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Free CSB + Apologetics Study Bible for Students (Normally $39.98) @ Logos

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Free CSB + Apologetics Study Bible for Students (Normally $39.98) @ Logos
Go to Deal
Lrix86 on 12/06/2020 - 22:02 logos.com (2896 clicks)
Last edited 13/06/2020 - 00:25 by 2 other users

Logos is the best Bible study software!

Logos empowers anybody with a hunger for God to find and share life-changing biblical truth.

You get a digital library of trusted titles—at a fraction of the print price.
You save time with study tools that look stuff up for you.
You don’t have to be a scholar to use it—even though scholars love it!

CSB + Apologetics Study Bible for Students was $39 now free
Add a Second Book for $0.99 - The New Testament: Its Background and Message
Add a Third Book for $1.99 - Old Testament Survey, 2nd ed.
Add a Fourth Book for $2.99 - Jesus in Trinitarian Perspective: An Introductory Christology
All usually $20-40 each
Also many more freebies and deals at the moment.

In Christ,

Ricky

Books & Magazines Bible Commentary

Related Stores

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Logos Bible Study Platform

closed Comments

    • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 10:01
      +3

      Atheists and sexual abuse

      https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheists_and_sexual_abuse

      I don't think you make any sense. Should atheist also leave atheism?

      • RubenM on 13/06/2020 - 19:20

        You can't leave atheism. Atheism isn't really a thing, it's purely the absence of any religious beliefs.
        It's like the emptiness in a container, you can't tip it out.

        • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 19:46
          -3

          Look up the dictionary it can also mean denial/disbelief in God. It's can be a claim thus a belief system. So it is a thing.

          It does not make sense what your writing. You're an atheist but atheism is not really a thing lol.

          I kinda agree atheism is like an empty container. Some atheist is like an empty container can't find a brain it's empty. You can shake some atheist and nothing good come out of it. Just like an empty container. The best analogy I heard today atheism is like an empty container.

          • RubenM on 13/06/2020 - 20:02
            +1

            @gto21: facepalm

            • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 20:08

              @RubenM: You know what I do with most empty container. I throw them in the bin. I actually like your analogy that atheism is like an empty container.

              • RubenM on 13/06/2020 - 20:25

                @gto21: I'd much rather have an empty vessel than one filled with fake Kool-aid!

                • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 20:38

                  @RubenM: I don't know theist using the analogy of fake kool-aid. But I know an atheist who uses the analogy empty container for atheism 😆.

                  • RubenM on 13/06/2020 - 20:46
                    +2

                    @gto21: Just had a look at your profile, no wonder I seem to be such a thorn in your crown, sorry, side. All you've posted in the past 5 years were those crappy Credo "deals". Like 20 of them.
                    Got a bit of an agenda to push, have we?

                    • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 22:27

                      @RubenM: I like being a thorn especially when hearing stupidity like atheism is like an empty container. 😆

          • defecat0r on 13/06/2020 - 21:28
            +1

            @gto21:

            Look up the dictionary it can also mean denial/disbelief in God. It's can be a claim thus a belief system. So it is a thing.

            Atheism is commonly understood to be a lack of a belief in God or gods. When one lacks belief in the tooth-fairy, is this "a thing"? Does one have a positive belief system when they lack a belief in Santa Claus?

            • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 22:25

              @defecat0r: Here's is one definition according in the dictionary. Use any search engine you want. You will find atheism can mean denial/disbelief OR a lack of belief. So please don't waste my time if you don't know what you're talking about.

              a•the•ist ►
              n. One who denies the existence of God, or of a supreme intelligent being.

              • defecat0r on 14/06/2020 - 12:02

                @gto21: Straight from google: "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods"
                I don't see a problem with this definition or the one you presented. I simply don't see that you have addressed the example I gave regarding Santa - a lack of belief is not a positive belief system.

                • gto21 on 14/06/2020 - 20:26

                  @defecat0r: I did not write there's a problem with the definition in the dictionary.

    • FireRunner on 13/06/2020 - 14:56
      +1

      A few wayward individual do not represent the entirety of Christendom. Stop stereotyping

    • RetroMetro on 14/06/2020 - 00:44

      Boo! You wanna talk about sexual abuse there is way more outside the Church. You are stereotyping

  • funkydan2 on 13/06/2020 - 10:09
    +2

    Thanks for posting @rix86. As you probably know, Faithlife has multiple monthly free (and bargain) books - https://www.logos.com/free-book-of-the-month amongst others.

    Not surprised by all the off-topic posting on this deal…though, I am surprised you haven't got into a real religious flame war over the claim that Logos is the "Best Bible study software". It's Accordance all the way for me - Logos looks pretty, but it's just too sluggish!

    • tanastra on 13/06/2020 - 10:11

      Liked your meaningful review about logos quality .

  • tanastra on 13/06/2020 - 10:11
    +1

    I wonder why deals about this sort of subjects always draw criticism or comments that are not about the actual deals. ??? Is it going to be the same treatment if it’s offered in UDEMY or by other free Dummies ? where is the moderator to steer the “negative or positive “ back to the actual deal whether this is actually good deal or not “compared to “ officeworks or Harvey Norman !!! Velly velly interesting …

    • Rayve on 13/06/2020 - 21:09
      +4

      For me it's the same response to any fake claims - say of a cure for cancer or whatever. Making claims that are so profoundly impactful without actual evidence for those claims should never go unchallenged.

      • RetroMetro on 14/06/2020 - 00:47

        It's called apologetics for a reason. Essentially that is the proof. Which is logical thinking much like discrete maths.

  • katatonic289 on 13/06/2020 - 10:20
    +3

    Nice! Thanks for the this Ricky, this looks like a great deal.

    Working as a pastor, I don't really have access to it, but I do use Logos (Standard Gold/Reformed Bronze) and it's a solid piece of tech, and does a fantastic job assisting me in research/devotionals/sermon prep.

    To those ripping on the deal because "religion", I'd highly recommend reading the Bible for yourself. The good news of Jesus will challenge you, but it seems like you all love a challenge!

    You can find an online Bible for free at BibleGateway.com - get started reading Mark, I reckon. Choose a decent modern translation (NIV, ESV, CSB are all great) and just start reading. Even if you don't change your mind about Jesus, it'll equip you to stop making silly mistakes about what Christians believe in online discussion.

  • tanastra on 13/06/2020 - 10:36
    -1

    I started to wonder if ozbargain moderator is like the abc program Q and A’ s , let the comments rolls in …

    • PCAviator on 13/06/2020 - 10:51
      +2

      It's perfect SEO to let the comments flow.

      • tanastra on 13/06/2020 - 10:59

        Learning something new every day thru ozbargain

  • PCAviator on 13/06/2020 - 10:50

    I'm waiting up all night for Christopher Hitchens to rise from the dead (because that's obviously possible) and go to town on this ozbargain thread.

    I hope it's a quick process because I need to get to the store before the next Ozbargain deal sells out.

