What is God doing through the coronavirus? John Piper offers six biblical answers to that question, showing us that God is at work in this moment in history.
[Edit: The Kindle book normally retails at USD3.29 on Amazon US but is currently offered free through Crossway]
@inasero: Insulting tone? Who used the words "ridiculous" and "I am not interested" first?
My point is very simple: No one can prove or disprove that god is directly responsible for all the suffering in the world;
Therefore: your refutation of watwatwat's derision of a merciful god, posed as two rhetorical questions, is unsound.
@alvian: Alvian, I'm not attacking you personally, I was responding to your ridiculous argument. I hope you can see the difference between the two. I'm going to have to disengage from this debate now. Good day to you sir, I wish you all the best.
@inasero: By continuing to describe my argument as "ridiculous", you are implicitly continuing your attack, albeit not personally. But that is your prerogative. I wish you a safe and holy Easter.
Has the holocaust a wake up call too? What about the boxing day tsunami?
I guess God isn't powerful enough to give us a wake up call without killing 100,000 people (soon to be plenty more).
As cfuse said below:
It's not a bargain, it's a fishing expedition for fresh blood.
maybe God is alot more compassionate
If Pass-Over was as the bible said, I don't need to read anything to know he or she is not any of those. I still can't believe people still celebrate the biggest infanticide in human history.
Making many innocent people suffer. So compassionate.
"God works for the good of those that love him"….tell that to the 1000s dying per day in New York and Europe. Did those people not love God enough??
I can't follow someone's expression of logic when it's predicated on a belief in a deity. That predication is outside human's understanding of existence, so any thoughts that follow are void.
A child dies. Why did god allow it, how can he be so cruel?
A sports person wins a gold medal. I want to thank god for helping mi win this medal.
Ah yes, humans will be humans.
It relies on the old trope that there is grace in suffering, you know, the same excuse Mother Therese used to keep thousands of women in agonizing pain, denying them essential medicines and treatments because of her arcane belief that in their suffering the were closer to God.
As Nietzsche said, Christianity is slave morality
Watch out, it’s 2020 so I’m pretty sure you have to call it ‘they’ or ‘them’.
I think this sums it up pretty much around the logical fallacy of God being omnipotent and omniscient whilst being the root of all "Good".
According to Trump: 250 years ago, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ—whose full name, you know he was Jewish, so his full name might've been like 'Christowitz'—but God rose him from the dead on a holiday we now call Easter.It's when Jesus and the 2 Corinthians met the Easter Bunny and came back from the dead. So you know, it's a beautiful story. Very important for the Christians like me and I've decided, I'm announcing today: we are going to bring back the economy on Easter Sunday, because God who, to be honest, is you know, he’s a good God, he’s done some—some strong things—some (let’s be honest), his record is like not so great though… ahh… He brought one guy back on Easter Sunday and it was his son so it was kind of like biased. Not a lot of people know that, but it's called Easter. But we're going to bring back the entire economy on Easter Sunday and at that point, I think, basically I'm better than God. So when we do it, we're going to do it toughly, we're going to do it with great compassion, great strength, tremendous strength, and also, toughness. Easter Sunday, we're going to put it on pay per view, God vs. Trump: Who Brings Back More People on Easter Sunday. We're doing it, I'm going to fire Fauci probably on Good Friday and call it Great Friday for Trump and that's it. So let's do it
Captured his ramblings perfectly! Thanks for posting.
Made me laugh !
Brilliant stuff, mate! :D
And I don't know how many first-borns he killed in Egypt, I can do better with at least 100,000, surely my TV rating will shoot up again.
Logged in just to upvote this. Gold!
Great news in troubling times, thanks op.
Please ask God to magic it away
Woo
2 things that have absolutely nothing to do with each other. One spreads across the globe making people sick….wait……wait………..wait for it…….hold……hold.. and the other is corona virus.
But seriously folks, apart from giving the believers a bit of pretend comfort, religion has ZERO to do with finding a cure for corona virus.
Agreed, but what makes you think this book is referring to a cure?
Who cares?
The only fact is that religion has been immensely damaging in this pandemic, and its proponents are directly responsible for making the spread of this disease significantly worse than it might have already been.
Zealots today are still weaponising COVID-19 as a hate tool for racist bigotry, for discrimination against the already marginalised LGBTI community. As well as these both being, well, 100% evil, it is also slowing the acceptance of the science of disease prevention.
The only document connecting religion and COVID-19 I'd like to see is a name-and-shame indictment of the scumbag religious leaders who are responsible for these crimes. That'd be a helluva coffee table book.
Lol is this a joke post? Seems like churches around my area have been doing a heck of a lot to help the community at this time - free grocery deliveries, food pantries, councelling over the phone, seems like a bit of a generalisation there, mate. Mosques closed down asap, as did public places of worship.
Okay I might assume joke post and stop there.
