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Free CSB + Apologetics Study Bible for Students (Normally $39.98) @ Logos

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Free CSB + Apologetics Study Bible for Students (Normally $39.98) @ Logos
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Lrix86 on 12/06/2020 - 22:02 logos.com (2896 clicks)
Last edited 13/06/2020 - 00:25 by 2 other users

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closed Comments

            • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 14:37
              -2

              @bchliu: You have arguments that even several philosophers agree. People can listen to it. Or listen to idiots on ozbargain with no training in philosophy. Everyone is free to do what they want. :)

              I choose not to listen to idiots but would consider the opinion of experts.

              • bchliu on 13/06/2020 - 14:42
                +3

                @gto21: Lol. That in itself is a fallacy because you are only wanting to listen to those who you "think" is right according to your belief. Logic is mathematical and can be proven time and time again using the same methods. The philosophers you are referring to have constantly agreed that God is always the exception and anything that can't be explained is God - hence why they cannot see errors in their logic (eg. Pascal's wager).

                • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 14:53
                  -4

                  @bchliu: Ok, I'm going to have a lesson on logical fallacy by another expert on a bargain. But ignore several philosophers.

                  Are your logic is flawed. Since you have atheist and agnostic who convert to theism.

                  You even have atheist/agnostic scientist and philosophers who agree on those links.

                  No one is arguing for "God of the gaps" you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

          • HelloNorfolkIsland on 13/06/2020 - 14:55

            @gto21:

            The Moral Argument

            Can you tell me where it says in the bible that raping litle kids and slavery are wrong ?

            Those exact words.

            • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 15:20
              +1

              @HelloNorfolkIsland: If you want the bible to use your exact word you should be born a few thousand years before it was written. And suggest it to the inspired authors. Exact same words is a silly argument.

              You realise slavery and rape or not is not a counter-argument for the moral argument. It will not prove theism does not have a standard of morality. Both ways atheism does not have a standard of morality. I'm not arguing for rape or slavery, so don't waste your time misrepresenting what I wrote. You should at least try to watch the video instead of trying to have a guess what it means.

              By the way, the bible was not written in English. So no one can give you in those exact same words. The bible predates the English language. The exact same word your asking did not even exist.

          • Jolakot on 13/06/2020 - 15:18

            @gto21: You seem like you know what you're talking about, maybe you can help me with something I've been struggling with for years.

            The ontological argument, the moral argument, the fine-tuning argument, Kalam's cosmological argument etc are used by the apologists of almost every religion, Kalam himself was an Islamic scholar. I've even seen it turned into absurdity with Flying Spaghetti Monster apologists using the same arguments.

            Almost every major religion has strict punishments for rejecting it; Hell in Christianity, Gehinnom in Judaism, Jahannam in Islam, Naraka in Hinduism etc. Most have lesser punishments for not accepting them (purgatory, a short time in Gehinnom to purify etc), but require you to reject all others.

            If I can only pick one, and none will admit to being the 'wrong' religion, then by all odds the safest option is to not choose isn't it? Otherwise it's just gambling with eternal torment, when a guaranteed temporary punishment doesn't risk anything.

            • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 15:30
              +1

              @Jolakot: I don't care you been struggling for years. Not my problem.

              Ofc it will be used by several other religion. They are arguments for theism, not Christianity. It makes sense you will see other people from other faith use the same argument for prove theism. They are also theist, heelllooo? 😆

              This is a refutation for the stupidity of flying spaghetti monsters. I hope you did not struggle for years with a spaghetti monster 👹. https://youtu.be/NqBa8b5BIqU

    • dm01 on 13/06/2020 - 09:07
      +1

      I guess it depends very much on what your experience of Christianity or other religions has been.

      For those who've seen or experienced its destructive effects close up, not saying anything can feel like complicity.

    • RetroMetro on 13/06/2020 - 11:52
      -1

      Respect there. Even if you don't agree with a Religion the best you can do is not say anything. That demonstrates maturity and a respectful perspective

      • callum9999 on 13/06/2020 - 17:41
        +1

        Utter rubbish. It's not REMOTELY immature to challenge vile doctrine that is directly responsible for incomprehensible levels of pain and suffering. And how on Earth can being silent demonstrate any kind of "perspective"?