  • SlickMick on 13/06/2020 - 10:54
    +2

    Congratulations OP, great first post. This is the very definition of a bargain, getting something for free at a huge discount to usual price.

    Shame on the neggers - I hope you get banned.

    As for the debate, take it to the forum. This is not the place for it. I don't think there is a single comment regarding the product.
    Shame on you all.

    • tanastra on 13/06/2020 - 11:00

      Totally agreed .

    • PCAviator on 13/06/2020 - 11:10
      +3

      Well most ozbargain deal comments are based on the opinion of the features of the product in question right, as well as the deal price offered.

      I think a lot of these comments here are referencing the features and content of the product in question, and people's opinion of that content or features, so I don't think it is entirely irrelevant discussion.

      • tanastra on 13/06/2020 - 11:19
        +1

        That’s very good point . I hope those with negative reviews has actually used the product , experienced the features and etc to support the reviews or otherwise it will become Fake reviews , likewise to the positive reviewers

    • Snake 4 on 13/06/2020 - 11:12

      Pardon?

  • tanastra on 13/06/2020 - 11:07

    FYI : about Christian populations according to countries
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/most-christian-c…

  • [Deactivated] on 13/06/2020 - 11:09
    -1

    A bargain?! Oxymoron propaganda at a discounted price!

  • tmg316 on 13/06/2020 - 11:11
    +6

    Warning: this comment is actually related to the bargain. This is a good deal but I must admit, I purchased the CSB study bible on logos and I didn’t love it. It’s definitely my favourite translation but I found the notes quite clunky to use with the logos interface. This is especially disappointing given that the physical study bible is gorgeous. But it’s hard to complain about a free deal! Weird that anyone would neg a free bible - but we all have a strong vested interest in it being true/untrue - the truth makes demands of you.

    • belongsinforums on 13/06/2020 - 11:31
      -2

      free nazi propaganda is still nazi propaganda. same dealio here

    • Cousin IT on 13/06/2020 - 11:57
      +1

      I think it's because we believe that this is a site about consumerism and Religion should have it's place elsewhere, not in the bargains. I don't believe we should view Religion as a product as it's being peddled on this so called bargain. It's a personal thing that should be better served in the forum's where you look for it and can have more relaxed conversations about it. This goes for all religions and for Atheism too.

      • FireRunner on 13/06/2020 - 12:28
        +2

        It's not advertising religion as a product directly, this is a product which usually costs ~$40 but is given away free, which is undoubtedly a bargain.
        It certainly doesn't appeal to all ozbargainers but they're certainly a demands for it (just look at the number of likes)

        • dojomojo on 13/06/2020 - 18:25
          -1

          You also have to take into account the actual value of the product as well. If I gave away dog poo that I usually sell for $50, does not make it a bigger bargain.

          • FireRunner on 13/06/2020 - 18:29
            +2

            @dojomojo: Of course. Though you might not value this product, others do. It’s not worthless to everyone as you imply.

          • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 18:33
            +1

            @dojomojo: Try to post a dog poo deal. And see if you can get over 200 upvotes. It has value for at least 203 people so far. Not counting those not having an account. But my guess you will be stuck with your dog poo. Which will show your analogy is the actual dog poo.

      • SlickMick on 14/06/2020 - 12:54

        The deal is for a product. This is a consumer deal, that is clearly attractive to some people, and not others.
        Very much like laptop deals - some people are just not interested, and just move on.

        For someone not interested in acquiring the product to comment here speaks volumes.
        It seems to me that there is a God-shaped hole in every person, and some will put a lot of effort into keeping it empty.

  • 2sweetau on 13/06/2020 - 13:49
    +1

    Thank you

  • AbsX on 13/06/2020 - 14:11

    I always wanted to sign up to a deal that comes with free brainwashing included.

    • defecat0r on 13/06/2020 - 21:16

      Why do you reject the God that you know exists? Repent. You are in love with your sin.

      • AbsX on 13/06/2020 - 22:34
        +2

        There is nothing to reject if He never existed in the first place.

        I love my sin and there's stuff all you can do about it

        • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 22:54
          +1

          He might be trolling you. Since he used to downvote Christian post. Since his downvote won't make much of a difference. He's getting desperate, pretending to be a Christian. 😁🙏 He also has some other weird comments on his deal which would suggest he is trolling.

        • defecat0r on 14/06/2020 - 12:27

          Indeed, I do enjoy adopting another worldview and attempting to argue from it.
          So to continue from the position of a Calvinist presuppositionalist:

          There is nothing to reject if He never existed in the first place.

          AbsX, I am not going to take your bait and lavish you with evidences for a God that you know in your heart exists. To do so would be placing YOU, the degenerate fallen man, a man in a willing state of rebellion, in the judgement seat over the Almighty. Who are YOU to sit in judgement over the Creator?

          The Word of God, spoken from the very lips of Paul the Apostle is clear in Romans chapter 1 when God says: For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. From this scripture we can know with certainty that all men have a knowledge of God. When you deny this knowledge, you simply suppress the truth in your unrighteousness (Romans 1:18).

          I love my sin and there's stuff all you can do about it

          Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God"…
          As we all know, the word 'fool' here translates also to "morally deficient". Your words speak truth in regards to your state of reprobation.

          Get down on your knees and repent! Beg the Lord that you know exists that he might bestow his grace undeserving upon you and have mercy upon your soul lest you be gathered up on the last days and cast into the fire that will not be quenched.

          (PS. this isn't lunacy, people really do argue like this)

          • AbsX on 14/06/2020 - 15:14

            @defecat0r: Haha

            If these people have to rely on 3000 year old passages to make their point, guess it's a lost cause arguing to begin with.

          • HelloNorfolkIsland on 17/06/2020 - 15:03

            @defecat0r:

            Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God"…

            I guess that makes it true, i mean anyone can say that right ?

            The Koran says similar things about Allah.

            The bible is full of unscientific nonsense
            - like a flat earth
            - belief in the zodiac
            - evil spirits cause sickness
            = sickness = demon possession and countless more.
            - inferiority of women
            - racism, superiority of gods chosen people.

            Feel free to ask for bible quotations they are easy to find on your own.

            • defecat0r on 17/06/2020 - 16:08
              +1

              @HelloNorfolkIsland: You guess (use reason) that makes it true?

              What is your foundation for truth? What is your foundation for reason or the Laws of Logic upon which reason is based?
              Only the Triune God provides the basis for rationality and the preconditions for intelligibility. God IS Truth. The laws of logic are merely a reflection of God's nature.
              Whenever you (I presume you are an Atheist) use reason or make a truth claim you are borrowing from my worldview. So no, NOT "anyone can say that, right?". Neither you nor the Muslim can make any knowledge claim without borrowing from the Christian worldview.

              The bible is full of unscientific nonsense - like a flat earth

              Proverbs 9:10 says that “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom…” The Bible is the word of the Living God. You interpret it with the wisdom of man and are surprised at your foolish interpretation? 1 Corinthians 1:18 ”For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing” Is it any wonder you see God’s word as foolishness? You need to repent to the God that you know exists.

