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If you like the Koorong deals you'll love this one. Use the voucher code for $5 off at the checkout for a bunch of different colouring in page downloads. All are hand drawn pieces.
$5 off Voucher for Bible Colouring In Pages @ Sweet Honeycomb
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Associatedniphal on 20/07/2018 - 08:28 sweethoneycomb.com.au (1656 clicks)
Last edited 20/07/2018 - 19:50 by 2 other users
Last edited 20/07/2018 - 19:50 by 2 other users
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lol great call.
How is quoting biblical passages and history off topic? Because I didn't quote Leviticus?
I'm not religious due to having read the bible before, but thanks.
You must be great at parties.
Wow, take the Bible out of context to justify your own biased opinion much?
Instead of just quoting those two verses out of Exodus, why didn't you quote these ones too? Exodus 13:11-15 “After the Lord brings you into the land of the Canaanites and gives it to you, as he promised on oath to you and your ancestors, you are to give over to the Lord the first offspring of every womb. All the firstborn males of your livestock belong to the Lord. Redeem with a lamb every firstborn donkey, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem every firstborn among your sons. “In days to come, when your son asks you, ‘What does this mean?’ say to him, ‘With a mighty hand the Lord brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the Lord killed the firstborn of both people and animals in Egypt. This is why I sacrifice to the Lord the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.’
A whole nine chapters prior to those verses you're using to try to argue that the Bible supports human sacrifice!And again in Exodus 34:19-20 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons. “No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
I'm not even gonna bother replying to the rest of your comment, since it's just more of the same stuff. You're obviously just a troll who picks out only the verses that are relevant to your argument so you can "support" your biased agenda.
You say this is not the place for an epistemological debate, but you're the one who's ranted about it the most in these comments, maybe you should go find something better to do with your time.
The last line's irrelevant. I can tell it's Leviticus by it saying "I am the lord"
Really? looks like it's found in 13 other books. https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=%22I+a…
@tryagain: It was a joke. I thought that was relatively clear.
I haven't read the bible for a long time but I do remember like 2 or 3 books having the phrase I am the Lord so often that I found it funny
I came here for the comments…
Sharpen up those red pencils.
Can't I just send my kids to church with pencils so they can colour in pages of the bible for free?
yes, but you'd have to drop them off and pick them up, this they can do at home when you are too busy to interact with them, also handy when home broadband is dead and we can't use Fortnite as a child minding service.
http://www.biblesforaustralia.org.au/free-bible-order/
I think there are a few places to get free bibles. You also get other stuff with this. Yay!
Personal experience? You seem to have some serious hate going on, could understand it if it's the case though.
It is nationwide now because convicted archbishop says (profanity) F*** you I am not resigning!!
I am not a Christian and can proudly says that each & every religion is F***ed up. Everyone use their religion only for their own personal benefit and it is not hard to find fools to use for your own purpose in name of religion.
@Major Mess:
I am not the one who made a joke about and trivialised child abuse, I'll agree with you though that child abuse should be fought.Christianity is demonstrably a lie,
OK then, prove it.
and historically demonstrably evil
On what objective moral basis are you making that claim.
You would not have made the comment had you made any appropriate research into the subject.
Pretty confident in the fact I have more than you based on your comments thus far.
I agree that the convicted Catholic archbishop you are referring to should resign. But then to make the jump and claim that each and every religion is what you said is unwarranted IMO. No doubt there would be some who would use religion for their own personal benefit, but many don't (just like some use their job for own personal benefit, but a lot don't - the monetary/ other benefits their jobs bring are only secondary to many).
@tryagain:
This is not the place for an epistemological debate. But if you are interested in the truth. Why do we have no artefact that mentions "christian" until Codex Alexandrinus dated to the 5-8th Century? Instead we do have artefacts that mention "Chrestians"(including codex Sinaiticus), the followers of Jesus Chrestos, "Jesus the Good". "Chrestian" makes the writings of Justin Martyr make a lot more sense.A summary with links is available at the following link. There are a few others not mentioned. I have personally verified from the original sources, and you can too - they are all available online.
The religion seems to have come out of Egytptian tradition, via Philo of Alexandria and his understanding of the "logos" as a divine being born at creation, as the first son of God.