IAM curious about the post, but no time to read, will have to be the audio book whilst working. thanks OP.
@AngusD: And the USA, and the hardline religious in Indonesia (Indonesia is about to pay a very heavy price, sadly)…
@Embaloo: Oh!
Well done to the good Christians and the good Muslims who did what the law required them to do. Big round of applause.
Also (and genuinely this time) well done, and thank you to all the churches and individuals who have helped others in times of need.
I'm calling out the institution, and the zealots.
I'd also like to remind all the virtue signalling xians that religion is not a requirement for doing good and charitable deeds. You don't have a monopoly on this, and I've seen a metric ton of good deeds and offers go out in this crisis that had no religious motivation whatsoever.
In my personal opinion, the institutional "bad deeds" far, far outweigh every single food delivery, counselling session, mercy mission etc ever made in the history of the world. Right now, today, religion is going to outright kill (via COVID-19) many, many more people than are saved by your local churches woolies drop-off.
@tardisx: Hmm interesting. Thanks tardisx. In many ways I agree with you! And in some ways I don't! I'd like to chat more but this ain't the place.
I agree tbh that all "bad deeds" performed by every individual and organisation throughout all history far outweighs the little good they can ever do. Not just institutions haha! I'd count myself in there too :)
Thanks for fleshing it out though, I now see where you are coming from and not just "angry joke post".
@Embaloo: Thanks Embaloo and tardisx for some of the most reasonable discussion on this webpage. Tardisx, I think you make an excellent point that we need to distinguish between so-called "Christians" who just associate with a church, and people who genuinely follow the teaching of Jesus Christ, living to honour God and love people (which of course means they will follow all government regulations, and probably go beyond what is required by law to keep other people safe and help them).
@Embaloo: Plenty of non-religious organisations that are doing the same and more.
Religion does not have a monopoly on altruism or ethics
@bchliu: It's true, I agree with you guys (and you corky) that it doesn't, did I say it did? But one of them certainly has designer brand ethics ;)
A Pastor caused a wave of covid19 go through one of his services in France. around 2,500 of his parishioners have contracted the virus. atleast 17 dead.
God works in mysterious ways……🤔
Australia's remarkable handling of the virus may be due to our lack of faith in God? How ironic.
The word you're looking for is science. The fact that we have "almost" separated ourselves from religion most definitely helps.
Now, if only we could bury that kiddie fiddler 6 feet underground, or better yet, let him rot in the deepest dungeon, that'd be absolutely fantastic!
Why would someone study science if it the universe is not ordered? To imply that things work in a meaningful way is to imply there is intelligence behind it.
Hmm, pretty sure there's plenty of people in leadership making decisions who do have faith in God, E.g. the Prime Minister? Remarkable conclusion to draw that it's a lack of faith that is responsible for our success. Seemingly based less on evidence and more on wanting it to be true.
If our PM is so religious, he would have prayed in a church but he didn't, he listened to his Chief Medical Officer and I think the latter is the man of SCIENCE.
@z28: But when it came to climate change induced bushfires all he had were thoughts and prayers. He also waited until after the weekend Hillsong had a massive conference to implement the tighter restrictions on gatherings and he gave Australia over to god during a prayer session he had in the PM's office. A leopard doesn't change its spots. He is still a god botherer and a prosperity gospellist and I suspect the only reason he is listening to the CMO is that the economic impacts of an uncontrolled outbreak are greater than the controls that have been implemented thus far.
@z28: What makes you think he isn't also praying? Faith and science aren't in opposition for me and I expect it is similar for scomo
@Gladioli: I meant he didn't pray IN THE CHURCH, he probably did that at home because he doesn't believe God can protect him from the virus.
Also economic impact/economy is another branch of science, he should ask for God's guidance instead of talking to these "wacky" scientists.
Got link?
(I apologise for asking for some evidence for this unsubstantiated claim. I guess all the negs are from people who just take things on blind faith?)
Thanks. :)
Thanks OP. Will definitely have a read/listen. God bless
He has been too busy working on Pell's appeal
So….he has time now? Or is the schedule still booked for 6+ months?
Gotta get those billable hours up!
Now he's turning his attention to getting Trump re-elected. "We are the nation of God"
Pretty sure you'll see that John Piper and George Pell believe in different Gods. Piper is protestant and clearly teachers that God loves everyone and wants all people to get to know him and trust him. If you don't want to, that's your choice, but this audiobook is a gift to help you to know God if you want to. I hope you take that opportunity.
Lol.. You can't even get your God consistent without bashing each other being Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox or whatever you label yourself. Because you can't even get the same consistency in interpretation of a made up fairy tale from mismatched Middle Eastern folklore.
