Saw a post on reddit yesterday and wanted to create a poll similar to the post. Which brand do you think has the better fuel quality if we ignore the price?
Who Has The Better Fuel Quality?
paranoidguy on 13/06/2023 - 09:24
Last edited 13/06/2023 - 09:25
Last edited 13/06/2023 - 09:25
Poll Options
- 11AMPOL
- 2EG AMPOL
- 717-Eleven
- 16Costco
- 21Shell
- 212BP
- 10Metro
- 4Speedway
- 9United
Comments
Would love to have that much karma. Haha
….so so sad. reddit karma is worth less than sfa. lol!
Just want some karma that atleast I can post something
@paranoidguy: just keep commenting on peoples post, didnt take long for me to get enough karma to post something
do you always check new post in OzB against Reddit and announce it out there if it's the same?
Across all those stations, they are getting their fuel from two domestic oil refineries.
Ampol's facility in Brisbane and Viva Energy's refinery in Brisbane.it's the same stuff, in the end, the local dodgy station you get your fuel from, maybe spiking it with some extra ethanol or some other additive that will just burn off in your engine.
Yeah, pull the other one- next thing you'll tell us is that there isn't any difference between brands of bottled water!
;)
But gold HDMI cables still produce a better picture quality, right?
Unless if its Mooonssterrrr Cables!
Aren't they all just tap water?
/ducks
True, but each company adds their own additives/detergents.
I know petrol heads swear by either BP or Shell's premium (can't remember which one) to get a slight bump in power on the dyno.
ETA it's BP98 that has the best fuel for tuned cars.
I would like to think I am a bit of a petrol head and I don't think any of that matters.
If it actually made an impact to the power you get, the octane rating would be different. Furthermore you'd need to retune the car for each type of fuel to actually benefit from an increase in octane.
If you really want to pay a premium to get some more power go for E85 and a tune to match, all the 98 is the same thing.
See comment by Seaeagles, they get slightly more kw as measured using a dyno with BP98.
This seems to be the general consensus among enthusiasts, but I could be interpreting their comments incorrectly as I don't have a fancy car.
When I got my car dyno tuned I put in a full tank of 7eleven as that's what I fill up with most often (using fuel lock). The issue would be if you got a car tuned for BP then filled up with lower quality fuel although most ECUs have good enough knock control anyway to cater for it (which I have unwillingly tested when in the middle of nowhere that only had 95).
I'm not going to notice a few kw when driving around and I don't enter dyno comps so I don't think it is worth paying extra for BP.
The main thing I try to do is only fill up at stations that get lots of cars through so I know the petrol is fresh because it does decrease in quality the older it is.
a bit like vitamins marketing scam, mostly placebo effect
And it seems they do the opposite of promoting health.
Depends on what your engine is tuned to…
E85 would get you the highest dyno results if you tuned for it.
It is true that Australia has only 2 refineries now and that too saved by Govt grants and funds, but it’s not true that all retailers are getting their fuel from those 2.
All those who suspended their refineries in Australia have converted them to import points but they setup their refineries in Singapore and importing from there.
Few months ago I was interviewing for a role at Ampol did some search as part of preparation and to understand the future of company in the world of EV.
Across all those stations, they are getting their fuel from two domestic oil refineries.
Ampol's facility in Brisbane and Viva Energy's refinery in Brisbane.Sounds like a strategic vulnerability.
I'm sorry, but that is factually very incorrect.
AU consumed 57.2B litres of refined petroleum products in 2022, of which 14.9B litres were locally refined. That's only 26% of local consumption produced by local refineries. So 74% of fuel is imported and there are at least 10 different companies with import terminals, and many more with bulk storage for either own use or resale.
So it really isn't the same fuel sold at all stations. And yes, there are also the different additives in premium fuels that others mentioned.
It is all the same!
Exactly, why is this not a poll option?
Came here to say this ^
Ships come in from Singapore.
Same, same.I feel BP has the better quality fuel due to their colour scheme… and their ads.
