This was posted 5 months 2 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

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[Waitlist] $7000 Off 2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E (Basic Models), Starting from $72,990 + On Road Costs @ Ford Australia

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[Waitlist] $7000 Off 2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E (Basic Models), Starting from $72,990 + On Road Costs @ Ford Australia
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E5TOQUE on 07/12/2023 - 15:19 ford.com.au (8795 clicks)
Last edited 07/12/2023 - 20:46 by 2 other users

Ford Australia has dropped the price of the Mustang Mach-E by up to $7000

  • 2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E Select: $72,990 (-$7000) (This is the pick of all the models in my opinion)
  • 2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium: $86,990 (-$4675)
  • 2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E GT: $104,990 (-$2675)

State EV Rebates

  • Queensland = $6000
  • South Australia = $3000
  • Western Australia = $3000
  • Tasmania = $2000

Power/Torque

  • Mustang Mach-E Select RWD: 198kW / 430Nm
  • Mustang Mach-E Premium RWD: 216kW / 430Nm
  • Mustang Mach-E GT AWD: 358kW / 860Nm

Battery Chemistry

  • Mustang Mach-E Select: 71kWh LFP Battery (Can be charged to 100% repeatedly with little degradation occurring)
  • Mustang Mach-E Premium: 91kWh NMC Battery (Likes to be charged to ~80 - 90% day to day, only charging 100% for long journeys)
  • Mustang Mach-E GT NMC 91kWh Battery (Likes to be charged to ~80 - 90% day to day, only charging 100% for long journeys)

Know your battery packs! LFP vs NMC

I'd recommend educating yourself. Youtube is a good place to start.
This is another reason why I would choose the Mach-E Select grade over the others.

LFP has no cobalt or nickel. See how this stuff is mined and by who (its done by children in a lot of cases).
LFP can be charged to 100% over and over again with little degradation occurring.
LFP has heavily reduced thermal runaway issues

Range

  • Mustang Mach-E Select: 470km
  • Mustang Mach-E Premium: 600km (When you factor in that you need to limit day to day charging to 80% on the NMC battery fitted to this car, it's the same day to day range you would get in the cheaper Select model. You just have the option of longer range on the odd occasions you charge up to 100%)
  • Mustang Mach-E GT: 490km

For people looking for an EV SUV that is similar in size/price/equipment to the Model Y, but don't want to buy a Tesla, this has now jumped to second place in my humble opinion.

Mustang Mach-E Select grade seem to be the one to go for as it comes just as fully equipped as the Model Y RWD, with a few extra things you can't get in the Tesla like:

  • Blind Spot Monitoring
  • Park Assist
  • Rear Cross Traffic Alert
  • Surround View Camera
  • Apple CarPlay
  • Android Auto
  • FordPass connectivity included for free (Tesla ask you to sign up to the $9.99 a month subscription)

There are extended wait times across Ford's model range. Please contact your local Ford Dealer for updated information on current availability.

For more information on the price drop and all the equipment see the article here:

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/2024-ford-mustang-mach…

Automotive Car Electric Vehicle Ford SUV

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closed Comments

              • Naigrabzo on 08/12/2023 - 10:07
                +1

                @keejoonc: Same: Size, comfort etc

                RAV4 better - ergonomics, range (1000km), reliability, longevity (15-20 years), battery warranty (10 years), price, colours, shape, brakes, etc etc etc

                In the end it's just better. Especially in Ozbargain where we are value focussed.

                • keejoonc on 08/12/2023 - 10:15
                  +3

                  @Naigrabzo: Performance? I think not.

                  Better reliability? ICE cars inherently have far more things that can go wrong and need maintaining - hybrids are even worse because it has even more things that can go wrong.

                  Brakes? you hardly need brakes on a lot of EV's.

                  What is better depends on the use case. For people who do a lot of long distance driving, yes I agree hybrids or ICE cars are still the way to go, but for a lot of people who mostly drive around the city and suburbs, EV's are WAY better. Close to zero maintenance required, low cost to run, instant torque which is perfect in city driving conditions.

                  Value-wise, you can't beat an EV on novated lease. You will end up paying similar amount to what you would be paying on an ICE car that's $10-20k cheaper.

                  • Naigrabzo on 09/12/2023 - 13:02
                    -2

                    @keejoonc: Can you show me some reliability data for EVs? They are more expensive to repair, insure and in the long run say 10 years, the costs will equalise if you take into account massive depreciation etc. Don't be so short sighted.

                    While your idea is good for someone driving small distances, I am not going to pay 70k for a car that I can't take road tripping. YMMV.

                    Also let me know how you feel about buying an 8 year old EV which has never been serviced.

                    • keejoonc on 11/12/2023 - 14:40

                      @Naigrabzo: And where's your data for massive depreciation of EVs? You are the one throwing claims without any data.

                      I never buy cars that old regardles of whether it's an EV or not.

