I Bought a BYD Atto 3 So You Didn't Have Too. Anything You Would Like to Know About It?

pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 09:37
Last edited 13/10/2022 - 07:49

I ended up buying a BYD Atto 3, partially because I wanted an EV, somewhat because I didn't want a Tesla and mostly out of spite (As per that comment, it's even complete with wankery number plate). I wanted to put my money where my mouth is and buy one of these "cHiNa CaR bAd" EV's so maybe you don't have to.

I took delivery of it from Sydney (Castle Hill BYD) and promptly drove it back to work up the F4 freeway and back to work (About 200km journey). Consumption was ok (but there is no way this car is getting anywhere near the optimistic 480km range on the highway.) and used an average of about 17kWh/100km.

I ended up getting white, because I'm a tight arse and it was $0 for white ($700 for other colours) and it is not white. It's not even "Pearl White"… it's silver. For comparison, it was sitting next to a silver Navara at the dealership (they share with Nissan) and it was more silver than the Navara.

Quick thoughts

Fit and finish: Very good. I would absolutely say it was on a par with Kia and Hyundai. Seats are really nice. Dash material, not so much. Paint is all good and no massive panel gaps or piss poor painting.

Colours: Interior colours are much more muted and acceptable compared to the original LHD one they were showing in Darlinghurt. And as above, white is not "white".

Performance: About what you would expect from a 1.6 turbo, or a 2.0+ 4 cyl. engine, just way more torque. Regen is disappointing, it's either not enough, or too much. No one pedal driving.

Features: Yep, it's got them. Every anagram you can think of, it's there somewhere. Radar cruise is good and much better than the work Outlander. Lane Keep Assist is a little intrusive, but can be turned off. Cameras are amazingly clear.

Infotainment: Yep, well, that's a hot mess. No AA/ACP, (but AA can be side loaded for now.) Radio randomly reset volume when you turn vehicle off and on again. But all in all, LOTS of features and settings and it is a very snappy display with no lag.

Climate control: It works? All done through media control.

Ride comfort: Meh. Better than my Outlander, not as good as my Fiat. Around town and over bumps and rough surface, it's good. Around fast curves, it's a whale.

Economy: On the freeway/highway, not to bad, better than expected (expected 200~250km, got about 350km) around town, excellent. On one drive, I left home at 75%, got home with 76%.

Noise: Very quiet inside. It is very well insulated. It's no BMW 7 series, but it's certainly no Hyundai Accent. The "pedestrian warning" (drone noise up to 30km/h) feels like it resonates a bit, but swapping it from standard to dynamic helped. (I want a custom pedestrian warning noise.)

Size: Bigger than a Toyota Yaris Cross, a bit smaller than an Outlander. Interior is big compared to the outside would have you believe (I borrowed neighbors cat to swing around to test.) Seats are a good size, rear leg room is massive, boot space is, "average". not small, but not huge. I am 6'2" (188cm) and my head fit well within the car with a good 80~100mm between my head and the roof.

All in all, a really solid first impression. It drives well, is built well, handles on the upper side of "ok", power is good and range is not to bad… So, if you have any questions about the car, want to know anything or want a photos of something in particular, or just want to hang it on me for buying a Chinese EV, have at it.

Remember, I early adopted here so you don't have too, and I am not some paid off shill working for an auto review site/publication, so if it is a piece of shit, I'll say it, if it has issues, I'll certainly let you know and I am not here to defend the vehicle like some fanboi. To me, it is transport, not a love story. It's a family car, so it needs to be treated like one.

Edits and additions:

Total Cost: Some have asked me about what I paid for it, In NSW, the final price was $48,405.91. This included registration but not the stamp-duty. The stamp-duty rebate was done at the dealer for me. There is also a $3,000 EV rebate as well, that one you have to apply for online, and I have applied, but have not received it. After rebate, if/when I get it, it will be a total of $45,406 drive away.

Charging: I have a wall charger ready for install, but at the moment, I am living with a 10A granny charger. From 36% to 100%, the car estimated 24 hours on the 1.6kW granny. I plugged it in over night (8pm~8am) and it went from 36% to 75%. More than enough for an average day of town/city driving.