Absolutely. If there was a BP and a Shell side by side with the same price I would buy from BP every day as I like their colour scheme more.
WHAT COLOURSCHEME?
In that case I'll take Sinclair. The dinosaur is cute and it reassures me of where the petrol comes from.
Yeah that's the only reasoning I can come up with, perceived quality based on brand image.
Personally I'm never going to forget the 2010 BP Deepwater Horizon spill and so only use BP if there is no alternative
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/how-is-wi…That was a giant blackwash.
Mitigated not only by a cynical Greenwash, but by BP Australia's Green and Gold wash, too.
Yep, BP was a huge Obama campaign sponsor hence no fines or anything
WHAT ADS?
I feel BP has the better quality
Did you know that BP stands for Better Petrol? :-)
Burn and Pollute
BP gave us the Gulf of Mexico disaster.
by jesster79 May 17, 2010
many car enthusiasts only pump BP98
i've even seen sales listings on fb marketplace stating sth along the lines of : "only been fueled with BP98"
A lot of car enthusiasts are morons though. Having been part of a few car social media groups, I can confirm that a lot of guys who talk like they know the most, are full of shit.
social media groups
There’s your problem…
i wonder what car do you drive and how engaged and active you are in the car scene lol. if you're the type that just "lurks" and watch from afar, i'm sorry to say you are certainly not qualified to judge. But if you happen to be active in toxic car communities, i think that's a reflection of you, your character and the type of car you drive.
car community is extremely diverse with different type of characters - ranging from track junkies, show queens, NPCs, trash talkers etc… There's something for everyone.
i go on cruises and car meets very regularly, most people are really nice. I've only ever met a guy like that IRL, and that's only because he's running a car modding business and that's his way of promoting his brand.
It's the colour scheme - ads won't do anything … are you crazy?
All these people who ‘upvoted’ BP as the ‘best’, really? Wake up! They are no different to each other.But, but my mechanic said to use it! It’s all smoke & mirrors from these oil companies.Who do I use? Mobil @ present because they have the cheapest price in my area, otherwise it could be another brand.
It's called the power of advertising
No power involved.
It's just gullible ppl gobbling up BS like baleen whales with the munchies
Or whales gobbling up BP in the Gulf of Mexico.
@johnno07: It's BPs long game. Soon they'll be mining whales for TWO types of oil. Whale and hydrocarbon based.
And they get to expand drilling in the dead zone they created@Protractor: If we just mined all the whales for their oil, it wouldn't matter we spilled a bunch of a different oil in the ocean would it? BP knows what's up.
@johnno07: BP, Brain Power.
; )
Seriously
The problem with oil spills is they create dead zones that are (may as well be) permanently dead. So the floor of the ocean in the Gulf will be fecked.Forever. So that has implications beyond the clean up. It's not even a bandaid. Companies should lose licenses to operate in that space, when this shit happens.BP (if I recall) was one of the early adopters of allying (using as a morality shield) with not for profits to milk the good corporate reputation factor.
BP? Broken Promise?
BP stations tend to have the best candy, that's why I voted for it.
Candy? They’re called lollies in Australia.
Difference in fuel? No. You’re correct it comes from the same sources.
Difference in how often they clean out the tanks? Difference in the additives including ethanol?
Difference in supply chain to the station (including the cleanliness of the tanks on the trucks themselves)?There are differences here that can lead to damage to the car. Hence mechanic recommending one above the other - they see the result of the damage.
Even ethically - are there difference in company policies (eg targeting net zero)?
Mate most of the tanks and facilities are provided by the same companies, as is the transport. Ethically do you think any of these fuel companies give a damn? If they did, they would be in a different industry
Even if they started out with identical equipment (they don’t) and got identical fuel (again, they don’t) they’d still have different maintenance routines and operating procedures which do have an impact on purity of the product delivered to your vehicle.
Moronic to call them morally bankrupt when you use their products.