                      Do you know why EV's don't require servicing? Obviously not, hence your comment.

                      Plenty of people still take EV's for road trips and don't have any issues. It's only those who regularly travel long distances where EV's may not work for their use case.

                      Plenty of people who did over 200,000kms on their Tesla's and still have decent range.

                      • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 15:13
                        +1

                        @keejoonc: @keejonc

                        Here is the 5 year data.
                        https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/how-much-more-electric…

                        Remember that once battery warranty runs out at 8 years, there will be sharp drop. I suspect 70% value will be gone at 8 years onwards. This MAch-E will be 80% gone by 8 years.

                        Imagine though yourself buying a 9 year old EV which has never been serviced, with a battery with unknown capacity. As you would already know, these batteries can't really be tested reliably for their remaining capacity. They can suddenly fail though; literally over night.

                        EVs definitely need servicing for tyres (very often actually), coolant, shocks, other moving parts, motor (check efficiency etc). Definitely less than ICE for sure!

                        The guy you are talking about with 200,000km on tesla had 14 motor replacements! 3 battery replacements. He might be a big fan of waiting while the car charges I don't know.

                        Plenty of people take evs on road trips and do have problems. Especially this Mach-E will have to wait in line to charge or deal with broken or malfunctioning chargers which won't talk to your car etc. Try doing a Syd to Melb trip and see.

                        • keejoonc on 11/12/2023 - 15:26

                          @Naigrabzo: What you presented is 5 year US data, not Australian data. I didn't know depreciation of Australian vehicles follow the US LOL

                          You seem to love throwing around bold claims based on your gut feel.

                          9 year ICE cars with engine oil leaking everwhere wouldn't be obvious to the average people unless inspected by an expert. You make it sound like old ICE cars are bullet proof, which is far from true.

                          What guy are you talking about because they guy I'm thinking about never had any motor replacement or battery replacement. Once again making bold assumptions.

                          Plenty don't have any issues with road trips. People having issues are those who never bothered to do any research to make sure an EV is right for their use case or haven't planned properly.

                          • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 15:31

                            @keejoonc: Mate, you asked for the data and I have given it to ya. We have to use the data we have.

                            What data have you got for me to substanciate your claims?? Thanks.

                            You can't plan for a broken charger in Albury on the way to Melbourne.

                            Also no ICE is bullet proof. Overall if you can save about 20k in equivalent ICE, you will be ahead in 20 years. Insurance, repair costs etc are heaps more for EV.

                            Imagine if you had an accident in this car, it will take months for the parts to come from the USA.

                            • keejoonc on 11/12/2023 - 15:41

                              @Naigrabzo: If there's no data, you don't make a claim you can't back it up with. Simple as that.

                              You make it sound like there's only one charger anywhere LOL Unless you are going somewhere very rural, there will be charger somewhere along the way and you can check on plugshare or respective charging app to see if it's broken. Sounds like planning to me.

                              Insurance is similar to what I was paying for my ICE BMW. So no, that doesn't hold true for me.

                              Haven't had an accident yet but a lot ICE cars experience delays as well with repairs (especially euro brands). That's not specific issue to an EV.

                              • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 16:07

                                @keejoonc: Hi , EVs are 20% more to insure. Why?? especially if they are simpler apparently less moving parts etc etc.

                                https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/electric-car-insurance-prem…

                                So far I am the only one backing up my claims with data. You are just providing some anecdotes about the high yield BMW etc.

                                Bring on the data my good sir. :)

                                • keejoonc on 11/12/2023 - 16:22

                                  @Naigrabzo: I think you would do well to read these.

                                  https://electricvehiclecouncil.com.au/news/top-10-electric-v…

                                  https://www.mynrma.com.au/electric-vehicles/basics/ev-myths

                                  Your car like Rav4 hybrid is probably the worst when it comes to maintenance. You go on about how great the range is and how cheap servicing is now under the capped servicingn plan but you don't bother to disclose that capped servicing only applies for 3-5 years. What after then? You will have to pay to maintain the normal ICE components as well as the hybrid system. Once warranty expires on your Rav4, do you think it's going to cheap to maintain it still? If your hybrid system or the battery fails, Toyota will charge you an arm and a leg for it. Oh and capped servicing doesn't include all maintenance items so don't be fooled into thinking it's cheap motoring.

                                  • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 16:32

                                    @keejoonc: Hi Toyota Hybrid battery is 10 years warranty. :) Battery replacement is $2500 if required.

                                    I already have a capped price Toyota. It includes everything. HAHA.

                                    I love the EV council article though. Gives one example of one car that lasted a long time. I can give one example of an ICE that lasted one million miles on a the same engine. Doesn't make it useful though does it?

                                    Once your Tesla or Mach-E warranty expires, then the true fun will begin.

                                    • keejoonc on 11/12/2023 - 16:49

                                      @Naigrabzo: 8 years vs 10 years. Big deal. $2500 for that puny battery sounds like a lot to me.

