Tesla, just dropped the price of an inventory Model 3 even lower, might be a good bargain to get before the:
stamp duty rebate https://www.revenue.nsw.gov.au/grants-schemes/electric-vehic…
and 3k ev grant ends: https://www.revenue.nsw.gov.au/grants-schemes/electric-vehic…
at the end of this year.
With the refresh model 3 2024 loosing the gear stalk and blinker stalk, this could become a high yield investment ;D
Lease Plan (belongs to SGFleet, the biggest fleet lease company in Aust), rate is 8% whether 1 or 5 years. Was 7.7% before the latest interest rate rise.
That's only 1.5% difference to an average home loan 6.5%. I.e. Novated lease with no FBT is better than buying out right (leave the money in your home loan offset or a managed fund). Yes I have done the maths ;-)
@Buy2Much: Here is the fact: I got model 3 through Novated Lease on a 4 years lease. The cost to my pay + the balloon payment after lease = cost of car if buy out right. No brainer to get it via novated lease.
@Buy2Much: 8% is a very good rate. Unfortunately we don't get a choice. Our salary packaging provider is smart salary.
The biggest is your tax bracket. If you're on the highest, you could legitimately have some serious savings even if you pay the novated lease company a fair bit for it.
Best to take the numbers, plug it into a spreadsheet. Paying stuff on pre-tax salary is a huge discount that until i paid attention to real world examples didn't realise just how much you're saving (despite the final figure being paid being a lot higher).
Don't foget you can claim all sorts of other fees during the lease as well. Insurance, service fees etc.
depends on the tax bracket you're in
if you have cash it's still cheaper to buy outright.
As a blanket statement this is unmitigated bullshit, no the least of which because it in large part depends on how far away you are from a tax bracket and if the lease puts you under it.
I would counter, is it worth leasing a traditional car and paying FBT?
But in general does it make sense salary sacrificing an EV, there is no one flat answer. Salary sacrificing isn't just about the running costs, it's the total costs, always comes down to specifics, finance rates ect…
The thing about buying it outright is it's yours the day you walk out of the dealership, and you know exactly what you paid! Leasing companies rely on you not appreciating all of the costs they charge you over the life of the car - they make money by keeping you on their books.
If you don't earn the highest rate of tax, I'd guess it's not worth it, even with an EV, but I haven't done the maths
If you're on the highest tax bracket someone calculated they would save 18k on a 65k T model 3. I think there's a lot more savings even if you're not at the highest bracket to be made.
They would pay the novated lease company somewhere between 72-75k total at the end but it would save them about 18k overall compared to handing over the cash on the spot.
No, since with Salsac or Novated leasing cant claim the cost of the car instelf, just the expenses to upkeep so if running cost are less, it makes less sense to salsac. Novated lease come with pretty poor finance rate with crap interest rates.
And they can often negotiate cheaper up front pricing than you can to mitigate it.
You’re forgetting EVs under the LCT threshold are free of FBT. Your lease payments and running costs (rego, insurance, tyres etc) are in pre tax dollars. If you’re in a high tax bracket the numbers are compelling.
this is the first time i've seen a car post here without 200+ upvotes and 20 "thanks got 69" comments within 0.314 nanoseconds
bahhaa, I miss those comments
Can anyone make a suggestion for a good ev that has a dashboard and maybe some buttons. I rented a model y for about 5 nights on a recent roadtrip and I just couldn't live with no dashboard.
People have told me you'd get used to it but why? I'd not want to drive it around until I get used to it or retrofit one…
Otherwise nice drive…but the lack of dashboard killed it for me.
Get another dash aftermarket?
Otherwise polestar 2 is nice.
Loads of aftermarket options. I drove a Toyota Echo that had it's dash in the centre, you just get used to it.
Anything on Model Y 😁
If you really want an EV and can afford 60k then you're probably better off saving a bit more and getting a Merc or BMW. Far better EV than a Tesla.
Cheapest merc ev starts at $82k. bmw $85k. I'd say that's saving up for a fair bit more.
Literally just badge snobbery: no point paying big money unless it's German. The luxury legacy EVs are terrible and significantly more expensive than Tesla.
This or a used 18 month old one on carsales for the same price?
Tesla accelerating depreciation on their own vehicles.
