Want to put a stop to unwanted door to door salespeople? Well the ACCC has produced this sticker to help you avoid unwanted door to door selling.
This is what the sticker looks like: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=1070453&nod…
Simply click "Add to shopping basket", then click on "complete your order", then fill in some details, then (hopefully) put an end to unwated door to door salespeople.
Hopefully now that the ACCC is cracking down on this things may change. They say companies are obliged to pay attention to this sign. You can listen to the interview here: http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mitchell-blog/accc-cracking…
"obliged to pay attention to" is different to "illegal"; although Della Richards in the interview you linked does say the new Energy Law (?) will make it illegal.
A lot of them claim to be representatives of the government, or sent by them (they want to see you bill to make sure you're not being "overcharged" and it turns out you always are). Then because of that you listen to what they have to say, and you later find out they're just from a power company. It appears there are savings on paper, but hidden charges making it even more expensive than what you had. It's very dishonest.
It's almost always Indian salesmen. I'm not picking on Indian people, just stating a fact.
If they claim to be government officials, they will justify that they are not salesmen and therefore can ignore your sticker.
The sales people aren't from an energy company at all. They are outsourced to marketing companies in the city which send people out to do the job, they know absolutely nothing about energy companies and savings you could make by switching, they are just trying to sell their product/service cause they work entirely for commission.
"It's almost always Indian salesmen. I'm not picking on Indian people, just stating a fact."
Why are you stating that fact? What does it add? What if that fact is only true in your area or experience? And no, I'm not even Indian. It just unnecessarily puts a group of people in a negative light.
A fact is a fact, there doesn't need to be a reason. And it's not just my area. Other people report the same. They like to take up certain types of jobs, d2d, call centers, taxi driving, security are popular with them. There's nothing wrong with that, but nothing wrong with me pointing it out either.
Some people can't accept the truth. It is what it is…
Rather than "liking" the jobs, I think it's more a case that others don't like/want to do those those jobs for the wage/conditions so the new wave of students/migrants (currently Indians) fill the gaps since the employers need someone. I'm sure they'd rather do other jobs with less pressure to sell and less opportunity for abuse if they had the chance.
Edit: Meant to reply to lostn's comment above
Oh, you were just stating a random fact without reason. Why'd you choose that one? Here's another: most of the salesmen have heads.
may be he got similar experience like mine. one thing that people doesn't like with this people, they talk too much bs and telling lie
if every door to door salesman i see is indian, and d2d salesmen are annoying and unwanted, then they in a negative light all by themselves. this goes for telemarketers aswell. will get negged for this for sure but its cos they will do the jobs no-one else will do. Its a hell of a lot cheaper to pay someone peanuts to knock on doors and get 2-3 customers a day than pay for advertising.
They are tought to tell bs and lie. I went to a job interview for 'great career opportunity in sales' and turned out to be a group interview for d2d salesmen. walked out after i confirmed through all the bullshit when i outright asked him if we were just d2d salesmen and there was no office jobs available, he confirmed and i left. They rang me up later and i said no not interested, the flipper they spun me was i wasnt selected to be a salesman.
Dream = shattered.
yeah, ig uess you need to pretty thick skinned to do it or be immune to all the negativity that is associated with the job. personally i couldnt do it
bs is bs, no matter my english is poor or not. i have told him / her that i am not interested and they are still talking and knocking my door again the next day. i can't stand when people talking bs.
a positive way to see this is that indian salesmen have great entrepreneurial spirit, attributing to their great success in small business
correct!!, they are paying the cany/chennay or what ever for $5/ hr, they don't get paid during their probational period. even you do late shift you get the same paid. how do i know about this? because I was talked with the real person that doing this thing from the owner to the person that working this stuff. great. homo homini lupus is happening in their community
hmm … salespeople I've had haven't been Indian. Caucasian/Euro and about 50% have been female.
Ages probably late 30s and above.
I have had the energy sales people at the door, claiming they weren't there to try and sell me onto a power plan :P
A few times I've seen these door knockers being ferried into neighbourhoods by the bus load. They're either students or are imported labour.
actually, most of them are backpackers being exploited for cheap labour.
from my experience the backpackers sell those mass produced paintings. it's usually indian people who door knock for power and telephone.
