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LiFePO4 12V 200Ah Battery with 250A Bluetooth Monitoring System $1,277 + $50 Delivery @ Muller Energy

350
OZBARGAIN

I know this is Ozbargain and someone may say that they can buy a 12V 200Ah LiFePO4 for less. And that's absolutely correct. However that battery WILL NOT have a Smart 250A Daly BMS with Bluetooth, it also won't be using Lishen cells or have any of the other benefits our battery has. In fact, it won't specify what components it uses and they will be of inferior quality.
So please have a look at the listing below, as the designer, I'm more than happy to answer any questions that you may have!

The list price is $1,297, however using "OZBARGAIN" will get you an extra $20 off.


Perfect for your 4WD, caravan, camper van or boat!
This 12V 200Ah (190Ah+ usable) drop in lead-acid-replacement battery has been made with ease of connectivity in mind. Whether your device uses USB A, USB C, cigarette lighter socket, 50A Anderson connector or ring terminals, this battery has got you covered. Further, the USB C has PD up to 45W and 20V, meaning that you can charge laptops and iPads with this charger.
It also features a stainless steel case and a 5A active cell balancer to ensure this battery will continue to do its job for many years to come.
The 250A Daly BMS with Bluetooth makes it very easy to check and set parameters of your battery to ensure it’s perfectly customised to your needs.
The quality Lishen cells that are used in the battery and the 5A active balancer mean that you will enjoy these batteries for many years to come.

Backed by our Australian 5 year warranty

Specifications
12V 200Ah (190Ah+ usable)
Lishen cells
250A Daly Smart BMS with Bluetooth
3x cigarette lighter sockets
1x 45W USB C charger that can charge laptops (PD to 20V)
1x 18W USB A
2x 50A Anderson connectors
5A active balancer
Stainless steel case
5 year warranty

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask here, or in our Facebook group where we discuss all things lithium batteries:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/australianlithiumbatteries/?...

Related Stores

Muller Energy
Muller Energy

Comments

  • +2

    $1,277 + delivery (save $220)

    The list price is $1,297, however using "OZBARGAIN" will get you an extra $20 off.

    Are we saving $20 or $220?

    • +2

      i just went through the checkout process and its $20 off.

      Think i'll pass.

      • -2

        I can update the description to reflect that the $200 is already taken off the price.

        In my opinion, it is excellent value for money.
        All components have been chosen with quality in mind, to make sure this battery lasts a long time.

        We tried to make sure that it's easy to connect all sorts of equipment with ease. Including a 45W USB C port with PD that can do a 20V output from the 12V input, something that's unique, as far as I'm aware.

    • Sorry, $1,297 is the initially discounted price, it's $1,497 on eBay and that's the price it will go up to on the website as well.
      The $20 discount on top of that is an Ozbargain special.

  • How does this compare to the Goblock?

    • +2

      They have some similar features, but the Goblock only goes up to 100Ah and costs nearly $3k.
      So it's MUCH more expensive per Watt hour.

      The Goblock also comes with only a 2 year warranty, compared to our 5 year warranty.

  • +2

    Might pay to put the physical dimensions on your website.

    • +2

      Thank you, noted! :)
      The dimensions are in one of the pictures, but I'll make sure they're updated on the website.

  • +2

    Pass

    • While in my mind, it is the best value battery in the Australian market, but at the same time, I know it can't be all things to all people.

      Sorry we couldn't help you on this occasion. Feel free to browse our other products. 🙂

  • +1

    what is the weight and dimensions? strange for that to not be listed

    • +1

      Yes thanks, an oversight that will get corrected.
      It's 310mm (plus terminals) wide 220mm deep and 230mm high and weighs 22.5kg.

      It's much smaller than some other batteries of the same capacity, even though it does have a lot more functionality.

  • Does the Bluetooth BMS include a shunt to show SOC?