        You're incredibly naïve.

        • RetroMetro on 14/06/2020 - 00:11

          Ahaha. Yeah let me rephrase myself if you gonna be negative then don't say anything. You can challenge as long as you don't be a dick about it.

    • callum9999 on 13/06/2020 - 17:37
      +1

      You want a medal?

      Christianity, like most of the organised religions, is directly responsible for vast amounts of pain and suffering. It absolutely needs to be ridiculed.

  • stefanko on 12/06/2020 - 22:35
    -1

    is this allowed here? :(

    • ash2000 on 12/06/2020 - 22:42
      +6

      Sadly, yes.

      I'd sooner see all deals relating to any religion banned. They are always decisive.

      • Arthur Dunger on 12/06/2020 - 22:45
        +27

        They are always decisive.

        Which religion did you decide to go with?

        • ash2000 on 12/06/2020 - 22:48
          +9

          Well spotted!

          "divisive"

          • lew380 on 13/06/2020 - 10:15
            +3

            @ash2000: So you would declare atheism the only allowed religion in OZ bargain? And persecute and harass all others with hatred? That's your solution to a problem that you perceive?

            • callum9999 on 13/06/2020 - 17:41
              +1

              @lew380: Atheism isn't a religion…

              • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 17:56
                +1

                @callum9999: Atheist even have their own church.

                • callum9999 on 13/06/2020 - 18:03
                  +2

                  @gto21: I don't care. By definition, atheism is NOT a religion. That is not up for debate - argue with the dictionary if you want to!

                  • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 18:12
                    +2

                    @callum9999: I actually like the definition in the dictionary.

                    a•the•ist ►
                    n. One who denies the existence of God, or of a supreme intelligent being.

                    It's a claim (probably with no argument for it). In other words, it's a belief system.

                    However, many atheists don't like the definition in the dictionary.

                    Some of the most knowledgeable atheists will twist the meaning of the word so that they don't have to defend this belief system. Watch the video.

                    https://youtu.be/XcuSMQVq5dM

                    We, theist, we want you to use the proper definition. We love it when you use it. Often it's the atheist who taps dance since they know their religion is flawed.

                    • callum9999 on 13/06/2020 - 18:27
                      +2

                      @gto21: I know you're trying to make yourself sound smart, but you're failing dismally.

                      Atheism is the lack of a belief in a God. PERIOD.

                      I think you're probably getting confused because there are many atheists, like myself, who find the God as described by the Christian Bible so utterly nonsensical that I can't comprehend how such a contradictory being could possibly exist. That would liekly make me look like an agnostic to you, but as I don't accept the notion that I can know for sure that there's no form of God out there, I'm not agnostic.

                      Edit: You completely changed your post after I replied. I can't find that definition you give anywhere, but regardless, you're talking nonsense so it is ultimately irrelevant.

                      • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 19:08
                        -2

                        @callum9999: According to the dictionary, atheism can mean disbelief in God. Even if you can't see what I post. It's on every search engine.

                        You're asking others to find the meaning while you did not even know.

                        We are talking about atheism. Now you also mention Christianity. Even if Christianity is false it does not prove atheism is true. For instance, theism can still be true even if Christianity is false. You want to change the goalpost after embarrassing yourself. Your own advice. You can argue with the dictionary If you want. And the video has several sources for the definition. It even goes back to the original language.

                        • callum9999 on 13/06/2020 - 19:15
                          +2

                          @gto21: The definition you posted didn't get a single result on Google. Where did you get it from? A YouTube video? You finding an obscure definition of the word doesn't change its common meaning - the belief that there is no God isn't, nor ever has been, a requirement of atheism.

                          READ THE WORDS I WRITE. Not only did I not move any goalposts, I said EXACTLY the same as you did - that I'm not agnostic because theism can be true while Christianity is false… Now who's embarrassing themselves.