Ah I saw "backpackers" trying to claim they were selling paintings they'd made … The guy might have been of Indian descent but the girl with him looked to be Euro
I had one these stickers on my door for a while and no one knocks on it except a guy claiming he was from some energy company giving out free power saving adaptors. I told he it can't be that good to give free things to people. Must be a catch! He wanted to enter my home and I told him that I was not interested. I pointed my finger to the sticker and he told me that doesn't apply to him as he was not selling anything. I just said no and close my door. Unfortunately, few days ago, one annoying salesman from Tru Energy knocked on my door very loudly. He even peeped thru the glass on the door to see if there was anyone at home. I asked him what does he want? He started selling his product and I told him that I was not interested. Again, I pointed my finger to my door and said I have the "Do Not Knock" sticker. He told me there is nothing there. How can that be? I just saw the sticker 30mins ago when I came home. I guess he must be the one took it off. I told him that I am not interested, please go. He said "SHIT" to me and left! How rude! Should ban all kind of door to door sales. These sales should be limited in shopping centres and if people interested, they can stop and talk to them.
I hate these sales at the shopping centres, it is harder to get rid of them. They jump out in front of you when you have two arms full of shopping.
Or waiting at the pedestrian crossing, I tell them to go away, ignore them and they are still talking. I am tempted to run on to the road so I don't have to listen to them.
In that case, should get them open a shop. Sales talk is limited to people in the shop only. So those people interested, have to go in and talk to them.
That store would be closed down within days because of no-one ever walking in.
Hold your phone to your ear as you walk by them. They usually leave you alone.
Start talking in a weird/unknown language and/or act crazy. They will leave you alone.
Scream "HEEEELP!"… see how fast THEY run!
haha had this too.. had a sticker from last year from origin that says "do not knock - no salespeople".
The woman said "i'm not selling u anything", "i've got these free adapters", i'm like "no thanks they're useless", "who told u that?", "I just know". Thankfully I already read up on these things beforehand!
So I guess I need a "no free stuff" sticker "no free stuff where a financial incentive is involved" would be good - as they will try anything to get around these.
For instance I got a no junk mail sticker.. but I still get the newspaper with ads in it! JUNK to me.
I'm gonna get one of these to go with my other one, just so that they get the point :~)
i got these free power saving adaptars, they are really free i dont get why you refuse?
i got 2 and the brand i was given is rubbish. Have the tv on for 57min without changing channels or volume and it will assume you are out and turns off. Didnt even last one night before i pulled them out.
Someone offers you "emerald planet" say no. Some other brands can you change the timelimit or have no time limit i believe.
Mine are just as bad. The installer said these eco plugs are a government initiative. I'd say they scammed the government, giving us useless junk that people will unplug.
I pulled mine out too. I turned them down once, but a different guy came back while I was at work and my parents got talked into letting them in and installing them.
Utter waste of tax money.
Which ones are they? My mums place my bro got them put in, it's got these little green lights but when it's going to turn off it starts flashing green and we just press the button on the top. It's annOying when I'm trying to charge my phone but I just plug it somewhere else then or press the button on top of the little energy saving light thing!! (looks like a tiny mouse on side of tv that flashes green time to time)
I got 2 of them plugged into my TV's. With kids they work great. Kids some times leave the TV on and go and play with something else. So the TV get's turned off after one hour automatically. So I prefer to have them. However in my own bed room I have set it to turn off after 2 hours of no interactions. If you read the manual, you can set it to keep it on for the time you want. 1, 2, 3, 4 or 12 hours.
The whole idea of having this thing is to turn the power off when it's not in use.
Which ones are they? My mums place my bro got them put in, it's got these little green lights but when it's going to turn off it starts flashing green and we just press the button on the top. It's annOying when I'm trying to charge my phone but I just plug it somewhere else then or press the button on top of the little energy saving light thing!! (looks like a tiny mouse on side of tv that flashes green time to time)
I think mine are the same brand as yours. They automatically turn everything off after a while. The sensor is meant to detect if you are there, and if you're not it's meant to turn it off, but the sensor is useless and must have difficulty recognizing humans.
i've been that experience before, i say i am not interested, thank you, and he turn back and swear at me by saying "F$@# you" i chase him and almost knock him down and after that we have adult conversation and later on he say so sorry as he was walking down the street for 4 hour and no one even respect him and blablalbalbalblaalalblblalba.
LOL!