              • inferiority of women, racism, superiority of gods chosen people.

              I would suggest that you are performing isogesis in imparting your own interpretation upon the text, but forgetting that for now, by what standard do you claim that these things are really, truly, absolutely wrong? By what objective standard to you sit in judgement over the Almighty to claim His actions as right or wrong? In your atheistic worldview these things are merely relative and based on the whims of subjective opinion. Without an objective standard for morality you can’t say, for example, that what Stalin and Mao did was really truly wrong.

              (This is fun, but just to clarify once again, I am not a believer 😊 )

              • HelloNorfolkIsland on 17/06/2020 - 18:07
                +1

                @defecat0r: Defecat0r: What is your foundation for truth? What is your foundation for reason or the Laws of Logic upon which reason is based?

                Hello: Reading the bible, thats why i said i would be happy to provide bible scripture for any of the items i listed.

                Its hardly a secret for example on the topic of sickness being linked to demon possession or as a punishment from god. The gospels have several stories where this very statement is made before Jesus helps.

                Jesus and the gospels would have helped far more people if they just said sick people are not cursed by god, as sick people have been cruely treated because others thought they were being punished by god. Not clarify a mis truth is harmful as this example shows.

                If you dont believe me on any of the topics i mentioned, just ask ONE and i will provide examples. One at a time.

                ~

                H: The bible is full of unscientific nonsense - like a flat earth

                D Proverbs 9:10 says that “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom…” The Bible is the word of the Living God. You interpret it with the wisdom of man and are surprised at your foolish interpretation?

                H: Im not interpreting anything the bible tells us in plain text.

                https://biblehub.com/genesis/1-7.htm

                New King James Version
                Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

                Scroll down and look at the Hebrew words, its clear many bibles are hiding the hebrew word clearly means firmament

                the expanse
                הָרָקִיעַ֒ (hā·rā·qî·a‘)
                Article | Noun - masculine singular
                Strong's Hebrew 7549: An expanse, the firmament, visible arch of the sky

                Go ask your local friendly Rabbi to show you Genesis 1:7 in Hebrew and ask him what a firmament is, or look it up on wiki. This clearly shows the bible is telling us here the earth is flat.

                ~

                D: inferiority of women, racism, superiority of gods chosen people.
                I would suggest that you are performing isogesis in imparting your own interpretation upon the text, but forgetting that for now

                m: Please help me here.

                • How many women were apostles not disciples, apostles of Jesus. 13 men, zero women.
                • How many high priests were women ? Over 50 mentioned in the OT, all men.
                • How many women were given the privilege of writing a book in the bible ? ZERO.

                When you say interpretation anybodies interpretation is wrong, you are insulting their ability to write and claiming they cannot write clearly without confusion or ambiguity. The truth is people make this claim because they cant handle the basic truth of what the text says.

                Feel free to challenge me. I dont need to lie about what the bible says, I will happily show you what it says so you can read it for yourself, like i did for flat earth beleif above.

                • gto21 on 17/06/2020 - 19:02

                  @HelloNorfolkIsland: Wanders of World Balance is the truth.

                  Please consider brother. And think about it.

                  The temporal differential we call wakefulness is the cosmic interaction of subatomic particles operating in the quantum field, the (quantum)leap represents a fundamental universal constant that we can only speculate upon in the macro scale of wave form frequencies.

                  All praise to the Oracles of Dusk.

                • defecat0r on 17/06/2020 - 20:39
                  +1

                  @HelloNorfolkIsland: Hey HelloNorfolkIsland. I want to be sure you understand what I’m doing here: I’m attempting to argue against your points using (mostly) presuppositional apologetics. This is not a position I hold. The strength of the more highly evolved religions of the world (and the presup flavour of Christianity in particular) is that they have acquired many defence mechanisms that render the belief totally unfalsifiable. That’s what I’m trying to show here :)

                  Its hardly a secret for example on the topic of sickness being linked to demon possession or as a punishment from god. The gospels have several stories where this very statement is made before Jesus helps.

                  What is your point? That science has proved this false? You would be laughably incorrect. Who is to say that SOME types of sickness are NOT caused by demons? God can act in His creation however He wants, do you doubt he has this power of His creation?

                  Jesus and the gospels would have helped far more people if they just said sick people are not cursed by god, as sick people have been cruely treated because others thought they were being punished by god. Not clarify a mis truth is harmful as this example shows.

                  Who are you to say what WOULD HAVE HELPED far more people? Are you omniscient? Romans 8:28 says ”And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.” God causes ALL THINGS to work together for the good of his people!

                  The bible is full of unscientific nonsense - like a flat earth. Im not interpreting anything the bible tells us in plain text.

                  Read the Bible in context! YOU don’t get to choose what genre God writes his word in. Genesis is a rich tapestry of poetic allegory. Just because the Bible SAYS God separated the waters above from the waters below doesn’t mean that’s what the Bible MEANS! To whom was the Scripture given? The ancient Israelites. A scientific breakdown of quantum mechanics was not God’s intention, it was written in a way that would make sense to the Israelites at the time.

                  Go ask your local friendly Rabbi to show you Genesis 1:7 in Hebrew and ask him what a firmament is, or look it up on wiki. This clearly shows the bible is telling us here the earth is flat.

                  Incorrect. It’s not showing that the earth is flat, it’s showing that many people have FALSELY interpreted the 'raqia', or firmament to be a solid dome. Keep reading in Genesis 1 to verse 8 where it CLEARLY says “God called the vault “sky””, and in verse 20 birds fly through it.

                  Please help me here. How many women were apostles not disciples, apostles of Jesus. 13 men, zero women. How many high priests were women ? Over 50 mentioned in the OT, all men. How many women were given the privilege of writing a book in the bible ? ZERO.

                  You are being swept away by the corruption of this adulterous and sinful generation. You, who has NO objective grounds to call anything ‘good’ or ‘bad’, you, who has fallen into such abhorrent depths of depravity are going to label God’s decision to establish gender roles for His Body of Christ as immoral? Romans 12:4 ” For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function” God's ways are CERTAINLY higher than YOUR ways.

                  When you say interpretation anybodies interpretation is wrong, you are insulting their ability to write and claiming they cannot write clearly without confusion or ambiguity.

                  Are you making an absolute truth claim here? Are you making a knowledge claim here? Could you be wrong? You misunderstood my question earlier - what is the FOUNDATION that enables you to make knowledge claims? How do you EXPLAIN, how do you JUSTIFY the laws of logic from which reason stems? Could you be a brain in a vat? Could you be wrong about everything you know?
                  Until you can answer these questions, you, and everyone else is BORROWING FROM MY WORLDVIEW.

                  Get down on your knees and repent to the God that you know exists that he might lift the scales from your eyes!