                                      Capped pricing does not include everything LOL How ironic that someone who claims to know so much about EV that he doesn't even own, doesn't even know what his own vehicle's servicing plan includes and does not include.

                                      How about you have a read of this?

                                      https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/toyota/main-site/page-data…

                                      Mate, if you check out Tesla groups on FB, there are plenty of people who put on a lof of miles on Teslas using it for ridesharing. It's a whole heap more useful than someone who keeps saying after x number of years, EV's will be worthless and batteries will die.

                                      • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 16:54
                                        -1

                                        @keejoonc: Do you own a Toyota? Do you have capped price servicing for it?

                                        I only pay $215 per 10-15k travelled for servicing.

                                        The document that you linked is a standard service agreement document. There is nothing wrong with these and they will always protect themselves with lawyers.

                                        I ask for evidence of EV longevity and you refer me to facebook groups?? Is this where you get your evidence from?

                                        Did you know that your Tesla battery replacement will be done with a refurb, even during your warranty period?

                                        • keejoonc on 11/12/2023 - 16:59
                                          +1

                                          @Naigrabzo: You are a bit clueless about cars aren't you? You haven't paid more than $215 because the items that aren't covered does not require replacing yet. Once your brake pads, rotors and other wear and tear items need replacing, they won't be covered. Duh. Oh and do you know why your capped pricing is only for 5 years max? Because it's when the expensive items on ICE cars will start breaking and need replacing. It's to trick the naive like you.

                                          I mentioned FB group in response to your comment about EV council article.

                                          https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batter…

                                          Don't care whether it's a refub as long as it works and the likelihood of that happening is slim to none.

                                          • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 17:07
                                            -1

                                            @keejoonc: Same with the EVs then. Expensive things will break after 4 years for Teslas. Just after warranty ends. Even during Warranty Tesla will give you refurb battery. :)

                                            Your brake pads and rotors are covered by your Tesla/Ford warranty is it?? These are consumables same for any car.

                                            No one cares whether you care or not about refurb battery but it is wrong to replace a failed battery with a refurb.

                                            I would very much doubt anyone is naive about ICE cars. Everyone has had experience with those. It's the EVs that people are naive about.

                                            • keejoonc on 11/12/2023 - 17:26
                                              +1

                                              @Naigrabzo: I will teach you another thing today. Rotors and pads don't really need replacing in a Tesla (don't know about Ford) because you hardly ever use the mechanical brake.

                                              People who own an EV experienced both EV and ICE. You can't say the same.

        • Hackney on 09/12/2023 - 10:35

          For 72k that is the very top spec model! Ya clown!!

          • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 15:14
            -2

            @Hackney: 72k better be top spec for an EV. If it's less complex why more price? ;)

            • Hackney on 13/12/2023 - 09:12

              @Naigrabzo: I am talking about the price you quoted for a RAV Hybrid.

              • Naigrabzo on 14/12/2023 - 14:55

                @Hackney: Yeah go for it if you want to spend that much and not get the value. :)

                It certainly won't be a bargain that's for sure.

                • Hackney on 14/12/2023 - 16:27

                  @Naigrabzo: Not @ 72k it is not.

                  • Naigrabzo on 14/12/2023 - 18:34

                    @Hackney: Same for this vehicular I think. Unproven first gen car with questionable battery longevity.

    • E5TOQUE on 07/12/2023 - 15:31
      +6

      Some states get EV Rebates which helps lower the price.
      You need to remember that these EV's come fully loaded. Their 'base' models are just as equipped as a full-blown higher-grade ICE cars.

      People are spending similar coin on Ford Rangers, Toyota Hilux's, Land Cruisers, etc etc

      • MetalPhreak on 07/12/2023 - 22:54

        Where did you get the EV rebate info from?

        From what I know the WA rebate is $3500 but only if the dutiable value is under $70k. Did they add something new? The last model Y price drop means they are going bananas here as they sneak under.

        I’d be tempted if the gt was cheaper. Model 3 Long Range is a better proposition for performance (but has too many dumb design decisions for me). But i’m looking to replace my dinosaur juice loving Mustang with something electric but not boring which is not most prospective buyers. Then again i looked at the pricing for the new petrol models and it’s gone up a lot over the years…

      • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 16:08

        You cannot in your right mind compare a Ford ranger, Hilux or Land cruiser to this car or almost any EV; not especially to this one.

        Those above have huge towing, huge range and way larger and can take much more cargo with a very long track record and easy repairs.

    • mwahahaha on 07/12/2023 - 15:47
      +3

      If your company offers novated leases this could be (kinda) cheaper than an equivalent ICE car.