Yes they are quite keen, they won't accept no. The first one was a lady from Embertec and I had to close the door in her face.
The second one this guy had blue/white boxes, I had to slam the door in his face as he didn't understand what "No thank you, I am not interested, have a good day" means.
I think they also expect I will accept them because I have solar panels on my roof.. hence why they don't obey my "do not knock" signs and get all eager when I answer the door.
Be great if the ACCC actually stopped the dodgy corporates instead of making stickers. I guess their reputation as a toothless tiger is proven time and time again.
Is it a bargain:)
Indeed ：-）
It is a bargain.
thank you.
This sticker is meant to say to D2D sales that there could be children alone or able to answer door by themselves so it is illegal for them to be knocking on the door and you have the right to call police if they do (apparently as I have been told this
Ah, nope - it is not illegal to knock on someone's door. You can call the police but all you are going to do is annoy the cops that come out.
EDIT: Exactly right, Davo1111.
I think you misunderstood what I meant, if you read again I said for D2D (door to door) sales people to knock on the door (if that sign is on your door) it is illegal. I dont mean for people in general, just like workplaces have rules and regulations this one for the door to door sales people :D
It's still very unlikely to be found as "illegal". In Queensland, the relevant crime of trespass is defined in s 11(1) of the Summary Offences Act: "A person must not unlawfully enter, or remain in, a dwelling or the yard for a dwelling." This is generally joined with a burglary charge or whatnot.
You are going to struggle to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a door to door salesman knocking on your door is "unlawful" per that provision - even if you do have the ACCC's sticker on your door. If you are talking about suing someone for trespass (also unlikely to be successful in the circumstances) then that is still not illegal.
Lol I'm not discussing suing anybody or for charges to be laid, rather just the point that you can put in a complaint about that business as you could if something was not lawfully correct like maybe something to rude or racist people serving you in a store. Well maybe not as serious but I'm guessing by the number of people on this "bargain" it is as serious because they see it as a breech of their privacy. Hey no need to shoot the messenger by trying to recite criminal laws, these are business laws and there are places to also make complaints about them. I was just told these by my local council as I have 3 little kids and my son had learnt how to open the door thinking everytime it's his dad (he was only 3yrs)
I just take issue with people "citing" stuffy that is misleading or plain wrong. What are "business laws"? If you mean the Australian Consumer Law then that only tells us that door to door salesman cannot come to your house on Sundays, before 9am or after 6pm on weekdays or before 9am or after 5pm on Saturdays. Otherwise there are no "business laws" regulating door to door sales. And yes there is a place to make a complaint - the ACCC - which is an independent government authority, not a lawmaking body. Councillors aren't a great source of law either, they tend to be… idiots.
" they tend to be… idiots." ROFL for that one.
@johnno07
"Otherwise there are no "business laws" regulating door to door sales."
There ARE laws which can be applied to companies engaging in door to door sales. Have a look at the almost limitless scope of ASIC powers. The trick is whether ASIC get interested in to investigate.
The times they start investigating things like this is once they start advertising certain things and making it clear to people and the media about it, then obviously most cases they do act on complaints because they can fine companies for things like this when they are not teaching their employees these things. I didnt think people came on ozbargain for free legal advice and I don't think anyone is thinking I am a lawyer but you are talking about criminal law when this obviously has nothing to do with it when I simply made a comment that I was told from legal services at local council
True, ATD. Trust me, Alienzzz - no-one is thinking you're a lawyer.
Our taxes at work! I wonder how many hundreds of thousands were spent on this program which resulted in these stickers
I see some merit in this campaign. These door to door scum target the elderly, disabled, etc,etc. Think of getting one for your parents/grand pasrents so they don't have to deal with this scum and get tricked into signing contracts that they really don't understand or that's going to end up costing them $$$$$.
For what it's worth I highly doubt this will stop 100% of D2D salesman. I've already had 'do not knock' stickers on my door for months (not "official" ACCC ones).
Just the other day I had some idiot D2D acting like a council worker, mumbling about having to cut down trees (literally mumbling, like I could barely understand every 3rd word). Only when I was like "fine, whatever" did he mention he's from a private company and it's a paid service. Pointed to the sticker and slammed the door.