Pics or it didn't happen: Hold my beer fam… I got this…

Safety Features: I went and covered most of it in this reply

Servicing: This can be found on the BYD Aus website and I have talked about it somewhere around here

Price: $48,405.91 ($0 stamp duty and before $3,000 NSW EV rebate. For more info, I covered it here

Insurance: $884 full comp. through Budget Direct. More info on my "stats" for this price was mentioned here

Why an EV?: Because (fropanity) petrol companies! It had nothing to do with "saving the planet"

That rear badge: It's ok, you know I got your back on this…

Observations and Updates

First OTA updates have arrived: Info here

EV Incentive rebate was approved. Applied for it 16/9 and was approved 30/9. Payment arrived about 5 days after final approval.

Update on safety rating. Vehicle received Euro NCAP 5 star rating. ANCAP rating release in NZ (5 stars) still pending in Aus.

Automotive BYD Auto Car Electric Vehicle

Comments

  • GooseLord on 17/09/2022 - 09:40
    +9

    Interesting to see really, I'd always assumed they'd be kinda shite. But by the sounds of it, it's not that bad of a car

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 11:04
      +9

      On a scale from Lada to Toyota (I was going to say "from Renault/Peugeot" but that seemed to low of a scale), I would happily put them around about Kia/Hyundai at this point in terms of quality of fit and finish (not so much styling).

      I think these are going to be a bit like LDV/Haval/MG, where people write them off as being garbage, but when you finally get to have a closer inspection, they are actually quite nice cars. [InB4: What about that one guy who's LDV rusted out?? Well that's what he gets for parking a Chinese shitheap next to the ocean for months on end.)

      • mapax on 17/09/2022 - 11:06
        +5

        Would unironically take a lada niva over a Ren/Peu of similar price range.

        • macrocephalic on 18/09/2022 - 08:25
          +7

          A friend of mine lived in Russia in the 90s and he said there were people who specialised in taking brand new Nivas, disassembling them and reassembling them properly with all the problems fixed. If you bought a new Niva and just drove it around then you were considered an idiot, but if you had them reassembled properly then they lasted ages.

      • serpserpserp on 18/09/2022 - 08:54

        I would have laughed in Ford/Holden accent if someone told me to buy an MG EV 12 months ago, but after I drove a hire car version it was a pretty great, fun second car option. I think it should be a 40k car maximum but, with the sunroof etc it was fun to drive around brissy (although Brisbane is woeful for charging stations). If the fixed up some of the infotainment shortfalls it'd be even better. This year's long range model would be interesting to drive as I wouldn't want to try and drive to the GC and back off of one charge with Aircon on etc on the old model

    • pwnd on 19/09/2022 - 09:41
      +3

      Owner reviews, on average, tend to favour the owner to justify the purchase. OP also owns an outlander and a Fiat, so car decision making is not exactly "traditional"

      • pegaxs on 19/09/2022 - 12:22
        +18

        Fiat is fun car :D You cannot really call yourself a "car enthusiast" unless you have owned at least one Italian car… (And I am a mechanic and I like to tinker. The Fiat gives me plenty of opportunity to tinker.)

        Outlander is a car given to me by work. It was basically that or nothing. The Outlander is only just marginally better than "nothing" Just above "walking" and just below "Riding a horse".

        BYD was bought as an experience to see if "cHiNa cAr BaD" was a thing with BYD. I don't have to justify this purchase and I am certainly not a BYD fanboi.

        Just because my initial impressions have been positive and this goes against your "cHiNa CaR bAd" opinion, doesn't make me biased, a fanboi or wrong because I am "trying to justify my purchase", it's just my initial impression.

        I find that if any reviews are biased, it's car review sites. They have a vested interest in keeping the free long term loan cars coming in and those ad revenue dollars flowing. Two things I don't give a shit about. If I say something bad about my car, BYD isn't going to cancel its advertising and take back its long term loan car from me. And, if anything, I have found that if a car is a heap of shit, people have absolutely no problem letting everyone else know.

        So, my apologies if my initial expectations have been exceeded. I was expecting it to be a shitbox as well, so you are not the only one who was disappointed.

