Tesla, just dropped the price of an inventory Model 3 even lower, might be a good bargain to get before the:
stamp duty rebate https://www.revenue.nsw.gov.au/grants-schemes/electric-vehic…
and 3k ev grant ends: https://www.revenue.nsw.gov.au/grants-schemes/electric-vehic…
at the end of this year.
With the refresh model 3 2024 loosing the gear stalk and blinker stalk, this could become a high yield investment ;D
They called "trade-in" :D
But those quotes for my used car and much better than tesla. I haven't tried to negotiate price of new car at all.
You can't negotiate new car's price with tesla, and they buy your car for like ~33% less then others. It's a red flag for me. Plus sale-man keep lying one after another. Like the new 3 will be delay if you place your order now, the new y won't come out in US until 2027 and won't be in Australia until 2028, the new S and X are gone from Australia "FOREVER", X to Y is an upgrade, bla bla bla. I don't see I'll be buying any tesla soon.
PS: Finally ended up with BMW iX, and feel like my 2018 tesla X is trash.
This is like saying I got a new Samsung and my iPhone 9 is trash.
Were they trading in against a new vehicle?
Some have larger margins they can work with/are more desperate to sell than others.
Of course they're going to be lower trade in at Tesla - I doubt they want them because they don't sell used cars so whatever they get traded are going to have to be offloaded to some kind of wholesaler at an additional cost. Merc/audi/Volvo have a dealer network they can use to sell
Typically Tesa Trade in is quite a lowball offer, but it's sometimes can be more than market for trade-in. It just depends on the car. If you want best value, it is best to sell your car privately.
Just here for the entertaining comments
It seems that Tesla cars attract some very wild comments but it's funny. Not just on Ozbargain, even irl.
Yes! Like the "free solar" comments.
I always ask for the free solar deal. I don't want the car, I want a good solar deal.
In addition they always make it sound like they stay home from sunrise to sunset then drive big distances overnight.
Strangest people I have ever met
Many people already have solar panels and only need to charge their cars one day every week or two. I already had my panels and I only charge it using excess energy during the middle of the day so what is my cost for "fuel"?
charge it using excess energy during the middle of the day so what is my cost for "fuel"?
Maybe you save cents verses getting paid for feed in (or you might get zero feed in) but it really isn't free. No even near the definition of free.
need to charge their cars one day every week or two
From solar? 6kw of solar 5kw inverter in Melbourne does 40kwh a day that is dawn to dusk, that is 200km of travel. Unfortunately most of that production is between 10am - 3pm which will probably net you 30kwh if you are lucky
I post this all the time because there is ALWAY ONE if not more that decide they want to redefine the concept of "FREE"
I did a finance degree so you didn't have to… (I love that on X also known previously as Twitter)
No even near the definition of free.
Why not? I have panels generating electricity which I have, and would have, regardless of whether I own an EV. There's no additional charge when I take the excess energy it generates and put it in my car. That is a reasonable definition of free.
You seem to disagree and argue that opportunity and other costs must always be included in definitions of "free", even though I would argue that opportunity costs are commonly not included in pricing. I've never heard anyone claim that petrol was $2.00 per litre because the price was $1.90 but they calculated the time it took to drive to and from the station and fill up and multiplied that by a rate that they reasonably feel that their time is worth. In fact, I see that all of the prices on OzBargain only include the purchase price and not opportunity costs or other factors that you feel must be included when calculating the cost in my case. It does meet a reasonable definition of free for those that have excess energy from existing solar panels.
30kwh if you are lucky
So 150km a week with one day's charging? Yes, that's enough for me on an average week. There are other days in the week too, if I really need them…
I post this all the time because there is ALWAY ONE if not more that decide they want to redefine the concept of "FREE"
I did a finance degree so you didn't have to
Define it then. Are you going to assume that entire purchase price of my panels ($2500 upfront plus $1400 interest-fee loan) should count towards my EV charging even though over a 10 year period, my total energy costs (including system cost) will be far less than if I didn't have the panels at all, even with my EV charging? How much will you attribute to my charging when my panels provide a significant net financial benefit over that period?
Let's say fuel consumption of 8L per 100km.for an equivalent size car to my Model Y. $2 a litre petrol. So $24 per week for my 150km. Over 10 years, that's $12480. So even if I bought the panels specifically for my EV and nothing else, was not interested in FIT, I have saved $9080. If there's a net financial benefit, is that free or is it still a cost?
@dazweeja: Will the car last you 10 years? What's the cost to replace the battery? Need to factor this into the equation.
Will the car last you 10 years?