      If you get a non-plug-in hybrid Ford Escape for $47,923 monthly payments are $1388 on a novated lease. For the $72,990 Ford Mach E Select the monthly repayments are $1,126 according to Toyota Fleet's calculator

      Now I know the cars aren't exactly like for like and the plug-in hybrid Escape is eligible for the government's FBT discount. But if you want an EV and can work it around your lifestyle it's pretty compelling.

      • NinjaChicken on 07/12/2023 - 16:35
        +3

        You are 100% correct.

        I currently have a leased ICE car. It’s now 7 years old.

        I could lease a brand new Polestar, including all running costs for the same price as my old car, including all running costs.

        I’m not going to not have a car, so why wouldn’t I lease a brand new electric vehicle, for the same price (or less) than my old car?

        • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 16:09

          Have you taken the plunge then?

      • rickdwp on 08/12/2023 - 09:54

        Good in theory, but in practice whilst it might be a little cheaper the lease company takes the majority of ya savings and every one of them seems to be awful to deal with.

        The whole system around novated leases is corrupt bullshit

    • Aureus on 07/12/2023 - 15:49
      +2

      Are you comparing with a standard Mustang with similar performance? There are cheaper EVs if you are mostly concerned with ROI.

    • dji1111111 on 07/12/2023 - 16:10
      +8

      Dont understand why people keep comparing EVs to a cheaper, smaller ICE cars with less features and less performance and say they are too expensive

      • scphotos on 07/12/2023 - 16:33
        +6

        IQ mostly

  • nomoneynoproblems on 07/12/2023 - 15:27
    +25

    That’s a Mustang? Oh my boy…what have they done to you.

    • WSDtightwad on 07/12/2023 - 15:31

      Ford USA announced a few years back they were stopping making all cars, except Mustangs. Just SUVs and trucks only.

      Then among came the mach E… And it need to be car like. So it's a mustang in name only.

      • entropysbane on 07/12/2023 - 15:55
        +1

        I am sure it made sense to the marketing weenies.

        • WSDtightwad on 07/12/2023 - 17:09
          +1

          Exactly
          A car company that doesn't make cars.

          Trucks and SuVs are profitable in several ways, but apparently they don't have any corporate knowledge of the fuel crises of the 1970's.

    • BarrytheBargain on 07/12/2023 - 16:01
      +1

      Lol, it's so ugly I would only drive it at night. Alot of EV's they seem to be making them look different (i.e ugly) to show people they are EV's, rather than just making a normal car an ev.

      • cdaddy on 07/12/2023 - 22:59
        +2

        Yeah wtf is up with that. Make them look normal

        • klaw81 on 07/12/2023 - 23:15
          +1

          EVs tend to look at least a little different by necessity.

          A big open grille at the front is really bad for aerodynamics, so they have to cover it up somehow in order to get good efficiency. Similarly, wheel designs need to be designed for aerodynamics rather than brake cooling, so they often look rather different as well.

          • TopG on 08/12/2023 - 10:25

            @klaw81: There are some EV's which look good. E.g. Audi Q4 e-tron, Q8 e-tron, e-tron GT and Porsche Taycan

    • Ss-ss on 07/12/2023 - 16:25
      +1

      It's nothing like a mustang. Imagine the camaros getting overtaken by this at bathurst. They will crash laughing!

      • WSDtightwad on 07/12/2023 - 17:10

        They have stopped making Camaro's. What is going to be going around Bathurst in their place.

        • buckster on 08/12/2023 - 08:19
          +1

          Canyoneros?

  • hopper on 07/12/2023 - 15:28
    +1

    Shows me $79k+ base model for VIC, but model Y is only $72k+. I think tesla will have better resale vaule

    • E5TOQUE on 07/12/2023 - 15:32
      +4

      That will be drive away pricing.
      The prices listed in the post are before drive away costs for each state.

      There is roughly a $7000 advantage to the Tesla, but it is missing equipment that Ford gives you. So if you factor that extra standard equipment it helps reduce the gap somewhat. And some people just can't stand Elon Musk, or have no interest in buying a Tesla. So its a good solid alternative.

      • Blind Spot Monitoring
      • Park Assist
      • Rear Cross Traffic Alert
      • Surround View Camera
      • Apple CarPlay
      • Android Auto
      • FordPass connectivity included for free (Tesla ask you to sign up to the $9.99 a month subscription)
      • hopper on 07/12/2023 - 15:35
        +2

        Surround View Camera

        I thought tesla has more cams than any other car

        • E5TOQUE on 07/12/2023 - 15:36
          +1

          There are definitely camera's around Tesla's, but its not stitched together to give you a proper surround view system like you get on other brands like BYD, Ford, Hyundai, Kia, etc.

          • 00 on 07/12/2023 - 22:08
            -1

            @E5TOQUE: Look out through the windows?

          • UltimateAI on 08/12/2023 - 15:53
            +1

            @E5TOQUE: High Fidelity Park Assist, is allegedly included in the Christmas software update, due to release next week.
            Hope Aus gets this feature.

