Help me pick my new car out of this three

dosada on 16/03/2016 - 00:51

It's time to upgrade. I have been looking the last few weeks for a new car and have come down to the three listed here. Has anyone got one of them and can report how good/bad it is and why i should/shouldn't go for it?

  • Jeep Cherokee Sport 2.4L Tigershark engine

  • Mitsubishi Outlander XLS 2WD 2.0L

  • Holden Captiva LS 2.4L

This is pretty much all i can afford, i am after a brand new car, not demo or used because of the included warranty. Mainly i will use it on my own, sometimes with family (2 adults, 3 kids)

Any input appreciated.

Poll Options

  • 206
    Buy the Outlander
  • 9
    Buy the Cherokee
  • 6
    Buy the Captiva
Automotive

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2016 - 01:15
    +9

    Hey look everybody, dosada bought a Jeep!

    • dosada on 16/03/2016 - 01:45

      Nah, that only works with the Robinson's!

    • dins on 16/03/2016 - 02:33
      +1

      He's gonna need a bigger boat!

      • altomic on 16/03/2016 - 07:59
        +72

        He's gonna need a tow truck.

  • Findo on 16/03/2016 - 04:01
    +23

    An outlander, jeep or a craptiva? Not a hard choice, given you've listed two crappy cars in your options.

  • RobMel on 16/03/2016 - 06:22
    +5

    If you have limited budget you couldnt afford maintenance (=frequent repairs) and petrol of Cheap JerryCan.

    • theStinge on 16/03/2016 - 10:23

      LOL @ "Cheap JerryCan" — nice play on words. And works on a couple of levels :)

  • Austaurean on 16/03/2016 - 08:10
    +21

    Remember that a dealer will stand by the factory warranty, eg (from a EX-cars salesperson and Sales Manger view point.

    don't disregard a demo, as sometimes its just a new car, just make sure its not registered.
    When a Demo is put on i.e. notified to the Manufacturer that it is a demo (to get a $$demo bonus) - although not necessarily registered,
    The Dealer covers the 'lost' portion of the Manufacturers Warranty by it being a Demo, as if it was still factory warranty.

    disclaimer: things change all the time, so its best to ensure this is still the case and have it in writing.

    When choosing a vehicle its all about which do YOU like the best, what does the job the best that you want, power, size, economy power etc. how much can you afford, what can you see the most value in and can you justify the expense, no point buying one that may be cheaper if you prefer another out of the 3 you like due to the $$, in the long run, you will be much happier.

    Also without any deals a new vehicle may have only 2 to 4k in profit margin upto 5k or so in a more expensive model., a zero deal when I was selling was no margin and only %990 dealer delivery being charged not the %1495/$1995 that you see.

    The big dollar discounts you see are from utilising all margin, shuffling of bonus's paid to a dealer and any other bonus that may be applicable, i.e. last years build bonus etc. Buying a demo, can sometimes be a brand new car, its just been notified to the manufacturer that its a demo to make the numbers a dealer needs to make certain sales numbers to be eligible for bonus's per vehicle sold in that month.

    Also don't do a deal without the sales person having to have the manger come in on the deal, ie, and be prepared to do a deal and sign the papers, much better chance of getting to the bottom dollar.

    Also, as a last moment throw in I'd say, once you have settled down to the nitty gritty and its down to you saying yes, throw in 'I will do it now but only if you throw in front year and rear factory mats and head light protectors etc', so leave some small things you want up your sleeve.
    Dealers will want to sell you just the car and once the deal is done, move onto the accessories to regain some margin, plus sales people generally earn a small bonus for 3 plus accessories 'sold' to a customer,

    Also if you have a trade, be prepared to be offered wholesale as that's all its worth to a dealer who has to have it detailed, workshopped and any thing wrong with it fixed, plus they want to make a couple of thousand as well. I Would recommend taking it to a couple of used car yards and ask them to buy it, see what they offer so you have an idea of what it may mean, when finalising a deal with a trade, make sure they shop it around extensively don't take the 1st, 2nd offering etc. If you keep it, you will get more privately, but what is your time worth..

    • BestofOZB on 17/03/2016 - 10:42
      +3

      Always good to get an "insider" advice.