Chrestian Artefacts.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/chrestians%20christian…There is a production on youtube by truthsurge, which presents the work of Dennis MacDonald(Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at the Claremont School of Theology). His work involves the author of Mark using Homer to structure his document, and the associated parallels. Chrestians are brought up around Part 15.
As a Christian, you are probably best to have a quick look at part seven where the evidence is very hard to argue against.
Part 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJAcX_K5YA4&list=PL1D58C69D1…
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOzCMy9e5E&index=1&list=PL1…Bart Ehrman(James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) is very Christian friendly, and has authored many New York Times best sellers.
His was a Baptist minister and is now an atheist. He is sighted as an authority on the New Testament by many believing Christian scholars. A lot of his work is also available on youtube.Examining a Gospel Synopsis also helps.
http://sites.utoronto.ca/religion/synopsis/For a history on the Old Testament, a good start is to search on the "Epic of Gilgamesh", and the Babylonian/Persian origins of Judaism. No one existed in a vacuum.
You will find a lot of this information uncomfortable. That is due to "cognitive dissonance". Again searching for that on youtube will find some helpful presentations that may make the process more understandable.
I could have brought up slavery and many other negatives that have historically come from the bible teachings, but the actual history of origins is much more productive.
All the best in your quest.
Right, so just started with part 7 and…. I want that 8 mins of my life back, it was some flimsy evidence of one account's similarities to a previous story, let's assume that you can join the dot's he was drawing and the parallels between the two stories are entirely valid, and that a pretty big assumption.
Given the early oral transmission of scripture and invoking Occam's razor, it would suggest that the far more likely scenario would be that this one account was likely conflated with the previous story. This doesn't even come remotely close to "Christianity is demonstrably a lie"@tryagain: So the woman's name is a coincidence? You probably won't watch the rest, as the cognitive dissonance will be kicking pretty hard today, but the whole presentation shows a huge parallel.
There is at least one interview with Dennis MacDonald on youtube.
The evidence led me there before christmas, and I hadn't heard/seen Richard Carriers stuff. I have some of RC's stuff now, but he also seems to not have some of the other info I have come accross. There is simply so much info and it is oonly now with the internet that you can actuallly put it all in one place. I am not sure if one of the Messianic rebel leaders was an actual Jesus or not, so have no particularly strong belief if based on one, many or no historical identities. I have recently been looking at Josephus again, and the relationship with his Saulos(maybe Paul?), the Herodian leadership/temple, and the rebels and their powerful allies. Some of these allies had personal relationships with the Jerusalem leadership, and Paul as mentioned in the NT.
The Chrestians and the churches inability to show older texts, along with their history of destruction of the non Orthodox teachings is all very telling. I only realised last year that the Barbarians who sacked Rome were actually Aryan Christians re the losers at the Nicean Council. Constantine himself converted to Aryan later in his life. Because we have no originals and so many copies of copies of the Catholics own texts it is all a mess(Not referring to Bible copies of copies).
The discovery of Chrestians affected me for months(cognitive dissonance kicking in) - I wouldn't speculate anything, even when I tried. But I do have some ideas now. It was like thirty years ago when I first found the Gospel contradictions, and the dissonance and hurt that caused. It was terrible to realise that my family and those around me had lied. Mainly because of their ignorance in not being bothered to research this "most important" of subjects that isolated us from the world. The way logical thinking was discouraged cost me a lot, and left me checking myself for bigotry with every thought.
(profanity) yeah! Upvote!
There's also been a lot of cases of child abuse in public schools and the Australian defence forces don't exactly have a good record in preventing sexual assaults. If I follow you logic, presumably you would also advocate abolishing government schools and disbanding the military?
I went to a government school, we had a pedo, was exposed by Hinch and he then killed himself, many years too late.
We had a saying in year7, "get your backs against the wall, hear comes woody balls n all", he was our music teacher.
@garage sale: ]
"and he then killed himself"
At least there was a good outcome. I wish all pedos were executed. No mercy for pedos.
I hope he didn't get too many kids
What's the difference between this and just going to google and printing some?
These are approved by Jesus.
These ones are approved by Google.
Sundar Pichai (head of Google) said his company is more popular than Jesus these days. Or maybe that was John Lennon about the Beatles. It was definitely one those two.
To collect money
lol
The price by the looks of things.
