Someone posted this the other day when it was 20/22% off, it now is 30% off which brings it down to a quite low price.
I should mention these are not reviewed well and will almost certainly provide less than advertised capacity. Keeping this in mind for $216 I still decided to buy
I might do a teardown when it arrives to see if this is updated versus the potentially older 100AH model. Maybe there are some improvements, but probably not tho…
The last teardown was a while back now and lacked info…
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/723192#comment-12638775
There's a video teardown too
Same guy that only got 75Ah and 55Ah in his tests, don't know if he just got a dud battery as there's comments from others who say theirs are at capacity.
The thing is you don't know if what you get in one is going to be the same as the next.
@bamzero: Nice, thanks…
so yeh, as I suspected, it looks like 4s2p with worn-out recycled cells…
Batteries are usually retired once they drop down to around 80% because they drop-off fast after that, so it looks like those 60Ah cells down at 80% are being thrown in parallel to produce these batteries… 60Ah x 80% = 48Ah, x2 = 96AH (I assume the cells in that teardown must have been down at like 50%)
@FLICKIT: The part number is the same as the cells from the other tear down, without the big label. 192Wh cells. I wonder if they are the same in the 110A version, guessing they probably are..
Whether they are at 80% or not I don't know but yeah, there is a reason these are cheap and it seems its pot luck what you get. For light duty use theres a good chance they'll be fine for most people. Like I said, theres multiple comments on that video saying their batteries tested over 100Ah.
So he may have got a bad one but for $216 I've taken a punt on it. I'll do a capacity test when it arrives and if it falls short take it up with the seller.
@bamzero: At the price you really cant go wrong, the chances are if it's over 100Ah at the start you should get a couple of good years use out of it at least, by then things are likely to have changed with batteries and there may be cheaper/better options to upgrade to… Keep the expectations in check and it's all good…
I should mention these are not reviewed well and will almost certainly provide less than advertised capacity
This should be the deal breaker. What its not even 50ah?
The lowest I have seen from the older 100AH model was 55AH. Which would certainly be something to consider, will be the same usable capacity of a 100AH AGM at that rate.
This is a 110AH updated model, so hopefully, it is better. Even if it is 50ah for $216 it is an okay deal.
If you buy one, as soon as you get it cycle it a couple of times and measure the capacity, if it's nowhere near the claimed 110Ah just send it back for a refund… (ebay Plus free returns and such)
Usual story, batteries are generally rated by dragging them down to like 10v which isn't really too healthy for them, you really don't get much out of them below 12v, so drag it down to 12v and as long as you get 100Ah or more it would be a keeper… If you're nowhere near 100Ah at 12volt just drag the guts out of it for interest sake to see what the capacity is with it going down to 10v, then send it back for a refund…
I have a midrange 100Ah LiFePO4 battery, not cheap, not expensive… Discharging to 12v and charging to 13.8v, it's capacity is right on 100Ah… If I went 10v to 14.6 it would be around 110Ah I guess, but I want long life, I dont want to abuse it…
Edit: my concern with these real cheap batteries is they may be used recycled cells, the old teardown photos show 60Ah pouch cells in the 100Ah battery, so I assume it may be 4s2p, 2x 60Ah cells in parallel maybe, so for it to only be 100Ah they're either very low grade cells that dont meet spec, or they're recycled cells that are down to like 80% capacity, which would equate to about the claimed 100Ah…. Once cells are down to 80% capacity they tend to drop off fast, so you probably cant expect it to keep it's claimed capacity for thousands of cycles like you can with 'new' cells… This is all just guessing and thoughts, no facts… I rely on my battery too much to cheap out on one of these cheapies, but if I was just doing weekenders or such I'd consider it…
return it?
Can these be run safely in series for 24V or parallel for 12V at double the (overstated) amp hours?
Parallel would be O.K, likely not series though. Better buying a dedicated 24v battery for this.
Why would series be an issue?
Each battery just steps up the voltage. Just ensure the current draw is below the design capacity of the battery.
I would be more concerned in running them in parallel, as any difference in voltage will get a large current running from one battery to the other, unless of coarse you put a resistor between to minimise the current (I=V/R).
I am genuinely interested to know why you think series is an issue.
Lithium is not like AGM. The battery management system (BMS) which is built into these is like a little circuit board. It is usually only rated for 12v. If you put them in series for 24v it blows the BMS.
Some are designed for parallel or series use and have BMS with flex voltage. Doubt this one is.
The battery management system (BMS) [..] is usually only rated for 12v. If you put them in series for 24v it blows the BMS.
It's funny how you have absolutely no understanding of electronics but happily give advice to people what (not) to do.
In a 24V series setup, each battery's own controller would only receive approx. half of the total voltage (so approx. 12V each), depending on the internal resistance of the batteries.