It's great isn't it. "Buy a new car and you too can watch the manufacturer give a blanket 7% of the next week maybe, maybe not, who knows, (profanity) you"
I dont really understand this point of view, the only differance is that Tesla makes it transparent and fair for everyone, this kind of discounting happens for every brand. If you want a big discount for any car then buy the old model they need to sell out.
What's the cost to change one of these?
Charge?
Say 28c a kwh, 82 kwh battery pack (long range) about $23 for 600k's
Set up costs?
Well you could use your wall outlet and adapter that generally come with the cars (may be like a $600 option)
To $3-4k for the faster charger box and installation
With a 13% recall rate from the factory, I'd advise everybody to be wary about buying a Tesla in 2023.
are most of the those recalls fixed by software update?
you do know most of that is fixed by software updates right? so the so called "recalls" aren't hardware issues.
Many of them, sure, but which other top-level manufacturers are reliably having to warn their customers about urgent software updates needed on safety grounds?
Perhaps you haven't been looking, but they range from airbags not working, brakes not working, steering not working. And that's just Toyota!
@onlinepred: The average Tesla Y is expected to be recalled 62 times over its lifetime (according to InsideEVs). The average for a car is four times over 30 years. Teslas make up 4 of the top 5 most commonly recalled cars on our roads, by their figures.
This isn't just a small blip. These are crazy figures. Here's the link:
https://insideevs.com/news/662943/tesla-most-recalled-car-br…
pretty much why NSW has so many evs because its way cheaper to get it there than any where else.
I know mates that bought his tesla down in NSW and drove it up to qld got the plates change over to qld and it was still cheaper than getting it done all up here in QLD.
QLD offers $6K rebate (for households with total income of less than $180K) and is the only Australian state to offer higher than $3K.
pretty sure you get zero stamp duty in NSW as well on evs.
Just wondering, in Australia which EV is not make in China?
Mercedes EQ B is made in Hungary
and crazy expensive.
yea who is buying these disposable 1st/2nd gen EVs
Isn't the EQB under 90K? It is a seven seater and it is a Mercedes right?
Consider both the Korean model is over 70K, I don't think it is that bad but reliability is another totally sperate topic.
@syswong: If going for EQB, then it will be more luxurious interior no doubt. I hate those shitty capacitative buttons on the mercs though.
@syswong: you can get like a model 3 performance for that price 0 to 100km in 3 seconds. :D for what you get with the mercedes and seeing other offerings from other car manufacturers your paying for the brand
@kungfuman: Kia and Hyundai EV both goes around 75K, you suggesting we are paying for the brand?
Please don't compare PRC brands, all their exports is practically dumping in other countries.
Also I don't think yo can compare EQB to Model 3, its like comparing Rav4 to Carolla…..
@syswong: both aren't performance models and you can get a long range tesla model 3 for 70k. If you get a kia GT ev your looking at 100k or more.
@kungfuman: Sorry your replies lost me😖😖
You are just endorsing my POV that EQB is actually not a bad deal?
@syswong: you were talking about a 75k kia or hyundai ev compared to what I was saying about a model 3 performance vs a SUV merc in price and function. I was saying function over cost isn't in play with a merc vs any other ev. Your paying between a 100k and 350k or more for the brand with a merc and your not getting anything's better function wise than say a 70k model 3 eg range and charging speeds, is what I am saying.
100k and 350k?
the base price of EQB is A$ 88,306.15 and again EQB is SUV / 7 seater hence cannot agree Higher spec Model 3 is comparable….
China has the best EV/Battery Tech I'm told, years ahead of anyone else.
China has the best EV/Battery Tech I'm told,
They have the cheapest battery, and OZBs think cheapest is the best, so it must be the best.
years ahead of anyone else
Since the press release of Huawei Mate 40 with their CEO saying they are years ahead of anyone so many times, everything in China is now "years ahead of anyone else" 🤣🤣
LR is a good value if someone is in the market. I bought MY last year and at the time M3 LR was nearly 10k more expensive. It’s a great car at around 70k
Do people still believe these will get a software update that will make them drive themselves oneday?
