This was posted 6 months 7 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

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Free Plus Pack Upgrade or $4,000 - $12,000 off on Pre-Config Polestar 2/3/4 + Free Evnex Home Charger Installed @ Polestar

790
Free Plus Pack Upgrade or $4,000 - $12,000 off on Pre-Config Polestar 2/3/4 + Free Evnex Home Charger Installed @ Polestar
Go to Deal
beepboopbaap on 03/04/2025 - 21:23 polestar.com (5196 clicks)
Last edited 04/04/2025 - 10:33 by 1 other user

Looks like there's a discount and seasonal offer for all Polestar models

Example: Purchase any pre-configured Polestar 4 before 30 June 2025 and you’ll receive a complimentary Plus pack upgrade (worth $8000), or for non-Plus pack cars a $8000 discount, as well as an Evnex home charging solution, complete with installation.

Normally a pre-configured Polestar 4 Long Range Single Motor is more than $94,000 driveaway. Now:

NSW: $85,888
VIC: $85,820
ACT: $82,517
QLD: $83,761
SA: $85,270
WA: $87,267

Definitely on the expensive side and the specs probably aren't worth the RRP compared to other EVs but they do (at least in my opinion) have some great aesthetic.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-reviews/2025-polestar-4-rev…

Automotive Car Electric Vehicle Charger Evnex Polestar Electric Vehicle

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closed Comments

  • jalalii on 03/04/2025 - 21:24
    +46

    I reckon EVs are doomed at this price range with the potential competition from China (and Huawei!)

    • Kommodore on 03/04/2025 - 21:27
      +25

      Yeah there is new model and brand from China every month, hopefully they flood market and bring prices down and large used car market.

      Without this the normal players were happy to keep gouging like it was COVID still, I have zero sympathy. Only thing that might actually come down in price.

        • WhyAmICommenting on 03/04/2025 - 21:31
          +3

          Plenty of Chinese EV variety on the way..

        • TightAl on 03/04/2025 - 21:37
          +3

          Name a chinese manufacturer or industry that's done this, not some obscure niche item.

        • xrailgun on 03/04/2025 - 22:23
          +9

          want competition and variety in the market.

          complains about competition and variety in the market.

          I know you watch a lot of youtubers with "MBAs", but that clearly isn't the business model Chinese companies go for (so far). See: Xiaomi, Lenovo(Motorola), Haier, Hisense.

          Also, you're dreaming if you think companies like Geely, Xiaomi, BYD will topple each other and leave one monopoly in our lifetime.

        • V2L on 03/04/2025 - 22:52
          +11

          you realise polestar is Geely owned?

          i think some people have been watching too many youtube videos and bought into the narrative that all new chinese EVs are below cost and dumped because of some sinister authoritarian weaponised trade to take over the world

          • FujinShu on 03/04/2025 - 23:12
            +21

            @V2L: At this point, I’d love to believe that, because China is the least bad superpower AS OF NOW. America has gone down the shitter and is ramping up its autocratic tendencies, while Russia is continuously threatening Europeans with the help of America.

              • BlahBlahBlaah on 04/04/2025 - 06:25
                -5

                @opilot87: Gotta love how the hopeless dreamer post gets voted up while the post that makes sense here is voted down

                • BatmanAU on 04/04/2025 - 10:10
                  -4

                  @BlahBlahBlaah: It’s the OzBargainer way unfortunately. Only a few of us level headed, commonsense people on here anymore

            • 1st-Amendment on 04/04/2025 - 15:23

              @FujinShu:

              China is the least bad superpower

              CCP Bots in action again… Just for shits and giggles, what metric are you using to measure good and bad here?

              America has gone down the shitter and is ramping up its autocratic tendencies

              China is literally an autocratic, authoritarian, one party state. The mind boggles at the mental gymnastics you have to tell yourself to come to that conclusion.

              • FujinShu on 04/04/2025 - 17:10
                +1

                @1st-Amendment:

                China is literally an autocratic, authoritarian, one party state.