So nothing would be "blown"…
The only actual problem might be the design of the internal controller: if they disconnect after fully charging the internal batteries, and then the second battery would not reach full charge after the first reaching full charge voltage. However, it's very unlikely that the design would be like this.
@glade90: I was using an over simplification to explain it.
For a detailed breakdown try reading something like this guide.
https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/dl_series/gui-l…
The point I was making is the BMS needs to be designed to cope with the 24v load. Otherwise it can damage the battery. Some of the lower quality batteries just can not be put in 2S/2P configurations.
difference in voltage will get a large current running from one battery to the other, unless of coarse you put a resistor between to minimise the current (I=V/R).
Look, another one with absolutely no understanding of electronics. First, it's "course" not "coarse". Second, adding a resistor anywhere would limit the total current output of the two batteries, making a parallel connection pointless, and turning their charge into heat. The dumbest idea I heard in a long while.
When connecting them in parallel, you just need to make sure they are exactly the same voltage initially (< +-.1V), when making the connection. After that, they will be kept on the same voltage, by definition.
@glade90: Ok I think I understand what you are saying.
How about using a resistor initially when you connect the batteries together to limit high current if there is a difference in voltage between the two batteries, and then once the batteries level out in voltage (energy transfer from one battery to the other), take out the resistor and just use a direct connection as you have noted (so you dont get heat loss during normal operation P=I^2.R).
I get you want to limit the voltage difference between the batteries when you connect them up together.
With a direct connection from one battery to the other, the resistance will be very low in the wire, so current could be very high for small differences in voltage.
As an example of my concerns, if I was to connect the batteries in parallel using a 0 gauge (8.25mm) copper wire at 30cm long, it would have a resistance of around 0.1 milliohm calculator, so even if you had a voltage difference of 0.1V, the current between the batteries would still be 1,000A. This is my concern.
Perhaps I have this all wrong, and you can enlighten me, as I only have a basic understanding of electronics.
@Malik Nasser: OK, we are getting somewhere, but you are missing a lot of pieces.
First, batteries must be thought of a power supply with a serial resistor, symbolising internal resistance. Your model did not include that. Have a look here http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Battery-int…
The other missing part is that batteries cannot be modelled as an infinite pool of storage: their voltage will jump substantially during charging, then drop again after the charge disappears. When you connect two batteries, if the voltage-gap between the two aren't too big, the voltage of the battery being charged (having initially lower voltage) will quickly match the voltage of the charging battery; similarly, the charging battery's voltage will quickly sag (depending on internal resistance), matching the voltage of the charged battery. Overall, this will severely limit the current flowing between the two.
using a resistor initially when you connect the batteries together to limit high current
Yep, you can use this if you don't have access to a charger to charge them to the same voltage. Not a trivial task with bigger batteries with bigger voltage difference, as either the balancing will be super slow (high resistor used), or the current will be high and the resistor will heat up (low resistor used).
Yes, with a very high confidence. There are weird edge cases I can think of, but none would apply in your simple 2 battery setup.
The manufacturer most likely tested these usual van-setups (2S or 2P), so I wouldn't worry about it.
Stating the obvious, but make sure to charge them to the exact same voltage before connecting them in parallel.
Been waiting for a deal on 100ah voltx but can’t get it cheaper than $519 minus 22%. Was hoping for lower than $400 :(
Ayne look at the Renogy sale ATM. Can get the core for $400ish.
just checked, it $499 but much better battery compared to voltx.
https://au.renogy.com/core-12v-24v-48v-100ah-deep-cycle-lith…
Yeah the Renogy batteries are great value. The equivalent VoltX is the Plus range, but I have not seen any good prices on those for ages.
@Prong: Renogy core 12v 100ah is $413 on ebay plus at the moment. It has 100 BMS. I am going to pick one.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/295868640189?epid=17062806618&ha…
Buy it. Drain it to 0%. Charge it back up using a good Lithium compatible charger (e.g. Victron). Do that 2-3 times, Record what was put back into the battery. Raise eBay claim. Get full refund, keep defective battery: it's lower than advertised but good enough for free.
You'll just get a shipping label to return the battery, rather than getting to keep it.
The battery in the back of my car disagrees with you.
This is an eBay Plus lising, so returns label is automatically given if you lodge for a refund.
But not trying to disagree - certainly some sellers will refund and not want a return. I have not had that with any eBay Plus listing though. However I also have not tried pushing for anything outside of the normal system.
What was your method?
Thanks OP, I have issues with forward (ball) weight in my camper trailer and I was planning on relocating my 30KG 100 AH AGM this summer to the inside rear. For all the stuffing around I figured better off buying this, replacing in the existing forward location and just saving the 18KG straightaway. Saves me a day of stuffing around.
My power demands are very low, I use a gas fridge in the van so if its a bit underated,no biggie.
I did similar a couple of years ago. Great way to save weight and increase usable battery capacity.
Hopefully rest of your 12v system is suitable for lithium or there might be more stuffing around.