Yes, I think so. There are very few moving parts compared to an ICE vehicle.
What's the cost to replace the battery?
In 5-10 years time? It's about $20-30K now so I expect it to be half or a third of that in 5-10 years the way battery technology is going. I'm hoping I'll be able to replace this battery with a solid-state one with far more range and quicker charging times then, and I think purchasing the most popular model increases the chances of this upgrade being available.
@dazweeja: So basically in 5-10 years the car is worthless unless you invest anther 20 -30k. What a scam
@Duece1995: Tesla has an 8-year warranty on batteries. I just checked and lithium-ion battery prices are 20% what they were in 2013. So $5-6K in 10 years is reasonable. Lithium-ion has plateaued in the last 5 years but cheaper alternatives like Sodium-ion are starting production. I will have saved more than that in petrol in that time. Maintenance costs are far less too. Charging in my driveway is more convenient as well. It makes both financial and environmental sense to me. I won't be buying an ICE car in the future.
@Duece1995: No, the battery will cost 20% of $20-30K in 10 years, so $5-6K. Lithium-ion batteries were $752 USD/kWh in 2013 and $152 USD/kWh in 2023. A reduction of 80%. It could be a reduction of even more in another 10 years because of all the resources being currently poured into battery technology.
@Duece1995: Current quotes for model 3 battery replacement in Aus are around $16k. Battery has 160,000 klm or 8 year warranty.
Why not? I have panels generating electricity which I have, and would have, regardless of
Come on! How long did it take for you to complete the circle of logic in your head?
Can you google how much does (number) KW of solar panel cost to install?
Why does everyone quote it takes "this" number of years for solar panels to pay back
Apparently your pay back period is 0
Can you give me say $1m to introduce you to people in the solar industry because you obviously have cracked the formula to free solar panels / energy
Come on! How long did it take for you to complete the circle of logic in your head?
I think my argument is perfectly clear. I have panels that provide me a net financial benefit over 10 years, and my charging does not make this a net cost. I'm not ignoring the upfront costs of my system - I explicitly gave those figures.
Apparently your pay back period is 0
No, I never said nor implied that. It's about 4-5 years on my calculations. I did say that my panels would provide a net financial benefit over 10 years compared to a scenario with no panels, even with my EV charging included. You don't want to seem to want to engage with that argument.
Can you give me say $1m to introduce you to people in the solar industry because you obviously have cracked the formula to free solar panels / energy
Facetious statement based on a strawman.
@dazweeja: Well you decided to put your foot in when I said the "free solar" but now it is some kind of magic formula
It never gets boring when suddenly your math improved and you want to show us the math.
Well you decided to put your foot in when I said the "free solar" but now it is some kind of magic formula
You think that calculating the financial benefit or cost over a 10-year period, including upfront costs, between a solar panel scenario and a no solar panel scenario is a "magic formula"?
I'll state my argument for a third time - my panels deliver me a net financial benefit over their lifetime. I use the excess energy from my panels to charge my car. What is the cost of charging my car? You seem to want to include the upfront costs of my system, which is fair, but only if you also include the savings on my energy bills over the lifetime of my system.
so what is my cost for "fuel"?
Every kw you are putting in your car is a kw you can't use for your house so have to pay for (ie a cost). In Economics this is called 'opportunity cost'. A lot of people don't seem to understand this simple concept.
Every kw you are putting in your car is a kw you can't use for your house so have to pay for (ie a cost). In Economics this is called 'opportunity cost'. A lot of people don't seem to understand this simple concept.
I understand it and even used that term. It's a simplification though - I charge my car during the middle of the day when the energy I use for charging is excess to my household needs. I have a 32A charger but I commonly charge at 16A or 8A so I don't have to draw from the grid. There's an opportunity cost from missing out on a few cents by putting back electricity into the grid, and you could include that to be completely accurate, but if my panels are providing me a net financial benefit, my charging only reduces this benefit, it isn't enough to make it a cost.
I can't afford on Model 3, hate Elon's politics and am jealous of his success but I swear it's just the car itself that bothers me, swear!
Yes, I'm not a fan of the car being attached to Elon Musk.
Nobody would buy one if it came with an Elon Musk
I was just taking the piss. I have no problem with Elon Musk whatsoever, I can also afford a Model 3, I've got a Highland LR on order.
hate Elon's politics
Which part specifically?
Politics of money
Politics of making himself popular
That is basically all that he stands for
@netjock: Maybe its for the money, but what do you think he needs that money for? Is there anything available for sale for personal consumption that he can not buy? Maybe some people with enough money have other motives to keep working.
