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Panasonic LUMIX CM1 Camera Phone $499 @ Retravison

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Panasonic LUMIX CM1 Camera Phone $499 @ Retravison
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RogueWolf on 22/02/2016 - 11:49 retravision.com.au (2918 clicks)

Cant say ive ever heard of this phone, no idea if its any good, specs arent bad for the price, bit on the bulky side, looks more for those that want a good camera, retravision seems to be the cheapest elsewhere ranging $700-$900 local or $600s from B&H, not many retailers sell it likely not that popular .. click & collect for those in wa or delivery to vic came to $20

Reviews are pretty good & where done when it was priced $1000-$1500 average 4/5 - 9/10

review 1
review 2
review 3
review 4

Specs:
4.7" Full-HD Touch LCD
Android™ 4.4 KitKat®
Qualcomm® SnapdragonTM 801 2.3GHz
20.1 Mega Pixels
1" High Sensitivity MOS Sensor
Leica DC Elmarit 1:2,8 Lens
Venus Engine
Full Manual Control
"Ready to Shoot" Camera Switch
4K Video
4K Pre-Burst
4K Photo Capture
Photo Search App
LTE Connectivity

Mobile Camera Mobile Phone Panasonic Android

Related Stores

Retravision
Retravision

closed Comments

  • bargain_knight on 22/02/2016 - 12:14
    +4

    A + from me for just finding something a little different to the norm. A great post.

    I probably would carry two devices, but I see the value here.

  • bluepanther on 22/02/2016 - 12:18

    Any custom rom available? 4.4 is a bit toooo old

    • tif1607 on 22/02/2016 - 12:20

      5.0 is available to update

    • iridiumstem on 22/02/2016 - 13:54
      +3

      Would you want to put custom ROMs on this though? More than often camera gets worse with aosp ROMs.

      • DavidFong on 22/02/2016 - 13:55
        +3

        5.0.2 is the OFFICIAL update from Panasonic

        • iridiumstem on 22/02/2016 - 13:56
          +1

          I was talking to bluepanther who was asking whether there are custom ROMs for this.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2016 - 12:20
    -2

    Great price. But lens is only f/2.8 and no IS.

    • tif1607 on 22/02/2016 - 12:21

      I hesitate more with the front 1 megapixel though

      • edrift on 22/02/2016 - 12:34

        yeah this is a huge letdown.

    • edrift on 22/02/2016 - 12:33
      +8

      yes it's only f2.8 but correct if i'm wrong (which i very well could be), i dont think you can simply compare this f2.8 aperture to other normal phone cameras (e.g. galaxy s6 with f2.0) as the sensor size is much larger on this panasonic phone.

      From my limited understanding, the aperture determines the amount of light that it can let into the sensor and thus the ability to capture better (clearer) photos in low-light conditions. But couple a relatively large aperture with large sensor, then it should be able to capture pretty decent shots even compared to say the galaxy S6 and LG G4.

      Bit of a bummer on the lack of OIS, but perhaps there's some form of digital/software IS available?

      very tempted to buy this considering it's confirmed that android 5.0 is available and i even saw a recent patch released for stagefright this month (which potentially shows panasonic are committed to updating the firmware).

        • mrrizzle on 22/02/2016 - 13:39
          +8

          iPhone 6 sensor size 17 mm2.
          Lumix CM1 sensor size is 116 mm2.

          Big difference, even accounting for the bump in megapixels.

        • mrrizzle on 22/02/2016 - 16:39
          +3

          @Orpheus: Shutter speed can go between 60 seconds and 1/2000 seconds. ISO between 100-25,6000. iPhone goes to 1/2000 I think too. I'm not sure what part of this you don't understand, but this phone has arguably the best camera of any smartphone on the market for still photography.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2016 - 17:30
          -6

          @mrrizzle: Im talking about low light situations, where phone cameras are mostly used. You do know that shooting at 1/2000th of a second at night will get you a black image, right?

        • mrrizzle on 23/02/2016 - 00:11
          +2

          @Orpheus: I see you're familiar with shutter speed and aperture as the two of three things that dictate exposure. The third is sensitivity, aka ISO.

          Please inform yourself on how digital cameras work before commenting any further. Do you ever wonder how a full frame DSLR can gather more light than a m43?