I'm no lab that analyses fuel…. but I once bought E10 from some Speedway or Metro fuel station down the road and took a read with my OBD2 reader. My car's flex fuel sensor said it had 9% ethanol content. So I guess fuel's okay to buy from the servo down the road?
How accurate is that sensor though? I think your car wouldn't change AFR within a 5% window or so.
I believe E10 is "up to 10%" ethanol isn't it?
2 sources. A couple of OZ refineries we are using taxpayers money to keep open so that the Army etc are not completely f@ked if the stuff from the other source - Singapore gets stopped for more then a week or so.
2 ways of looking at it I suppose:
Buy from OZ refinery source because you’ve been bent over to pay for it once, it was sort of enjoyable and you think paying again might make you feel it’s actually a relationship,
Or
Buy from Singapore source because the refinery is the newest and best able to maintain quality.Either way your car CGAS.
Personally I go the cheapest when it’s cheap…..
Costco - because it's the cheapest
Chopper is usually slightly cheaper, plus no membership fee.
BP has the best advertising, so people think it has the best fuel.
At least in Adelaide all stations get their fuel from the same source. The same tanks. The additives may differ between fuel brands, but if you check each company's claims they all claim to clean your engine and improve performance. They'll never specify what actually gets added in there however.
Good catch. Ads should be entertaining, not truthful.
It’s all close enough to the same that it doesn’t matter. This is right up there with ‘I only run 98 because more economy/power/smoothness’. It’s all marketing and suckers.
Poll needs “none” as an option.
Exception: dodgy old servos that are likely to have tanks in the worst condition and potentially have extra contaminants from their tanks.
I drive an old Camry and can tell a big difference when pumping 91 and 98. Car does feel smoother and and has the extra kick with 98.
Now I pump 98 in winter.
Placebo.
btw, the extra kick is from the cooler air temps in Winter. Try driving in the middle of the night in Winter for even more kick.
Explains why all the commodores and falcons are out at that time
Same thing in summer too. It's true for my case. Stop the downvote 🥲
4am is usually the coolest part of the dark time.
It's not placebo. It may depend on your car, but you can definitely notice a difference. The first time I put 98 in, I didn't expect anything. It was the only fuel available, so I chose it out of necessity. I noticed a difference, then became curious and researched it.
@ForkSnorter: A butt dyno is nowhere near accurate enough to measure the difference. Especially as it’s calibrated by the brain that gets confirmation bias from the marketing spiels. Then, the gains you make aren’t outweighed by the additional cost.
Where is your research source to confirm 98 performs better?
@Euphemistic: Like I said, I did not know there is any difference. I knew nothing about cars, and still know very little. It absolutely depends on your car. For example, if I use E10, my engine pings. This is not placebo. Some cars ping if you use E10. You can actually record the sound to confirm. Not everyone is dumb, unscientific and affected by placebo. I noticed a difference without knowing there could be one. If you don't notice a difference, you have not driven a car that responds differently.
@Euphemistic: Subaru. By the way, I'm not talking about fuel efficiency. I'm talking about the fact that the engine runs more smoothly, accelerates more easily, and sounds different.
@Euphemistic: If the ECU adapts to different octanes, it adjusts the fueling and the ignition and will give better performance. But only some/relatively advanced management systems do this. And it is unlikely to gain mileage or provide much bang for buck in other ways commensurate with the extra cost.
And it often takes 500km or more for the adaptations to bed in accurately, so the difference may only happen just before you fill with a second tank, so don't switch to and from, unless you religiously fill up with 91, then 98 at half empty, then 91 again, in order to burn at 95 octane. But switching 95 to 98 on a whim is a waste of time.
But if your car can benefit from it and you are happy to pau the premium, it can be good peace of mind.
Unless you can conduct an analysis and some real world tests to tell us for sure.
My trick is to buy a day or so after a servo has filled up so as not to pay for water (suspended in the fuel) and so it hasn't been absorbing water hygroscopically in the tank for a week. But this strategy can be flawed by many variables, especially price. Oh, and not to buy from dodgy retailers, they have been known to cut fuels with toluene, maybe even ethanol if they have found a way, which is mostly gone by the wayside since the government began subsidising its distribution directly to all those tragically addicted to petrochemical propulsion (us).