    • Quotationz on 20/03/2016 - 08:22

      +1 for getting the manager to offer a better deal. Did this yesterday and ended up getting a ripper deal

  • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 09:16
    +9

    none of these 3

  • Powershopz on 16/03/2016 - 09:32
    +10

    Go for none of these.

  • Hellfire on 16/03/2016 - 09:55
    +5

    None would be my vote.

    I have a Captiva and really happy with it except for the fuel consumption. I know a lot of people have issues so that is why I'd caution against.

    Outlander is probably the pick of the three but isn't really nice to drive due to lack of power.

    Jeeps have a bad rap due to their mechanical reliability but the Cherokee looks and feels nice.

  • RobMel on 16/03/2016 - 10:13
    +1

    Much better get a demo or almost new car of good quality than one of those.

  • rambutann on 16/03/2016 - 10:32
    +10

    None would also be my vote but if I had to vote it would be the Mitsubishi (why the hell do they call them mitsies in the ads? - trying to put in a bit of Australianism but god damn its painful).

  • holdenmg on 16/03/2016 - 10:53
    +13

    You would have to be a complete Pajero to consider a Jeep.

  • coffeecoffeecoffee on 16/03/2016 - 11:59

    Are all 3 in car seats?

  • pointless martyr on 16/03/2016 - 12:00
    +19

    Out of these three, id opt for the bus

  • JetLi on 16/03/2016 - 12:06

    Is the Outlander really that bad?

  • Fizzgig on 16/03/2016 - 12:28

    Mitsubishi!

  • Fake News on 16/03/2016 - 12:38
    +4

    I would not go near a Jeep or the Craptiva- a family friend used to work at Holden doing testings on new vehicles and he's told us some horror stories about the issues with near new vehicles when they're putting them through their paces!

    • Abaddon on 17/03/2016 - 10:54
      +1

      A friend of mine works in the service department of a dealer (where one of the brands is Jeep).

      Told me never to buy one. Citing the quality of the electronics and frequent expensive failures.

  • King Tightarse on 16/03/2016 - 12:48
    +1

    Votes for Holden = 0
    pretty much sums up where things have gone.

    • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 13:40
      +2

      Problem is, Captiva is plagued by the bad reputation it had from the start. We've been shown the graphs lately, and the rep matches the number of warranty claims from the early models. Over 90% of cars had a warranty claim. Now, there's no saying how big the claim is, but there's no getting away from the fact it wasn't great.

      Since then, they've worked on each fault as it comes along, and now it's around 40%, near that of the VF (which is around 30-35% off the top of my head).

      Now, I'm not here necessarily defending the Captiva - everyone has seen/heard/read the stories, I've seen many come in on flat-beds, etc, I'm here to state it's case :)

      So, assuming you have a more reliable car now. The new model comes with Apple Carplay/Android Auto, which I've messed around with, worked fine, voice recognition was good and the overall multimedia system works well. The 2.4 uses more fuel than it's rated to, yes, expect about 10L/100km real-world figures. But hey, at least it's a regular gearbox and not a CVT (yuck).

      Also, till the weekend you get services covered till 2020, so all capped price services are paid for, which is a cool lil bonus in the long run, especially if funds are tight.

      So, there's the defence for the 'Craptiva', make of that what you will :)

    • Bigsta on 16/03/2016 - 22:55
      +1

      its not a holden its a daewoo, although not many cars will be holdens for much longer

      • IMFrugl on 18/03/2016 - 10:37

        Yes, it's a Daewoo (now GM Korea). My 1997 Daewoo gave trouble long before my 1996 Honda. I'll avoid until they can bring themselves on par with other Korean makes like Hyundai. FWIW, it was a cheap car which ran well while it ran well. Daewoo was sold with around 90,000km on it almost as scrap, Honda was sold with about 260,000km in it to a family I know who still uses it.

  • nubzy on 16/03/2016 - 12:55
    -6

    New Jeeps have come a long way and are very nice cars now. But the higher price and twice a year servicing is off putting. And there is the odd lemon. I'd still take a chance on one over your other two choices though.