                Kinda like how the federal government is turning out right now.
                Especially with sweeping executive orders that are dismantling the current systems as we speak, it's only a matter of time until the Republicans either kick out all the other parties or forcibly absorb them into the GOP, creating a one-party state anyway.

                (And riddle me this, 1st-Amendment, why are countries with restricted free speech laws (when compared to America) freer than America?)

                • 1st-Amendment on 08/04/2025 - 14:05

                  @FujinShu:

                  Kinda like how the federal government is turning out right now.

                  Not at all. Only a Bot who gets their reality from the media would say something so ridiculous…

                  riddle me this, 1st-Amendment, why are countries with restricted free speech laws (when compared to America) freer than America?)

                  Well since you haven't defined 'freer' nor mentioned any of these 'countries' I can't really respond. What we do know is that the US is a lot 'freer' than China. Let's see you try your Trump hate on Xi Jinping inside China and see how that works out. Care to test your theory?

          • MDSUXKS on 04/04/2025 - 03:17
            +4

            @V2L: Haha true. They just know how to manufacture efficiently and cheaply also not happy just buy a overpriced Toyota that sell their products for almost half an hour the price in Japan 🇯🇵 with better tech. People got brainwashed that made in China is low quality subsidies from tbe government and forget taht out government put some billions dollar just recently to keep our aluminium competitive against US tariffs. Just buy whatever you want just leave other alone with their choices don't like mad ein chine just throw away 80% of your house hahah

            • 1st-Amendment on 04/04/2025 - 15:25
              -1

              @MDSUXKS:

              People got brainwashed that made in China is low quality

              By whom? Are you sure it wasn't the hundreds and hundreds of cheap shitty Chinese products people have bought over the years that are almost always terrible quality? Are you sure that had nothing to do with China's reputation for making cheap shit?

              • MDSUXKS on 06/04/2025 - 16:31
                +1

                @1st-Amendment: Yep like iPhones and all thousands of laptops monitors TV's and 70%of you house is cheap Chinese lol.

                • 1st-Amendment on 08/04/2025 - 13:59

                  @MDSUXKS:

                  and 70%of you house is cheap Chinese lol.

                  Exactly. It looks like we agree.

                  • screengreen17 on 09/04/2025 - 15:09

                    @1st-Amendment: @1st-Amendment it's sad to see that you're still spreading your brainwashed ideals, boggles my mind that you think you're the most well informed when all you do is bat for Trump.

                    • 1st-Amendment on 10/04/2025 - 08:31

                      @screengreen17:

                      your brainwashed ideals

                      Which ones? That China has a well-earned reputation for making cheap shit? I didn't invent this. And feel free to change my mind here. Name me the top Chinese companies that didn't steal or buy their ideas from the West. I'm happy to have my ideas challenged, can you day the same thing?

                      you're the most well informed when all you do is bat for Trump.

                      Once again you forgot to provide an argument…

                      • V2L on 10/04/2025 - 08:38

                        @1st-Amendment: tik tok's algo, huawei's phones, BYD's batteries
                        that's just at the top of my head and I haven't even had my coffee this morning or warmed up chatgpt

                        • 1st-Amendment on 10/04/2025 - 08:47

                          @V2L:

                          that's just at the top of my head

                          So the world's largest economy and you came up with three mediocre things that make no meaningful difference to the world. Are you ready for the list of things created in the West created as a comparison?

                          or warmed up chatgpt

                          Lol, point proven, and you didn't even realise what you did there…

                          But here, I'll do it for you:

                          'Does China have a reputation for making cheap shit?'

                          'China is often associated with mass production and affordability, which has led to a perception of "cheap" goods.'

                          • V2L on 10/04/2025 - 08:53

                            @1st-Amendment: every post you make you show us how little idea you have.
                            I threw those out as an example, you want a full list, you do your own research. you can warm up deepseek if you want, you must have thought you sounded smart with that one
                            tiktok is the hottest social media app that the americans are desperate to force a sale on - if you can't see the potential of tiktok and their algo then condolences to you
                            huawei is much more than a phone producer, the US big tech sees huawei as their biggest threat
                            BYD is only the biggest EV manufacturer in the world off their battery success, no biggie

                            'Does China have a reputation for making cheap shit?'