                  • HelloNorfolkIsland on 18/06/2020 - 17:30

                    @defecat0r: H: Its hardly a secret for example on the topic of sickness being linked to demon possession or as a punishment from god. The gospels have several stories where this very statement is made before Jesus helps.

                    D: What is your point? That science has proved this false? You would be laughably incorrect. Who is to say that SOME types of sickness are NOT caused by demons?

                    h: Really you are going to let all those people suffer because 1 in a very big number had a demon ?

                    This is pathetic a lot of people could have had a better life if people were taught the right thing and helped rather than judge based on nonsense.

                    D: God can act in His creation however He wants, do you doubt he has this power of His creation?

                    H: There is no god, Im only judging the selfish motivation of the authors. Funny how god always picks the authors as the favourite leader. The pattern here is obvious. Strnage how you think all these authors and leaders are benevolent. Do you believe all ads on tv and the internet or is the truth actually they want to sell you something ?

                    ~

                    D: Read the Bible in context! YOU don’t get to choose what genre God writes his word in. Genesis is a rich tapestry of poetic allegory.

                    H: Since the allegory is not underlined in red, that means the honesty of the book is none. Imagine a hospital needing medicine but none of the bottles have labels, those supplies are useless and cant be used. You just admitted the bible has no value as it could all be lies.

                    Harldy a shock the bible is a lie, just look at who wrote the vast majority, kings and high priests, the billionaires and politicians of yesteryear. Maybe its just me but i wouldnt trust Musk, Bezos or Trump or Morrison. if they said God chose them, but here you want to believe the kings and priests of ancient israel who wrote the majority of the bible.

                    Majority not all. Moses was a prince, King David, King Solomon, Jeremiah and Isaiah etc etc

                    ~

                    H: Please help me here. How many women were apostles not disciples, apostles of Jesus. 13 men, zero women. How many high priests were women ? Over 50 mentioned in the OT, all men. How many women were given the privilege of writing a book in the bible ? ZERO.

                    D: You are being swept away by the corruption of this adulterous and sinful generation

                    H: Your nonsense doesnt change the fact that GOD never mentions this inequality is wrong.

                    God sends many messages but where is the message that the laws he gave to Moses are WRONG and this wrong needs to be corrected ?

                    We have laws that men cant shave their beard, where is the law that women are equal ?

                    Do you think scientists today refute and establish science by insulting others with the nonsense as their primary proof of a medicine or some other discovery ?

                    ~

                    D: God’s decision to establish gender roles for His Body of Christ as immoral?

                    h: So you just admitted that there is inequality of women, make up your mind you just said previously that my statement was incorrect.

                    You cant have it both ways, you cant are lying now and contradicting yourself

                    ~

                    D: re you making an absolute truth claim here? Are you making a knowledge claim here? Could you be wrong? You misunderstood my question earlier - what is the FOUNDATION that enables you to make knowledge claims?

                    H: Stop this reason from authority bullshit. What you really mean is authority by means of violence and a threat of death and harm just like the bible authors performed on their poor subjects like Moses and sons of Korah

                    Great champion of humanity that Moses, free speech and all that he supports and then kills thousands including babies and children.

                    ~

                    D: Incorrect. It’s not showing that the earth is flat, it’s showing that many people have FALSELY interpreted the 'raqia', or firmament to be a solid dome. Keep reading in Genesis 1 to verse 8 where it CLEARLY says “God called the vault “sky””, and in verse 20 birds fly through it.

                    H: You want to pretend saying vault sky is a scientific discription of some sort ? Come on thats a joke if you think that in itself is a proper scientific level of quality and description.

                    v20 can say whatever it wants, but any person reading v7 would have understood the world to be flat. The purpose of writing is what you share with the reader, not what the author knows. If ALL readers misunderstands or undestands something else thats the fault of the author and in this case in v7 the author has used those words and taught the earth is flat to readers.

                    ~

                    D: Get down on your knees and repent to the God that you know exists that he might lift the scales from your eyes!

                    h: You are a liar, you said in your previous comment that you are not a believer.

                    Why would i lower myself to the standards of a book that doesnt even know slavery is wrong, but wastes dozens of pages of nonsense like shaving a beard is a sin. Yup im going to believe the claims of the billionaires and political rulers of ancient Israel, because they are the authors of majority of the bible

                    • defecat0r on 18/06/2020 - 20:19

                      @HelloNorfolkIsland: Hey H, once again I’m not 100% sure you know what I’m doing here: I think it’s good to understand where your interlocuter is coming from in a debate, and it’s good practice arguing from their position to see how well you understand it. So for the record, I don’t believe any of this! I’m being rude to you for two reasons: 1. I’m sure you can take it, and 2. I’ve been spoken to like this by Christians before. (it’s also kinda fun :p ) So I might be misrepresenting MOST of them but I’m certainly not misrepresenting ALL of them.

                      Anywho, on with the fun!

                      <PRESUP MODE: ENGAGED>

                      H: There is no god, Im only judging the selfish motivation of the authors. Funny how god always picks the authors as the favourite leader. The pattern here is obvious. Strnage how you think all these authors and leaders are benevolent. Do you believe all ads on tv and the internet or is the truth actually they want to sell you something ?

                      Is this a knowledge claim you are making here? Are you absolutely certain about that? Could you be wrong? You STILL haven’t justified your foundation for knowledge and are STILL borrowing from my worldview to deny the God you KNOW in your heart exists! (Romans 1:20). Because you LOVE YOUR SIN God has given you over to a depraved mind, you suppress the truth in your unrighteousness! (Romans 1:18).

                      Your nonsense doesnt change the fact that GOD never mentions this inequality is wrong. God sends many messages but where is the message that the laws he gave to Moses are WRONG and this wrong needs to be corrected ?

                      Once again, who are you to claim anything is right or wrong? You have NO FOUNDATION for morality! With your moral relativism you can’t even say that the atrocities carried out by ATHEISTS like Stalin and Mao are really, truly wrong! Who are YOU to claim that the OT Law is wrong?

                      So you just admitted that there is inequality of women, make up your mind you just said previously that my statement was incorrect. You cant have it both ways, you cant are lying now and contradicting yourself

                      God, in his Righteous Wisdom has decided to place men in a place of authority over women. As it is written:
                      Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
                      Who are you to question God’s ways? Romans 9:20: * But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”*

                      Stop this reason from authority bullshit. What you really mean is authority by means of violence and a threat of death and harm just like the bible authors performed on their poor subjects like Moses and sons of Korah

                      You reject the Ultimate Authority, and in doing so forego any claim to knowledge. READ YOUR SCRIPTURE and perhaps you will begin to understand: Ephesians 4:18 * They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.*

                      To respond further would be to repeat myself. You look at God’s inerrant Word through the lens of your deplorable sin. As I have quoted before, this comes at NO surprise, ”For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing”

                      <PRESUP MODE: DISENGAGED>

                      Really though, I don’t think you will get anywhere with the line of argumentation you are currently employing. I know, I’ve tried. Most Christians are hardened to Biblical criticisms and they have no shortage of (mostly bad) refutations to the problems. I really think Street Epistemology is the best tool to use in most cases (search “Anthony Magnabosco” on YouTube if you are interested in that), however to argue against a presuppositionalist I think you do need a basic understanding of their script as well as philosophy 101 (laws of logic, transcendental argument for the existence of God, epistemology etc), and a good handle on the myriad fallacies they resort to in their epistemology.