You might be waiting a while. :)
and now….now fatwa has been declared upon thee for inciting desecration of the holy magic text which everyone knows is the literal, actual word of god and definitely not an amalgamation of stories from various sources…
Try googling https://www.google.com.au/search?q=quran+coloring+pages
Have been to highly rated Museum exhibitions in London & Kuala Lumpur of illustrated Quran. Very beautiful graphics & lettering - even for non-believers like me.
I presume no illustrations of Muhammad though right?
Or his 6 year old betrothed.
@manic: (Yeah that's why I said betrothed)But he did get off watching her play with her friends, and had other sex slaves for relief from the pressure it brought on.
They can only be coloured in black or white and same colour per page only.
"Holiday Fun" "The Bible"
Does not compute!How the hell does this have so many upvotes?
Voucher or not…. who pays for downloading colouring pages when you can find them on Google?
Well I guess they need to making a living too.
Out of misery
Misery, spare a thought for the Deliveroo, ubereats, delivery people.
I tell my son if he doesn't do well at school, that is his career path, and one day he will deliver a meal to a kid he hated at school, and that kid is having a party with hot babes while he has to cycle or scoot deliveries on a Saturday night ….
I think most of these upvotes are trolls.
why trolls ?
Colouring-in develops kids motor skills, and hand eye co-ordination.
Often once completed they are given to grand parents by the kids as gifts (sometimes even framed)who HAVE to display them so the kids see them during the next visit…. better this than "my little pony" or "ninja turtles".Colouring in is fine don't get me wrong. I know the benefits.
Just wondering why you can't just get colouring in images off Google?
I've looked and seen you can get some "as low as" $0 AUD which is the price you should pay but for other ones - $2.50 for 2 pages?The indoctrination into a vicious and violent religion somewhat counteracts the benefits of colouring.
There are much more wholesome things they could be colouring in, though I assume these will be completely whitewashed. The target audience hasn't quite developed the required hatred and bitterness yet.
You can also use it to teach them that people lie, and to encourage skepticism, critical thinking, and research.
@callum9999: Ease up mate, your making it sound like OP is trying to brainwash kids into joining ANTIFA or becoming feminists or something as isolating and completely self destructive as that nature?
This is just some colouring in activities for kids who will be more than likely drawing pictures of mermaids, princesses and unicorns over whatever's on the pages anyway.
The indoctrination into a vicious and violent religion
Yeah, there are constant news reports of the Christians in this country in regards to their viciousness and violence.
@tryagain: That is because modern christians have accepted the reasoning of the secular world and it's values, and no longer have the totalitarian power they had.
Open a history book about WWII or earlier(Northern Ireland could also be included).
@Major Mess: You are totally missing the point if Christianity was a "vicious and violent religion" then it would exhibit those symptoms here and now, but it doesn't, hence the premise is all wrong.
I am not saying that there has never been "vicious and violent" people who call themselves Christian as there obviously has been, just like there have been plenty of atheists who have been vicious and violent, but I don't also don't think that makes atheism a vicious and violent non-religion either.
And as atheism has no basis for objective moral values, I think a far stronger case can be made that secularisms values are actually from religion, most prominent atheists I think tend to agree with this too.
@tryagain: "constant new reports" typical generalisation,
first are the people Christian, how many are there, what % of the population do they represent, what re they doing that is violent in the name of their religion …
people need to work with facts and stats ….instead of the "trump" approach"
@tryagain: My comment answers your reply. Try looking online at what critics say. Going to those who agree with your current understanding are not going to reveal possible issues.
What the argument always come down to is that the only evidence Christians have as proof is a personal "feeling". That is it.
The answer to morals I always give to pastors is "I have to live with people". It always ends discussion on the subject, at least with Australian believers.
Your moral argument has been refuted so many times it is embarrassing.
Have a look at some episodes of the "Atheist Experience", where it has been done to death.Google search "objective moral values"
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=atheist+experience+object…Atheists Experience
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCprs0DXUS-refN1i8FkQkdg
@infinite: "your making it sound like OP is trying to brainwash kids "
That is exactly what they are trying to do.
So just watched the Atheists Experience on objective morality, and nothing new, they seem and even mention they are in agreement with Sam Harris who is the most prominent Athiest in this regard, (most prominent atheists that I have read including Hitchens disagree on this point).
Instead of watching the echo chamber that the Atheists Experience seems to be with them reiterating Sam Harris's views, probably better to watch a debate about it with the man himself, and where his views are challenged, not just with a whole heap of confirmation bias going on.