                            they produce what the market wants - you can only afford cheap shit, then sure that's what they will sell you

                            • 1st-Amendment on 10/04/2025 - 11:48
                              -1

                              @V2L:

                              every post you make you show us how little idea you have.

                              You said it so it's true. Awesome logic on display yet again…

                              do your own research

                              Gold!
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

                              The gifts keep on coming…

                              • screengreen17 on 10/04/2025 - 14:44

                                @1st-Amendment: @1st-Amendment, just wondering - what do you think of the current tariff situation?

                                • 1st-Amendment on 10/04/2025 - 19:45
                                  -2

                                  @screengreen17:

                                  what do you think of the current tariff situation?

                                  You didn't answer my last question https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16421959/redir

                                  I'll be happy to discuss this, but you need to show you are interested in honest discussion, not just throw your toys out of the pram when you hear information that doesn't fit in with your existing beliefs.

                                  This thread was about how China has a reputation for making cheap low-grade products which was earned from decades of producing cheap low-grade products. This is common knowledge that even ChatGPT knows it, so why you act surprised is beyond me. Of course this can change over time, but reputations are earned. Do you agree that China rightfully earned a reputation for creating cheap low-grade products?

        • triple675 on 04/04/2025 - 08:34
          +1

          Polestar is Chinese

      • Saku-kurata on 04/04/2025 - 09:53
        +1

        Agree. In free market the winners are the consumers.

    • beepboopbaap on 03/04/2025 - 21:31
      +24

      To be fair Polestar is majority owned by chinese companies and are produced in Geely factories in China. I think this is meant to be a premium brand similar to Volvo (also owned by Geely) vs. the Geely branded cars that are more of the mass market brand

      • jalalii on 03/04/2025 - 21:35
        +7

        As far as I see it, the su7 ultra at $72k usd is the benchmark and Polestar is no su7 ultra. Plenty of competition to go within the Chinese market itself.

        • whyisave on 03/04/2025 - 22:53
          +5

          Polestar 4 is a nice vehicle, with traditional dashboard (not only just a giant tablet) and the ability to use offline Google Maps. It's roomy inside. I've driven it. It does not have a rear window-screen, and so there's no real rear-view mirror, ie. it's just an OLED screen of the outside 'rear world' via a camera.

          As far as I know, Polestars need to go back to their manufacturer for any software update

          Still, with decent Zeekr, Deepal, Xpeng & Kia models at AU$ 50 - 65K , Polestars are indeed over-priced.

          • shake on 03/04/2025 - 23:16
            +4

            @whyisave: Upvoted you for the sensible comment on the car itself. However, I will add that Polestar most definitely DOES push OTA software updates (source - my friend owns one).

            • whyisave on 03/04/2025 - 23:31
              +6

              @shake: For a while, I was test-driving EVs, to get a feel for what is "the future", and out the KIA [EV5, EV9, GT6], MG [4 Excite], Tesla [YLR , YP] and Polestar [2, 4], … I liked the experience inside a Polestar and Kia EV5 was most practical.

              The fact that the Polestars can still 'cruise' while your foot is off the accelerator, is a big win for me.
              Plus the traditional gear-stick and dashboard, with map-view inside the console, is a another big win.

              The Polestar 2 handles well, but the rear seats are crampy for 3 people, and the centre console is not designed well.

              The Polestar 4 has a really nice design inside, but it is a wide vehicle and the OLED rear-view mirror hurt my eyes too.

              All of the Polestars have that 'Volvo aesthetic' and they are all over-priced (seeing its first-mover (dis)-advantage)

              • Agret on 03/04/2025 - 23:50
                +2

                @whyisave: Someone at work got a Cupra EV and let me have a drive of it, fun car to drive. Hot hatchback. You should give them a look.