    • +2

      It does show SOC in the Bluetooth BMS app, but it's but not a Coulomb counter, so while it can be a good guide, it's not always 100% accurate.

  • +1

    I was somewhat interested but $20 wasn’t enough for me to pull the trigger.
    I am waiting for a good deal on 2x +200AH batteries.

    A few suggestions - while you are using Lishen cells (known for value for money) there’s also different grades A / B which you don’t specify what you’re using.

    A 5 Year Australian warranty is nice to have and feels better than Renogy’s prorated warranty, but it doesn’t look like you’ve been trading for long.

    The above comments want more specs than marketing - dimensions, weights, charge voltage and amps recommended (if any?), BMS ratings, can they be paralleled and wired in series?

    Good luck MEnergy, it’s an interesting product, maybe I’ll wait for your next deal

    • +4

      Did you see this one?
      https://mullerenergy.com.au/product/2-x-muller-energy-12v-20...

      It has an additional $100 discount for two batteries.

      There are lots of options on grades of batteries and everyone seems to claim that their cells are grade A but everyone else's batteries are grade B. Our supplier certainly assures me that our cells are grade A.
      But to be completely honest with you, I have quite a cynical view of the whole grading thing. I don't really think it's that helpful given that there isn't even a common definition of what these grades mean or how many different grades there are.
      The cells do meet the factory specs and I'm more than happy to send you pictures of the cells to make up your own mind, but I've given up on trying to grade cells, as I find it to be a bit of a frivolous exercise.

      As for the warranty, it's obviously a decision you have to make. We're doing everything we can to ensure we'll be around for the entirety of the warranty period and far beyond that.
      If you decide to pay by credit card or PayPal, you will have some protection other than our warranty. Obviously not for the full 5 years, but from what I've seen most battery failures seem to be infant failures.

      As for the specs, thanks, we'll update that on the website. The weight and dimensions are already in one of the pictures but I agree it should also be in the specifications.
      I've also posted them in the comments above now.

      Charge voltage cutoff (this can be set via the BMS app) should be 14.6V or less, as per cell manufacturer's instructions. The actual charge voltage can be a bit higher than that though, as the BMS will ensure that your cell voltages don't go too high. 15V is fine, for example.
      We're asking users not to discharge below 10V (this cutoff too can be set via the app). I know that the majority of batteries go below that, but if you look at the cell's spec sheets, it specifies a minimum voltage of 2.5V (2.4*4=10), so that's what we're going with.

      Maximum continuous discharge rate is 250A, you can charge at a maximum of 250A, but it's recommended to keep it to 125A or below.

      This battery can NOT be connected in series and I personally don't think any LiFePO4 batteries should be. If you have to connect them in series, you may have bought the wrong voltage battery to start with. But that's just my opinion.
      They can be connected in parallel, but I don't recommend doing so unless you know what you're doing. This too is a bit of a general comment, but if you get the voltage matching wrong (for example) when you connect the cells together, you can definitely cause some problems.

      Thanks for your comments, I'll take them on board and will make sure that there are more specs and that they are easier to find.

      • Thanks for the detailed responses. There would be a lot of technical know how that went into designing and building these - let us know all about it!

        Also starting a business is tough,I mean it when I say good luck- you have interesting products and can’t wait to see your other designs

        • Thanks, I will be posting the other ones (if they qualify as bargains) on here.

          Alternatively, please feel free to join the Facebook group.

  • has anyone used any of their products? i dont think i have heard of them before
    its hard to trust a new company that seems to only have been around for 6 months
    also what is the charge rate? discharge rate is mentioned but not the charge rate - im guessing 150-250A which is pretty good

    im super tempted though it looks like exactly what im after for my 4wd delica

    • +2

      I've used their products! 😉
      But more seriously, yes you are correct, our company is quite new and there are only a handful of these batteries out in the wild.
      This company is less than a year old, that's also true.
      But I can assure you that these aren't just some random battery that has had a company label put on them and sold as ours. Months of design and prototyping has gone into this project and we've got other projects in the pipeline, including one novel one that we're currently working on a patent application for (sorry I can't say much more about that one right now).
      I've also worked in the industry for a fair few years now.