        • pwnd on 19/09/2022 - 17:07

          "this goes against your "cHiNa CaR bAd" opinion"
          Not sure where you feel I expressed this opinion. Own quite a few of China made items without complaint.
          I was merely pointing out that based on the cars you state you own, that your initial impression may be somewhat different compared to somebody that actually enjoys driving a car.
          Also, as I said, owner reviews tend to have the owners justify their purchases, and not be as critical. While that isn't always the case, I have several Tesla owner friends who continue to overlook and explain away what I think are some pretty shoddy build quality issues.
          Apart from that, really thorough review.

          • CairnsFella on 20/09/2022 - 09:51
            +1

            @pwnd: "your initial impression may be somewhat different compared to somebody that actually enjoys driving a car."

            Whilst your point may be valid, I would wager that a large number of potential and actual Atto 3 owners are people that want to get from A to B, take the kids to school, and go to the supermarket. In other words those for whom driving enjoyment is secondary to function. So whilst I am not sure you can entirely classify someone's driving personality by only their current car(s), and make the assumption that the Fiat is not an enjoyable one, even if you are correct then @pegaxs would seem ideally placed to provide an opinion.

            • pegaxs on 20/09/2022 - 10:13
              +2

              @CairnsFella:

              In other words those for whom driving enjoyment is secondary to function.

              Absolutely this. The Atto 3 for me isnt a "drivers car" it's a utility, a tool. It's only functions is to pass the butter get me from A to B. I didn't buy it with the intention of doing anything other than using it as a vehicle to get shit done.

              When I want to go out driving for the "enjoyment", that is why I have a Fiat 500. Goes like a scalded cat, handles like it is on rails and feels like a road registered go-kart and then I get to come home and tend to its needs. So, I do "enjoy" driving cars, but the Atto 3 isnt a car, it's more like a multi-tool or a Swiss Army Knife. It has a lot of rolls to fulfill and least of all is "enjoyment of driving."

              And yeah, as for the Outlander… christ, I asked my boss for a Mustang or a Camaro or maybe even a GTHO Phase 3, because you know, I wanted to impress people on an internet forum that I was really a "driving experience" kinda guy…

              @pegaxs would seem ideally placed to provide an opinion.

              I thought I was ideally placed to provide an opinion based on the fact I am one of about the first 10 owners in NSW, that I am also a mechanic and on the fact that I drive about 10 different cars a day, let alone what I would drive over a week, so I have A LOT of cars I can compare it to.

              *shrugs*

            • pwnd on 20/09/2022 - 11:12
              +1

              @CairnsFella: I was pointing out to take a owner review with a grain of salt, and that was immediately taken as "cHiNa CaR bAd"
              Anyway, all the best with the purchase.

        • syousef on 20/09/2022 - 13:29
          -1

          I wish I had $45k to drop on a whim to see if a particular kind of car deserved a bad reputation.

          • pegaxs on 20/09/2022 - 18:01
            +6

            @syousef: Well, now you don't have to, because I have done that for you…

            And for the record, it wasn't on a whim. I have been putting money away for a new EV for well over 10 years and studying the market and reading all the tech updates and news to keep up with the game.

            I felt that at this time, I had saved enough over the last 10+ years and the price had come down (from around $150k when I started) to around $45k for something that was more like what I realistically wanted to drive. (A Tesla Model X would be nice, but not what I was looking for.)

            I ended up going for the BYD because I have followed BYD battery tech for a lot of years and followed their adventure into making cars. At one stage I was looking to self import a BYD because it just seemed like they would never come to Australia.

            So, I only wanted to spend a max of $50k for a new car, it had to be EV and it had to have equivalent features to a higher end Kia, Hyundai or Toyota for the price. So, it was basically down to the MG and the BYD. I went with BYD because I knew more about them and had been following them for many years and the thing that sealed it was that I wanted to prove that not all cars that come out of China are bad.

            So, yes, I did want to give a brand like BYD a chance, but it wasn't "on a whim". It was an educated decision and I was going to buy an EV for my next vehicle anyway. And I didn't buy it to see if it had a bad reputation but in the hope that I can prove that vehicles made in China are not all rubbish. Only time will tell…

            • syousef on 21/09/2022 - 05:32
              -1

              @pegaxs: So why a 3rd car at all. And why an EV? If you already have access to an Outlander for work and a Fiat for fun, it can't be about your carbon footprint?