                      Anyway, peace :)

                      • HelloNorfolkIsland on 18/06/2020 - 20:58

                        @defecat0r: H: There is no god, Im only judging the selfish motivation of the authors. Funny how god always picks the authors as the favourite leader. The pattern here is obvious. Strnage how you think all these authors and leaders are benevolent. Do you believe all ads on tv and the internet or is the truth actually they want to sell you something ?

                        D: Is this a knowledge claim you are making here? Are you absolutely certain about that? Could you be wrong?

                        H: Why do you believe murdering dictators like Moses and King David ? Basically all the bible authors of the OT were aresholes and would all be in jail for a long time if they were alive today or wanted by the UN.

                        Of all the people in the world to believe these are the last people anyone should believe, except their promise to kill/torture you of course.

                        So would you believe if Hitler, Saddam or Stalin all claimed to be messengers from god and contributed to Bible v20 ?

                        ~

                        H: Stop this reason from authority bullshit. What you really mean is authority by means of violence and a threat of death and harm just like the bible authors performed on their poor subjects like Moses and sons of Korah

                        D: You reject the Ultimate Authority, and in doing so forego any claim to knowledge.

                        H: Yet again you are confusing "God" teh concept with the claims of the authors. Like i mentioned before, given their many basic scientific mistakes and completely terrible morality there is no reason to believe what they say.

                        Would a creator of the universe really be so stupid to teach and allow ideas like demonism cause sickness or would they teach about germs ?

                        ~

                        D: You look at God’s inerrant Word through the lens of your deplorable sin. As I have quoted before, this comes at NO surprise, ”For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing”

                        H: What in have a committed ? Since im not in jail, i think we can assume im not a murderer, rapist or slaver.

                        Can the God say that of his friends like Moses, David, Abraham ? Strange how nobody seems to care about the evil they committed, and yes its written without shame or judgement in the bible, in fact the bible tells us they are great men.

                        You talk to much about judgement, you should be judging the bible authors and so called friends of god for the criminals they are.

                        ~

                        D: Most Christians are hardened to Biblical criticisms and they have no shortage of (mostly bad) refutations to the problems.

                        N: You mean like telling the truth, unlike yourself ?

                        I havent made any claims ive always referred to the bible and given examples where challenged. Like i said previously Christians like yourself, cant handle the simple truth that the Bible and its so called figures or virtue are not actually nice people at all.

                        I mean how exactly does one explain that God in all his love, cant write anywhere in the bible that raping kids and slavery are wrong ?

                        The answer is simple, God didnt contribute to the bible, and if you understand who the authors of the bible are, you will better understand why they didnt give a shit about raping kids or slavery.

                      • HelloNorfolkIsland on 18/06/2020 - 21:05

                        @defecat0r: D: I think you do need a basic understanding of their script

                        H: I know scripture and many other things on a level far greater than you, as I have already demonstrated with my sharing of bible passages. For all your knowledge you havent shared anything except childish banter and continued lies and mistruths.

                        D: as well as philosophy 101 (laws of logic, transcendental argument for the existence of God, epistemology etc), and a good handle on the myriad fallacies they resort to in their epistemology.

                        H: Do you think real scientists and adults with an honest argument make such pathetic excuses when they have been challenged ?

                        But but, i want to lie and lie again. Go tell your bank manager or Woolies or anybody else that the bank loan, gas bill or grocies can be dismissed with a 5c coin.

                        You simple dont understand that most actions can be answered by the oldest and most obvious answer, selfishness and not elaborate extraordinary lies.

                        Basic truth is most bible authors especially in the OT are murdering thugs, they are even proud of it, you can read their stories of killing and more.

                        How many bible authors gave away even part of their wealth in the bible ? Did Moses ? Did any of the glorious Kings like david, Solomon, or high priests with their temples of gold, like Jeremiah, Ezra ?

                        Did anybody in the bible give food to the poor even once ?

                        A thousand years, hundreds of prophets and friends of god, one many examples are shared with us of this in the bible ?

      • RubenM on 13/06/2020 - 22:51

        It's hard to tell satire from actual lunacy…

      • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 23:23
        +1

        I'll be surprised you went from one extreme view to another.

        After you fail with your comments and downvote. Is that a new strategy to discredit Christianity?

        I hope people see the desperation of the atheist. You guys are truly having a meltdown. 😂

        Some of you will be the new defecat0r in a few years.

        Just one example of several of your downvote and comments.

        defecat0r on 02/12/2018 - 14:41
        Negging as I can't in good conscience support the propagation of lies.

        Christians: it is time to pull your head out of the sand and consider ALL of the evidence. So far you have read ONLY the bible of your Christian god and surrounded yourself with a community that parrots the same cherry-picked rubbish from your 'sacred text' while ignoring all the lies, contradictions and morally abhorrent teachings. Your book is NO DIFFERENT to the 'sacred' books of any othemonotheisticic religion - you all claim to solely have the answer; you all claim to know your god is the right god through personal revelation. You are NOT unique in this.

        This free audio "Course" is more biased trash that will further you down a path of ignorance.

        You have put your hands over your eyes and fingers in your ears when confronted with scientific argument explaining our origins. It's time to stop, think rationally and see the myth for what it is.

        CHRISTIANS, WAKE UP! You will find that people in your life will be surprisingly understanding when you admit that you have been wrong all these years and are now prepared to listen to reason. Good luck!

        • defecat0r on 14/06/2020 - 12:29

          Good example you have found, I guess I'm mellowing in my old age.

          Is it a bad thing to discredit Christianity? If so, why?

          • gto21 on 14/06/2020 - 12:48

            @defecat0r: The level of desperation is amazing. You're even fooling atheists like you in believing you're a Christian. You discredit yourself if deception is the only tool you can use. It's sad you said your old. I thought you must be a kid with nothing better to do.

            Your downvote and comments did not have much effect. Your upvote and pretending to be a Christian is not working. You just got exposed.

            Do you have no shame in asking me why deception is wrong in an attempt discredit a worldview?

          • gto21 on 14/06/2020 - 13:01

            @defecat0r: To use deception to discredit a worldview shows when you're honest you can't do it. It's damaging when it is all you can do after years of attacking Christianity.

            • defecat0r on 14/06/2020 - 14:33

              @gto21:

              Do you have no shame in asking me why deception is wrong in an attempt discredit a worldview?

              I don't see this as a deception, but you raise an interesting point. IS deception wrong in your opinion? Allow me to present a thought experiment:

              I am in high-school. Me and my group of friends really dislike this other kid in our grade, this kid is called Steve. Now Steve is a pretty nasty kid, he's not nice at all and we are sitting around plotting how to 'get' him.