                • whyisave on 04/04/2025 - 03:10
                  +1

                  @Agret: Was it the Cupra Born?

                  I enjoyed driving a MG 4 Excite, so I imagine the Cupra Born would be as zippy and compact.

              • Ooops on 04/04/2025 - 00:34
                +2

                @whyisave: I got an EV.

                Next EV I'll get, I will make sure it has no gear-stick.

              • MetalPhreak on 04/04/2025 - 00:41
                +1

                @whyisave: Do you mean coasting when off throttle? You can turn the regen off in most evs and they’ll coast the same way. I actually turned up the regen in my byd sealion 6 so it felt more like my petrol car with engine braking.

                The “one pedal” driving like in a tesla is certainly something you have to get used to (and then you might like it). I found it a bit off when i test drove one but could see myself getting used to it and liking it.

                • whyisave on 04/04/2025 - 03:08
                  +1

                  @MetalPhreak:

                  Do you mean coasting when off throttle? You can turn the regen off in most evs and they’ll coast the same way.

                  Yes, that's what I mean.

                  In a Tesla Model Y [LR and P], turning on the 'coasting' wasn't that smooth.
                  Sure, I could get "used to" to the 'one pedal' driving, … but then my foot has to constantly be 'alert', when I just want to rest to the side, ha.

                  • tp0 on 04/04/2025 - 12:34
                    +1

                    @whyisave: Tesla have finally added a reduced regen mode to the latest Model Y.

                    Unlike every other EV on the market Telsas are not able to perform regenerative braking when the brake pedal is pressed. This is due to a cost cutting measure that means the brake pedal is still mechanically linked to the friction braking system. That meant they had to perform all of their regenerative braking by lifting off the throttle.

                    Tesla fanboys will scream until they're blue that this is a good thing, but many don't like it and clearly Tesla have agreed and finally implemented a proper braking system on the new Model Y.

                    • whyisave on 04/04/2025 - 18:56

                      @tp0:

                      Tesla have finally added a reduced regen mode to the latest Model Y.

                      …but new Model Y, doesn't have the indicator and gear-shift stalks :-\

                      • tp0 on 04/04/2025 - 19:49
                        +1

                        @whyisave: They didn’t get rid of the indicator. They’ve realised that was a mistake. Gear selector gone however.

          • tunzafun001 on 03/04/2025 - 23:41
            +1

            @whyisave: Rear window has a bit of 'watering with Gatorade' about it.

          • BlahBlahBlaah on 04/04/2025 - 06:26
            -8

            @whyisave: They're all overpriced communist crap

        • tp0 on 04/04/2025 - 12:31

          Last I checked I can't buy an SU7 Ultra but I can purchase one of these lovely Polestars.

    • NinjaChicken on 03/04/2025 - 21:35
      +6

      with the potential competition from China

      Polestar is a Chinese brand…

      There will be an ongoing market for EVs in this price range, just as there is an ongoing market for ICE vehicles in this, and higher price ranges..

    • whitepuma on 03/04/2025 - 22:04
      +4

      i agree with this for now. However once the market starts to mature there will be a market for more premium or luxury EV's. Much like how with the ICE car's some people would prefer to buy an expensive mercedes or BMW, when there are more affordable great build quality jap cars out there.

      • BlahBlahBlaah on 04/04/2025 - 06:27
        -4

        Will never happen with EV's

        • whitepuma on 04/04/2025 - 08:36
          +1

          Agree to disagree

    • meong on 03/04/2025 - 22:43
      +3

      well the same Chinese companies producing cheap EV cars also own Polestar (Geely)…

      This is really like Honda and Acura or Toyota and Lexus.

      • modsec802 on 04/04/2025 - 08:38
        +8

        Model Y is a Chinese built car

          • teereb on 04/04/2025 - 10:47
            +1

            @Oxenfree123: Nah, not quite. Bulky in china, sent to other countries from China. Not a bad thing, just how it is.