That said, with this sticker from a legal authority, it would be interesting to see if contracts signed or sales made while this sticker is displayed are legally binding. Wouldn't mind seeing a court challenge for it. Order 4 of these stickers for me and my family (yes you can order multiple, please don't abuse it people).
good point, well im getting my damn moneys worth then!
It would be a fraction of the money spent on offshore processing.
Our taxes will be at work if you keep drinking Coke and eating Red Rooster too. That'll cost far more than a few stickers for a legitimate cause!
I supported the ACCC and all I got was this lousy sticker.
Some energy companies have offered similar stickers to their customers for free. An example of a generous, community-minded spirit? Actually, not quite as altruistic as it may seem. Maybe they're simply trying to put a stop to their competitor's door-to-door salespersons? ;-)
Excellent, hate the door knocking on a Saturday afternoon, got 2 one for my mum whos 75 with bad health, and is always jumping up to the door from some power or phone sales dude. Now i have just got to buy her a whistle for those annoying phone calls that dont abid by the do not call register to blow in there ear.
i need another sticker to put on my homephone to stop the telesale and 1 more on my iphone to stop thd premium sms. Damn..which the ACCC made them.
lol
-orders 10 to see if i can order more than 1-
SUCCESS!
Didn't you hear? We have a Do Not Call register! What better way to stop all those pesky marketing phone calls* by putting your name and number and a huge list provided to phone marketers on a regular basis!
*Except for calls from surveys, charities, political parties, educational institutions, government bodies, religious organisations or telemarketing. Oh, and those calls from "Windows Support" who totally want to get rid of the "Windows viruses" on your Mac OS or Linux PC.
I'm on the register and still get weird calls from 'Windows Service' people, I just say I have a Mac and hang up lol.
Tell 'em you work for Microsoft as well.
They freak out when you do that.
I just don't have a land line.
*Except for calls from surveys, charities, political parties, educational institutions, government bodies, religious organisations or telemarketing.
excludes all the most annoying ones doesn't it?
Do these stickers work for Johova's Witnesses?
Nope, I have a similar do not knock sign up and they still knock.
It's funny because one time they claimed that they're "not selling anything" but they kinda are…
Yep they still knock.
Just tell them to go away and shut the door.
Yikes, what do you think they are selling?
I don't understand the hatred for D2D salespeople. Most of them are offering legitimate services/representing legitimate causes. This is the way that business works. If you're not interested in what they're selling, just tell them to go away. I've never had a problem with them. I don't even feel bad about turning back charities.
I don't understand the hatred for D2D salespeople.
It's called trespass…
I'm pretty sure it's not trespassing. If it was illegal, why would it be a regulated practice?
i lived in the unit, someone need to press the intercom, some of my neighbour allow this sales person enter the building, then they start knocking the door on other unit. i think this is trespassing, as that person should be able to press the intercom but not knocking door on other unit. if they want, that person should going down and press another intercom.
I'm no legal expert, but I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to knock on someone's door. If you asked them to leave, they would.
Exactly right, Explosions_Hurt. All is dandy until you ask them to leave. If they don't leave - then you can start talking trespass.
Yeh, that's what I thought.
the issue now is the security of the occupant of the house. we can't see them as they are back of the door, to open the door is risking the occupant of the house. how do you know if that person is genuine sales person, is there any guarantee that sales person won't harm the occupant of the house. the company, who sending this sales person should think this in the first place, they can not wait till bad thing happen then stop it.
Good to see we have a lawler on OzBargain!
Can enter land if there is consent, which can include what is known as an 'implied licence', otherwise entry will be unlawful (trespass).
Any implied licence can be revoked - for example a sign at the front which says "bugger off - don't enter this site".
Kura v State of NSW (2008) - High Court of Australia (while explaining principles from an earlier HCA case, namely Halliday v Neville (1984)):
"… if path or driveway leading to the entrance of a suburban dwelling-house is left unobstructed, with any entrance gate unlocked, and without indication by notice or otherwise that entry by visitors or some class of visitors is forbidden, the law will imply a licence in favour of any member of the public to go on that path or driveway for any legitimate purpose that in itself involves no interference with the occupier's possession or injury to the personal property of the occupier, or the occupier's guests".
Almost certainly applies Australia-wide (Common Law - ie judge-made law).
Upshot:
Not usually trespass, unless there is something that revokes the implied licence (like a sign).
ACCC sticker could have gone further, essentially telling the D2D salesman to get off the property.