      At the end of the day, you obviously have to make the decision whether you decide to purchase from us or from a more established company that gives you less for your money.

      If you are concerned, there's always the option to return the battery within 30 days and have the purchase price refunded. Plus PayPal's buyer protection protects you for 6 months.

      The recommend charge rate is up to 125A, however the maximum charge rate is 250A.

      • Ok consider me convinced so just a few more questions

        Will the warranty cover this being installed inside the rear of a van and going 4wding? (specifically in the rear of a Mitsubishi Delica) it won't shake apart?

        How long will this be at this price? I don't have that much money right now but should be fine next payday

        • +1

          Yes, as long as the battery isn't stored at over 60°C, that's fine for the warranty.

          The end date of the price is yet to be determined, I would expect it to stay at this level for at least two weeks, but I can't guarantee it will.

          • @MEnergy: aww nuts i was just a bit too slow pulling the trigger on this
            next time its on sale ill try and jump on this faster :)

  • This may be a dumb question but I'm a noob. Is this good for running a car fridge/freezer? How do you charge it? Can it plug into mains power? What about car 12v cigarette lighter while the engine is running? How long does it take to charge?

    • Yeah this is actually very well suited to running fridges, 12v ovens and lights. Being conservative 190AH should get you ~5 days of fridge run time with no charging.

      Charging you have a few main options, and you should ideally get lithium specific chargers -
      DCDC Charger - your cars own charging system, the alternator when it’s running, charging on the go.
      Solar - Lithium and Solar work very well but would take a large panel and a lot of sun to charge this (large) battery from flat to full.
      AC Mains - Easiest option, just get a mains charger with a lithium setting and charge as needed

      • Thanks ob, yes, all of that is correct!

        Lithium DC-DC is certainly preferred but it will run without one or off a lead acid one as well.

        • Have a 2nd vehicle 12V AGM battery set up in the rear of the vehicle that charges via a low voltage disconnect relay from the vehicle battery. The circuit has a 60amp fuse and seems to charge at about 30amps max. How would this 12V LiFePO4 unit behave in this situation? Would the current inrush be to great when the relay turns on at 13.4V with the low internal resistance? High current DC-DC chargers are expensive.

          • @ocular: This is quite a contentious issue, some people think that you absolutely necessary to have a DC-DC converter, others see them as optional.

            Do you know these internal resistances:

            Of the starter battery
            Of the circuit connecting to the secondary battery

            Then me can try and calculate the current flow.

    • @MEnergy, related question - can any of the accessory ports be swapped over to Engel plugs etc by the user?

      • You could change or modify it in any way you wanted if you know how, but that would probably void the warranty.

        Edit: make an adaptor

      • Sorry, no, you can't. It's not just a voided warranty issue either.
        If you open the lid, you won't actually see a whole lot. As the battery is designed to go into cars, it has rubber adhesive holding the components down so that they don't move and get damaged.

        If you have any specific requirements and are happy to wait a few months, please let me know and I'll see if I can get it in the next order, without making too many changes.

        • -1

          This gives me concerns regards to serviceability and right to repair.
          Whilst right to repair isn't law yet let's focus on serviceability.
          Are you saying this is constructed in such a way that if down the road someone needed to replace a faulty sub component it's not easily accessible?

          • +2

            @virtual81: Right to repair applies to only certain classes of products. It's pretty unlikely batteries would be covered.

            • @0jay: 'Right to repair' has not been passed in law yet, not has any decisions been made on what is covered.

              Additionally this is not just a battery, but a group of components forming a system.

              It's quite possible one of the chargers or power supplies could fail and it would be good sense to be able to replace it.