  • Thefreshprince on 16/03/2016 - 13:13
    -5

    I recommended the "captiva" only because it had zero likes and I love an underdog ;)

    • King Tightarse on 16/03/2016 - 13:25
      +2

      You wrecked my "0 for the Holden comment"
      :p

  • tomleonhart on 16/03/2016 - 13:38
    +1

    Based on statistic on this article, it makes sense to vote for the "Mitsubishit" as opposed to the other 2.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/retail/owners-of-lemon-cars-a…

  • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2016 - 14:00

    For those people who say not any of the three. Which ones would you recommend then (Besides a toyota or a mazda).

    • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 16:22

      what do you want it to do? and your budget? and preferences? (auto / man / petrol / diesel etc…etc…)

      • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2016 - 16:57

        To quote the OP

        "This is pretty much all i can afford, i am after a brand new car, not demo or used because of the included warranty. Mainly i will use it on my own, sometimes with family (2 adults, 3 kids)

        Any input appreciated."

        Maybe petrol Auto? <30 or 35K?

    • tasty-falafel on 17/03/2016 - 12:44
      -2

      I would recommend the SsangYong Rodius. Got one late last year and have had hardly any mechanical problem. Price is also very good.

  • altomic on 16/03/2016 - 15:29
    -1

    I have a 2013 diesel 7 seater. Nice car. Good economy. I like it.

    • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 16:22
      +1

      what car? else not a great comment !

      • altomic on 16/03/2016 - 16:24
        +2

        Sorry, Outlander aspire DID.

  • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 17:39
    -4

    with max price of $30k driveaway…..(in order)

    Mazda 3 SP25

    Hyundai Tucson

    Kia Sportage

    Subaru Impreza or XV

    Toyota Corolla

    • dosada on 16/03/2016 - 18:18
      +1

      The Mazda 3 is a fair bit smaller than the ones listed. The Sportage starts over $30000.-, same with Tuscson
      Impreza and Corolla are small too.

    • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 18:25
      +11

      OP asking about Outlander, you suggest Corolla/Mazda 3…?!

      W

      T

      F

      ?!

        • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 18:29
          +5

          My head is pulled in and it's part of my job to find the right car for the requirement. Just because you can fit 3 people across the back seat of a Corolla, doesn't mean it's as comfortable and spacious as what the OP is looking for.

          Think next time.

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 18:31
          -7

          @Spackbace:

          I'll try sooooo must harder next time, just to please you, thanks for the reminder.

          I was actually throwing some different vehicles out there to make the OP think, to make sure they were exploring all options.

        • johnno07 on 17/03/2016 - 09:27
          +8

          @oscargamer: Can I recommend a Harley? Sure, its only got two wheels, and it doesn't fit any of the OP's requirements - but I just want to make sure they're exploring all options.

      • captobvious on 17/03/2016 - 01:08
        +1

        Thats a bit outlandish dont you think?

    • kryptoz on 16/03/2016 - 22:07

      The Hyundai Tucson is more reliable and better build quality than the Kia Sportage or the Daewoo (Holden) Captiva, but Tuscon is more expensive. The Daewoo Captiva is likely to suffer horribly on resale once GM closes here, even though it's assembled in Korea — apparently that's the price of a lemon badge.

      Sportage is probably the best value.
      The Subaru XV is great value / drive / style, but not a lot of boot space.

  • dosada on 16/03/2016 - 18:19
    +3

    Thanks for all the input guys. I think i will have to reconsider if it really has to be a new car. After reading all of this i might be better off with something about 2-3 years old costing me the same money.

    Thanks again for all the help

    • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 18:23

      What is your absolute maximum drive away price?

      • dosada on 16/03/2016 - 18:26

        I really wouldnt want to go over 30000.- but it's not a must.

        • Joxer on 17/03/2016 - 04:19

          I bought a dodge journey 3 years ago and it's actually not a bad car. Now badged fiat freemont with 2.4L engine which means better economy and less power. Has 7 seat Option and booster seats built in although you don't need them anymore. Price range is 30K. Consider if you're going to sell when the warranty ends as parts could get expensive.

          Drove an x trail and they're not too bad. If you turn off the economy mode the transmission and throttle response is a lot better.

