2015 - 21:34
      +4

      Surely you mean Apple?

      • blitz on 11/08/2015 - 22:14
        +4

        Looks like they got to you too!

      • This Guy on 16/08/2015 - 01:48

        Apple didn't give me a free PC…

  • Mumbles on 11/08/2015 - 23:54
    +5

    As long as there isn't any physical or verbal abuse then I'm OK with special interest groups doing their thing. We all live in a society and university is a fantastic microcosm! In my university there were activists for gay/lesbian/trans, young liberals, loud vomiting music groupies.

    Remember that the fellow students are themselves learning to socialise and learning about others in society. You can make it an opportunity to reason with them, to discuss, deradicalise and share alternate non-Christian points of views with them. There's a chance you will be helping the individual or their movement to understand the world and themselves. Like you said, university is a place to find rational and reasonable minds. That makes these evangelising students the ideal candidates to try to reason with.

    Shutting people out and excluding people/Christians will never help to change their mindset. Instead they become even more entrenched with us versus them mentality.

    By the way, I've learned to enjoy visits from the door knocking Jehovah witnesses and Mormans. They tend to be good listeners. I educate them on their Bible, their church and their founders. I must have shared too well or too often and they have stopped sending me door knockers.

  • christopher8827 on 12/08/2015 - 00:07
    +6

    Does the OP feel threatened haha? Maybe he should try talking to them. They have a stall in the Central Courtyard almost every week, including public forums. The only reason I have talked to them to hear their testimonies, and engage in theological & philosophical discussions.

    To be honest, they are the least obnoxious group on campus. That award would go to the Socialist Alternative and their little same-sex marriage brigade.

    As part of Catholic Society Student Group myself, I see no reason to ban either groups - after all, isn't the true Faith strengthened through trial and tribulations?

  • gummibear on 12/08/2015 - 01:54
    +1

    Just buy some chalk and attach addresses to atheist, Buddhist, jewish, islamic site on all of their scribbles.
    Free speech is for you also.

  • berserkk on 12/08/2015 - 07:21
    +12

    University should a place of learning, knowledge and reasoning.

    I would have thought that's precisely why you wouldn't ban them.
    banning people doesn't encourage learning, knowledge and reasoning.
    have you tried taking to them to learn what they are on about? are they a superstitious bunch or do they rely on knowledge and reasoning?
    maybe you could try reasoning with them and see if they have any knowledge of history, philosophy and logic.
    in fact it could be the only place you get to use those faculties at university!

  • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2015 - 08:05
    +4

    They're allowed to be there as much as you are. As a student group they can get funding just as you can get funding for whatever social group you would make. Socialist alternative are everywhere too at most unies, and are more in your face than any religious group. As long as you're not making a hate group like 'menz rights' there's no problem.

  • terrys on 12/08/2015 - 09:04

    It has been standard at Unis for decades now. It's a natural progression: Students for Jesus > Amway salesdroid > nutrilife > young liberals > Car sales/HR officer
    Just throw in the concept of societies evolving if they try to converse - the UL that an underarm spray of Bundy or stale Fosters will keep them away should be ignored as you'll only disperse the immature ones, and well may attract a "Good worker" variant which can be harder to remove than a tick.

  • Wallace on 12/08/2015 - 10:47
    -1

    Do you think this acceptable on a University ground?

    1. It all comes down to whether the religion being preached is the true religion or not.

    2. If Christianity is the true religion, which denomination is the correct one that is truly Christian. Or do these guys at your Uni have the wrong version of Christianity and they themselves need preaching to?

    3. If they have the correct version of Christianity, do they practice what they preach? (Eg. Don't steal, lie, murder, commit adultery, etc)

    Whether one is trying to prove Christianity or evolution, this is no easy task!

    • SlickMick on 13/08/2015 - 08:28

      Can we put <sarcasm> tags for those of us a bit slow and walk straight into lines like this?
      If I respond I just know I'll get neg'd like JV, then realise it's a quote from some tv show.

  • Roman Sandstorm on 13/08/2015 - 12:29
    +12

    I don't see this as either a 'religious freedom' or a 'free speech' issue.

    To me it is basically a university administration issue. If it is acceptable under their clubs and organisations charter (or terms and conditions) to graffiti, and chalk-write, and gather in groups and hand out flyers, then I don't see any problem.