                          • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 19:36

                            @callum9999: It's on the first page of google as well. Why are you lying? Oxford Britannica and so on. They all say it can mean disbelief/denial. You're embarrassing yourself not me.

                            I did not write Christianity is false. I wrote even IF it's false it does not prove theism to be false and atheism true.

                            You don't understand terms like atheism, agnosticism and theism.

                            And you're lying a few times. Scripture is clear don't waste time on certain individual.

                            Matthew 7:6

                    • tanabe88gg on 19/06/2020 - 09:07

                      @gto21: There are non-religious belief systems out there. You can probably already name a few if you tried.

                      Atheism is a single position on a single issue (The belief in god). Where you go from there is up to you. Grouping them all into a single group is flat out ignorance. Buddhism is an atheistic religion for example.

                      • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 10:09

                        @tanabe88gg: How can someone be ignorant when I'm quoting the dictionary. If you don't understand the point. Don't get involved or you will prove your the ignorant.

                        What I wrote about atheism can you find it in the dictionary?

                        You just wrote don't group all atheist in a group. Yet when I mention one definition. For some reason, you get triggered with that definition. Follow your own advice, don't group all of them in one group. And accept it can mean denial/disbelief.

                        Please answer my question. You're going to embarrass yourself.

                        • tanabe88gg on 19/06/2020 - 11:42

                          @gto21: Oh, I thought you said

                          since they (atheists) know their religion is flawed

                          Am I incorrect in interpreting, in the context of the rest of your comments, that you think atheism is a religion, and by extension that you (ignorantly) think that the average Buddhist shares a religion with the likes of Dawkins? You have to be kidding.

                          Also, dictionaries describe the usage of words, they don't define them. By using your own definition of a term, instead of the one intended by the person making the argument, you are doing nothing but building a strawman. Just like you are doing in this conversation.

                          If you don't believe me, think of the usage of the word 'Good' as used in Genesis.

                          • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 12:00

                            @tanabe88gg: "since they (atheists) know their religion is flawed"

                            And yet you mentioned that Buddhism is an atheistic religion.

                            Thank you for proving my point. Anything else you want to add to bury yourself?

                          • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 12:26

                            @tanabe88gg: I also talk about theist in general. Anyone using their brain won't assume I'm saying Muslims, Christians, pagans and so on share the same religion.

                            So please stop using a strawman. You think you have a point but you don't.

                            So don't embarrass yourself.

                            • tanabe88gg on 19/06/2020 - 12:47

                              @gto21: Oh I thought you were ignorantly implying @lew380 was correct in their claim that atheism was a religion in itself. Especially after you said

                              Atheist even have their own church.

                              I guess I am the ignorant one by assuming this, and not realizing that you really only thought "some atheists have built a church and also some are religious"

                              I get trolled every time I swear.

                              • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 13:20

                                @tanabe88gg: Even if I say it's a religion that does not imply they are all the same. What's your point?

                                I don't believe all form of agnosticism is a religion.

                                • tanabe88gg on 19/06/2020 - 14:07

                                  @gto21: So to clarify, you are not claiming that atheism is a religion.

                                  Have you looked up religion in that dictionary that you hold above all others, by the way?

                                  • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 16:19

                                    @tanabe88gg: Explain how calling atheism a religion implies that all atheist are the same. Come on hurry up stop tap dancing just answer the question.

                                  • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 16:27

                                    @tanabe88gg: Because what I can find in the dictionary I can call it a religion.

                                    Stephen Prothero of Boston University:

                                    Atheism is a religion of sorts, or can be. Many atheists are quite religious, holding their views about God with the conviction of zealots and evangelizing with verve … It stands at the center of their lives, defining who they are, how they think, and with whom they associate. The question of God is never far from their minds.