              Now there is a group of bullies that's been messing with Steve lately, and in my infinite wisdom, I come up with the bright idea to plot to get Steve beat up by these bullies. But how can I manipulate this situation to get my desired outcome? I put this question to my friends.

              Everybody has a good think about it, people suggest this and that, but eventually one of my friends comes forward and says "defecat0r, I've got a good idea - I can go to Steve and lie into his ear, I can tell him that our group will have his back if he challenges the head bully to a fight. I'll tell Steve that if he sets up a fight behind the toilets at 4 o'clock we'll be there to have his back, but we won't be and he'll get mashed".

              I think this is a great idea and I tell my friend "Yes, go and do it".

              So my friend goes and lies to Steve, who consequently gets beat into his coma. Later, his parents ring the school and inform our grade that Steve has permanent brain damage and will never fully recover. I, on the other hand, am well pleased with the outcome.

              NOW, I haven't directly lied, I never committed any violence act myself, but one could argue that I was the head instigator in a deception to cause harm to someone I despise. The question is, 1. was this deception wrong and 2. did I do ANYTHING wrong?

              • gto21 on 14/06/2020 - 14:55

                @defecat0r: I have the policy of not wasting time with someone who does not deserve it. Matthew 7:6

                Do you really think I'm interested in a conversation with you after you already admit you use deception? I'm not expecting an honest answer from you.

                So no point wasting my time, you're not worth it.

                • defecat0r on 14/06/2020 - 15:28

                  @gto21: I've already told you that I'm not on a mission to deceive people, I think that's clear to anybody that reads what I've been posting here. However, If you consider me to be a dog and/or a pig, that's ok, you will find no animosity from me :)

                  If you no longer wish to engage with someone under the dominion of the Evil One, that's ok, but allow me to place this here for anyone that may be interested in a biblical answer to the thought experiment:

                  1 Kings 22:19-23
                  19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
                  “One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’
                  22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.
                  “‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.
                  “‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’
                  23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”

                  As we can see, Jesus (who is God if you are a Trinitarian) uses deception to send Ahab (a king he didn't like) to his death. Using the actions of Jesus as a reference, deception as presented is NOT wrong. Agree/disagree?

                  • gto21 on 14/06/2020 - 17:29

                    @defecat0r: You have a question mark at the end, even after I told you I'm not interested in a conversation. How much lower than can you possibly get? You still want my attention.

                    I don't care if you like it or not. Proverbs 26:5

                    You're trying to convince me you're not trying to deceive. But you come up with a story in the hope I fall for the trap. (It was not a very good trap as you will see below) Instead of just making the claim that you believe Yahweh is a deceiver. You don't need to set up a trap. You can just be honest.

                    In addition "clear to anybody that reads what I've been posting here". You have several comments which indicate you expect a response. You even click on the reply button but you don't expect anyone to read it. Ok, I'm convinced. lol

                    This is gold, you quote possibly one of the easiest passage to refute. You chose this one shows your level of biblical illiteracy.

                    1) You quote a passage where Micaiah made the correct prophecy and Ahab still went into battle. Showing Yahweh did reveal the truth to Ahab.

                    2) You a passage where you show it's a third party doing it, not Yahweh. Why a bible illiterate would think it's Yahweh. Because you don't know the bible can attribute the action to Yahweh even when a third party is doing the action. Because Yahweh is sovereign. If you don't believe me read Exodus 4:22-23 crossreference Exodus 12:23, Psalm 78:19 and Job chapter 1 & 2. That's just how biblical language works. To be fair it's a bit advance for someone like you to know that.

                    3) You quote a passage in which Yahweh is giving the false prophet and Ahab the desire of their hearts. If you knew the context you would identify when it's referring to a true prophet and when it's referring to the false prophets. And what where their desires.

                    I learn how to refute this objection after just one year of converting to Christianity. Even when I was a new believer I knew this. You objection makes me giggle.

                    Do you see what happened when you pontificate? You end up embarrassing yourself for your own shame.

                    I know your hurt you want to pontificate more after humiliating yourself.

                    Here a playlist for you to watch, educate yourself instead of embarrassing yourself. This playlist will save me and you a lot of time. The playlist refutes the lies that Yahweh is a deceiver.

                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-jZmMIqvFx8UdQqv-WLL…

                    Now, will you respect my choice of not continuing a conversation with you? If you need attention you have many other people you can communicate.

                    I won't trust anything you say about the bible especially after you pretending to be a Christian to deceive people here. No point distorting the bible or take it out of context. So don't waste your time I don't care what you have to say. I already lost respect for you. Don't humiliate yourself more by keep begging for a conversation with me.

                    • defecat0r on 14/06/2020 - 19:28

                      @gto21: Well my friend, mayhap the reason I so irresistibly seek your attention is your witty banter and the fact that you are such a good listener. You are never hasty to judge a complete stranger and so excel at discerning the true motives of people you do not know.

                      If you will perhaps allow me to exegete the true meaning of your words: You, like we see so often in the Bible, say one thing yet mean something completely different. You say you no longer wish to converse yet post a detailed reply with video links to boot! (thanks for these btw, they genuinely are right up my alley 😊 ) As such, I will respond having “read between the lines” understanding that had you truly not wished to continue you would would not have responded ^_^

                      Now, on to business!

                      You're trying to convince me you're not trying to deceive. But you come up with a story in the hope I fall for the trap. (It was not a very good trap as you will see below) Instead of just making the claim that you believe Yahweh is a deceiver. You don't need to set up a trap. You can just be honest.

                      In future, just assume at all times that I am not interested in truth and that I am just out to trap, fool and deceive. (I know nothing I can say will convince you otherwise).

                      I fail to understand your surprise that one such as I has such a degree of biblical illiteracy? Surely you must understand that I am perishing due to the delight I take in my wickedness? I am perishing because I refuse to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends me a powerful delusion so that I will believe the lie! (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

                      You a passage where you show it's a third party doing it, not Yahweh. Why a bible illiterate would think it's Yahweh. Because you don't know the bible can attribute the action to Yahweh even when a third party is doing the action. Because Yahweh is sovereign

                      I don’t quite follow… in that I’m pretty sure I understood all of this and incorporated it into my thought experiment? As the fellow in the 1 Kings 22 video you linked says, Yahweh is permitting an unclean evil spirit to fulfill his purposes, I totally agree, this is my point.

                      You quote a passage in which Yahweh is giving the false prophet and Ahab the desire of their hearts.

                      Indeed, and how does he accomplish this? By means of deception, which, as you will remember, is the whole point I’m trying to make.

                      I enjoy our banter and look forward to your reply. I hope you can be patient with a foolish degenerate. Genuinely tho, peace :)

                      • gto21 on 14/06/2020 - 20:16

                        @defecat0r: Sometimes you can ignore someone. And sometimes people with low self-esteem they keep begging for attention. From time to time you need to bury them.