Is there anything available for sale for personal consumption that he can not buy? Maybe some people with enough money have other motives to keep working
You obviously haven't been keeping with the behavior of billionaires. I am not going into it. There is plenty of podcasts summarizing the autobiography of Elon Musk amongst other billionaires.
I was playing the part of a typical progressive ideologue who can't afford a Tesla, just for fun.
I disagree with everything I said above.
Yeah there are fanbois and cult leaders etc. Some may just defend their investment. Normal human stuff.
Same price for the past few weeks. I check this page every day to have a stock in WA, however none, unfortunately. Have spoken to Tesla to have some transported from over East but they don't care. There is also a glitch that somehow gets you $4k off the price of Model 3 and I shared the screenshot with Telsa but they said they won't honor the price.
It was dropped a few days ago by a few hundred dollars.
How does the 4K price glitch work sounds really interesting
well, no point as Tesla won't honor the price. Something to do with referrals ;)
Waiting for the 8k price drop
Tesla no stock WA
boo that sucks :( I wonder if you could buy another state and drive it back
Go check out the Fremantle dock. Hundreds of them that just arrived were sitting on the dock over the weekend. Probably stock for people who ordered and have been waiting. Funnily enough every single one was white!
does this inventory link represent cars that are available right now without the wait time?
Yes, I think that is correct. But not 100% sure you're probably best calling Tesla
Not necessarily. It could also represent cars that have been built and are on their way to Australia. So, there might still be a smallish waiting time depending on where the car is.
Tesla is bleeding money now that they no longer have a monopoly and they've set up gigafactories that can't be ramped down. I wonder if they'll head the same way as Nokia as chinese cars out compete them on cost and ultimately function.
Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens long-term
I am offloading all my shares as soon as I have my money back. No long term confidence in Elon…
Probably not a bad time honestly, I think Tesla has some headwinds
I think the near-term future looks incredibly volatile. To play it safe, right now would be a great time to dump the lot as I’m buying
That kind of thinking is a little reductive. The future of Tesla is as much about cars as Amazon’s was about books
So it's in an unrelated industry such that they have to pivot entirely?
Let’s just say I’m not so convinced that the majority of innovation is coming out of China… yet
Their strength has turned into a weakness
You're way off on this comment.
Tesla makes the largest profit per car sold than ANY other car manufacturer on the planet. EV or Petrol. So much so that VW, BMW, Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler and now Ford have all stated they can't make EVs as they are as it's costing them far too much money, takes 3-4x longer to sell each vehicle and they can not compete. If you knew anything of how they're made, the products from every sensor, to every computer and the licensing and royalties they pay for typically over 500 items per car, you'd understand why this is the case and why Tesla has such a gigantic price lead on everyone else as they don't.
The EV industry is declining in totality, for all the sensible reasons it should, seeing 17% declines globally, BUT - Tesla are only seeing 4-5%. They make roughly $14k per vehicle sold, wildly common knowledge. Compared to Hyundai who are losing $3.9k per EV made, VW >$4k and are now the third most indebted company globally, borrowing $166bn to just survive and fund EV growth. It's rumoured (very hard to get facts) that BYD's are sold between $8-13k under cost of production and thus whilst propping up an economy and trying to break market, at some point they will increase costs or go bust.
What people fail to understand is Tesla could HALF the cost of their cars and make more money still than EVERY other car manufacturer at their prices today. They have such a price advantage and built such a significant moat no current company can compete. This is over a decade of forward thinking the other companies couldn't even fathom at the time.
BYD are bleeding money much like companies like Temu, funded from "unknown" sources to penetrate markets at massive losses so they can buy market share.
Also, add in the fact most by an EV under the understanding its better for the environment and reduces carbon. It takes 7 years to break even on carbon on a Tesla Model 3 and 6 years on a S. It takes 13.7 years on a BYD Atto. At that age, batteries will have to be replaced, making the Atto realistically 20.7 years of ownership to break even on carbon. All from CSIRO. I'd love to see the current BYD cars last 20 years haha
Tesla aren't bleeding anything. And the fact have more chargers, plants, battery tech, defacto charging sockets in other cars and the infrastructures in place in 71 countries, at a level more than any car manufacturer, they have secured long term revenue opportunities than any other car manufacturer has.
They're also the number one selling EV car in 109 countries, CHINA being one. The Model Y is the worlds greatest selling EV. And they sold more Tesla's in 2023 to date this year, than EVERY OTHER EV from EVERY OTHER country added together. They even have a 30% market share in China, the biggest EV market on the planet that's making your supposed "better" local alternatives they aren't even buying themselves.