@tryagain: I have. Just like the youtube comments christians see the outcome one way and non christians the other. To me WLC is pure evil. To say about the death and abuse of children, oh well it will be all sorted in the next life is repulsive. If you want to see him blatantly lie, watch the debate with Lawrence Krauss. When he realises LK has no knowledge of the NT he starts stating the gospels were written down five years after the death of Jesus. No scholar believer or not makes a claim anything like that.
Have a look at the Craig, Bart Ehrman debate.
@Major Mess: I have watched most of the Krauss debates but found Krauss really hard work to listen too, to be honest, I am all for listening too other points of view but he really seems like a douche bag, do you have a link to the Craig comment? I don't recall it and couldn't sit through that much Krauss again to find it.
I haven't seen the Craig Ehrman debate yet but did read about in on commonsenseatheism he seems to be able to do a good job or analysing debates impartially and ironically is proof that not all non-Christians saw the Craig-Harris debate the other way. I'll make some time to watch the Ehrman one though.
Sounds like your opinion of WLC could be a pretty convenient ad hominem though to be able to ignore the content of what he say's.
@tryagain: I don't believe in God, no one has been able to explain what it is, I just don't understand why there would be one or many. His arguments require one.
I am not saying all would see that debate one way or the other, but generally. Time and again in the various debates, the comments fall similar.
What about the woman's name in the truthsurge video? Several parallel events and then the same meaning given to the woman. A bit much to be a coincidence?
It is a lot of material to go through but there are just so many parallels. 12 bumbling disciples, 12 bumbling companions. Demons cast into pigs, Odyssesy's companions turned into pigs, heaps of them. Even biblical scholars mention the use of Homer(not parallel), but it hadn't been looked at as thoroughly until MacDonald.
Are you aware that the other gospels were based on Mark?
All of this is really moot when we have artefacts of an earlier religion that was adapted to become Christianity.
PS I dont believe there are actual "objective morals". There cannot be, but we have to live together and that is why what we have exists. Evil exists when it affects people - good is that which limits evil - that is it, no more required. Let's get on with working with what we have and making the world a better place. I live in a real world and while hypertheticals can be interesting, they are what they are.
@Major Mess: Did you have the Craig quote? Yes, there are some similarities with earlier religions, that is still far from it being proven demonstrably false like you claimed.
@tryagain: The Bible is packed full of violence. If the fake Christians living today reject that then great.
@tryagain: "Yes, there are some similarities with earlier religions, that is still far from it being proven demonstrably false like you claimed."
What are you talking about? I have made no reference to the similarities with other religions. The video does not make that claim either. I am asking about the parallels in Part 7 of truthsurge's videos, which you stated you watched and complained about. Obviously you did not watch it. I just don't get why Christianity makes people adverse to looking at evidence.
To make it easy start at 6 minutes, and then you only have to "waste" 2 minutes of your life on something factual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJAcX_K5YA4&list=PL1D58C69D1…
His whole presentation is full of similar findings.You can then search to verify what he states. If you have no luck I will reply with a google search for you.
As far as evidence goes, there is heaps, even the small amount presented today is damning. Doesn't the fact that there is no evidence of Christians until the 5-8th century, but do have physical evidence of Chrestians seem kind of odd?
Geez, I told you the debate was Krauss and Craig. It is on youtube. You are the Craig fan, and I am not going to sit through him tying himself in knots to find it.
@callum9999: So much wrong in just one sentence, but I'll just point out that there is a big difference between descriptive and prescriptive.
What are you talking about? I have made no reference to the similarities with other religions. The video does not make that claim either. I am asking about the parallels
Parallels/similarities close enough to the same thing.
Obviously you did not watch it. I just don't get why Christianity makes people adverse to looking at evidence.
Now you're jumping to baseless assumptions, what was that you were saying about evidence, yes I watched it and I still want my 8 mins back. If you remember I even critiqued and assumed it was all correct and it was still a long long way short of backing up your claim.
Doesn't the fact that there is no evidence of Christians until the 5-8th century, but do have physical evidence of Christians seem kind of odd?
"facts" require proof, that is just an assertion, and an incorrect one at that. Here is a link to a Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_early_Christianity page because facts have proof.
Geez, I told you the debate was Krauss and Craig. It is on youtube.