    If this group (or any other group) goes beyond the stipulated rules, then perhaps a letter to the university's admin seeking clarification of those rules may be in order. If they are a non-registered group, similarly there may be statutory questions you could raise.

    Instead of this being the campus Christians, what if this was the D & D group, or the Young Liberals, or the Chess Club, or the Kropotkin Revivalists? Would you be similarly offended and upset by their chalk markings defiling the visual splendour of the hallowed footpaths?

    As for your clear distaste towards these evangelicals: cool. No problem. It's university. Argue with them. Form your own club. Set up your own display extolling the evils of Christianity. Or smile, and accept them. And ignore them. Whatever.

    Now… if this particular group was being funded (or overtly supported) by the university, to the exclusion of other, similar groups (be they religious, recreational, political, whatever), then I could conceive a legitimate grievance. Contact your Student Union, the university administration, your member of parliament, your rabbi, your hairdresser. This would be a fair gripe. I'd support you.

    But if they are a legit campus registered group, and entitled to display their literature, and assemble in groups of three or more, then I urge you to view this as a learning experience in tolerance and understanding, or in debating skills.

  • ilikeradiohead on 13/08/2015 - 12:29
    +9

    People in this country are too ready to propose banning things that they disagree with. If speech is banned it just sends it underground. If speech is free and in the open then you have an opportunity to reason/argue with those you disagree with. What we really need is something akin to the USA's first amendment.

    • AsSeenOnTv on 15/08/2015 - 18:54

      Unfortunately i was only able to give you one +'ve vote for this comment.

  • bocca on 13/08/2015 - 12:31
    +2

    Don't agree with their message but people can broadcast whatever message they want at uni.

    If we start banning opinions then we become North Korea LOL!

    • Astro551 on 13/08/2015 - 13:32

      too true man

    • FatBlanket on 13/08/2015 - 13:38
      +1

      Yes, the last thing we want to see is atheists suicide bombers blowing themselves up because they were offended by a religious drawing.

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 15/08/2015 - 21:57
      +1

      Its not just North Korea, you'll find that media is controlled in many communist (and even non communist) regimes. I am pretty sure that China control their media, and so do malaysia to some extent.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/08/2015 - 12:49
    +5

    Just think of them as another club, rather than some special religious crap. When you think this way, it is appropriate.

    You don't need to be offended be it, and no one is asking you to be offended by it. Then again, this IS Australia - better Christianity than say… Islam (ok thumb me down but just being honest).

    If you're so offended, rally up a athiest club.

    • financialwar on 13/08/2015 - 12:59
      -3

      Imagine if it IS islam. Imaging islamic club members starting writing Arabic and Allah is great etc on the footpath at MQU. Imagine the uproar it would get.

      People choose to ignore the evangelism simply because it is Christianity.

      • Astro551 on 13/08/2015 - 13:24
        +5

        Is your only issue that they are writing on the footpath, or that they are active on campus? The Islam Awareness Forum (IAF) at UNSW are quite prominent and often have stalls outside the Main Library - they are polite, collected and most importantly have free candy.

        I've learned a lot about Islam from them and I think many religious groups attempt to be (somewhat) objective and fair in their discourse.

        Either way, speaking more generally zlthough there is probably some Islamophobia present in Australia I would disagree that Christians get a free pass to do whatever they want. For example the negative responses surrounding SRE (by FIRIS/HRAA/etc) and their opinions of same-sex marriage policies.

        • skyva on 13/08/2015 - 14:15

          There is no such thing as objectiveness in religion. You believe or don't. It called faith. Otherwise we would have an objective review of religions and decide on a one or maybe a few were objectively correct.

        • Astro551 on 13/08/2015 - 14:47

          @skyva: What I meant by objective is that they listen to your opinion and don't simply discard your arguments which many not align with their own beliefs (so attempting to see both sides of the coin, so maybe impartial/unbiased was a better word to use in that case).

          But yes I agree with you that in the end you can't sit on the fence with a religion (well I say this with Christianity mainly, but I'm sure it applies to others). \

          On that note if I were to pursue this further, I think for everyone objectiveness is actually subjective (ironically). A Christian believes the bible is the final authority so therefore is the objective truth, obviously the Muslim disagrees.