And all this from a petrol driving person who will never buy an EV and instead wait for a proper solution like Ammonia or another alternative. But, their monopoly is not even remotely in danger.
Haha, he must have read this article today.
“Elon Musk started a price war that Tesla can't win”
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-price-cuts-e…
It predicts doom and gloom for Tesla with the legacy automakers winning 😂.
The article is by from the angry plump analyst from The Elon Musk Show documentary.
Jim Farley, Ford CEO "EV's are a sinking ship. Switch to combustion before it's too late. We can not afford any more losses"
Tesla "Lets drop the price again, we can afford to"
This may be terrible business, it also may go down as the greatest long term strategy from a company. All others can not compete.
VW admitting they pay for 761 licences for tech (sensors, lasers, computers, software etc) per ID4 sold. Tesla = 0. None. They can't compete. Same way Apple won. Higher profits, for less tech for years. Yet more profitable and long term positive than any other phone manufacturer. End to end ownership.
Agree with this.
Not sure about longevity of these batteries though. I get nervous about any electric car after battery warranty runs out. It would cost a bomb to replace them ie 25-30k including labour in Australia.
Any thoughts on battery degradation if the car is parked outdoor in extreme heat and cold (ie typical australia). My understanding is that the battery will damaged unless temps are in check.
For Tesla the battery temp is always controlled by the car heat pump injecting hot or cold. On top of that the battery has a huge thermal mass which changes very slowly so is easy to control.
Relative to the size of the pack it doesn't consume much energy.
BYD are bleeding money much like companies like Temu, funded from "unknown" sources to penetrate markets at massive losses so they can buy market share.
BYD are making $1550 USD per vehicle, not sure how that's bleeding money when they're paying a dividend (something Tesla is yet to do).
Yes its not as much as Tesla but it is something.
Tesla makes the largest profit per car sold than ANY other car manufacturer on the planet. EV or Petrol
Thats incorrect. The most profitable car is the GM full sized truck manufactured in America. GM are scaling back EV production to focus on producing these cars as they are the most profitable anywhere.
What people fail to understand is Tesla could HALF the cost of their cars and make more money still than EVERY other car manufacturer at their prices today. They have such a price advantage and built such a significant moat no current company can compete. This is over a decade of forward thinking the other companies couldn't even fathom at the time.
No they cant, their costs are rising and demand is sliding. Their Cybertruck wont make any money anytime soon.
buy MG4
That's the old one
Is Tesla the new crypto for 2023
I mean if you wanna buy a new car and sell it in a year for less than yeah buy high sell low :D
I meant trying to create marketing hype, advertising, resulting in FOMO and profit… I don't think I'll bite, I can think of cheaper ways to incinerate myself and my house etc…
they are discounting their products bro. there no FOMO in this.
Tesla is the best car ..awesome deal!
I don't think it's the best car in the world or anything like that but if you're into electric cars I think they are pretty good.
For this Price you got some great stuff and a dealer network around Australia which some of the other electric cars don't have.
Or just wait and watch Tesla prices depreciate further
Yep, catching a falling knife right now.
Tesla owners watching as their car's value is ripped to shreds.
the launch of the Cybertruck will be the nail in the coffin. The brand is dying so fast this is more like catching a broadsword with two fingers. If people liked the price now, they'll like the lowered price in a quarter.
I commented above but this is hilarious. The car they have 1m paid pre-orders for (greater than any other car in history) and the fact they sell more EVs than every other car manufacturer added together and also make money unlike every other EV company. They're lowering the price as a war. They have more margin than any other manufacturer (petrol or EV) and thus this is strategic. They can half their price and still make a profit. Every other car company is losing money.
What drives these uneducated answers? Is it honestly simply hatred for Elon?
@mxlmxlmxl: Dislike for Elon usually and people not bothering to read past surface level articles to do actual research.
@mxlmxlmxl: Terrible take, have you seen operating margins lately, trailing twelve months is a smidge under 15% before the more recent price drops. This is in addition of warranties being hidden in goodwill. They can NOT half their price and make a profit, beyond ridiculous.
Look at Tesla asset values TTM and get back to me
and the fact they sell more EVs than every other car manufacturer added together and also make money unlike every other EV company.
Don't make up bs especially when it's easy to refute
I get it you're a Tesla fanboi
@Drakesy: Crap, I stand corrected, I was using 2022 numbers. I stand corrected and appreciate you correcting me.
Considering 43% of BYDs are PHEV models, it's not entirely a fair comparison either. Taking into account their BEV models only, Tesla still outsold them this year so far. I didn't realise they'd jumped that much in 6 months.