      • mrvaluepack on 07/12/2023 - 16:29
        -5

        Pretty sure every tesla comes with those 'extra' features! Lol

      • UltimateAI on 07/12/2023 - 16:32

        Good points, also worth noting that the Tesla Christmas Update added blind spot monitoring, you now get a red shade when an object has been detected (while your indicator is on).

        • buckster on 08/12/2023 - 08:21

          Hah, so basically no blindspot monitoring for half of people?

          Hopefully BMW doesn't adopt the same otherwise people will be paying a few thousand for a nonfunctional feature.

          • UltimateAI on 08/12/2023 - 15:52

            @buckster: Model 3 highland has the traditional LED system, but other models should get this new feature via software update. Tesla will tweak based on feed-back.
            This software release also adds the "High Fidelity Park Assist", feedback has been surprisingly good, but I am a bit skeptical as so far vision hasn't lived up to the expectations.

            Anyway the Christmas software release is due for public release next week.

      • scphotos on 07/12/2023 - 16:35
        +1

        Agree for the most part. The thing holding me back from most other EVs is the boot space.

        850L boot vs 400L… I'll be going the Model Y I think (test driving Monday)

        • E5TOQUE on 08/12/2023 - 06:08
          +1

          Tesla don’t do use the VDA measurements that other brands use. So it’s not a proper 1:1

          My understanding is Tesla measure their boot capacity to the roof. Where most other brands measure capacity to the window line.

          You would be best to go with a measuring tape to compare properly between Model Y and Mach-E

          • scphotos on 08/12/2023 - 09:54

            @E5TOQUE: Interesting!

            There's a guy that does banana box tests which is a good indicator of usable space… Turns out the Ioniq 5 has more space than the Y.

            Mercedes EQV 13/35 (Info: 3rd row folded)
            Tesla Model X 5 seater 10+1/28
            Tesla Model Y (MIC) 2021 9+1/26
            Hyundai Ioniq 5 11+0/25
            Skoda Enyaq iV 10/25
            Volkswagen ID.4 9/25
            Citroën ë-SpaceTourer (M) 10/24 (Info: 3rd row folded)
            Audi Q4 e-tron 9/24
            BMW iX3 9/24
            Tesla Model S pre-facelift 8+2/24
            Tesla Model X 6 seater 9+1/23
            Ford Mustang Mach-E 8+1/23
            Audi e-tron 8+0/23
            Kia e-Soul 7/23
            Audi e-tron Sportback 7+0/23
            Mercedes-Benz EQA 6/23
            Kia e-Niro 8/22
            Tesla Model S facelift 8+0/22
            Xpeng G3 8/21
            Nissan Leaf 2018 7/21
            Volvo XC40 Recharge 7+0/21
            Kia Soul EV 6/21

  • Top G on 07/12/2023 - 15:30

    Elon Tusk so jelly rn

  • kev98 on 07/12/2023 - 15:30
    +4

    One weird looking mustang

    • Nugs on 07/12/2023 - 15:35
      +1

      it sure ain't no pony car
      .

      • rogsamsy on 07/12/2023 - 19:06

        A stain on the Mustang name.

  • mikeoxlarge on 07/12/2023 - 15:33

    Ill get one for 7k thanks

    • gezza90 on 07/12/2023 - 15:33

      And then sell it instantly for a profit.

      • easternculture on 07/12/2023 - 15:53
        +2

        Facebook marketplace be like "Is this still available?", "$5000 cash pickup right now"

  • [Deactivated] on 07/12/2023 - 15:33

    The dog, now mustang, plenty of 'Baba Yaga' here = John Wick Chapter 5

  • gezza90 on 07/12/2023 - 15:34
    -1

    Looks horrendous. Besides, I'd rather a third foot pedal. Yeah I'm that guy.

    • buckster on 08/12/2023 - 08:22

      Agreed, where are the reins? It's not a proper vehicle if it ain't on wooden wheels

  • RubenM on 07/12/2023 - 15:36
    +10

    I sell batteries for a living and I'd definitely pick LFP over NMC batteries!
    Longer life and much safer (also better for the environment and no conflict metals in them).
    The one downside is that they're slightly heavier and slightly bigger for the same capacity, which is why you can see a 20kWh difference between the two.
    With modern LFP batteries, you should probably get close to 4000 cycles before the battery is down to 80% capacity. This means that the battery will last you longer than the rest of the car will and assuming you do 1000km a week, it would last you 30 years.

    • E5TOQUE on 07/12/2023 - 15:50
      +4

      I tried my best to sumarise this in the OP.