        • [Deactivated] on 23/02/2016 - 11:00
          -1

          @mrrizzle: A faster lens and IS is just as important than just a larger sensor when it comes to lower light situations. Same thing happened when people bought the 36mp Full Frame a7r camera and expected better pictures. With no IS and if they mounted a slower lens, all they got was huge resolution blurry images and were wondering why. Panasonic not implementing IS on the CM1 is a strange move. If you get blurry images on big dslr cameras, you're going to need IS even more on a slim phone that has no grip. All the people saying this is like the Sony RX series because of the 1" sensor are forgetting that the Sony's also have faster lenses and IS.

        • mrrizzle on 23/02/2016 - 11:06
          +1

          @Orpheus: I agree that aperture and IS are important, and I agree this doesn't match the quality of an RX100. I'm comparing it with other phones, that's all, and saying the sensor size negates the lack of IS and f/2.8. I'm also saying that you won't necessarily be getting blurry images as the phone can ramp up the ISO and provide clean images compared to other smartphones.

        • eug on 23/02/2016 - 11:25
          +2

          @mrrizzle: What Orpheus clearly doesn't understand is that an f/2.8 lens on a 1" sensor lets through WAY more light than an f/1.8 lens on a 1/3" sensor.

          He just googled for reviews and read the "Cons" part in the dpreview review without actually understanding what it meant.

          To recap, Orpheus said:

          F/2.8 is a stop slower than other phones and the lack of IS puts it behind another 3-4 stops. It will struggle in lower light.

          and

          @mrrizzle: So you will have great detail of blurry images due to lower shutter speed and no stabilisation? Fantastic.

          …which was taken from dpreview - "Lack of OIS in combination with slow shutter speeds can lead to image blur in low light"

          DPreview is referring to the CM1's auto exposure mode using shutter speeds as low as 1/13. This is what they had to say about the CM1's low-light sensitivity in general:

          While the CM1's bright light performance is excellent, it is in low light where the Panasonic hybrid camera, in comparison to its smartphone rivals, really shines.

          There is no doubt that if image detail in low light is a priority, the Panasonic CM1 is currently the top choice among smartphones.

          So clearly the f/2.8 lens doesn't put it behind other phones by "2-3 stops".

          Judging from his past comments on other camera deals, I'm not too surprised.

        • Duff5000 on 23/02/2016 - 14:51
          +1

          @eug:
          +1 to eug.

          High iso performance of the larger sensor will destroy that of the regular camera phones. Easily more than makes up for the 1 stop difference. Lack of image stabilsation on a fixed 28mm is no big deal, it is had zoom as well then i would be concerned.

          I would take the much larger sensor and non IS 2.8 over any of the small sensors regular camera phones.

      • Namesareapain on 22/02/2016 - 13:44

        Something like that.
        The F Stop is the ratio of the size of the lens entrance pupil to focal length, a larger sensor needs a longer focal length to have the same angle of view as a smaller sensor (e.g a larger sensor needs 50mm vs a smaller sensor of 1/4 the size that needs 25mm for the same angle of view). Thus for a given F Stop and angle of view, the larger sensor will get more light (and have a thinner depth of field).

    • cycleri3 on 22/02/2016 - 23:24
      +2

      This is one of the best cameras you can get on a phone. The f/2.8 lens is slower than competition but sensor is bigger. It has a 1 inch sensor - same size as Sony's RX100 series of high end compact cameras.

  • imnotarobot on 22/02/2016 - 12:57
    +13

    I have one.
    1 inch sensor.
    If this means nothing to you, stick with a galaxy or iPhone.
    Yes it is running Android 5. I doubt it will get anything newer. These were flops when released as they were retailed at 1400 bucks. Only recently we've seen these fire sales.

    Image quality excellent. Better than point and shoots. Not better than most consumer mirrorless/m43.

    Good if you want a decent camera with you all the time.
    If you're happy with your galaxy, stick with it.

    • edrift on 22/02/2016 - 17:27

      Aside from the OS update, did Panasonic change/improve their actual camera software/app?

      Do you only use the native panasonic camera app or are there other good camera apps that work well with the hardware? (i'm assuming there aren't many 3rd party apps that can fully take advantage of the hardware)

      Out of curiosity, does the phone/camera feel bulky in the pocket? What phone were you carrying before you switched to this?

      • imnotarobot on 22/02/2016 - 17:39
        +2

        Nothing to improve really. I find the ease of use and functionality to be better than any other camera phone I've ever used.
        I shoot raw and JPEG so use the standard app. I don't know why you'd want a different app. The app does everything I need. And if you want those stupid art filters, it does those too.
        It is bulky. Yes.
        Came from a Lumia 735 and galaxy S5.