                                  • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 17:01

                                    @tanabe88gg: "A useful definition was offered by sociologist Émile Durkheim, who defined religion as ‘a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things’. Now before atheists get too antsy, Durkheim was clear that ‘sacred things’ did not necessarily have to be supernatural beings such as gods, but could be anything held dear to the person including ideas or values. It’s really not difficult to see how atheism, with its fetishization of science and human reason fits this definition quite nicely." - Andy Bannister

                                  • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 17:47

                                    @tanabe88gg: At the end of the day. I don't really care what you have to say.

                                    • tanabe88gg on 19/06/2020 - 18:57

                                      @gto21: That's a lot of replies for someone who doesn't care what I say.

                                      So tell me, by Andy Bannister's definition, is football in Europe also a religion? Because if that is what you think, you've basically watered your definition down to the almost meaningless 'a thing that some people hold dearly'. Is 'the progressive left' also a religion? Is gardening a religion too?

                                      Next, are you going to say that having faith in science is similar to having faith in god?

                                      • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 19:07

                                        @tanabe88gg: Your opinion does not matter to me. Do you understand?

                                        I did reply, and then I start to wonder why do I care what a nobody is saying.

                                        To be honest, no offence but your opinion has no value to me.

                                        But thank you sharing 😂.

                                        • tanabe88gg on 19/06/2020 - 20:42

                                          @gto21: Should I mark this down as another internet argument won, then? bless you x

                                          Edit: /Tips fedora

                                      • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 20:47

                                        @tanabe88gg: If you want to know if football is a religion. Listen to what some footballers have to say.

                                        Diego Maradona (who once confused his own hand with God’s) that “football isn’t a game, nor a sport; it’s a religion” is shared, like an article of faith, by Pele, his arch rival for the title of the greatest player of all time. “Football is like a religion to me,” Pele once confessed, “I worship the ball and treat it like a god”.

                                        Your example makes me laugh. It's for your own benefit if I ignore you instead of embarrassing you.

                                        You should get this t-shirt in memory of your embarrassment. 😂

                                        http://wheresfran.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/FootballRel…

                                        • tanabe88gg on 19/06/2020 - 22:44

                                          @gto21: Still here?

                                          Well, I suppose if that is how you want to define religion, than yes, atheism is a religion.

                                          And yes, I do feel embarrassed, if by embarrassment you mean 'publicly playing chicken against a car of which the hand brake has been left off'. Nice shirt too by the way. Might as well add this one to my collection to while I'm at it. https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1eLQzc8mWBuNkSndVq6AsApXaA.jpg

                                          So tell me, now that you've proved that football is a religion, should I call ScoMo and ask him to let me sack kids who are bad at football to his religious discrimination bill?

                                          • gto21 on 19/06/2020 - 23:19

                                            @tanabe88gg: Even the way you write I notice you feel humiliated by your silly statement. Let it go it keep getting worst for you.

                                            I was merciful to you by not addressing your "point". But that what happened when you think your smart. I had to humble you lol.

                                            As Wann and collaborators note, various scholars discuss sport in terms of "natural religion," "humanistic religion," and "primitive polytheism" pointing out that "spectators worship other human beings, their achievements, and the groups to which they belong." And that sports stadia and arenas resemble "cathedrals where followers gather to worship their heroes and pray for their successes." [Wann, et al., 2001, p. 200]

                                            • tanabe88gg on 20/06/2020 - 12:08

                                              @gto21: I do feel silly for not simply asking you what you meant by religion, especially since it is so similar to what I was accusing you of for using your own definition of atheism.

                                              How was I to know you would pull quotes from psychological papers that claim that football is "primitive polytheism". Presumably this means that "followers" of the "religion of football" consider the football players themselves to be deities?

                                              Oh except if Wann, et al. were really just saying in their paper is that football was LIKE a religion, because it can have a similar effect on followers, not that it IS one.

                                              Also, the irony of someone claiming to be Christian having the pride to attempt to humble another person is not lost on me. It's even more humorous given your previous comments about how little you cared what I thought.

                                              So tell me, what is your definition of religion? And should anyone take it seriously when using it to create laws, for example? Is this another flawed assumption on my part, that you actually take reality seriously?