                        Not my fault you gave me the opportunity to embarrass you and humiliate you.

                        I'm not surprised you quote both the "objection" and refutation. 😆

                        Anyway, you prove my point. You mention it's a third party. The third-party doing the deception.

                        What do you want don't give them the desire of their hearts? Take their freewill. Maybe you think human beings become robots is the solution. In his mercy he still warns them and they did not listen. If you think being robots is the solution I don't care.

                        And your story was flawed on several levels. Which show you don't know the context. But you will do a bit better now that I've educated you.

                        After you embarrass yourself. Now you have to quote another verse to divert. Unfortunately, for you. The playlist deals with this distortion of the Bible as well. I'm a few steps ahead of you that's why I sent the playlist. I knew it will be your next move after getting refuted.

                        So be a good boy and go study. Watch the series. If you don't accept the explanation that's fine. I don't care you don't need to message me.

                        And I also don't care if you're searching the truth or not.

                        Finally, genius if you try to find a verse, not in the playlist. The reason is that it's highly likely to have the same principles as another verse in the playlist. Just remember I'm a few steps ahead of you.

                        Be a good boy, watch the series.

                        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-jZmMIqvFx8UdQqv-WLL…

                        • defecat0r on 14/06/2020 - 20:48

                          @gto21: My friend! Thank you for your speedy reply and kind words. You are truly an image bearer of Christ.

                          So be a good boy and go study. Watch the series. If you don't accept the explanation that's fine.

                          I do accept the explanation. The explanation is my very point, I don't understand how you don't understand that?

                          You are right though, I am a poor, ignorant peasant with low self-esteem that loves to beg for attention. I simply don't understand the context! I do Thank you for graciously allotting the time you have to replying to my pleas for help.

                          After you embarrass yourself. Now you have to quote another verse to divert. Unfortunately, for you. The playlist deals with this distortion of the Bible as well.
                          Yes! I saw that and watched it too! It had pretty much the same objections as the previous one, and I totally agree with the explanation! I love that we can agree on these things :)

                          And yes, I'll always remember this day I was bested by you (I'm still somewhat unclear as to how) but I will remember that you are one step ahead!

                          Haha, have a good week bud :)

                          • gto21 on 14/06/2020 - 21:02

                            @defecat0r: The explanation is your point. 😆

                            You said you're old. I'm worried about you. Is it bedtime yet? Did you have your fish oil, vitamin d and calcium?

                          • aoiro on 15/06/2020 - 18:27

                            @defecat0r: Quite enjoyed that run, and how you've taken all that anger thrown at you in stride to try and keep the dialogue logical. Socrates would have been proud.

                            • defecat0r on 17/06/2020 - 16:12

                              @aoiro: Thank you, I appreciate your comment :)

                  • HelloNorfolkIsland on 17/06/2020 - 15:01

                    @defecat0r: Jesus is never mentioned in the Old Testament by name, title or position. The Old Testament does not know a single thing about him. It never mentions 12 Apostles, Nazareth, 3 wise men, Mary and Joseph by name, Crucifiction in Gethsemane and so on, walking on water, feeding with loaves and fishes and more. There are so many stories in the Gospels and yet NONE of them appear in the Old testament or even in the letters of Saint Paul.

                    There are many characters called Lord, practically every god, king, priest is also called Lord, same thing happened in the middle ages, humble peasants called their masters or superiors, a priest, lord of the manor and more, "Lord". The pagan God Baal name Baal means Lord.

  • HelloNorfolkIsland on 13/06/2020 - 14:52
    +1

    What did Jesus say about charging to learn about the bible ?

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10%3A5-…

    Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

    Not sure why anyone would want to learn from people who dont remember what is said in the gospel of Matthew.

    • WalletFullOfMoths on 13/06/2020 - 16:38
      +1

      What's your point? This is a free deal. Anybody can access the Bible freely whenever and wherever they want. This software is built by theologians and software engineers to assist people in understanding it in greater depth. It's a Biblical principle that people who teach the Bible can be paid for their efforts (1 Timothy 5:17).

      • HelloNorfolkIsland on 13/06/2020 - 19:35

        Before they were charging and they also charges for other items.

      • HelloNorfolkIsland on 17/06/2020 - 14:57

        Are you saying Jesus didnt know what he was talking about, and you think Saint Paul knows better ?

        • WalletFullOfMoths on 18/06/2020 - 21:07

          Sorry, I should have explained myself better. Reading the context of the Matthew 10:8 verse, it seems to be saying to his twelve disciples "you received the important news of God's kingdom without paying for it, so pass it on without pay". So the implication today is that we should never charge people to hear the gospel. This company gives away a basic version of their software with a free Bible and various helpful study guides freely (https://www.logos.com/basic). The basic version is really good! However, they are charging for other items that assist with Bible study (or in this case, giving some away free for a limited time).

          If you spent a year of your time writing a book to help others understand the Bible, doesn't it make sense that you would get paid for your efforts? What if you made it your career to write Bible commentaries?

          No, Jesus and Paul agree - "a labourer deserves his wages", whether speaking about a physical labourer, or one who labours in literary study and writing. The New Testament gives plenty of evidence that Jesus and Paul were both supported financially and physically by others to teach truth from the Bible in their travels.

          In Matthew 10:10, Jesus says "the labourer deserves his food", suggesting others will provide for the itinerant preachers. This might be giving them a meal, or giving them money so they can buy themselves a meal while travelling. In the parallel passage of this passage in Matthew, Luke's version says "And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the labourer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house." Lk 10:7 ESV.

          In the verse following the one I quoted above, Paul says: For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” 1 Ti 5:18 ESV

          Jesus and Paul are both quoting a Scriptural principle - people who work should be paid for their labour in some form (Lev. 19:13; Deut. 24:15).

          Another really helpful passage on rewarding Bible teachers with appropriate financial and physical reward is the following:
          Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk? 8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10 Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. 1 Co 9:4–14 ESV

          I hope that makes sense, and I hope you have a great day! :)

          • HelloNorfolkIsland on 18/06/2020 - 21:26

            @WalletFullOfMoths: S: new
            Sorry, I should have explained myself better. Reading the context of the Matthew 10:8 verse, it seems to be saying to his twelve disciples "you received the important news of God's kingdom without paying for it, so pass it on without pay". So the implication today is that we should never charge people to hear the gospel.

            H: Thats correct, if you are going to be honest and obey and listen to Jesus, then you should accept that.

            ~

            S: This company gives away a basic version of their software with a free Bible and various helpful study guides freely (https://www.logos.com/basic). The basic version is really good! However, they are charging for other items that assist with Bible study (or in this case, giving some away free for a limited time).

            H: Yes i know they charge and thats my point. There are no buts in Jesus statement. He says not to charge, its that simple.

            ~

            S: If you spent a year of your time writing a book to help others understand the Bible, doesn't it make sense that you would get paid for your efforts? What if you made it your career to write Bible commentaries?