They have actually had 4, you made the claim and I am calling BS on it, at least in the way you stated. If it existed it would be easy for me to find with a google search which. It's kind of ironic you calling him a blatant liar based on what so far appears to be one.
I like that advice, which I followed and became a Christian as a result (after much questioning/ researching). My family now serve at a local Christian church each week which heavily involves in meeting the needs of for the poor, the marginalized (esp. refugees) (and we distinguish ourselves from Catholics - the 2 are not the same), and I teach Scripture in a public school as a volunteer over the last 8 years. True critical objective thinking is the key to finding truth, though the problem is that it is easy to believe one is objective when one isn't. That's what my education led me to, and what I try my best to live by (though not always achieved).
@slimdusty: Sorry, not sure what you mean. Are you agreeing faith is not a good path to the truth? As in I could have faith white people are better than asian poeple. Or believe the bible says someone is being punished because of the sins of there 4th generation ancestor. etc Or that my religion is true and yours is not?
If you agree the bible is not at least wholly the word of a god because of contradictions and evidence. How do you know which parts are the word of your god?
How do you deal with having to have a father confirm that god may ask them to kill the son at any moment(my earliest sunday school memory is Abraham and Isaac, and my father had to agree that it could happen)? How do you deal with the daily nightmares induced in small children, and what advice do you give the parents?
@tryagain: Sorry I did not get that you were agreeing the format of Mark is could at least be based on Homer's Odyssey. Being a William Lane Craig fan, you like him obviously accept evolution and an old earth - at least I agree on one subject with him too. Are you a progressive Christian that disregards any historicity claims in the Gospels, and recognise the forgeries? What about the material attributed to Paul and the author of Luke/Acts? Bart Erhman has a couple of testimonies on his blog from colleagues of his who are modern Christian scholars, who hold their faith and agree there is not much historicity in the bible. His wife is also still a christian. The fact that Paul does not claim to have seen a physical Jesus was news to me, and not what the churches encourage their congregation to believe. The fear of these facts by the various christian hierarchies and the way it is hidden, does their various church members a disservice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_early_Christianity -
The artefact does not contain the word Christian. As far as the article itself goes, even Wikipedia themselves do not claim to have accurate information, or articles that necessarily contain the truth. All they require is a published reference. So if I want to claim UFO's are true, I simply write an article pointing to a published work where someone claims to have been abducted. What Wikipedia can be helpful with is finding references. There were lots of different brands of "christian" into the fifth century, but what the evidence shows is they were based on, and calling themselves Chrestian, not Christian. Before the third century there was no such thing as the New Testament and the church fathers refer to the Old Testament as their sole scripture(Gospels existed- some 80 or so), and salvation was solely attained by works alone, at that time. To go against the Nicean orthodox catholics from the early fourth century would usually result in your death. Up until not much more than a hundred years ago, I would have faced death for what I have written on yjos web page. I gave you a link to a page with multiple references to Chrestian Artefacts. Including both Codex Sinaiticus, and "Tacitus on christians". where the attempt by the early church to hide the origin is blatantly obvious. When looking at these references you must look at the originals in their Greek. Most of these documents are managed by believing christians who because of their psychosis will interpret the "chrestian" as christian in the english translations. In the case of the two men overseeing Codex Sinaiticus at the British library, one in particular is a fundamentalist who has several books warning and demonstrating the work of Satan in the world. I have a relative who has written similar warning of the perils of Harry Potter. Codex Vaticanus and Bezae use the transitory "chreistian"re William Lane Craig - I made two claims of his statements. As a Christian I suppose you have no problem in regard to the suffering and death of innocents as a shame but it will be all sorted in the afterlife. That has come up in a few of his debates - he has a lot of them as a professional mass debater(meant as a joke, it was too obvious as I typed). So that leaves him misrepresenting the origin of NT texts. Cool to call me a liar. After thirty years of attacks, abuse, general bullying and lies. Along with the resulting twenty years of depression, I had realised I don't have to take it and always be the better person. I am demonstrably a better person than Jesus, or Yahweh, El, or which ever Canaanite god a person claims. But OK, I will find the reference.
Now how about a demonstration of the proof of your extraordinary claims?
A Greek iota and eta are not hard to recognise.
Note: the Chrome(and Firefox) browser can have issues at some of the document sites.
Edge seems the best.