            Tesla have a lot of hard plastic inside, not comfortable at all imo.
            Comfort is subjective though, so if that's what you prefer, have it.

            • Broomstick on 04/04/2025 - 11:52
              +1

              @teereb: All of this guys comments are towards bashing Chinese EV's, Samsung and "Chinese junk". Maybe some kind of connection here hmm

          • Anubizz on 04/04/2025 - 12:02
            +3

            @Oxenfree123: Ouch when the reality hit.. You aware Chinese Tesla have better build quality than US Tesla right? Maybe Tesla USA need to check their own QC before doing QC for other country.

    • kungfuman on 04/04/2025 - 09:22

      for the price they are charging I expect it to do 0 to 100 in 3.8 seconds. And have level 2 autonomy. and a range of 600km or more, and be AWD. it only ticks one box

  • VincentQQ on 03/04/2025 - 21:44
    -1

    Have seen Indian EV cars in Australia as well. Really hope they will bring the price down. I cannot believe Tesla is still so expensive.

    • StonedWizard on 03/04/2025 - 21:49

      @vincentQQ - If it was a Deepal, they're Chinese.

      • VincentQQ on 03/04/2025 - 21:50
        +1

        Mahindra

        • hopper on 03/04/2025 - 22:13

          Is xuv a ev?

        • Ghogger on 03/04/2025 - 22:26

          Not an EV

          • VincentQQ on 03/04/2025 - 22:32
            -2

            @Ghogger: I must have been mistaken. When I saw it on the road, I wondered what brand it was. Since I didn’t see an exhaust, I thought it might be an EV.

        • easternculture on 04/04/2025 - 01:17

          Saw a few Mahindra here overseas. Solid car and must admit its a nice drive in rough road conditions. Kind of convinced to buy one now when im back

    • krisspy on 04/04/2025 - 06:38
      +1

      Are they though? Rav 4 hybrid on top trim is about the same price as a Model Y

      Model y is still the biggest, best valued 5 seater EV in the market, and it's not a Chinese company. There's a reason it's the best selling in Australia

  • Moderatoralvian on 03/04/2025 - 21:44

    How do you get these NSW & VIC driveaway prices? For examples, you wrote NSW: $83,263 but on the web page a pre-configured Polestar 4 Long Range Single Motor with free Plus pack is $85,888 driveaway for a private cash buyer, and a pre-configured Polestar 4 Long Range Dual Motor with $8000 in-lieu discount is $87,833 driveaway for a private cash buyer.

    • beepboopbaap on 03/04/2025 - 22:04
      +2

      There were cheaper cars but it looks like someone already purchased them? I'm looking now and you're right it's $85,888 at the lowest now. Or maybe they edited it?
      The discount still looks the same though hmmmm

      • Bimbobob on 03/04/2025 - 22:33

        Possibly was non-extras color?

  • ash2000 on 03/04/2025 - 21:48
    +8

    +1 for not being a Tesla.

    • Mike Nolan on 03/04/2025 - 22:14
      +2

      Why?

      • Spets on 03/04/2025 - 22:44
        +15

        Cos the media uploaded the new NPC update for him

        • 1st-Amendment on 04/04/2025 - 07:59

          The latest update was only a minor one. It simply did a find and replace for Orange_Man_Bad to Elon_Man_Bad. The rest of the script is exactly the same.

        • FallaM on 04/04/2025 - 12:13

          It's hilarious how people think Elon Musk is the big evil shadow figure behind the curtains and yet they'll happily buy a Chinese alternative where the CEO's of those companies oversee absurdly exploitative industry practices and god knows what else

        • caitsith01 on 04/04/2025 - 13:22
          +4

          Yeah, I hate how 'the media' made Musk repeatedly do nazi salutes followed by enacting key aspects of Project 2025 for Trump. Then 'the media' made him travel around the world abusing his wealth to try to buy election results for the far right. 'The media' sure are powerful.