                                              • gto21 on 20/06/2020 - 12:58

                                                @tanabe88gg: It seems your mixing the author of the article, Wann and the scholars. It's ok you're a bit slow to understand. When Wann quotes the scholars.

                                                Do scholars use the term "natural religion," "humanistic religion," and "primitive polytheism"?

                                                Or do they say "like natural religion," "like humanistic religion," and "like primitive polytheism"?

                                                I'm sure you're a polytheist. Tell us the teams and footballers you support? 😂

                                              • gto21 on 20/06/2020 - 13:27

                                                @tanabe88gg: I like when someone came to attack. Calling others ignorant. And when you bury their arguments. Suddenly Christians should not be pride. When you humiliate yourself you want the Christian to be more Christian. I thought the attack should have the opposite effect. 😂 This is an indication of how bad the conversation is going for you.

                                                • tanabe88gg on 20/06/2020 - 21:49

                                                  @gto21: Slow? Oh wow!

                                                  How about you read what I actually said, instead of what you assume I meant. If you'd actually read beyond the first result in google, you'd realise that Wann, et al. (take careful note here that I said Wann, et al., not "scholars") only COMPARES sport to religion, and does not make the jump to say that it IS religion. You know what they say about what happens when you ASSUME.

                                                  The fact that this book only compares sport to religion only goes to show how fringe a view it is to actually believe that sport IS a religion. I'm kinda flabbergasted that you picked this to back up your claim. Pretty sure this is the pride your bible was warning you about.

                                                  Again I feel stupid. I feel like I have been giving your arguments more rigor than they actually deserve. Your response is to try and point out that the word 'Like' isn't in a sentence? Really?

                                                  And about the scholars? Moot point. You probably consider yourself a scholar by the sound of your tone lol. And look what you've written.

                                                • tanabe88gg on 20/06/2020 - 22:01

                                                  @gto21: Anyway, lets bring it back to where we started, claming that atheism is a religiont. This is a fringe idea. As you can tell by noting that the only people banging on about it are religious apologists.

                                                  And atheists who are accused of acting like they are part of a dogmatic cult (not the Buddhist ones mind you, who are also still the majority btw, I mean the angry ones on youtube) could probably do with a good grilling from a christian apologist to remind them why they wanted to share their ideas in the first place.

                                                  • gto21 on 20/06/2020 - 23:23

                                                    @tanabe88gg: You can misquote the scholars all you want. It won't help you look better but worst.

                                                    You asked if football is a religion. I gave two world-class footballers and scholars. Now let see what the fans say about their football club. If you don't agree feel free to contact them. Thousands of people make that claim.

                                                    https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6172/6132709305_56bf8fceb8.jpg

                                                    How many different ways can I embarrass you? I used footballers, scholars and fans.

                                                    My job is done here. If you want to keep humiliating yourself. I have more quotes in stock for you. It's your lucky day. ☺

                                                    • tanabe88gg on 22/06/2020 - 10:10

                                                      @gto21: You made a hack job of the Wann, et al. quote and you're accusing me of misquoting scholars?

                                                      Honestly, you have done nothing but group together a bunch of 'misquotes' and metaphors. It is even more telling that you keep ignoring the actual point of this conversation and instead choose to focus on tacky t-shirts. Do you honestly think the people who are holding the manchester united sign in your photo write 'FOOTBALL' or 'MANCHESTER UNITED' for their religion on their census? I honestly think the nuance of this argument is lost on you.

                                                      This really begs the question, why do you want every group of enthusiastic followers to be classed as a religion? I bet it's because you want to shoehorn your 'worldview' onto anything you can. Just like the average wacko does when they liken confidence in the scientific method to 'faith' in the resurrection for example.

                                                      If you're so confident of my utter humiliation, why don't you put your argument forth on wikipedia.

                                                      Right here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#New_religious_movemen…

                                                      You can even link your tshirt and Wann, et al quote as sources. Since you are so fixated on humiliation, make sure you screenshot the responses you get from the other wiki editors. You can share them among your congregation too once you utterly humiliate them as well.

                                                      God damn fundies I swear….