Its super basic, I just use a MPPT charger off folding solar panels when im out there and planning to charge with an MXS5.0 Ctek in Gel mode when I need to top up at home. Its doesnt even have a DC to DC charger installed, never needed it, My wind up camper dosent do big multi-stop trips or anything. DC Fridge runs off a 70AH in the car and then I transfer food to Gas fridge once its temps are down. It won't get the best capacity out of the battery but really im just running lights, phone chargers and sometimes a 60L DC fridge when I can be bothered to take it out of the car.
My existing 100AH AGM has rarely dropped below 12.5 volts in use, probably only cycles down to 75% cap.
Sounds similar setup but I run a DC fridge most of the time as well as gas.
Battery monitor/shunt maybe a good idea cos you can’t tell state of charge too well by voltage with lithium. Renogy for $80 seems good. Prob waste of $ if you only ever use a fraction of the capacity tho.
@watts: Thanks for the tip. I was thinking about these they seem pretty good. I have a digital voltmeter inside the van which works fairly well. I've got a week away over christmas, ill see how it goes there and if its getting deeper discharge (lower votlages) than the old battery I get the Renology shunt.
Very cheap, but only 25A charge/discharge, with 50A max rating.
The main difference in price comes from what Amps a battery can deliver continiously (and peak).
This here is a great deal, just be aware that you should not pull more than 25A ~ 300W from it, and not charge with more than .. but for light loads and charged by one panel it's a great deal !
I must have lucked out.
I got two of these and they both were over 120Ah with two full charge cycles each.
240Ah @ 12V, 50A for $430 - good value…
Time will tell how much they decrease in capacity and how quickly, but I'm happy and won't be sending them back.
When in parallel they take 50 Amp continuous charge from 10.5V up to 14.2V using a renogy DC-DC converter without the BMS or cells getting too hot.
Good to hear. Mine arrived today but only have my Victron 5A available to charge so taking a while, so far put 50Ah into it. Will run a discharge tomorrow.
Just wish I could pop the top off without destroying the casing to have a look whats in there.
Did you see they updated the listing? Now its for a Queens 120Ah with 100A BMS, currently going for $289.99 with BFSNS (Plus) or SAVETH codes.
Guess they were dumping the old stock, though they still have the 120Ah Power Bolt's listed for more than the Queens.
Mine arrived today but I've not got the ability to test it out at the moment.
Noticed too that the listing was now Queens instead.. 100A BMS would have been good to get.
How did your testing go?
Haven't gotten round to it yet. Got a spare shunt and meter kicking around here somewhere that I haven't found yet but it finished charging after putting 61Ah into it.
The Queens was even cheaper yesterday with new codes, down to $265 for Plus but got visited by Jack and now $292/$299 :(
@bamzero: I almost bought again at $265 but when they jacked it I didn't buy. I'll see how these ones go for awhile.
@iratepirate: I was tempted but I doubt I need 50A draw let alone 100A anyway so I'll stick with this one for now too.
Found my meter last night. Used a constant load of around 18A and pulled 123Ah before the BMS shut down.
@bamzero: (Checking the current with my clamp meter when recharging I think my battery meter calibration was a bit out, but would have been around 120Ah if clamp meter was the more accurate one so still good result for the $)
Any recommendations for a good "ozbargain" lithium charger?
Depends on how you are going to use them.
Charged with solar / charged from a vehicle / charged from mains power?
Do you need them daily or just for camping trips?
What are you going to power with them?
Intermittent use - more for running the fridge on day trips/camping/shopping.
I have solar panels for charging off-grid/camping.
I saw this today, and bought, the Victron Blue Smart IP65s Battery Charger 12V 5A SLA LifePO4 $96 (https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/815063) and decided to buy as I'm keen to start using the battery asap in preparation for a trip.
I don't need fast charging at home so 5A is fine.
@MrMiser: Good charger to have around the house anyway. If you aren't draining your battery too much (running a fridge for a few days wont) its not too bad recharging at that rate.
What solar reg do you have? I have a Victron 75/15 on my other battery and a 100/20 for this battery. Spent enough on those so rather than spend hundreds more on another 15A or 20A charger, I bought one of these 24V/10A power supplies for $20. I feed it into the PV input and can max the output of the solar reg when I need to recharge quicker at home. If your reg has high enough output might be another option for you.
You can parallel your chargers too, I had the 100/20 and IP65s connected together to recharge this battery at 25A.
![[eBay Plus] 12V 110Ah Lithium Iron Battery LiFePO4 $216.30 Delivered @ Outbax eBay](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/94/816094.jpg?h=bb3147fa)
Cheap enough that you cant really go wrong for casual/weekend use and such… Just be mindful you get what you pay for, don't expect 5 years life or a good ongoing 110Ah, and such …
Some info on the last deal:
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/814465
(if you're looking for a battery for remote-travel or big-lap use, or such, get something better)