          At this point if you actually think legitimate criticisms of Musk are the result of 'media' indoctrination you are on the level of anti-vaxxers. Ironically the main source of media manipulation in the west are (a) Fox (extremely right wing/pro-Trump/Musk) and (b) Twitter (literally owned and openly manipulated by Musk).

          • 1st-Amendment on 08/04/2025 - 14:08

            @caitsith01:

            Yeah, I hate how

            10 Print "Orange Man Bad"
            20 Print "Elon Man Bad"
            30 Goto 10

            Wake me up when you have something original to say…

    • whyisave on 03/04/2025 - 22:54
      +6

      You got negged hard.

      PS:
      Not by me.

    • rooster7777 on 04/04/2025 - 01:17
      +1

      seconded

  • xrailgun on 03/04/2025 - 21:57
    +6

    honestly don't see how this is worth almost double their own Geely EX5.

    • hopper on 03/04/2025 - 22:15

      Funny that both are childern of volvo

      • CocaKoala on 03/04/2025 - 23:32
        +5

        Funny that both are childern of volvo

        Not really. Volvo is owned by Geely.

        • Agret on 03/04/2025 - 23:51

          Polestar is owned by Geely too.

    • Ghogger on 03/04/2025 - 22:26
      +3

      Geely EX5 definitely the better option

    • boomramada on 04/04/2025 - 09:46

      One is Toyota and other is Lexus. Go test drive both then you see the difference.

      • whitelunchbag on 04/04/2025 - 12:08

        Funny how people just compare numbers on a screen to make conclusions

  • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2025 - 22:04
    +6

    Thanks to Chinese EVs Elo's Tesla plunges 36% in first quarter, worst performance for any period since 2022

    • SirFaffer on 03/04/2025 - 22:16
      +6

      That's why Trump brought in tarrifs I reckon. Trying to protect Elon from competition. Why else would Elon spend 200million+ on getting Trump elected? He wouldn't have done it if there was nothing in it for him. If he wanted to be charitable he could feed the starving.

        • V2L on 03/04/2025 - 22:56
          +5

          Trump isn't reading this bro

          • Captain Yobbo on 04/04/2025 - 13:07

            @V2L: Conversely, Elon doesn't read all of the cope & seethe every time a Tesla or Starlink deal is posted.

        • Agret on 03/04/2025 - 23:52
          +5

          They don't have the infrastructure for it, would take 10yrs to get some competitive output in most areas if they did have investors keen to start local manufacturing. Odds are they are holding out for the next election before doing anything long-term like that though.

          • rooster7777 on 04/04/2025 - 01:24
            +2

            @Agret: Agreed with the proviso that it doesn't really matter if they do have investors keen to start…. the ramping up time of industry takes a while… or a long time, depending on the industry.
            Without long term assurance of maintaining tariffs, and long lead in advice before they are imposed…. the result is making the local population pay more for products, or simply go without products, and depression.
            And even if it is all well planned with sufficient notice, while they create some jobs in the target industry, the overall effect on the american economy will be "back to the good old days of manufacturing of the 50s/60s…. but with a plunge in the standard of living because everything will be too expensive.

            • 1st-Amendment on 04/04/2025 - 08:24

              @rooster7777:

              the ramping up time of industry takes a while… or a long time, depending on the industry.

              Mostly depending on the regulations imposed by public servants with too much time on their hands.
              Top Gun was on again last night and I was reading up about the F14. It went from an idea to production in only 2 years. That only seems crazy quick because we are used everything being slow and hard and expensive these days. But it only got slow and hard and expensive because of the high regulatory environment we live in now.

              The idea that everything takes years and cost way too much is a direct result of government interference. If you want an example closer to home, try doing a major reno or house build and see how insanely hard and expensive everything is now.

              but with a plunge in the standard of living because everything will be too expensive.

              Only foreign things will be more expensive. If you produce most of your own stuff, which America did up until only a few years ago then it will be cheaper. Houses will be cheaper, food will be cheaper, gas (for them) will be cheaper. This is all most people care about.