          • +1

            @virtual81: It's not that you can't change it, but you do have to cut through the rubber adhesive. I've cut it on other batteries but not on one of these ones. I'd say that very roughly it would add between 10 and 30 minutes to the job, depending on your level of experience.

            So I wouldn't say it's easily accessible, but it's certainly accessible. All in all, I'd say it's easier than replacing many mobile phone components.

            • @MEnergy: This is a bit of a backflip from the previous message saying it can't be done, but the information is welcome.

              I have not problem with sensibly used adhesives, but potted products are terrible to work with.

              The attitude of throwing things away when they cease to work or be useful has to end, it's not sustainable.

              • @virtual81: Well, yes, it's not that it can't be done, but doing so in the first 5 years of ownership will obviously void your warranty, so I'd definitely discourage it.
                After that (or if you don't care about the warranty), there's no reason not to do it, if you're confident in what you're doing.

                So perhaps my initial response should have been "you shouldn't" instead of "you can't".

          • +1

            @virtual81: Should the focus be serviceability or durability first?
            Using adhesives to reinforce electronics has a long history and is proven to increase durability and hence service life.

            • @NDaveo: Why not both?

              Nothing is more durable than something that can have it's life extended with maintenance and repair.

              Also there is not real evidence that adhesives are superior to a well designed product, only that they are durable enough to last until something is replaced.

  • +1

    I already have a battery box with inputs and outputs etc. - do you sell these just as a plain battery to drop in?

    • Sorry, we don't. If we ever do get them in, I'll let you know, but I'm not sure if we will.

      If you were to get this one, you'd likely save a fair bit of space compared to the battery box you have (I assume).

      • +1

        This is a market. I would consider a replacement for the AGM in my 4wd, but it's wired in via terminals. The box is added weight and features I don't want or need.

        • Fair enough, as I said, it's not necessarily for everyone.
          There isn't a huge amount of weight these accessories add, certainly below 1kg.

  • What's the usable Ah between 10 and 14.6v?
    Do any/many 12v appliances run properly on 10-11v?

    • As I much prefer to under promise and over deliver rather than the opposite, I say that it's 190Ah between 14.6V and 10V (though it's actually more than that).

      All 12V applications that work on a lead acid battery will work for the voltage range (meaning all of them).

      • Does the bms output a constant 12v, or does it have a regulator for that? Or does the voltage go up and down with the SOC? I just can't see being able to use 10-11v on appliances designed for 12v lead.

        • No, it will output between say 13.8V (even though you charge at 14.6V, the voltage settles down a little) and 10V.
          Fairly similar to the lead acid battery voltage range.
          The higher the SOC, the higher the voltage, like with all batteries.
          Unfortunately I can't post a chart comparing the discharge curve of lead acid and LiFePO4.
          For all intents and purposes, it really doesn't matter much for the end user though and LiFePO4 has the flattest curve out of any chemistry that I'm aware of.

          • @MEnergy: Which is all irrelevant when "my battery has 20% charge left" and the fridge cuts out overnight because it can't run on 10.8v

            • +1

              @PepePepeson: At 10.8V, you'd have under 5% capacity remaining, but if you have equipment that cuts out at a certain voltage, I concede your point.
              That's where the flat curve of LiFePO4 (except at the two ends of the curve) is actually better suited than lead acid.

              • @MEnergy: OK, that makes sense then, thanks for explaining so I could understand.

      • FYI - your twitter link is just a generic Twitter/Home link

        • Thank you!
          Will have gave that fixed!

  • Hi MEenergy

    I have reviewed 11 of these systems, and each one fails when the battery is low. The BMS shuts off at 10v, and no longer presents a voltage for the solar charger to initiate the recharge. If you are stuck in the bush with a flat battery it is impossible to bring up the voltage. Can you confirm or provide test results for this scenario.