        • edrift on 22/02/2016 - 17:44

          Thanks mate.

          Once I can get over the bulk of it I'll probably buy one. Yet to see one in person so will hopefully find somewhere that has it in stock.

        • eug on 22/02/2016 - 17:46
          +1

          @edrift: Some Myers have it on display, but they won't go below $799.

    • kracken on 23/02/2016 - 11:05

      what did/do you use as a phone cover/case..?

      • imnotarobot on 23/02/2016 - 16:04

        I use a leather type flip case from ratakuen or aliexpress/ other Asian marketplaces etc.
        The cotta cases are nice but stupid expensive.
        You can get a case for about 50 bucks from China.

        I would suggest the cotta lens hood. I use one. Protects the lens quite a bit and can fit 28mm filters to it.

        Good luck

  • aoeueoa on 22/02/2016 - 12:58
    +7

    Came here to say I thought Retravision was dead. Have not heard their name mentioned for a good 3 years or so!

    • ilikeradiohead on 22/02/2016 - 14:37

      They're still quite big in WA. I think the East Coast stores might have gone into receivership though?

      • macrocephalic on 22/02/2016 - 16:43

        There was another Retravision deal a few weeks ago, I think the closest store to the east coast is in SA.

  • ShinyDiamond on 22/02/2016 - 13:06

    These were $1,500 at launch

    • RogueWolf on 22/02/2016 - 13:10

      shame all phones dont come down this quick in price

  • happychappy1 on 22/02/2016 - 13:14
    -1

    This isn't that great - the battery is non-removable, and it's very thick at 21mm. If the battery dies, it'll literally be a brick in your pocket.

    • rodericb on 22/02/2016 - 17:18
      +3

      Think of it as a camera with a phone built in.

      • happychappy1 on 22/02/2016 - 21:25

        Yeah, but if it were like most cameras, it would have replaceable batteries that are easy to purchase, and can be charged externally to the device. Now that would be a game changer, as most phones with removable batteries don't have chargers for them (that can be charged outside of the phone).

        • spaij on 23/02/2016 - 07:49

          You can often find third party chargers for removable batteries. Though they are from no name brands on eBay / aliexpress, so you have to hope they work well & don't kill your battery….

  • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2016 - 13:24
    +5

    I like my S6 Edge and I have an SLR but I want this phone for some reason..

  • yaziyo on 22/02/2016 - 13:27
    +2

    This is so cool. I kind of want it but I just don't think I can justify $500 for a now old phone with similar specs as my current LG G2, just for the upgrade of a really good camera.

    Interestingly, you can get a 4 year "extended warranty" for another $90. Normally I consider extended warranties to be a scam but I'd challenge you to find a 5 year old smartphone with nothing wrong with it… An interesting option that's for it.

    • abc on 22/02/2016 - 14:29

      I wonder how it would work? Most probably either Retravision or this kind of device will not exist in 5 years?

      • yaziyo on 22/02/2016 - 15:24

        If Retravision is out of business I'd say you're probably poop outta luck.

        Otherwise the terms of these is that they'll either fix it, give you something comparable (good luck finding a comparable phone to this though, especially since Retravision doesn't really sell phones), or give you a gift card for the value you bought it from. If it was any other store than Retravision, a $500 gift card would easily get you pretty damn good phone.

  • Fiximol on 22/02/2016 - 13:51
    +1

    They gave these away for free in NZ last year with a GX8.

    https://www.mu-43.com/threads/new-zealand-gx8-with-free-lens…

  • Tech and cars on 22/02/2016 - 13:57
    +2

    Couple comments about this product for the camera gurus:

    • 10.2mm focal length - effective 36mm focal length in 35mm format. : this should be nice for some reasonable Shallow depth of field portraits

    -f2.8-some large value - quite nice on such a large sensor.

    -Shoots in JPEG only. I was about to hit buy - but this stopped me.

    The new LG G4's can shoot in raw - which I would like, if I am moving to a "portable prime lens pocket SLR".

    Overall - very very cool find!! Thanks OP! Nice to see something different every now and then!

    • DavidFong on 22/02/2016 - 14:00

      Actually, it can shoot RAW, or RAW+JPEG. But I think the last is quite slow from shot-to-shot.

    • eug on 22/02/2016 - 14:01

      -Shoots in JPEG only

      It shoots in RAW and RAW+JPEG.