Based on the fact that Tesla has hired FSD engineers in Australia, it's safe to assume that FSD will be released (at some point) in Australia: https://thedriven.io/2023/07/30/tesla-adds-more-potential-fs…
I wanna see what laws will change with driverless cars in Australia currently there is none. I would really love to see a cop pull over a driverless car and ask for license and rego.
I personally would just love to see any cop pull over anyone who breaks the law. I see 20+ every day, and would pay money to see them get pulled over
@onlinepred: driverless car means no driver which means the car would be empty. So how does AI controlled car with no driver break the law since its programed into it. What are they going to do? fine the car manufacturer because they didn't program a updated traffic law?
@kungfuman: Tesla aren't doing driverless cars in the US yet. It would be very interesting to see one being pulled over. This is happening in California already with driverless taxi's.
If you are talking about FSD, they are not driverless, they still require a human behind the wheel. Also, the driver is still responsible and needs to ensure that they are able to take corrective action and take over when required.
@lazybones1987: well technically no you don't need to be in the drivers seat with FSD it can function with out you being there. There are videos of this being tested. You can be a passenger sit in the back if you want to. With the release of FSD V12 its no longer a beta in the U.S. its the full release version. The laws how ever need to catch up. But the technology is there ready to go.
@kungfuman: Whilst the car can "technically" drive by itself, the expectation is that a human being is still sitting behind the wheel of the car and is able to take over when required. But yes, it will be interesting to see how the laws pan out in future years.
@lazybones1987: be interesting if they ban manual driving altogether in the future, imagine never needing a drivers license
No and I expect plenty of phantom breaking.
Merc or other company will beat Tesla to FSD one day.
https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23892154/mercedes-benz-dr…
seen those Mercs up close, they aren't worth it for range and charging speeds arent' great.
I was only talking about self driving.
Electric tech, Tesla is a winner.
Merc EQS is epitome of luxury AND efficiency though. $350k.
@MrThing: Yer. Merc is not for people who want value. Only for people who want something that 99.99% population can only dream about.
Having owned and experienced selling an EV. All I can say you better hope you really like the EV experience and you're happy to live with it as your forever car.
For as long as there are tax and purchase incentives and these companies continue to "fix" the price but yet clearly slash them at will; buyers will low ball you immensely. Simultaneously the newer models have significant and radical changes that makes your car less appealing.
forever car that will last 10 years, yawn
isn't it same for all cars?
A Commodore would halve in value after <2 years because you were competing with fleet cars, but I guess people have forgotten that
and triple in value in 30, wild hey. If you'd told me one the best financial investments I could have made in 2010 was a 180sx…
Same with any new technology.
Who wants an early iPhone, Widescreen plasma TV, DVD player etc.
EVs are still early in development, they will be almost unrecognisable in a decade.
Early adopters settle for advanced prototypes
Thx sheep, ill buy one when the beta testing is over
Tell me more about your experience with an EV. Keen to find out how you sold it etc.
Clearing out the old tech. Hydro is the way of the future.
Ammonia too. Toyota's new test engine is epic.
Cna you imagine how stupid EV's will look. hours to charge. Even fast charging in 15 mins. The battery waste. Mineral mining eco damage.
Then along comes hydro, ammonia and other alts that produce less carbon, instant refueling and cheaper. Not to mention the reduction in killing 1500 African kids a year currently mining lithium and cobalt for just EV cars.
Toyotas ammonia car is as good as vapourware for now. When it comes to market then we can consider it.
Other alts need to make an appearnce first in the main stream. Even hydrogen is useless for now, poor energy density and no chargers!
Having a working version in a driving car was a massive milestone. Its now possible.
But I agree. However EVs are utterly pointless and a terrible idea to buy. You need to keep them for 7-13 years to break even carbon wise and in that time, significantly better options will exist. Unless forced to buy now, no one should.
@mxlmxlmxl: yes that's correct. One shouldn't throw away a perfectly working petrol car now but if you drive something that's end of life, it's a reasonable consideration.
What is difficult to predict is whether petrol or current EV will be worthless in the future. I suspect both. PEtrol will be phased out and current EVs will have expensive battery failures. World will have to readjust.
@mxlmxlmxl: Not pointless at all. Novated lease + 8c kw to charge = $7.00 to fill, 33c for normal hours = $30 to fill, solar = $0 to fill, almost no maintenance compared to my 13 year old petrol car which has cost me $2600 in repairs in the last 6 months.