Of course you should seek your own independent legal advice before acting on my musings … i disclaim all liability.
"Of course you should seek your own independent legal advice before acting on my musings … i disclaim all liability."
Ohhh - you ruin my fun - to see the look on their face when I was going to tell the next guy on my property that a guy called FreckleNuts on ozbargain with a busty girl as his avatar told me they should go away!! ;-)
I have to say i was laughing when i wrote that bit…
In practice, there's not much you can do about D2D apart from encouraging them not to knock, which is why the ACCC sticker isn't that bad really.
Avatar is Christina Hendricks http://tiny.cc/thereisagod
Because they are uninvited and in my experience almost always agressive. The "legitimate services" exist and people know of them, if I wanted to change power companies, phone etc I could look it up myself. Telling them to go away is fine, but they are trained to stay on your doorstep and keep talking. I had one last weekend, I said no 3 times and she just kept on going. In the end only closing the door in her face got rid of her.
And thats not to mention their dodgy and often illegal practices of misrepresenting who they are with or what you are actually signing up for.
I live in an area with a lot of elderly people, so we get someone at least every 2 days selling one thing or another. And the amount of horror stories I've heard from (usually elderly) people who get scammed from door to door sellers makes me despise the whole d2d industry.
Those are fair points. I guess I'm talking about only my personal experiences. I can see how the elderly can be misled.
correct, they knock my house, told my partner that she is from my power company and would like to see my bill, and my partner refuse to allow her to see our house bill. it is privacy issue in the first place. i told my partner never ever allow similar people to see our bill.
if she is from my power company, why she can't access my bill. they are liar.
Plenty of us would prefer not to need to answer the door to an unknown person. There may be legitimate security concerns or perhaps we'd just prefer not to be interrupted in our daily life by some random.
I don't understand the hatred for D2D salespeople.
The dishonesty and tactics used.
Most of them are offering legitimate services/representing legitimate causes.
Most of mine are power/gas/phone companies. And they fall into the above.
If you're not interested in what they're selling, just tell them to go away. I've never had a problem with them. I don't even feel bad about turning back charities.
All of mine are very persistent and don't take no for an answer. You tell them not interested and they continue talking, ignoring you as if you never said anything, until you say yes.
If they ask to see my bill, I tell them the bill payer is out of town.
what lostn said
here's some more
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1491128
in summary, finding companies later claim the salesperson supplied the wrong figures
pressure sales tactics
lying about who they are and what they are doing so you won't just close the door in their face
(eg private tree cutters claiming they are there from the council, gas and electricity people trying to represent that they are there on behalf of your power company)
lying about what they are selling
(see the mass produced paintings being palmed off as originals painted by backpackers who are just trying to raise a bit of spending money)
reputations for using deceit and forgery to achieve sales (not verified … I was with the parents when they wanted to watch some Current Affairs type program … there was something about sales people looking at forms, getting identifying details, then forging signatures to claim that the person agreed to swap across)
Ordered one.
Thanks ;)
And if it's Jehovah's Witness knocking, I tell them pretty rudely to go away and never return. Even they get the idea.
Next time why don't you politely ask them to go away - you will get the same result without being obnoxious.
Because they're too damn tenacious. you gotta be firm ( and sometimes a little rude) with them.
If you mean politely ask door knockers in general, to go away, I've tried that and the ones I encountered ignored that.
I don't bother getting rude though. I just shut the door.
If you mean Jehovah's Witness I have no idea
If I understand correctly, Jehovah's Witnesses are financed TOTALLY by voluntary donations, (not that they have ever come to the my door asking for money, and I've had a few chats with them over the years) and the guys and gals doing the knocking are doing so completely voluntarily also. They seem to genuinely want to help people where they can, and are quite generous with their own time & resources.
A far cry from the power companies and phone companies, and even other religious charities/organisations who regularly have an annual 'collection' day for money.
Well said nortyjak. Explosions_hurt, wouldn't hurt to be a human once and awhile would it?
" then (hopefully) put an end to unwated door to door salespeople." i have this for 2years now and those sales people still knocks!!! i have 2 on the door one on each side CLEARLY VISIBLE. those bastards just ignores and knocks and say "we just need a few minutes of your time.." this n that.. when they do that i just point at the sign n close the door.. hahahaha