      • LFP has no cobalt or nickel. See how this stuff is mined and by who (its done by children in a lot of cases).
      • LFP can be charged to 100% over and over again with little degradation occurring.
      • LFP has heavily reduced thermal runaway issues
      • LFP is less energy dence - therefore not traditionally good for performance EV's
      • LFP weighs more - therefore not normally good for Performance EV's
      • LFP batteries range is more impacted by sub 0c temperatures
      • NMC is more energy dence - therefore good for performance EV's
      • NMC is lighter - therefore good for performance EV's, or compact EV's that need long range
      • NMC contains cobalt and nickel… best avoided where possible
      • NMC can't be charged too 100% over and over again without heavy degradation issues
      • NMC batteries (due to being more energy dence) have much higher chance of thermal runaway

      It's worth noting that with the BYD Seal Performance launching with crazy power/acceleration figures with an LFP battery pack, a lot of the benefits that NMC packs used to have are being eroded away as LFP technology improves.

    • Naigrabzo on 07/12/2023 - 18:18
      +1

      Hi Ruben, there is no way that these batteries will last 30 years. :)

      No current battery will last 30 years actually.

      Are you talking about new physics?? If so, please elaborate.

      • RubenM on 07/12/2023 - 18:48

        Okay, yes, I meant to illustrate that degradation from use shouldn't be a concern.
        But you're correct that there are also time based factors to consider. :)

      • Grok on 07/12/2023 - 21:09

        Ok don’t use that metric, say a million miles.

        Boom! Game over for ICE in less than five years when EVs are much cheaper than ICE to make and buy.

        • Naigrabzo on 11/12/2023 - 16:10
          -1

          This million miles taken the a$$ of Elon is it? He just made that number up.

          • Grok on 12/12/2023 - 10:29
            +1

            @Naigrabzo: The battery in a Tesla will outlast an ICE engine multiple times, without maintenance.

            Most high efficiency ICE engines, especially from Europe are significantly worn at 100,000km and need significant maintenance but EV critics don’t see THAT.

            An ICE engine from anyone other than Toyota at 200,000 is a just waiting to implode. Overdue.

            The million miles is a calculation based on available recharge cycles on new batteries, so not out of anyones butt.

            • Hackney on 13/12/2023 - 15:24

              @Grok: that is absolutely BS, saying Toyota is the only one that is ok @ that mileage.Mazda,Nissan will do that kind of mileage with no issues,as will Ford Falcons, easily do 500,000kms +(that is just plain fact).You don’t seem to know much about what most modern cars are capable of.Surely you are not that naive?

              • klaw81 on 13/12/2023 - 17:34

                @Hackney: With next to no maintenance? I don't think so. The fact is that ICEs are very complex machines with lots of moving, wearing parts that need replacement, refurbishment or at very least frequent lubricant changes.

                Even the most reliable Toyota engines need a timing chain replacement every 150,000km or so, and so do most of the other brands too. A Falcon will almost certainly need a head gasket replacement before 250,000km, which is a pretty significant amount of work.

                They all need regular oil changes and replacement air and oil filters, drive belts and idlers replaced regularly, new spark plugs and/or ignition modules replaced occasionally, and pretty much every ICE passenger vehicle will need at least one replacement oil pump, water pump, power steering pump or alternator replacement before it hits 300,000km. And then there's added complexity where forced induction is fitted, and all the electronics and sensors associated with the intake, exhaust, emissions controls etc.

                And that's just the engine - we haven't even discussed all the common faults associated with gearboxes, clutches, differentials and CVs, and all the other bits and pieces of drivetrain.

                The number of passenger vehicles that reach 500,000km without the engine being regularly serviced, and without needing any significant mechanical work, are vanishingly small.

                EVs are not entirely immune. They still need occasional oil change in the gearbox (maybe 3 times in the vehicle's life) and will likely have electric motors for the power steering, heat pump or coolant pump fail at some point. However, these repairs are extremely simple and self-contained in comparison to ICEVs, where all these systems are tightly packed into the engine bay and each one relies on a half-dozen others.

                • Hackney on 14/12/2023 - 16:31

                  @klaw81: Err, head gasket needed before 250,000kms? No, not really, I have seen them go well beyond that with out a head gasket change.Alternators,yes.

              • Nom on 13/12/2023 - 19:03
                +1

                @Hackney: @Hackney the average age of the motoring fleet in Australia is between 10 and 11 years only. Most vehicles don't get anywhere close to 500,000K, they're dead long long before that.

              • Grok on 15/12/2023 - 10:08

                @Hackney: If you are going to diss on modern EVs then compare them to modern ICE cars not 10-50 year Falcons with agricultural engines that use massive amounts of fuel.

                NEW ICE engines are very stressed in order to be efficient and met regulations, especially the Euro cars, almost all euro cars have a PPF or a DPF these are very expensive to replace and don’t last forever. 200,000km for a modern efficient engine without significant maintenance costs doesn’t happen, with the exception of possibly Toyota but even they have gone downhill.

                And I haven’t even brought up transmissions, DSG type trannies have a short life, maybe 100k-200k max before you often have to throw them away such is the massive cost to repair. All to save 2% on fuel.