@resisting the urge: What analysis do you think needs to be done that hasn’t already been done? The octane literally changes the way the fuel combusts, it changes the parameters of the engine, it’s not far fetched that it could feel “smoother” in some cars. This is very well established. Many cars are built for lower octane and it probably won’t be noticed, but it could very well be on others, including older cars. My last car called for 98 minimum, why do you think that is? Because the manufacturer had a deal with BP? No, it’s to prevent engine knock.
@diss: it only makes a difference is your car is built for higher spec fuels. That’s why they specify a minimum. In a car suited to regular 91 there is very very little benefit in putting in 98, even less when you factor in the extra cost.
@Euphemistic: I didn’t say it’s worth the cost, I’m simply stating there IS a difference in how the fuel performs and higher octane is more resistant to engine knock. Then there’s whatever additives that may or may not make a difference. It’s not necessarily true at all that it will have no effect on cars tuned for 91 and especially not for this guy’s “old Camry”.
@diss: The reason for the options is two fold- raising output/efficiency, and reducing emissions.
Some manufacturers find it is cheaper to make an engine tuned to one octane alone. Others add octane flexibility to be more widely compatible.
What would be nice to know is, which fuel, over the longer term, is better in each multi-fuel vehicle, specifically:
- Performance
- Economy
- Emissions
- Overall efficiency benefit (City/Hwy/Flat-out) such that the difference in value can be compared to cost per litre, at the pump.
In any such analysis, vehicles that do not optimise for a particular octane can be set aside, as there is their owners have no choice at the bowser. They are simply subscribed to the fuel, efficiency and performance the manufacturer mandates.
@ForkSnorter: If your engine requires 98 then you should only run 98.
If your engine does not require 98, there will be no perceivable difference running 98. It's science.
It’s not placebo… there’s a reason different octane ratings exist and some cars aren’t supposed to be run on lower octane. Forced induction cars especially run better on 98, mine specifies 95 minimum. It helps prevent knock, it increases the compression ratio and power output very slightly. I definitely believe it could be noticeably smoother in an old Camry even though it won’t be appreciably quicker.
@diss: It’s it very hard to measure ‘noticeable’, especially when your confirmation bias says it costs more so it should feel better.
@Euphemistic: And exactly the same is true on your side of the matter, I bet you wouldn’t notice even if there was. However… we know about higher octane fuel’s tangible difference in combustion, which could very well have “noticeable” benefits depending on the car. So the blanket dismissal seems silly.
@diss: Oh for crying out loud. For one thing, this thread is meant to be about difference between brands (next to nothing) then this bit is about a dude putting 98 in a car absolutely not designed to take advantage of 98 - a Camry. Anyone who says their Camry runs better on 98 without proof from a dyno is talking out their butt and suffering from delusions from the marketing.
No one is disputing that 98 is better if the vehicle is designed for it, that’s why there’s recommended minimums.
@Euphemistic: Yes I know what this thread was originally about, thanks, but I’m responding specifically to the dismissive comments like yours in reply to someone saying their old Camry runs better on 98. It’s easy to repeat “proof please”… I think you’re talking out your butt more than they are. What do you want exactly? Why are you talking about dyno results? Power output is not the point here, it’s how it runs, but if you want proof of marginal power increase on higher octane fuel it’s only a Google search away. The compression ratio of a Camry is better suited to 95/98 than 91. I bet they’re right that it feels a bit smoother.
Again, the vehicle doesn’t have to be necessarily “designed” for 98 to benefit from things like increased knock resistance. Potentially additives too. Nobody is talking about cars tuned for 98.
@diss: Most people are talking out their butt when they tell you they can feel the difference between fuels. The only way to believe them is with measured evidence.