                                                    • tanabe88gg on 22/06/2020 - 10:17

                                                      @gto21: And in case the point about the metaphor is lost on you, here's a link to a video of Manchester United fans praying to their god for their team's success. It's only 1:24 long, so it might slip by you, but can you identify what religion the people in this video belong to? Spoilers: it's not football.

                                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iabch6q4IUA

                                                      • gto21 on 22/06/2020 - 11:30

                                                        @tanabe88gg: Yeah, sure they are all metaphors and misquote. While I'm the one quoting them. While you start to interpret everything. What he meant is it's LIKE a religion. It's actually a metaphor. It's a misquote lol.

                                                        All I'm doing is quote several people exactly how they say it. Without me giving my interpretation. Letting the text speak for themselves.

                                                        Keep up with your mental gymnastic.

                                                        Do you have no shame? You must be a young kid. Bring your parents for a conversation.

                                                      • gto21 on 22/06/2020 - 11:46

                                                        @tanabe88gg: Actually your not accusing me of misquoting them. But the journalist and psychologist.

                                                        I guess everyone misunderstood the real meaning expect for you.

                                                        • tanabe88gg on 15/07/2020 - 20:23

                                                          @gto21: You kept going hey? And hit rock bottom and resorted to the old ad hominem? Pretty laughable tbh. I'm still waiting on that wikipedia update btw. With your quote as the source. What a laugh lol.

                                                          • gto21 on 16/07/2020 - 16:00

                                                            @tanabe88gg: Don't even know what you're talking about after so many weeks I don't even remember you or what you're on about. But it clearly had an impact on you for you to come back after so long. You are correct it's funny.

                                                            I said to a few people they are not important. Do you really think I remember the messages a random person sent a few weeks ago?

                                                            But don't waste my time repeating it. My guess it will be a waste of time reading your message again.

      • Loki556 on 12/06/2020 - 22:45
        +9

        You suggest division is best addressed by banning anything that might upset someone?

        How strange is it to see these sorts of ideas side by side with mega-popular Faulty Towers deals.

        • ash2000 on 12/06/2020 - 22:47
          +2

          Nah, just religion and politics.

          • Loki556 on 12/06/2020 - 22:50
            +3

            @ash2000: Might as well ban life itself. At the end of the day, everything is about search for meaning/right way, which inevitably ends in politics first and the philosophy/religion later.

            • ash2000 on 13/06/2020 - 10:35
              +5

              @Loki556: Good heavens no, I gave up the search for meaning eons ago in favour on unbridled consumerism, hence my frequent visitation to this site.

            • LinkMonkey on 13/06/2020 - 13:38

              @Loki556: I just made a coffee and wasted nearly 30 seconds of my life contemplating milk/no milk.

              "At the end of the day, everything is about search for meaning/right way" - Agreed
              "which inevitably ends in politics first and the philosophy/religion later" - Disagree

              Pick one, move on. If you have time to contemplate meaning/religion you are wasting your life and clearly not doing the best you could in service to mankind.

      • ak47wong on 12/06/2020 - 22:52
        +10

        If the comments were actually about the deal itself, which is what the comments are supposed to be about, these posts wouldn't be divisive.

      • John on 13/06/2020 - 00:22
        +25

        Christianity if practiced the way Jesus has taught, should be the most uniting teaching in the world. Regardless whether you believe he is God or not.

        The western culture you are benefiting from today are build upon Christ teaching. Jesus fought for woman rights, fought against racism, fought for children, show us how to love one another, and more.

        All the heart wrenching display of "christians" around the world that are divisive and even criminal are not because of what Jesus has taught. Its simply human and their sinful nature. They can take anything good and turn it bad/evil. In extreme cases, criminal even.

        You can take away a person's religion and they will be no less evil. As much as there are divisive/bad Christians, there are also divisive/bad atheist.

        • chicken lover on 13/06/2020 - 04:05
          +3

          Well said mate.

        • callum9999 on 13/06/2020 - 17:45
          +1

          I suggest you read the Bible before claiming Christianity is all puppies and rainbows…

      • bchliu on 13/06/2020 - 14:33

        Maybe do an experiment and put some Islamic deals in here and see the negative votes come in.