And not a Tesla fanboi buy any standards. Don't own. Wouldn't own. Have made a sizeable benefit from shares for sure but thats due to the moat they have made. If we looked at a two horse race, we're arguing Apple Vs Android. One builds better, more reliable products with great customer satisfaction, with lesser technology arguably, but control their own ecosystem end to end. BYD are cheap shitty manufactured cars that are poorly made and have issues. Will they catch up, sure. It took Hyundai 25 years to get close to Toyota (not a great goal) so I am sure BYD will eventually too.
And by then, I'll move from petrol to a better alternative that'll actually be a great experience and replace a petrol car in its entirity.
One builds better, more reliable products with great customer satisfaction
@Drakesy: I can't seem to find it mentioned in the source, but this also states "production" not units sold?
@mxlmxlmxl: Ah, found a better source. https://www.ev-volumes.com/
Tesla outsold BYD like for like (BEVs) by 27%. And are still number one in the world, with the largest market share.
@Drakesy: Considering they've sold more than anyone else, and their is limited time in market, limited research and limited models (compared to petrol using the same tests) not really of any weight. For any brand. Basically nearly all top makers on that list and BYD wasn't tested.So??
And the other two you added testing against petrol cars? not sure what the point is? My laptop is more reliable than my phone? That's useful knowledge. to no one.
And the other two you added testing against petrol cars? not sure what the point is? My laptop is more reliable than my phone? That's useful knowledge. to no one.
Here ya go, Tesla Vs BYD, pretty much on par with each other.
@Drakesy: Which states ByD is 10% less than Tesla? Also I’ve now figured out why I was confused when you said BYD were making money. They do. On PHEVS and lose on BEVs and average it out. Unlike other manufacturers that seperate the two.
It’s not apples for apples in how you’re tying to compare them. One produces more petrol cars with batteries which of course sell better. They’re a cheap petrol manufacturer with a BEV line subsidising it. Anyway, with have different viewpoints and I appreciate you correcting aspects of mine and further educating me.
@mxlmxlmxl: Aren't those pre-orders all $100 and completely refundable? Of course people are going to get on that. No manufacturer offers such a cheap, entirely cash-back-if-you-change-your-mind deal. It doesn't mean people will actually take hold of the car. I predict once they actually hit the road a comfortable majority will change their minds and rather have their $100.
tldr the "most pre-orders in history" claim is a gimmick manufactured to boost hype. It isn't reflective of what the actual sales figures will be and shouldn't be used as justification for thinking the product will be successful.
@RolandWaites: The statement, whether you agree with how it is calculated or not, is true. Plus plenty of car companies have taken deposits and orders in the past. And IIRC it was $1000. Maybe someone who order can confirm.
Point being, its globally the most talked about car for probably decades if not all time. It won't keep up with demand from those that want it despite what every naysayer things.
I personally think its hideous and lunacy haha. But my opinion doesn't change facts and the likeliest outcome.
yeah i would get a high yield investment car instead and start a new banking job at westpac.
Actually to be brutally honest. That is not a bug, it’s a feature.
The Model 3 will probably be the equivalent of $40-50k in a year or two, with a new smaller model at $30-$40K in todays dollars, again in a few years.
The price trajectory for Tesla is down to become mainstream. It’s Elon’s whole plan.
Yea I'm still waiting after a decade. The model 3's used are starting to get cheaper now, just means more and more people will buy them!
Does salary sacrificing ev make sense given running cost will be a lot lower with cheaper servicing and no petrol expenses?
It depends on your income, but yes, no fringe benefits tax can make it quite good.
interested in this as well… commenting for notifications/please PM if you ever do do the maths
I looked into it, yes and no.
If you need finance then yes, if you have cash it's still cheaper to buy outright.
My quote on a BYD Atto 3 was going to cost something like $15k in the first year, then grilled them for the interest rate and they're charging something in excess of 10%. Basically taking money that is meant to go to tax and lining their pockets with it, the whole thing left a sour taste in my mouth.
Still depends, even if you have the cash, you need to consider cost of money, the cash could be earning decent return, particularly with today's rates.
Not as common, but many companies now support "affiliate leases", where you or a family member essentially provide the finance, and get paid for providing the finance. Then you still get the traditional novated lease benefits.
I got some quotes on smartsalary.
Worked out that the interest rates are approximately 16% for 1 year, down to 9% for 5 year plan.
On a $50,000 car that's $8,250 in interest if choosing 1 year plan.
Anyway, even with FBT exemption and tax benefits, I worked out it would cost $1,000 more to salary package compared to buying outright.
Might work out better for people on higher marginal tax rate.
Yikes