Ok, so some Camry will run better on premium but how do you quantify that when the human brain is far too susceptible to confirmation bias? That’s my problem. Soooo many opinions not backed up by hard facts. yes, I realise mine opinion is also not backed in hard fact, but I’ve run different fuels in my cars over the years and never noticed a significant difference between fuels - and yes, I can tell the difference in driving dynamics if there is something wrong or I’ve got a low pressure tyre etc.
Back on topic: fuel conpanies spend billions trying to get more business than their competitors, don’t you think that if any of them did have an advantage, the others would have bought some and copied it by now? It’s fairly regulated with minimum standards for fuel. They’ll do the maximum to convince us theirs is better will making minimum standard as cheat as possible.
@Euphemistic: No mate, YOU’RE talking out your butt for the sake of argument and I’m really not sure why. Sure “most people” couldn’t tell the difference and in most cars there wouldn’t be a tangible difference. That probably goes for whatever cars you’re referring to in your own anecdote… while dismissing someone else’s on the grounds that it’s impossible to tell and just someone’s biased opinion (lol). Do I need to point it out? We’re not talking about “most people” though, this is in response to one guy emphatically claiming that he can tell a difference in his particular car… but you know better? Now you say “ok, so some Camry will run better” but still feel the need to argue an unclear point? You acknowledged it might be true, and that was my point. There is no burden of proof on the claim that some engines run better on higher RON, and no, they don’t have to be tuned specifically for it because ”minimum” and ”ideal” are not necessarily the same thing. So you want the guy to go get whatever test you think proves it runs more smoothly before he shares his thoughts on the internet in the future?
There is no “back on topic”, this is how threads work, this is the topic. A strange way to spend your energy.
Camry even though it won’t be appreciably quicker.
Only if the Camry needs 98 and is knocking due to not using 98.
If your car isn't knocking on 91, then 98 isn't doing anything except educating you on the placebo effect.
Yep - Stick to servos on main roads, with relatively quick turnover.
Deliveries to quiet, backstreet servos can be weeks or even months apart. Lots of time for degradation or contamination.And at the top of the street, if possible. Less water infiltration into UG tanks
Why is it hard to accept that different circumstances have different results? We should never deal in absolutes
this is more who has the better marketing to convince people theirs is better
BP?
https://www.facebook.com/9NewsGoldCoast/videos/mixing-fuel-w…Don't be stupid, you are looking for a feeling marketing can give you rather than petrol quality.
I drive an old car and I'm actually more paranoid about underpouring fuel pumps, even though they're regulated and potentially audited.
There's this no franchise (or small franchise) service station near me that's always one of the cheapest, but one time the volume was significantly more than expected vs kilometres travelled so I've been suspicious of them since. But maybe the service station I normally fill up at fills up too quickly or has foamy fuel, triggering the nozzle's vacuum sensor sooner? Or their flowmeter overdispenses?
They are genuinely audited & if there is ever any complaint all the major chains have a procedure to get the NMI in to test the pump.
100% of the time I have ever had to deal with a complaint the pump tested within spec or was slightly over dispensing. The fines are too big to risk an under-dispense fault.
Customers that flip shit about under dispensing are always insufferable bellends. "I put 22L in this 20L drum I want a refund!" Yeah you filled it above the top marker or its a 10 year old drum that swells out at the sides.
"I got 100kms less distance on a tank from here something is wrong with your pumps!" Your air sensor is faulty & you are running rich, or you had a lead foot/went on a weekend trip up a mountain.
In 2021 NMI reported that 5% of pumps were ripping customers
https://www.9news.com.au/national/petrol-prices-australians-…
Seconding this.
Real answer is probably Saudi Arabia
retailers just copy the base crude oil formula you know so yeah fuel from origin country is best
Based on what?
To my knowledge the actual sampling (octane,cleanliness,water content etc) the fed govt used to do has wound down or is minuscule. And maybe it's all coming from the same depots wearing a different badge on the truck?
The big chains pull from the same depot/have their own fuel dumps. The smaller independents will actually draw from whatever is cheaper, you may get different fuel week to week.
So you're not the person who posted it on Reddit haha (I also saw that post)