        • he3at on 17/03/2016 - 07:28
          +1

          You could get into a CX5 Maxx FWD auto for under $30k

        • Abaddon on 17/03/2016 - 11:06

          @Joxer: I'm also a fan of the X-Trail

          A couple of year old Forester may also fit the bill?

        • Pratty on 17/03/2016 - 16:00

          Can get yourself a brand new Tucson, Active X model? $29,990 2015 plate driveaway at a dealer near me in QLD. 5 year warranty, capped price servicing…

    • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 18:24

      How old are the kids?

      • dosada on 16/03/2016 - 18:27

        14, 10 and 8.

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 18:29
          -1

          Tucson or Sportage then

        • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 18:32
          +1

          Right, so they need space. Do you think you'll use 7 seats (ie if any of them have friends getting transported or will 5 make do?)? How tall are you all?

          I'd definitely suggest looking 2nd hand, and something like a Commodore/Falcon offers a very large back seat, roomy enough for 3 growing kids.

          If you need an SUV with a big back seat for the 3 kids, Territory offers the biggest that I've seen, plenty of room for 3 across.

          Entirely depends how often you have the whole family in the car, and if it's a car used for holidays etc.

        • King Tightarse on 16/03/2016 - 18:32
          +1

          @oscargamer:
          Latest Sportage is surprisingly good. Kia have come a long way.

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 18:36
          -4

          @Spackbace:

          IMO - do not touch a Falcon or Comm. The resale will be zero in a number of years. They are plummeting in value.

          As for the Territory, as spackbace says, heaps of room. Forgets to mention their awful ride and horrific fuel consumption.

        • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 18:45
          +1

          @oscargamer:

          IMO - do not touch a Falcon or Comm. The resale will be zero in a number of years. They are plummeting in value.

          I'm suggesting a used car, as it's the only way OP will get 1 under $30k. Main chunk of depreciation has already come off (case in point, sold a 2014 SV6 today for $25,490, which is about $41k brand new).
          They don't plummet and there's always a market for it, especially as these are only being made for about another year, and there's no other family size sedan/wagons taking their place

          Forgets to mention their awful ride and horrific fuel consumption.

          If you want a family size SUV, you need to deal with 10-15L/100km real world fuel economy. It's part of it.

          As to the ride, it beats the pants off anything else I've driven in that segment and price.

          oscar, you seem very opinionated. Tell us, what do you drive?

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 19:16

          @Spackbace:

          Own an SP25 and Forester (real world fuel of 9.2)

          At work, drive SS's, Falcon turbo, Territory and Omega.

          Territory diesel uses about 11-14L. But of course that's the diesel. OP can't afford that. Petrol usage higher, nearer 15. And they handle badly. Maybe you got lucky…?

          What about you?

        • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 19:21

          @oscargamer:

          Bought the Mrs a petrol Territory at trade value. Needed room for 2 kids under 4yo, fits their car seats well, 6spd box and I6 engine are proven. Knew it would drink fuel but that was a secondary thought to reliability and practicality.

          Me, everything and anything that comes through the yard.

          In terms of SUVs, I don't notice the Territory handling any different, but ours is the AWD model

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 19:24

          @Spackbace:

          so……..which of the original 3 would you RECOMMEND

          not which is the best of the 3, which would you actually say, "this is a good car"?

        • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 19:33

          @oscargamer:

          Don't know the Jeep or the Mitsubishi enough to recommend either of them, so I can't choose a recommendation out of those 3. I've shown proper alternative models that a) appear to fit the OP's intended usage, and b) fit the budget.

          I can't bad-mouth cars I'm not 100% familiar with, nor can I recommend 1 particular car out of a list, when I'm not familiar with the others it's compared against.

          Doing this for a job means I'm less likely to put 1 particular car on a pedestal and put the others down.

          Only OP knows which car had the desired features for them, different people prefer different things. I could point out the bad things on a $67k Caprice, a $50k GT, a $45k WRX STi, right down to a $12k Celerio. To some people, these are their dream cars and wouldn't see a negative thing about them. To me, they might not have enough legroom, lousy GPS, etc etc.

          which of the original 3 would you RECOMMEND

          So, TL;DR - I can't recommend the OP a particular car without knowing more about them.