                But you are OK, drive an old Falcon that uses three times the fuel of modern cars at $2+ a litre.

                • Hackney on 16/12/2023 - 08:27

                  @Grok: I don’t ‘drive’ an old Falcon, just making a point.Toyota’s, Honda’s will still do up to 500,000 kms even today.There are many getting around with massive mileages on them. I also believe you have to have a mix of propulsion methods, whether it be EV,Hybrid,ICE or Hydrogen(but a big question mark remains on that one.)You have to give people a choice, not to be pushed into a certain method, which is what they are trying to do globally by subsidies & tax incentives.EV’s by themselves are definitely not the answer.

  • jackwilk on 07/12/2023 - 15:36

    Looks more like Tesla on steroids :)
    Anyone knows waiting times?

    • E5TOQUE on 07/12/2023 - 15:59

      Car is launching this month.
      Apparently plenty of stock available.

      • BarrytheBargain on 07/12/2023 - 16:02

        No surprise when it's that ugly. Makes the gen2 supercars mustang look good and that's pretty difficult.

  • virtualds on 07/12/2023 - 15:37

    I am in the market to buy a mid-size car (SUV/Sadan) within 5-6 months. Hybrid/Electric. Budget around 50k can stretch to 60k if it is absolutely worthy. I checked Atto 3 but it was average looking from inside. Kona hybrid was ok but windscreen being very narrow doesn't give good view of outside. I heard Kia EV5 and sportage hybrid would not be released soon. What options do I have? Any recommendation?

    • hopper on 07/12/2023 - 15:44
      -1

      If you can hold for 1 more year, volvo EX30 will be cheaper

      • E5TOQUE on 08/12/2023 - 06:10
        +1

        Volvo EX-30 is not midsized. It’s compact.
        Basically a compact hatch back.

    • Vavoom on 07/12/2023 - 15:46

      I have no personal experience with it apart from watching a couple of Youtube videos but how about a GWM Tank 300 Hybrid?

      • Naigrabzo on 07/12/2023 - 16:45

        I'd let GWM practice their hybrid tech for a few years. Toyota took about 10 years to get it right…

    • Kuro on 07/12/2023 - 15:53
      +1

      Novated lease? FBT exemption sort of covers the interest and lets u pay off car over x amount of years. Assume your employer offers it.

      • virtualds on 07/12/2023 - 16:10

        Yes. I will check it out

      • Nom on 08/12/2023 - 14:41

        Doesn't it more than cover the interest ? As a random example SGFleet use an interest rate of 10% - if you're saving 30% in tax then you should be way ahead ?

    • fvn on 07/12/2023 - 16:16
      +2

      I am waiting on the EV5, which is tipped to be priced around 60k (starting from). Looks great from the photos and videos online, and uses LFP batteries.

    • Naigrabzo on 07/12/2023 - 16:46
      -3

      Get a RAV4 hybrid. Go to a dealer and say you are willing to put down more than 1.5k to secure a faster delivery…. ;)

    • E5TOQUE on 08/12/2023 - 06:44
      +3

      Atto 3 and Kona are not mid sized. They are compact SUV’s. I personally wouldn’t waste my time with hybrids.

      Compact EV SUV’s ~$50,000 - $60,000

      • BYD Atto 3 (facelift rumored for 2024)
      • Hyundai Kona EV
      • Kia Niro EV (dealer demo, or negotiation)
      • KIA EV3 (launching late 2024)
      • Volvo EX30 (launching in early 2024)
      • Renault Megane E-Tech (available now)
      • Peugeot e-2008 (available now)
      • Toyota Urban SUV (revealing early 2024)
      • Suzuki EVX (revealing mid 2024)
      • Tesla Model A/2/Q (rumors of a reveal in 2024, launching 2025)
      • MG 4 (available now) (not strictly an SUV, but it does have increased ride height)

      Mid-size EV SUV’s ~$60,000

      • Tesla Model Y
      • Tesla Model Y refresh (rumored for late 2024)
      • Kia EV5 (launching mid 2024)
      • BYD Seal U (this is looking to be PHEV only in Australia. Launching mid 2024)
      • BYD Sea Lion 07 (not confirmed for Australia yet, should have more news in 2024)
      • BYD Song L (not confirmed for Australia yet, should have more news in 2024)
      • Cupra Tavascan (launching mid 2024)

      EV Sedans ~$60,000

      • BYD Seal Dynamic (available now)
      • BYD Seal Premium (available now)
      • Tesla Model 3 RWD (facelift launching January)

      What you should get?