      Actually, it can shoot RAW, or RAW+JPEG. But I think the last is quite slow from shot-to-shot.

      This review says:

      Raw files and RAW+JPEG pairs appeared to be saved almost as quickly as JPEGs.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2016 - 14:17
      -5
      • 1" sensor
      • reasonable Shallow depth of field portraits

      Pick one.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2016 - 15:52
      -1

      Also it's 28mm equiv, not 35mm. Big difference.

    • YZYgold on 22/02/2016 - 16:04

      It shoots raw as well.

  • go2home on 22/02/2016 - 15:25
    +3

    I have one, and it's dead right now. Remember, don't root it! The kingroot is shit! After root and unroot, the system can't update anymore. Then I tried to root it and replace it with SuperSU but the system goes to boot loop. There is no way goes to safe mode / download mode for this phone. Therefore I got an expensive brick.

    Remember, don't root it!

    • kracken on 23/02/2016 - 11:05

      what did/do you use as a phone cover/case..?

      • go2home on 24/02/2016 - 11:54

        No case. All the available OEM cases are too expensive and thick.

  • BuyoTheCat on 22/02/2016 - 15:31

    Reviews says that it is the equivalent of 28mm angle of view with 135 film format (or 18mm if you are used to cropped sensor DSLR)

    I will think about it a little. Very keen to try it out.

  • tintal on 22/02/2016 - 16:03

    any cash back?

  • Posts on 22/02/2016 - 16:49

    Looks like a decent camera spec for a phone from a photographers point of view.

    Has the same sensor size as the Sony RX100 or Nikon 1 series.

    Crop factor is 2.7 from memory.

    Great price for what it is.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2016 - 17:01

    Only thing stopping me from buying would be the 16gb internal storage. I wish apps can be easily moved to the SD card but there's no easy way to do it for anyone that doesn't want to root, aka voiding warranty. I sometimes miss old Android.

    • edrift on 22/02/2016 - 17:24

      i thought you've always been able to move apps (or at least part of apps) to the external SD card storage?
      i know my current phone that is running android 5.0 can.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2016 - 17:43

        I think it depends on the app, I tried a few and more than half of those couldn't be moved to the SD card. (eg. eBay can be moved but Twitter can't)
        I'm not really sure why that's the case though, perhaps a security measure?!

  • skazclaw on 22/02/2016 - 17:48

    Wish the screen was bigger.

  • bargainjargon on 22/02/2016 - 17:48

    I'd love to get one especially at that price but my phone and RX100M2 works well for me. If both those things suddenly stop working, I might consider getting this.

  • supnigs super skids on 22/02/2016 - 21:19

    What a cool camera

  • twister292 on 23/02/2016 - 01:49

    +1 for the effort and deal, but I'm not convinced of the device itself…too big to be a phone, too limited to be a serious camera (no xenon flash)

    • tif1607 on 23/02/2016 - 10:13

      so they have figured and made the new CM10 without the phone function but kept the android with 4g and wifi so people won't complaint it's too big to be a phone, but I rather have the phone function there since the new model have the exact sensor and all…….

  • dcsydkusanagi on 23/02/2016 - 10:45
    +1

    The deal is expired now.

    • edrift on 23/02/2016 - 11:09

      Damn you're right.

      Looks like I missed out.

  • tintal on 23/02/2016 - 18:21

    already expired : (

  • eug on 24/02/2016 - 12:27
    +1

    Mine just arrived. They included an unbranded custom cover for free. Thanks Retravision!

    • imnotarobot on 24/02/2016 - 22:33

      I got one too, from a different retailer at the same price.
      I think it's a Panasonic supplied generic cover… With the flap over the lens?
      Hope you like the camera/phone. I reckon they're great.

      • eug on 24/02/2016 - 23:04

        Yup, that's the one. Where did you get yours from?
        It's definitely the best camera on a phone I've ever used. :)

      • edrift on 25/02/2016 - 07:20

        Did you price match?
        Where did you buy it from?

      • tintal on 25/02/2016 - 10:37

        where did u buy from??
        thanks

      • imnotarobot on 25/02/2016 - 13:05

        Got it from an Eastern States camera store two months ago during Xmas sales. Coupled it with TRS it worked out the same.
        They no longer stock it. Sorry.

  • tintal on 24/02/2016 - 15:10

    No more deal this one? Or anyone can find anywhere this?

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