          That's my answer.

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 19:38

          @Spackbace:

          ok

          do you have an opinion about JD Power's surveys (or similar) or John Cadogan or other independent motoring people, or do you have to experience a car for yourself to have an opinion?

        • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 19:40
          +2

          @oscargamer:

          do you have to experience a car for yourself to have an opinion?

          Bingo.

          By all means, you can have an opinion on looks, but IMO you can't say car 'a' is better than car 'b', for example, without driving both.

          It's like saying Cadbury chocolate is better than Nestle chocolate, without ever having tasted Nestle. Sure, it's an opinion, but it's an amazingly biased and unfounded opinion.

          As to 'independent' motoring journo's, there's always some degree of bias, it's something they can't get away from. Hell, look at the Top Gear guys, they have their own likes and biases. Hammond likes Porsche, no matter how similar they are, his love for the car and brand puts a bias on his opinion.

          It's then using that biased opinion to recommend something, or recommend not to get something, that IMO is just not on.

        • oscargamer on 16/03/2016 - 19:50

          @Spackbace:

          ok again

          edited - as you just changed your reply

          so your opinion (cos you've driven one particular Daewoo) is better than Hamster's, because he hasn't driven that Daewoo? or would he be safe to say "look elsewhere"

          aren't opinions biased by definition? they are subjective, not objective. but reliability surveys (by JD Power) etc…. can clearly demonstrate that Jeeps (for example) have poorer reliability than Mazdas. or am i wrong? and by me saying "I wouldn't buy a Jeep cos it's unreliable" isn't my opinion, it's fact. And yes, I have owned a Jeep and the only good thing about it was the VW diesel engine !! yes one of those engines !

        • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 20:12
          +2

          @oscargamer:

          Really to summarise your argument is just to say that in any form of purchase, research is key. I would never just blindly follow someone's opinion, or rule out someone else's, without making up my own mind. Sure, people can be influenced by what they read, or what others say, but it's up to them to work it out for themselves.

          The worst part about the internet, and forums, is people can be very vocal of their opinions, and dismissive of others, and it's up to the individual to work it out for themselves. If they base a purchase off what 1 or 2 people have said, then it might not be the right purchase for them.

          And again, reliability surveys, motoring journos, review sites, are all pieces of information you can read to find out information, but it's up to you to decide on your own, and do your own research to decide if it's information or misinformation. Reliability surveys - summarise a brand in general. Every brand has lemons or poor performers, none shine in every category. Journos and review sites can be filled with biased opinions that don't truly reflect the entire group.

          I would never encourage someone to buy a particular car, or rule another one out, without putting together an argument as to why I feel that way. Then it's up to the other person whether they take what I have to say on board, or rule it out completely.

          Check my replies on this Automotive forum and you'll see what I mean. I believe I normally try to find out a customer's needs/wants before directing them towards certain models.

          It helps me sleep at night :)

        • ozeebee on 16/03/2016 - 23:13

          @Spackbace:

          Really like the current spec Commodores. They drive really well too!

          Just can't get over the taxi spec interiors. If that's ok with the OP, then it's probably best value option. Just don't get anything Daewoo please!

        • spackbace on 16/03/2016 - 23:22

          @ozeebee:

          Taxi spec on the VF? Surprised you see it that way!

        • ozeebee on 16/03/2016 - 23:26
          +1

          @Spackbace:

          It's probably mostly me. I also see some Lexus models as tarted up Toyota's. And I have a strong dislike for anything Toyota.. haha.

          But like I said, the Commodore is a great car and a good option the OP should take seriously.

        • captobvious on 17/03/2016 - 01:14
          +2

          @oscargamer: huh? territory handles pretty damn good for a large SUV. Try driving a landcruiser and you will know all about "bad" handling.

    • Abaddon on 17/03/2016 - 11:03

      I think that's good thinking. You'll never be getting the best value for money with a brand new car.

      What is your reasoning on it having to be new? Is it that you really want the warranty so you aren't spending more in the next few years?

      When you think about depreciation and the cost of servicing to maintain your new car warranty, my opinion is that you are always better off buying a better car that is a few years old.