      LFP battery pack should be a requirement. Which will help narrow down your list considerably
      —
      Electric sedans will give you the best bang for your buck. So take a serious look at BYD Seal Premium and Tesla Model 3 RWD.
      —-
      If you are happy with a compact SUV I would wait for Kia EV3 (assuming it gets an LFP pack), and the rumored BYD Atto 3 facelift
      —-
      If you want a proper mid-size SUV I would wait for mid 2024 as a lot will likely have happened by then in the market.
      - Kia EV5 will be out
      - Cupra Tavascan info should be out. It’s being made in China so there was talk about affordable prices and LFP packs.
      - More news on Model Y refresh should be out
      - More news on BYD’s future mid size SUV plans should be out.
      - If the refreshed Model Y is coming out, going by what Tesla did with the Model 3, there will be a price drop to move that old stock on before the facelift arrives.

      • quasar12 on 08/12/2023 - 15:08

        Thanks for sharing and spending the time to do a concise read with all the required information. I'm planning to buy an EV soon to replace my prius and tossing up between sedan (not enough boot) and the model Y which has poor price/value for just the added (albeit massive)storage.

        Based on your main post, what is the #1 SUV? I believe this is what you said:
        1.???
        2. Model Y
        3. This Ford

        • E5TOQUE on 08/12/2023 - 15:23
          +1

          There is no 'Best' EV SUV.
          Remember EV's have much better interior packaging over Hybird/ICE cars

          1. What type of battery do you want (LFP vs NMC). Do you even care?
          2. What sized SUV do you want?
          3. What are your 'must haves'?

          What boot size do you truly, actually need? keeping in mind the size of the Prius is:

          Prius Gen 3

          • 446L boot
          • 2700mm wheelbase

          Prius Gen 4

          • 457L boot
          • 2700mm wheelbase

          If you compare that to sedans with an LFP battery

          Tesla Model 3 RWD

          • 594L rear boot (inc under floor storage) + 88L front boot
          • 2875 mm wheelbase

          BYD Seal Premium RWD

          • 400L rear boot + 53L front boot
          • 2920mm wheelbase
          • quasar12 on 08/12/2023 - 19:40

            @E5TOQUE: Thanks for the detailed comparison, even listing my prius :D I test drove the revamped 2024 model 3 today, and had a good look at the boot. While the volume does matter, the problem I’m trying to solve is about putting suitcases into the car. In the case of the prius, I can also make large ones stand up, whereas it won’t work in the Model 3 due to the lower area. Given the volume differences, it might work out though - as I only eyeballed it.

            LFP all the way - didn’t realise Tesla Long Range models didn’t have it! Reconsidering my choice of long range! I guess it becomes a case of BYD Seal Premium and Model 3 2024 Base vs Model Y Base as it is not much more, although Model Y is on an older platform than model 3.

            I was mainly curious what your #1 was when you said this:
            “For people looking for an EV SUV that is similar in size/price/equipment to the Model Y, but don't want to buy a Tesla, this has now jumped to second place in my humble opinion.”

            • E5TOQUE on 09/12/2023 - 06:52
              +1

              @quasar12: Oh I meant the Mach-E Select has jumped to second place for me personally. Options are slim because I will only buy an EV with an LFP battery.

              1st: Model Y RWD
              2nd: Mustang Mach-E Select

              The Mach-E has equipment the Tesla’s don’t get, and some people can’t stand Elon Musk, or want to drive something that’s not a Tesla. So you could easily have the Mach-E jump to 1st place for some people in my view.

              If you want a compact SUV/ hatch with an LFP pack your options are:

              • BYD Atto 3 (facelift rumored for 2024)
              • MG 4 (facelift confirmed for mid 2024 - interior getting big upgrade)

              However over the next 12-18 months that’s likely to change as we have more LFP powered mid size and compact SUV’s arrive or confirmed for our market:

              • BYD Song L (personally love the look of this)
              • BYD Sea Lion 07
              • Kia EV5
              • Kia EV3
              • Tesla Model Y facelift
              • Tesla Model 2/A/Q reveal
              • Cupra Tavascan (coming out of China, but not 100% sure if it will have LFP)

              But best ‘bang for buck’ is still firmly with the EV sedans from Tesla and BYD. Especially the new Seal. It looks great and the asking price is very reasonable considering the equipment, range, performance you get.

              • BYD Seal Premium RWD
              • Tesla Model 3 RWD
              • quasar12 on 09/12/2023 - 17:40

                @E5TOQUE: Thanks, the seal premium is what I have in mind at the moment. Only problem is my wife who will drive it a lot prefers the driving profile of the teslas, especially the gentle start when 'one pedal' driving.

                The atto 3 and dolphin creep too quickly for her when getting out of the parking compared to the prius so I'm afraid the seal will be even worse as you'll likely need to feather the accelerator when parking

                • E5TOQUE on 09/12/2023 - 19:12

                  @quasar12: Haha Model 3 it is then!

                  I personally wouldn’t be buying a Model Y knowing that later in 2024 the refreshed one will likely be out.

                  And we will most likely have more information about Model 2/Q/A later in 2024 too. But I doubt it will be available to buy until 2025 at best. But if the announcement goes off with a bang, I suspect people will happily wait.

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