    Also, many systems run at 24v or 48v for ofgrid. Your statement that you can't place these in series seems unusual as most others allow this. How would you support a 24volt system ?

    • Sorry, but that may be your MPPT or PWM then and not the battery.
      I tested it with a cheap and nasty MPPT and it worked perfectly fine to wake the BMS and charge the battery.

      I know that other vendors say that you can connect them in series, it's never an ideal solution as you can't balance cells in battery A with cells in battery B.
      If you need 24V or 48V or any other voltage, you should use a battery of that voltage.
      While we don't currently stock 24V or 48V batteries, they can easily be built using the cells we sell (you'll also need a BMS).
      Alternatively, we do offer customised battery solutions and have supplied those to customers in the past.

    • +1

      As the poster responded this is your chargers problem this is your systems problem.From memory both redarc and enedrive require a voltage to start charging. Chargers like those made by Victron are able to activate batteries.
      The best option for your system would be integrating a battery protect which you could set a “low voltage disconnect” above the battery low voltage protection. You shouldn’t have to rely on the batteries protection system as if you run your batteries to flat then leave them in discharged state for to long you will destroy the chemistry.
      Also not “most batteries” allow series connections, it depends on the Fets used in the bsm and this appear to be a 12v power station than a battery. I can’t see someone using these power packs for 24v or higher as there is no purpose for them having the superfluous 12v ports, usb chargers etc.

      Looks like a reasonable price for a 12v lifepo4 system when you compare it to some of the other battery only pricing.

      • I had the same problem with the redarc BMS.. a very expensive supposed top end charger. Lithium battery went flat and BMS cut off battery due to van being in unplanned storage thanks to covid.

        I had to by another cheap charger to recover the battery..

        But..

        Some new Lithium batteries have a low voltage override button on the BMS. Press the butting when the charger is connected and it overrides the low voltage on the BMS so the battery can charge again..

        That would be a very handy option on any lithium battery or BMS

  • question for the ozbargainers that know about this stuff.

    how does this compare to enerdrive batteries?

    • Enerdrive make good gear.. but the cost reflects that .

      Also the new enerdrive batteries have the BMS low voltage override so it is easier to recover them if they have accidentally gone low voltage and the low voltage cutoff has cut in

      All Lithium battery BMSs should have a similar feature as it saves you from being stranded …

      https://youtu.be/pmSmpf6tFPc

  • Are you able to please share some indicative charging times?

    • Charge time is entirely dependent on your charger.

    • It really depends on your change current.
      It can be fully charged in less than an hour, but ideally in between two to five hours.

      • You sell chargers that'll fill a 200ah battery in 2hrs? How much?

        • Sorry, we don't. I'm assuming you mean AC charger? There is a wide variety of chargers available, they start from around $250 for a modified server power supply and go up in price.
          My recommendation would probably be to get maybe a 30A Victron charger instead, if this isn't too slow for you.

          • @MEnergy: How do you fill a 200ah battery in 2hrs?

  • +1

    What does the 5-year warranty cover? Let say the battery has been cycled 5000 times in the first year and no longer hold charge, will you replace the battery? Do you charge labour?

    • +1

      As long as it's 2000 cycles 100% DoD, 3500 cycles 80% DoD or 6500 cycles 50% DoD, or less, it would be under warranty (as long as used in an appropriate manner obviously).
      No labour, but you need to get it back to base.

  • Since parallel seems to be also discouraged is it safe to say these aren't suitable for 12v off grid setup where you want more than 200ah?

    • If you know what you're doing, they can be paralleled, but yes it's not really encouraged.
      For off grid, generally, 48V is preferable due to the cost of cabling, but either way, depending on your desired capacity, you can build a battery from the raw cells we sell and a BMS. It's fairly simple to do, but I know it's not for everyone.
      If it's of a larger size, we're always happy to talk to you about a customised solution.

      • Yes, I'm aware of the argument for 48v for cable and distance etc.but, to avoid legal complications, many go 12v (especially mobile) as you can wire that yourself legally.