    • RetroMetro on 13/06/2020 - 11:56
      +1

      Yeah freedom of religion duh. What kind of question is that

  • A061 on 12/06/2020 - 22:37
    +7

    Thank you !

  • rix86 on 12/06/2020 - 22:38
    +24

    If it's not for you move on! but I know this has been a blessing in my life the last few years :)

    • AustriaBargain on 12/06/2020 - 23:24
      +13

      It's not a crime to speak your mind. This is a book is literally about Christian apologetics, so it's kinda ironic that some Christians can't handle non Christians speaking their mind about it.

      • cherrypick on 13/06/2020 - 00:36
        +15

        Come on! It's okay to speak your mind and have an open discourse but unnecessary attacks and potential hate speech is really the issue here. Besides, such comments are against the commenting guidelines https://www.ozbargain.com.au/wiki/help:commenting_guidelines
        Some deals hold more weight to certain demographic more than others. Just because you don't associate with this demographic and can't understand the benefit they gain from such deals doesn't really justify the attacks within the comments.
        If a deal doesn't apply to you just move on.

        • bchliu on 13/06/2020 - 14:34
          +1

          Does hate speech cover Christian sermons that condemn non-believers to fire and eternal damnation in Hell?

          • Telios on 13/06/2020 - 15:13

            @bchliu: Wonder if I can sin a bunch while out in the mountains and use the Hellfire for warmth?

          • haru on 13/06/2020 - 17:47
            +1

            @bchliu: Depends, is a non-believer being condemned to a place that is imaginary and make-belief to them 'hate speech'?

            Eg.

            B: I condemn you to a thousand years in Westeros!

            NB: Ok…

        • AlbyDuck on 13/06/2020 - 14:58
          -1

          Was going to compliment you on your response. This thought occurred to me though. Are we sure there's no hate speech in the material on offer? Has anyone (not Israel Folou hopefully) gone through it and is prepared to vouch for it?

      • tanastra on 13/06/2020 - 10:32
        +1

        The issues are the talks of “ Not about the actual deal “” which should be in a forum … so christians and nons should all move on to the forum to talk there

        • AustriaBargain on 13/06/2020 - 10:56
          +2

          Please, like the comments don't break out into Marvel vs DC discussions whenever the blu rays for either get posted. What's so special about Christianity, Scientology, or any other church that we aren't allowed to speak our minds about it. And imo the deal blows, it claims to contain facts but from what I read so far it seems to not contain or even seek the spirit of pursuit of facts.

          • RetroMetro on 13/06/2020 - 11:59

            @AustriaBargain: You don't always need facts to prove. For example a logical flow which is what discrete maths is all about proveing through logic.

            • AustriaBargain on 13/06/2020 - 12:14
              +1

              @RetroMetro: Mmm, just like math except apologetics starts with the answer and just says everything must add up because the arbitrarily chosen answer must be right because God must exist.

              • RetroMetro on 14/06/2020 - 00:15

                @AustriaBargain: Have you actually studied apologetics?

                They are logical arguments. I don't understand how the natural world with all its complexity came to be by chance. Now that sound illogical!

                • AustriaBargain on 14/06/2020 - 00:51
                  +1

                  @RetroMetro: I downloaded and read this one. "God must exist because God must exist" or "if you can imagine something perfect then it must exist" are not logical arguments. Not by a long shot. If we put these some people and tasked them to use their logic to manage coronavirus, we'd all be dead right now.

                  • RetroMetro on 14/06/2020 - 01:00

                    @AustriaBargain: What your answer to how the world came.to be? Also first line don't mean anything. that's like reading the topic sentence and just say it's trash. Did you have a bad experience with Christianity or something? There are so many atheists here who upvoted the deal and are actually interested.

                    • AustriaBargain on 14/06/2020 - 02:30

                      @RetroMetro: I had a bad experience with the "logic" purpoted throughout this material. It's not logic at all.