      Unless you are chasing that new car feeling (new plastic box with the cheaper options).

  • taser on 16/03/2016 - 18:57
    +1

    I own a Cherokee (limited Diesel) and Its the best car I have had so far, the 9 speed auto is super smooth to drive. But saying that I would not buy the sport version its expensive for what you get. I bought the Jeep to replace a Outlander as did not like the look of the new outlander.

  • Ryanek on 16/03/2016 - 19:01
    +4

    Wow if those are your three options, I don't think you've researched hard enough. Go Mazda or Hyundai.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2016 - 19:24
    +1

    2wd SUV? Perhaps the lamest thing in the world. Buy a wagon or a minivan.

    • moo on 16/03/2016 - 20:23

      2WD typically has better fuel consumption than 4WD or AWD counterparts. For suburban driving, I'd imagine a 2WD is adequate no reason why it can't be a SUV? Comes down to personal taste and preference. Keen to hear your thoughts on what is driving your perception that it is lame?

      • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2016 - 21:22
        +2

        The fuel savings would be negligible, and you lose a tonne of passive safety by losing awd. Even worse, these cars are designed from the outset to be awd, so when you take away two drive wheels, you have dynamic problems. This is particularly evident with 2wd fwd SUVS, which understeer like crazy in a dangerous way. The whole point of an SUV is to have some semblance of awd traction for imperfect conditions. If you get a 2wd one, you are essentially buying the car for image only, which is even worse, as a minivan will have better fuel economy, more room, and is often cheaper. Its an image thing pure and simple. But the really scary thing is that none of the half decent SUVs or 4wds actually come in a 2wd version (only the really crappy ones), with possible exception of the BMW X5.

    • PVA on 16/03/2016 - 20:44

      some people just like the vehicle to be a bit higher than normal though.

      • captobvious on 16/03/2016 - 23:57
        +2

        sit on a cushion

    • Ryanek on 17/03/2016 - 08:52

      SUV's have the bonus of riding high and with it comes advantages. I'm guessing you don't have kids but you'll soon realise it's easier to take a baby in and out of a car that is hip height.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2016 - 11:05
        +1

        I don't have a problem with SUVs, I have a problem with 2wd SUVs. Especially fwd 2wd SUVs.

        • spackbace on 17/03/2016 - 11:13
          +1

          They have their place. Not many look at a Commodore wagon (for example) compared to the SUV market, yet the wagon offers the same usable space, if not more so compared to some of the SUVs. But they all have their advantages and disadvantages

        • Ryanek on 17/03/2016 - 13:55

          But if you're buying an SUV for its practicality and not its off road ability why does it matter if its 2wd?

        • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2016 - 16:38

          @Ryanek: see above or do you want me to cut and paste?

        • Ryanek on 18/03/2016 - 10:03
          +1

          @thorton82: Seriously, your average SUV driver is using it for grocery and school runs, not running the Dakar rally. The advancements in technology mean 2WD drives have their place, and the sale numbers prove it.

  • zeomega on 16/03/2016 - 21:37
    +1

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/04/cars-you-d-b…

    I wouldn't touch any of the 3 personally. I drive the craptiva and outlander for work vehicles amongst a few others. Hate driving them.

    Look @ Mazda, hyundai, kia

    • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2016 - 17:16
      -3

      Lol suggesting a Korean car.

  • dookun on 16/03/2016 - 22:11
    +5

    Im surprised no one suggested nissan x-trail, its roomy, got AC vent for rear passenger (i'm surprised how many suv do not have this), they are also doing a promotion atm just look it up.
    You can get one drive away for under 30k (manual though).
    Im sure if you use your ozbargaining skill you could get the auto close to 30k
    I dont work for nissan, like OP im also looking at buying one atm.
    Gotta love the choice of list though, it's like OP picked a car from different countries.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2016 - 23:38

      Agreed I almost bought one of these it's a heck of a lot of car for the money. The features on base ST aren't shabby, the cloth trim is first rate with a velour type feel and the analogue and digital instruments are very clear and easy to read. Very spacious as well. I was offered $31k da on last year's auto

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