I can't wait to my EV and sell the petrol car.
@Noobist45: Erm, you realise a typical EV needs 40-50kw. So, you need an 11kw solar system and to charge it all day to charge it for free. So, that's not happening as your house will then consume from grid.
Less than 11% homes in australia can fit more than 11kw solar on a roof. 45% no more than 6kw. So, half of homes almost can't even charge the car in a day. And, whos charging it at home during a day?!
Agree on the rest. But, considering most buy one for carbon and the time they own it before battery replacement won't break even, won't use solar to charge it as almost impossible for 89% population and electricity keeps increasing, 27% this year in VIC, 22% last year, it won't be long until that $33 on grid (likely) will actually be $50+. Is that less than petrol, for sure. Is it sensible and a good ROI over a decade against a comparable cost of petrol for like for like… probably. But it isn't clear cut and anyone that travels more than 500km a week (nearly 60% australians according to NRMA/RACV) then you're not taking into account the time cost to charge it at superchargers.
All still not addressing the eco disaster minign cobalt and lithium and the 1500 lives of children killed per year doing so… But hey, you got an EV that in 7+ years will make up the carbon impact of the petrol car so you're doing good for the world.
@mxlmxlmxl: in Queensland nearly every car park has free 22kw AC chargers my local shopping center has Tesla 22kw chargers I charge for free every week while I shop. Obviously if you live in other states like NSW and VIC it sucks, and you don't have many free chargers available to you. But you can't assume everyone is in the same situation.
@kungfuman: Free… now. I think the issue mos fail to realise with EV's is the grid can not support it. It can not support population and current usages, straining constantly in most states. Then, add in more electric items (e.g. VIC banning gas cook tops etc) and the demand continues.
To date the single mechanism that has worked in curbing usage… Pricing. 22% and 27% year on year increases and more planned. It's inevitable. To pay for the grid they'll need more money.
So whilst today it is awesome their are free chargers, there will be a time there won't be. AT first will be nominal charge. Then more and more. Till you decide its better at home.
I 100% think right now is the BEST time to own an EV. Much like 15 years ago in most states was the BEST time to get solar. 60c feed in tarifs. Now 5c in VIC. It will happen. Has always happened. So owning an EV today is fantastic. Today.
I make car purchases with a 2-7 year outlook at least. And honestly 3-7 years isn't looking great in my opinion. Its formed from seeing this long enough, from factual changes happening over the last 5 years, maths of our grid system, knowledge and industry knowledge of discussions on power utilisation and gut.
Honestly would love to own a Tesla. Model S Plaid was on my wishlist. However I won't because I think its a terrible decision. In my opinion. Not because of the car. Because of the issues, charging, power costs and better tech incoming.
@mxlmxlmxl: been free for 5 years now no signs in changing, and so many Tesla's are up here now. We all use the plug share app and no one is abusing the system. I have had my model 3 for 7 months never pay a single cent for charging.
@mxlmxlmxl: I suggest that you watch the following video where all these myths get debunked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeHakmL6eEc&t=888s
@lazybones1987: Except the carbon counter report doesn't take into account the mining of the materials. And makes assumptions on recycling. Which 1) isn't possible today. 2) at best is 18% of the battery.
The numbers are benefitted to suit a narrative and the criteria was altered. It was done so after Volvos and others admissions.
None of them also take into account the cost implications and eco disaster of the mining of a rare mineral (cobalt) compared with oil which we have in abundance in comparison. Nor simple math on the required power grids to service it all. Its not "myth". Its cold hard facts. Todays grids can not service 100% EV cars. It can't in fact service 20% EV cars. The tech is flawed and will die. The concessions being made today are accepted due to no alternatives and a strong push.
Why are car manufacturers all in more debt and lose more making EV than petrol (exept tesla)? Why are consumers turning off in droves? Because I can tell you what, being in a mates Tesla on a public holiday weekend, waiting in a queue for 4 hours to charge it then 40 mins to charge it was (profanity) pointless. No car owner should do that. Ever.
Are they great. Yes. Fun to drive. Better tech… Will EVs be the car of the future… nope. Math and physics dictate it's impossible.
Yeah that was my experience, bit of a joke tbh.