                      • RetroMetro on 14/06/2020 - 10:48

                        @AustriaBargain: I find the logic of evolution hard. It's not logic at all

                        • defecat0r on 14/06/2020 - 15:53

                          @RetroMetro:

                          I find the logic of evolution hard. It's not logic at all

                          I agree that evolution is a difficult concept to grasp. I would question why you say that you don't find it logical at all but I fear I may know the answer. If you are hearing about evolution as presented by Christians that deny it (as I have seen today in some Youtube videos linked in this post) then I agree that it certainly is presented to come across as absurd.

                          My question to you is: if you wanted to learn about orbital mechanics, would you go to a flat-earther and expect to come away with a fair and reasonable understanding?

                          If you are interested finding a fair representation of evolution, I would advise that your investigation leads you to learn from sources that accept evolution. If you want a Christian influence, a potential good place to start would be biologos.org - a Christian organization that affirms evolution. Here's a link :) https://biologos.org/common-questions/what-is-evolution

                          • RetroMetro on 14/06/2020 - 16:49

                            @defecat0r: Cheers! I think I understand the Christian perspective but just pure evolution is so unlikely. The probability doesn't ad up. But perhaps I'll look into those sources and see their perspective on it 😋

  • Rayve on 12/06/2020 - 22:40
    +35

    'Biblical Truth' - is that like 'Alternate Facts'?

    I continue to be amazed that people can suspend their reason and logic and believe this. I understand the desire for certainty and comfort but how sad that people are willing to surrender their grip on reality for a comfortable fantasy.

    • ash2000 on 12/06/2020 - 22:45
      +22

      Biblical Truth

      The very definition of an oxymoron.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/06/2020 - 23:04
      +3

      Hottest of takes here. 200+ IQ confirmed

    • AustriaBargain on 12/06/2020 - 23:25
      +1

      This is a great point. We should all be aware of fake news, but turn a blind eye to "biblical truths"? We should be watching out for each other, making sure only the true true is shared.

    • Tuukmaak on 13/06/2020 - 00:49
      +1

      We should all bow to your superior logic Mr Spock. You seem to be an authority on reality when quantum scientists are still grappling with this question. Heard of the multiverse theory or panspermia? Now that's faith!

      • AustriaBargain on 13/06/2020 - 00:57
        +2

        Mr Spock has made clear multiple times that 20th century religion was highly illogical. And I doubt quantum scientists are grappling with whether or not Christianity is real.

        • Tuukmaak on 13/06/2020 - 01:03
          +3

          Fellow Trekkie! No my point had nothing to do with verifying Christianity, it was a commentary against those who have the audacity to think they have a good grasp on reality while they themselves are limited to this (supposedly) four dimensional reality.

          • PCAviator on 13/06/2020 - 10:39
            +1

            @Tuukmaak: What benchmarks are you using to judge/comment on other's grasp of reality? Just curious.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/06/2020 - 08:58
      +6

      Lol. I'm an atheist too but not sure why you neg this.

      Makes you look like a clown imo

      • RetroMetro on 13/06/2020 - 12:01

        Yeah dude ikr. Respect there!

    • tryagain on 13/06/2020 - 11:31

      So you are amazed that people suspend reason and logic, then in the next sentence you refer to it as a fantasy. You might want to do some research on the historicity of Jesus and the definition of fantasy, or be amazed at yourself ;)

    • ozhunter on 14/06/2020 - 01:58

      Aren't atheists comforted by their belief that God doesn't exist? They set their own moral standard. Aren't they comforted in the fact that they could do any 'evil' thing and only have to worry about it if they are caught by the law?

    • gto21 on 14/06/2020 - 08:52

      From my personal experience, "surrender their grip on reality for a comfortable fantasy." This is the farthest from the truth. I'm around Christians and new converts. I'm yet to meet one. It's nonsense spread by unbelievers to make believe it's common.

      It's what unbelievers believe about Christians. But it's not what the vast majority of Christians believe.

      It's actually sad to see someone misrepresent the vast majority of Christian.

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