              The anti-tariff people seem to think this is something new and invented by Trump. Everyone was already playing the tariff game for centuries, all Trump is doing is sharpening the pencil in his own country's favour. Exactly what every national leader should be doing instead of putting foreigners over their own citizens that they are paid to represent.

              • rooster7777 on 04/04/2025 - 10:56
                +1

                @1st-Amendment: @ 1st-Amendment
                "Mostly depending on the regulations imposed by public servants with too much time on their hands.
                Top Gun was on again last night and I was reading up about the F14. It went from an idea to production in only 2 years. That only seems crazy quick because we are used everything being slow and hard and expensive these days. But it only got slow and hard and expensive because of the high regulatory environment we live in now."

                Building the F14 was building something by an established industry, rather than building the industry then building items.

                "Only foreign things will be more expensive. If you produce most of your own stuff, which America did up until only a few years ago"

                only building foreign things, or things with foreign components will be more expensive…. but america hasn't built most of their stuff for more than 50 years, just like the rest of western countries. AND if they create the industry to build say…domestic appliances… they will NEVER be as cheap as imports. America has some pretty low wages at the bottom of the food chain, but still nowhere near as low as asian producers. Every toaster, every microwave, every oven or stove, every tv, every electronic entertainment device, every phone, every watch, every…. nearly everything… will be much more expensive.

                "Houses will be cheaper, food will be cheaper, gas (for them) will be cheaper".

                Very wrong. America (where most houses are timber, without brick) imports vast amounts of timber from canada , and significant amounts of raw and processed food from other countries. Gas… America drills a lot of oil, but not oil that their refineries require to produce petrol. They import virtually all the oil their refineries convert into petrol (heavy crude) because their refineries aren't the type required to process american light sweet oil…. and rebuilding or building new refineries would be immensely expensive. Canada is the biggest source of oil used in american refineries.

                "all Trump is doing is sharpening the pencil in his own country's favour"

                But he's not. He's killing america's export markets while the american cost of living will rise significantly. Citizens will be squeezed at both ends….employment and living costs. Selective tariffs can support existing uncompetitive local industries, but often only at an overall cost to the standard of living.

                An easy to see example can be found in australia's history. In the 1970s and 1980s australia had broad tariff protection across most commodities to protect a plethora of local industries like clothing, footwear, vehicles, electronics, steel making, foodstuffs, the list goes on and on and on. In combination with these tariffs were TCOs (tariff concessional orders) that lowered those tariffs to 2% on specifically described goods. The intent and basic effect was to remove the tariff barrier on goods that were not currently being produced in australia… and the description of those goods were very specific. Examples are floor tiles, that would have significant tariffs up to a certain thickness, but 1mm thicker would have only 2%. Materials of certain gsm (grams per square meter) would have protection, but if 1 gsm heavier would have only 2%. If australian industries made a case that they could locally produce those goods, then they would likely get tariff protection.

                While this lowered unnecessary tariff costs significantly, it did create a significant industry with significant costs in the import regulation workforce… legions of in some cases expensively trained customs officer examining vast amounts of imports to assess the appropriate classification and thus duty…and a corresponding army of private industry customs agents representing importers, dealing with customs.

                Costly, but far more productive than blanket tariffs like trump has instantly imposed, which won't instantly create local industry and local products as substitutes. When keating swept away 95% of that australian tariff protection significant local industry died….most clearly in clothing and footwear…. but the cost of living dropped significantly at the same time. Jeans and runners no longer cost a week's pay for younger folk. Car protection tariffs were reduced more slowly, and australians had access to a lot of cheaper but good cars, at the same time as australian cars started becoming more sophisticated and competitive. Datsun 1600s were an example of cheap but good.

                Your views on the australian car industry may go either way…. regretting abbot's cutting of subsidies (because due to trade agreements australia couldn't impose tariffs on imports, so subsidised local industry instead)….. or applauding removal of subsidies, which had the same effect as removing tariffs. Australia lost significant local manufacturing industry that supported the car industry, but prices came down down to a point where the australian car market is about the most competitive in the world, with the most models sold into the market of anywhere.