Codex Sinaiticus Online
Acts 11:26, 26:28 and 1 Pet 4:16
The greek text on the right highlights"chrestian" in blue. Zoom in on the photo of the original.
"Tacitus on christians" (Latin)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#Christians_a…
The infrared photo is also available on the web.Oxyrhynchus Online
http://www.papyrology.ox.ac.uk/POxy/List of most of the discovered Chrestian artefacts.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/chrestians%20christian…Exorcism Spell - "Magical Papyri" (4th Century)
"Excellent rite for driving out daimons: Formula to be spoken over his head:
Place olive branches before him,and stand behind him and say:
“Hail, God of Abraham; hail, God of Isaac; hail, God of Jacob;
Jesus Chrestos, the Holy Spirit, the Son of the Father,
who is above the Seven, who is within the Seven………"epistles by Mani (4th Century)
"I Mani, the Apostle of [Je]su[s] Chrestos (xphctoc) and all the other brethren that are with me …."7th Nag Hammadi Codex (4th Century)
"But be diligent beloved, and come to the assistance of your brother; for thus it behooves your charity in "Chrest"SB XII 10772 - P.Oxy XXXVI 2785 n.2 (3rd/4th Century?)
"through Sotas the Chrestian"
"In this letter a certain Sotas is employed by the author to transport some money from Antioch to Oxyrhynchus"P.Oxy.XLIII 3149 (5th Century?)
"I write to you, Apa Theon, I, Heras, a Chrestian, greetings in the Lord. I send your slave Heortasius. According to custom grant him anything that you have. This you will find from before the Lord."
There is a cross beside the text. Not the later cross, but the type used by ancients to mark a margin to denote a particuarly "good", or "useful" passage.SB XVI 12497 (3rd Century)
List of people nominationed to serve various liturgies in the Fayum. Among the nominess for the position of "supervision of the water-tower and fountains of the metropolis", is the person labelled "Chrestian": "Antonios Dioscoros son of Origen, Alexandrian. A second hand, which provides brief notations of the occupations, abodes, or distinguishing characteristics of those liisted, notes "he is the Dioscoros (who is a) Chrestian."P.Oxy XLII 3035 (3rd Century)
An order from the head of the council of Oxyrhynchus to the police officers in a country village to arrest a man described as a "Chresian" (lines 4-5). No reason for the arrest is given(dated 28 February 256 CE). This text does not say christian or χρηστιανοι, but χρησιανοι ("Chresian")@tryagain: WLC's claim the gospels were written down 5 years after the crucifixion. Quote is at 1:15:30, and repeated. He starts telling other tall stories 5 minutes earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPvI222zj0UDon't worry about your proof. Seriously if you or anyone had any evidence beyond a "feeling" they would have a Nobel Peace Prize, and we all would know about it.
I will note your hypocrisy was showing criticising me for disliking WLC after having watched a lot of his debates, yet you are not interested in Krauss, and have not given him a chance. It is again, cognitive dissonance. You also accused me of making a joke about child abuse, where? If you agree that the bible cannot be trusted, is not others telling children it is historical, lying and abuse?
All I really want is for people to have a good look at why they believe the things they do.
PS:I forgot the Codex Sinaiticus Online link in the last post.
http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=51&ch…@Major Mess: In short, I think the bible and the gospels are largely accurate, yes there are obviously some stories that appear to be heavily influenced by previous text, but I don't find this overly surprising given the oral tradition, much less discredits the work as a whole. Whilst I do agree with a lot of what Craig has to say, I generally try to look at what is the consensus in a field says to discount peoples preconceived ideas and agendas.
Whilst the consensus isn't a guarantee of being right, it is a pretty good place to start, Gary Habermas is pretty much the go-to academic in this regard as he specialises in cataloguing and communicating trends among scholars in the field of historical Jesus and New Testament studies.
But i'll wait before I go on as I am unsure what you believe, do you think Jesus was a real person? Do you think the Gospels are in anyway real or just a total fabrication, etc etc. I would rather address your standpoint directly than go for a shotgun approach.
WLC's claim the gospels were written down 5 years after the crucifixion. Quote is at 1:15:30, and repeated. He starts telling other tall stories 5 minutes earlier.
As I suspected, no he doesn't, instead of rehashing it, if you go read the bit under the Bold "What do the New Testament writings prove?" https://theconversation.com/the-case-for-christ-whats-the-ev… you will see what he is referring to, it's not the gospels.