        • skyva on 13/08/2015 - 15:54

          @Astro551:

          Definition of adjective: objective

          1. (of a person or their judgement) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

          You cannot have an objective position based on "faith". Faith is a feeling and does not represent facts.

          Also, these people listen to you then try to change your mind. Nothing you can say to a person of faith will make them believe you. I don't bother, might as well try to have a conversation with a friendly dog.
          There is a reason religious leaders often refer to having a "flock". Not to say they can't be nice people.

        • berserkk on 14/08/2015 - 19:09
          +1

          @skyva:
          I find your definition of faith there a little subjective.

          in Christianity faith is more akin to trust/rely, i.e. because of past evidence we can trust/rely on jesus.

          your definition of objectivity is a good one and I think it should be applied to religions as well rather than judging them based on feelings

        • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 15/08/2015 - 22:00

          @Astro551: What you're describing is not objective, but non-judgemental, empathetic, diplomatic, and willing to listen. But i get your point =)

        • Astro551 on 15/08/2015 - 23:52

          @nairdajun: yeh probably not the best word choice to use! Thanks for clearing that up haha

      • Jamie 007 on 13/08/2015 - 17:59
        +6

        My university had a Muslim association, theyd preach against Israel etc, the university also had Muslim only prayer areas and Muslim only bathrooms. And let's not forget the Islamic association of the University of Sydney recently inviting known ISIS and honor killing supporters to come and lecture.

        Frankly, I'll take the annoying welcomingness from the Christians and Hare Krishnas over the exclusionism and prejudice and worse from other religious groups.

        • jelko on 15/08/2015 - 12:10

          What a disgusting place to study. Just wondering, why did you choose to study there? Wasn't your course offered at a different uni?

      • DeafMutePretender on 14/08/2015 - 01:31

        Same thing with right wing extremism.

        When a self-identified Muslims does bad things = media screams terrorist.
        When a self-identified right-winger white male does the same thing = "a mentally ill person", "lone wolf" etc

        A fan of neither btw.

  • FatBlanket on 13/08/2015 - 13:34
    +2

    I'm fine with religious slogans splashed all over my university. When was the last time you heard a religious person complain about others drawing cartoons of their prophets? Exactly. If the religious are so supportive of free-speech, equality, and freedom, well we can be too. Now lets hold hands and sing a song.

  • thierry on 13/08/2015 - 13:39
    +5

    Can't see any reason why they can't do what they are doing at uni or anywhere for that matter. It's freedom of speech.

    The poll should really be
    - do you believe in free speech
    - do you not believe in free speech.

    Further concerning is the 1st statement 'University should a place of learning, knowledge and reasoning. '
    financialwar - that is the exact reason why religion should be in university - christianity only proposes, it doesn't impose views on you.

    For those who say it's 'not appropriate', are you actually encouraging dialogue on just saying 'I don't agree, I don't want to hear about it, and I don't want dialogue'.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/08/2015 - 14:11
    +1

    I heard you like freedom. Freedom to do what you want or freedom from others who want to do what they want to you?

  • skyva on 13/08/2015 - 14:12

    I have seen some funny stuff. I am personally against religion being part of any educational institution. However in the US it gets funny when religious groups want free speech.
    For example, some Christian groups sponsored a section of highway, keeping it clean, and they get to put up a sign, advertising Jesus and their good works. So, a satanic cult is trying to rise funds to sponsor a section of highway and to get their own sign.

    I am sure the Christian groups will welcome it right?
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-satanic-temple-adopt-…

    Also see here:
    http://politix.topix.com/story/9715-satanists-reveal-7-foot-…

    Should do the same thing at your uni and you will soon find that everyone agrees religion is either a free for all or not at all.
    I am in favour of the latter. I do not believe there is a place in the general education community for belief systems that ask you to ignore facts over faith.

  • uder on 13/08/2015 - 14:14
    +3

    Part of the appeal of university is its diversity.

  • tomleonhart on 13/08/2015 - 15:49
    +5

    Welcome back from the penalty box. Hope you don't get banned again.

    • belongsinforums on 13/08/2015 - 17:34

      how do you know he got banned? I'm trying to find the offending comment in his history but…

      • tomleonhart on 13/08/2015 - 17:43

        He started a lot of dramatic post. I'm not sure how he got banned though.