            H: Dont argue with me, Jesus made a very simple statement, there are no ifs or buts. Sorry im going to assume here you are a believer, but if you believe Jesus was God or Son of God, im sure he had half a brain and knew life costs money. Are you saying Jesus was that stupid ?

            ~

            S: In the verse following the one I quoted above, Paul says: For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” 1 Ti 5:18 ESV

            h: Irrelevant Jesus trumps anything Paul says, son of god v mere man and all that. Anyway there is no reason to believe a fraud like Paul any more than to believe any of the other religious frauds of all history. Paul knew nothing of Jesus, your average man in the street knows more of Jesus.

            Paul tells us he visited jerusalem and spoke to the 12, and yet he never mentions Jesus death, the crucifiction, his birth in bethlehem or anything. P never mentions a single thing about Jesus life or ministry, its almost like he doesnt know. How exactly is this possible, theres a simple answer of course, P lied.

            ~

            S: Jesus and Paul are both quoting a Scriptural principle - people who work should be paid for their labour in some form (Lev. 19:13; Deut. 24:15).

            H: Please we both know that in law the more specific case trumps a broad case. Jesus statement about receiving the good news for free trumps the general statement about payment for work.

            Its really dishonest you try and weasel your way from this obvious truth, i mean its the same weaselling that makes people think suicide bombings and killings for god, because their judgement about whatever superceeds whats actually written in the bible or koran.

            • WalletFullOfMoths on 02/07/2020 - 21:26

              @HelloNorfolkIsland: Hi HelloNorfolkIsland, sorry for the delay in replying.

              1. Where do you get the idea that Jesus' words are more important than Paul's? The whole Bible is God's Word, so it is rare that Christians put Jesus' words above Paul's words, and simply comes from a misunderstanding. The Holy Spirit inspired/moved each author to write what God intended. This is a whole discussion in itself (see 2 Timothy 3:16).

              2. Where do you get the idea that Paul never spoke about Jesus' life or ministry? Paul's letters frequently mention Jesus' death and resurrection.

              I don't think it is weaseling. I'd really prefer to talk to you face-to-face about these things, as I would like to hear your thoughts in more detail. Send me a personal message on OzBargain, and we can have a chat via Zoom.

  • Corrugated Ironman on 13/06/2020 - 15:14
    +1

    Does it have the answer to the question,
    “How can an omnipotent and benevolent god allow evil (and Trump) in the world?”
    Does it start with “blah blah blah free will .. blah”

    • tmg316 on 13/06/2020 - 16:15
      +1

      Yep - it does answer that question. Where have you been for the last 2000 years?

      • gto21 on 13/06/2020 - 16:33
        +2

        He is not interested in the answer since he already knows at least part of the answer.

        • FireRunner on 13/06/2020 - 18:31

          The only thing that his argument proves is that the version of god he wants doesn’t exist

  • Snake 4 on 13/06/2020 - 16:18
    +3

    There are more than 4,000 religions or offshoots of religions in the world all claiming to be correct in their interpretation of the biggest selling fiction book in the world.

    Wish I held the copyright.

    • SlickMick on 14/06/2020 - 12:58

      seems everybody is either searching for something or living in denial

  • ev3nfl0w on 13/06/2020 - 18:30

    Great deal and thanks - looking forward to going through this in detail and hopefully learning something about how to better address the increasing negative sentiment towards Christianity and religion in general.

    As from the comments posted on this forum time and time again - we live in a society where religious beliefs are seen in the same light as having radical ideologies (I saw a reference to the KKK somewhere in this thread).

    Ironic as many of these free thinkers and atheists also hold the belief that everyone is equal and have a right to their own opinions and viewpoints..

    • defecat0r on 13/06/2020 - 21:12

      looking forward to going through this in detail and hopefully learning something about how to better address the increasing negative sentiment towards Christianity and religion in general.

      I would encourage you to use this material for another purpose - to recognize that that apologetics are a filtering of the best arguments presented to defend the Christian faith that have been devised over the centuries. Look at these arguments in this light and ask the question: "I understand that these are the BEST arguments, but are they GOOD arguments?" Do these arguments warrant belief?

      I will leave you with a question - what do you value more highly: Jesus, or Truth?

  • Snake 4 on 13/06/2020 - 19:41

    @ev3nfl0w Great deal and thanks - looking forward to going through this in detail and hopefully learning something about how to better address the increasing negative sentiment towards Christianity and religion in general.

    And therein lies the problem.

    • ev3nfl0w on 15/06/2020 - 23:26

      It is interesting that people have this perception that those with faith cannot differentiate between fact vs. fiction.

      Whilst I understand (and agree to an extent) many of the points raised by atheists, this notion of 'absolute truth' based on 'evidence' and science seems to be the generic viewpoint held by many atheists whereas in fact, the more you understand about science and 'truth', the more you understand how its bound by a plethora of different paradigms and nuances which causes significant bias and subjectivity.

      Anyhow, I urge you to ask those with a belief 'why do you believe', as opposed to saying 'you should not believe'.

  • ash2000 on 13/06/2020 - 20:06
    +2

    Always surprises me how popular Christian related deals are on ozB. I think + votes are as much about giving LBJ a virtual fist bump as it is the existence of a genuine bargain.

    • defecat0r on 13/06/2020 - 21:05

      You need Jesus.

  • 777 on 13/06/2020 - 20:26
    +1

    Why so many naysayers?

    If you don't like this, move on. If you don't have anything nice to say,don't say anything. Religion is touchy subject, mods should consider something else for religious deals.

    We have seen it many many times regardless which sect it belongs to, some people will always have issues.

    Kindly have some respect for other religions at the end we are same humankind.

    • defecat0r on 13/06/2020 - 21:04
      +2

      Why should religion be a taboo topic? If Christianity is true it is of supreme consequence for all people. If it is false, then billions are wasting their time on it. Why should we "respect other religions" and not discuss the epistemology that has resulted in these beliefs? Should we not cordially discuss the reasons we have for our beliefs? 1 Peter 3:15 my good sir.

      • 777 on 13/06/2020 - 21:59

        What I mean is negative voting from people and not understanding other's point. My point is have a healthy discussion.I am on same lines but respect all religions. One needs to be open minded.

        I am not Christan but married to Catholic, went to Catholic school for 12 years and probably know more prayers than some of my Catholic friends

        They all are beautiful in their own way and imo one should believe in what they want to believe in. I was told in my religion, God is one. We just call him/ her in different name and ways.

        Ignorance is not a bliss.

        • defecat0r on 13/06/2020 - 22:12

          I am glad to see that we are largely on the same page. One area we differ: I believe that PEOPLE are inherently deserving of respect, religions and other ideologies, however, are not entitled to respect and should be critically examined.

          While I also agree that people should be free to believe what they will, I hold to the personal belief that we as a society should value a thing we call truth.

          Indeed, the religions of the world are part of our culture and history, but belief does not occur in a vacuum. Beliefs inform actions and actions have consequences.

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