                But the historic protection on the australian car industry was a very specific sharp scalpel of a tariff…. seeking to protect an existing australian industry. Trump's broad brush tariffs on everything aren't surgically protecting or assisting anything….they will debilitate the whole country, and world trade. Recessions are coming.

                It's modern economics 101 that the lower the cost of items and the freer the trade, the more efficient and bigger is the economy in developed nations. Countries don't line up applying for the trade sanctions that russia faces because it's good for their economies.

                I think I'm done… but good to chat.

                • Spec on 04/04/2025 - 13:58

                  @rooster7777: I'd like to quietly point out the last time I had a debate with this person, he lamented that Starlink is the best invention ever made by man to bring prosperity across the world and Elon is a genius who will be held in the annuls of history as the greatest man that ever lived so I'd subtly persuade you to give up on a lost cause.

                • 1st-Amendment on 04/04/2025 - 14:50

                  @rooster7777:

                  Building the F14 was building something by an established industry, rather than building the industry then building items.

                  The US has quite a lot of existing industry, the largest in the world next to China. It's also still the world's largest innovator. None of this is a problem.
                  And how do you think new industry starts if you don't provide an environment for it to flourish? Do you just allow it to keep trickling away until your country is poor? Is that good economic management to you?

                  things with foreign components will be more expensive…

                  Some will some won't. You know that tariffs have been a thing for hundreds of years. You speak like Trump just invented them.

                  Trump's broad brush tariffs on everything aren't surgically protecting or assisting anything

                  You can't possibly know what the end game is here.

                  It's modern economics 101 that the lower the cost of items and the freer the trade, the more efficient and bigger is the economy in developed nations.

                  Free(r) trade implies that your competition isn't putting tariffs on you, which it is. So what you seem to be complaining about is that everyone is ok to use tariffs but if Orange man does it, its bad?

                  I think I'm done

                  Let me know why you only just started to protest tariffs once Trump mentioned them, and not any other day in your life when they existed. You conveniently missed that part in your response. It's like the media told you to be upset about the thing, so you were upset about the thing.

              • [Deactivated] on 04/04/2025 - 11:35

                @1st-Amendment:

                see how insanely hard and expensive everything is now.

                The construction companies are colluding to push up costs. It costs a lot to bring in a skilled tradesman now, are they earning that or is their employer?

                • 1st-Amendment on 04/04/2025 - 13:49

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  The construction companies are colluding

                  Evidence please.

                  It costs a lot to bring in a skilled tradesman now, are they earning that or is their employer?

                  They earn some, their boss earns some, the insurance company earns some, their suppliers earn some, their delivery drivers earns some, the inspectors earn some, the person holding the stop go sign earns some, and all those people also need permits and insurances, and pay levies and taxes which all cost money.

                  Regulations cost money. It's comedy to watch people scream for more government interference then also complain when everything stars to cost a lot more.

                  • [Deactivated] on 04/04/2025 - 16:11

                    @1st-Amendment: There has been a recent increase in the price of tradespeople. The question is why have things changed? Are electricians really earning $150/hr today, or is their employer taking a larger share of their wage

                    The regulation has always been there, the middlemen have always been there. None of that explains why things have changed.

                    • 1st-Amendment on 04/04/2025 - 16:52

                      @[Deactivated]:

                      The regulation has always been there,

                      Well they haven't actually, there's now a lot more of them. Google NCC 2022 and NCC2025 for examples. Every few years there's more and more rules added to the pile. The simple increase in energy costs due to our crazy cult-like obsession with the weather has doubled in 10 years. They all add up. You can't demand that the government get involved in everything, then complain that everything costs too much. The government is the one making everything cost so much.

                      the middlemen have always been there.

                      There's also now more of them because the rules demand it. This all costs money.

                      None of that explains why things have changed.

                      It explains it quite well.

                      If you think it's builders are just gouging, why don't you become a builder and get rich? Why are so money builders going out of business if it's so easy?

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