That's part of the point, it matters who God is. It matters whether he approves more of pious people like the Pope and Pell. Or if he has provided a way for even the most broken people to be made whole again and that he is more excited about this prospect than having a whole boat load of people who never put a foot out of line.
but theres only one god…
Absolutely. The question is, who is he? I think you'll find the answer in the Bible, with God's help. Up to you to give it a go. Try asking him to reveal himself to you, and then read the Bible. Try starting with John's gospel.
Good God. Who do you believe in?
Coronavirus and Christ
I knew it wasn't the CIA.
I'm waiting for the Coronavirus and Harry Potter book
It was Gollum when he said… my precious.
Quite possible. There are Christian elements in the Harry Potter book series (particularly the last book).
https://youtu.be/MxySk24J_bs
Christians will find Christian elements in Quantum Mechanics and ignore the clear connection between Islam and Christianity. The mental acrobatics never ceases to amaze me.
You need faith, my child. And then you too shall see the flying spaghetti monster.
JK Rowling is a Christian (see video above) so it’s not surprising that elements of her worldview is incorporated in her books. As for Quantum Mechanics books it depends on the worldview of the authors.
Muhammad interacted with Christians from a young age so there’s definitely connections there.
So I can't just blow it away?
Give it a try n let us know?
Give it a paddlin'
Pray it away! Praying the gay away worked, right?
Thanks OP. Going to be an intestering read/listen.
What a pathetic piece of opportunistic drivel. I suspect the book has been published with every outbreak after a simple search and replace. Today's keyword being Coronavirus. Oh well, it's free, maybe I can rest my digital cup of coffee on it.
Jut read the whole thing. Here is the plot spoiler:
God put the physical world under a curse so that the physical horrors we see around us in diseases and calamities would become a vivid picture of how horrible sin is.
Thanks for reading. Is there a chapter why God thinks its cool to give babies cancer?
I will guess and say so that the physical horrors we see around us in diseases and calamities would become a vivid picture of how horrible sin is.
@[Deactivated]: Ahh… so would that be a lovely catchall answer that also covers why he really bloody hates people who live on fault lines? Always giving them earthquakes.
@[Deactivated]: Hmmmm. I'd say it all feels a wee bit arbitrary. Sin is an act so maybe God could be more even more effective if he was overtly seen to punish actual sinners rather than, you know, new born babies and people who happen to live in a certain location.
@[Deactivated]: I have sent 12 Euro's to the Church of Scientology on your behalf. I am assuming you're a Scientologist.. you seem more logical and credible than them Christians.
Is it really that short? 2 minute read?
That's just lazy from these guys, I was expecting at least 50 pages.
2 minutes too long for me. Never seen such a pile of pointless, nonsensical drivel
I hope COVID-19 spreads across the world, so we can all be with Jesus in Heaven again.
Thank you Lord for coronavirus.
I share my cup so that I may die and be with you sooner.
Amen.
You want to worship being alive and healthy? I will cause a disease which will kill millions.
Thanks!
"I will cause a disease which will kill millions."
Yeah, it's called 'death'..and it's been here a while now.
God said, "you want to worship athletes, …
So you are speaking on behalf of the old testament god now? You do know what fate awaits the false prophet, don't you?
If god wants to speak to us, it can sign up to OzBargain and speak for itself.
At this point maybe the dude would be better off just showing himself? Creating a virus in China to close a civic centre in australia seems like a really long way around to get to the same objective.
Amen brother.
Fan fiction. It's like a harry potter book but written by fans.
Imagine thinking a bronze age god of some goat herders has anything to say about Covid-19. Amazing fully grown adults think this stuff. Really show how sheltered and entitled people are.
I know people like to feel like they're special little sun beams, but you're adults. grow up ffs.
We all know Jesus didn't create the Corona Virus… Matt Groening did
Jesus isn't around cause he's making a killing flogging $60 p/litre hand-san in Bondi
This is not the time for religion. Science is the answer to the crisis, and this kind of thing is just a distraction.
Hehe quite a few of my scientist colleagues are praying while they do their work. Not so easily separable. They trust in the creator of the intricacies of nature whilst they have a bigger purpose through which to do their work.
Seeking comfort to your limitation is one thing, I respect quite a few doctors with faith I personally know. But as all the good Christian or other faith doctors I know of, none of them relies on prayers instead of professionalism, which was exactly what our pm did during the bush fire crisis, luckily he did slightly better this time, at least has been listening to the professionals and taking necessary actions accordingly.
Can we just ban posts like this?
It's not a bargain, it's a fishing expedition for fresh blood.
God bless you crazy Oz bargainers.
![[eBook, Audiobook] Free - Coronavirus and Christ by John Piper @ Crossway](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/56/529656.jpg?h=b35b125f)
@alvian: I believe you have missed my point. I use that as an example to illustrate that no one in their right mind (i.e. they have no mental illness or not using devious legal tactics to eschew personal responsibility) could argue that God is directly responsible for all the suffering in the world.
Also let's keep this discussion civil and respectful, as your insulting tone only serves to weaken your position.