No hypocrisy on my behalf either, I have literally watched hours of his stuff, I think that is giving him enough chance, there are Atheists I'll happily listen too, Harris and Hitchens are two that I have enjoyed, but I find Krauss extremely obnoxious, I'd happily listen to someone else presenting his arguments though. There may well be some cognitive dissonance here, but it's not mine.
And for the record, where did I criticise you for not liking Craig. I insinuated that the reason you gave for not liking him seemed all a bit too convenient, not that you needed to like him.
You also accused me of making a joke about child abuse, where?
Here damion said "Can't I just send my kids to church with pencils so they can colour in pages of the bible for free?" to which you replied, "That would be Child Abuse."
If you agree that the bible cannot be trusted is not others telling children it is historical, lying and abuse?
That is a strawman, I have never said or agreed to that. There is plenty of evidence for the historical Jesus, and no, even if there wasn't it's not abuse, otherwise most people would be guilty of child abuse due to Santa, the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy etc etc. Your whole point here is just wrong and frankly probably offensive to some people who have actually suffered it. But I am sure like all the other things I have pointed out you will just move onto another point looking for a gotcha.
@Major Mess:
I'm saying that I like your advice on teaching about skepticism, critical thinking, and research, which are all important in figuring out truth. And that's the path I followed which led me to faith in Christ. People like Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell who wrote a number of books on the subject also came to faith through investigating Christianity as skeptics. In fact, their intention initially was to disprove Christianity, but unlike many closed-minded "skeptics" who claim to be open-minded and evidence-based in their approach, these guys actually did approach the evidence with integrity and objectivity, and that led them to faith.And it's not an uncommon story. There is a really smart guy at my church who topped the HSC in NSW in 1988 (whom I studied with in medicine at Uni who is now a gastroenterologist), who was an atheist in his first 2 years at University, and often challenged Christians in their beliefs, but decided to investigate the evidence of Christianity properly during the later part of his course, and concluded that Christianity is true, and became a Christian as a result during his University days, and has been running Christianity Explained courses ever since.
It's uncanny that you mentioned Abraham and Isaac; I just taught my Scripture class a 3 weeks ago about the incident where Abraham intended to sacrifice Isaac. Yes, it certainly can seem horrific, but the point of story is the questions - can God be trusted to bring about His good promises, and would Abraham trust Him? Years before that incident, God promised Abraham that His descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the sky, and yet his wife remained childless for the next 25 years. And when Isaac was finally born, God wanted Abraham to kill Him?! How could God keep His promise if Isaac was killed? Abraham didn't quite know, but Hebrews 11:17-19 tells us that Abraham reasoned that God is able to raise the dead to life again; this was how much he trusted God, and God has shown that He was indeed trustworthy through His providence of the ram, which is a clue pointing to Jesus - the ultimate sacrifice for sins of mankind.
I don't think I will convinced with so little, and I probably won't respond here much, but I hope you are a true critical thinker who won't jump to conclusion until you let the evidence speak for themselves first; and if you haven't read Strobel or McDowell, perhaps give that a go; they can be found easily via google. God bless.
Yes mate, that is the way.
"Thou shall put thy head into'st the sand."Cut from the same cloth, welcome aboard Junior, choo choo.
Thu church likes to suck them in at an early age :(
yeah, better not help your fellow man / person …..look after yourself and make as much money as you can .. see someone on the ground, don't help them up, see someone hungry, don't offer them food as it's better to stuff yourself as obesity rocks, etc,etc.
Kids can always learn moral values from the Xbox or smart phone games.
That's right, isolation and looking after your own is the Christian way.
You sound like an RE teacher
"Atheists have no morals because they have no reason to"
That is probably a strawman argument (without knowing what they actually said) The point is normally that they have no objective basis for morality.
heck, make yourself happy as you can't always make others happy, and when you are dead nothing matters ….
not my ideal about how to leave in society for many it is …. do you help others in distress or film it and your tube it to get some likes ….and move along.Living in a social fabric even atheists have a need to be moral if they are to have long term relationships, the problem is where is the morality learned ?
That was very touching
The church knows all about touching
Esp on young boys
Beautiful! Thanks for sharing
Not a reason to neg…
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Awesome passage. Thanks.
Aw there's none from Leviticus