  • infinite on 13/08/2015 - 16:27
    -3

    This place is full of as many religious nutters and god botherers as it is PETA morons. Good luck getting much rational discussion, especially from those who believe in magical all-powerful sky fairies and their associated level 70 magic powers.

    Breaks out the popcorn

    • Astro551 on 13/08/2015 - 16:39
      +4

      There is a way to have rational discussion, it doesn't involve mud slinging and being condescending

  • belongsinforums on 13/08/2015 - 17:08
    -2

    As a state-funded service, public education should not allow this proselytisation. That is the separation between State and church

    • tryagain on 15/08/2015 - 18:43
      +1

      If they outlawed it as you assert that would actually be no seperation. Seperation has to go both ways otherwise it doesn't actually exist. North Korea is always an option though if you want a government that outlaws it.

      • belongsinforums on 15/08/2015 - 20:13
        -2

        What? I said nothing about law nor separation.

        • tryagain on 15/08/2015 - 23:37

          What? I said nothing about law nor separation.

          Umm, yes you did.

          That is the separation between State and church

        • belongsinforums on 16/08/2015 - 08:28
          -1

          @tryagain: Yes, separation, not seperation.

  • mafmouf on 13/08/2015 - 17:38

    Is this similar to Credo at UTS? I don't follow either so I'm not sure. Anyways, Credo seemed quite active while I was at uni and had posters, t-shirts and chalk writings at some places. I only know this because I saw them busy doing things everything and a friend was/is involved.

    I didn't have a problem as they weren't actively seeking to take over the world or convert everyone. They ran their events and did their thing without being too loud or disruptive around the campus.

    • Astro551 on 13/08/2015 - 17:59

      Yeh they are all AFES groups which op linked, the equivalent at UNSW is Campus Bible Study (CBS) and Evanglical Union (EU) at USYD.

      • financialwar on 13/08/2015 - 18:51

        Where do AFES get their funding from? Are they linked to a church?

        • Astro551 on 13/08/2015 - 19:31

          Hmm it is my understanding that AFES is funded by Christian giving/donations. And to the best of my knowledge it is not associated with a church.

          Just a note on what you said in your original post, although AFES is the body which overseas many evangelical Christian groups in campus' in Australia - I'm not sure that they primarily fund them as well.

          For example, Campus Bible Study at UNSW will ask current students and recent graduates that if they find that the work CBS did on campus to be valuable, to consider giving regularly. This money will be the majority of the funding which goes towards the cost of resources and permanent staff workers at CBS.

          As to whether or not there is any financial relationship between CBS and AFES (and by extension CU), it's not something which crossed my mind before but is interesting now that you mention it. Perhaps AFES operates on a similar model of giving by asking people who have benefited from their ministry.

          Hopefully I've answered your questions to an extent, you've given me some things to think about too.

          EDIT: Going on the AFES website I can see there is the option to give to selected Campuses or Staff workers, so there is some relationship with the funding. But still not sure what budget AFES works on.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/08/2015 - 18:56
    +1

    Their religion is peaceful and does not hurt anyone

    • infinite on 13/08/2015 - 21:57
      +9

      ….. said no historian ever.

    • Mumbles on 17/08/2015 - 14:16

      I'm with Infinite. Christians claim to be peaceful but they hurt people just as often as any power hungry organisation. They just cover up things a lot better and do it with impunity.

      Have a look at the Australia Royal Commission that's investigating sex offences which started off with Police officers covering up for priests.

      Another example is US president George Bush who went to war in Iraq, who created the "Axis of Evil".

      Its important to take those opportunities to reach out and give good advice to the more rational minded Christians. Get them to exercise their minds and ask more questions.

  • diddy50 on 13/08/2015 - 19:45
    +5

    I don't like the Socialists and those crazy left wing groups that flood universities, but who cares.

    It's freedom of speech and it's appropriate for all groups to be there. Argue, discuss, talk, compete… It's healthy and democratic

    • cryptos on 13/08/2015 - 22:56

      Yeah, the right wings much better, go Murdoch!

  • dbun1 on 13/08/2015 - 22:36
    +5

    How is this different to every other party/body that peddles their cause at uni?

  • rodinthink on 13/08/2015 - 23:36
    +8

    Funny thing is at my uni there is christian organization called
    CDU(Charles Darwin University) Christian Centre, It's superbly ironic innit?

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