  • Looks like a great product, almost tempted to pull the trigger, quick question first, does it have low temp disconnect?

    • Yes, it does! Both for charging and discharging. Charging is set to 0°C and discharging is set to -20°C. These can be changed, but please do not allow charging below freezing!

      • Thankyou…Ordered

  • +1

    Fantastic to see a 5 year warranty on a product.

  • +1

    Great to see a competitive well thought out product on the market with ongoing local (Australian) support. Though if you are not matching/checking cells prior to installation and no QR codes with each cell data are provided by manufacturer then the end user is receiving B grade cells.
    How many unpredictable cell failures have you had from these units to date? I see that you have not cut corners with the Daly BMS with it rated at 250A and bluetooth allows observation of cell voltage and customisation. A BMS that allows individual cell voltage observation can predict problems that may arise. Having an active balancer incorporated will hopefully keep the cell voltages equal, but I would think the addon active balancer doesnt show up in the monitoring app? Therefore a poor performing cell (or connection problem) may not show up initially as it is masked by the balancer. These 12V LIFePO4 units are pushed as 12V Pb acid replacements but the charging voltage end point needs to be accurately controlled - ideally 14.0V pushes each cell to 3.5V ( a safe full charge end point for each cell). But adding up the cost of 4 x 200Ahr Lishen cells available here in Oz + Daly BMS 250A BT + Active Balancer + Box/connectors there is not a lot of margin in this unit. What is the quiesent current draw for this setup when stored?
    Suggestions to improve would be a separate LV disconnect at level above BMS cutoff and integrated active balancer that can be monitored and adjusted via BT app. (havn't seen a 4S unit yet and of course likely extra $$) . All said from the perspective of keen LiFePO4 DIYer/ Offgridder

    • Thank you. Please see a picture here of the cells following laser welding. You can see that there are QR codes on each cell, though I do not have a record of all QR codes.
      https://ibb.co/hZBhPHp
      No failures yet, but to be fair, there is only a reasonably small number out there now. However I have been selling the same raw cells for a year and a half. In this time I've had one single failure, but that was when a customer (against recommendations) installed the cells against a metal rail. The rail wore through the thin insulation (he did not use anything besides the blue plastic film) and it shorted out the cells.

      You're correct that the cell balancer doesn't show in the BMS app, but if you do a 1C discharge (or even 0.5C) you would spot a bad cell fairly quickly.

      You're also correct about there not being a massive margin in this. We've priced it aggressively for now, but as I mentioned, we're looking at increasing this price in the future.

      I don't know what the quiescent current is off the top of my head, but I know it's low as it's just a combination of the BMS and the active balancer while not balancing (assuming you've switched off the USB and the voltmeter). If it's important to you, I can certainly look it up for you though, please let me know.

      Thanks very much for your suggestions, constructive feedback/criticism is always welcome! But yes, I don't think we'll get the active balancer controlled via Bluetooth any time soon. Though what would be fairly simple is to be able to switch it off with a pushbutton switch for future models.

      • -1

        Be good to know how you fill a 200ah battery in a couple of hours…

        • There are a few ways:
          * While not common, 100A AC chargers do exist
          * You can run it directly of a 100A+ alternator
          * You can run it off a 100A MPPT

          • -1

            @MEnergy: Directly off an alternator? That's living dangerously, no?

  • https://ibb.co/hZBhPHp
    Nice to see laser welded bus bars with a stress bend in the bar. Clever way to minimise terminal connection problems.

  • I purchased one of these and after using it for a few days I must say they are really good quality and ran everything I threw at it. Ruben was an absolute pleasure to deal with, really prompt responses. I'll probably look at buying the 100 Ah slimline battery next year

  • Is there any fuse protection built into these? If something connected to one of the cigarette lighter sockets for example shorts is this thing going to catch fire?

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