              • Hackney on 21/09/2022 - 08:35
                +1

                @syousef: Why not actually read his posts from the beginning? Wouldn’t that be novel?

              • pegaxs on 21/09/2022 - 10:06
                +1

                @syousef: Why, because my Fiat is a weekend, sunny day, time out with the kids, have a laugh and some fun car.

                The Outlander is going back soon to be traded in as it was never a permanent thing and I have to share it (basically a service loan vehicle and I only get it when customers dont need it.)

                I needed my own car that wasn't a 2 seater, 2 door tissue boxed sized go kart. I bought an EV because I hate being at the mercy of fuel companies. Why the hell should I pay them if I have a roof top full of solar and make EV fuel for nothing? I am also talking to my boss about allowing me to get an EV charger installed at work and charging there for free as well…

                And also because I need to be ahead of the curve when it comes to repairing vehicles and understanding vehicle systems and how to diagnose them and at the moment I have 0 experience on EV's and had nothing to play around with. Now I do.

                But you did get one thing right, It was never about my carbon footprint, it was about getting off the petrochemical company teat more than anything.

          • Hackney on 20/09/2022 - 19:00
            -1

            @syousef: Really strange remark.

            Hackney on 20/09/2022 - 19:00 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
            • syousef on 21/09/2022 - 05:28
              -2

              @Hackney: Whatever you say bro.

              • Hackney on 21/09/2022 - 05:58
                -2

                @syousef: You obviously have not read his posts correctly.(not your ‘bro’ either, sonny.)Learn to use your grammar correctly.

                • syousef on 21/09/2022 - 06:53

                  @Hackney: What part of me calling you "bro" came across as genuine? I was showing you exactly the same contempt you showed me. By the way good luck policing grammar on the Internet…especially when you make your own mistakes i.e. learn to put a space after a bracket.

                  Are we having fun yet?

                  • Hackney on 21/09/2022 - 08:34
                    -1

                    @syousef: Sure ‘Bruh’.

                    • syousef on 21/09/2022 - 11:51

                      @Hackney: Do you have anything to actually contribute to the conversation other than to call what I said "strange"?? Do you think that adds any value? And if it did do you think being vague about why you thought it was strange was helpful? What kind of response did you expect exactly when you're being vague and rude? If you think about it, you don't even need me for this conversation.

  • Nugs on 17/09/2022 - 09:48
    +12

    "So You Didn't Have To" no chance of that, newest car I've bought was 6 months old.
    Looking forward to a 3/6 monthly update?
    .

    • MorriJ on 19/09/2022 - 09:42
      +1

      newest car I've bought was 6 months old.

      I was always a huge fan of buying recently depreciated cars and always did the same before buying an EV earlier in the year. 6 month old EVs at the time were sadly more expensive than placing an order and waiting for the extended delivery time :(.

      The resale market for cars has really changed sadly :(. I hope when you next go to buy the market has shifted a bit again back to the way it was.

  • mshanann on 17/09/2022 - 09:51

    The first comment in this video talks about AA and ACP coming in October - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzwDKXHTcNc

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:07
      +3

      The whole operating system in the car is based on AOSP Android, so with a little bit of know how, people have already installed non-GSF apps like Spotify, Waze, ABRP and Plugshare as well as an AA emulator.

      Even if it doesn't come or is a long way off (I'm better it's further away than what EVDirect is estimating), there certianly are work arounds to getting at least some better connectivity.

    • boomramada on 17/09/2022 - 21:29
      +5

      Interior design, ouch 😬

      • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 23:19
        +5

        Yep, I think they let the work experience kids have a crack at this car.

      • churchado on 19/09/2022 - 07:59

        Actually looks a LOT nicer when you're in the car. Youtube doesn't do it justice.

        • pegaxs on 19/09/2022 - 10:45
          +2

          I have to agree. The interior look WAY better once you sit in it and drive around. It just feels like it blends in. At first its a bit WTF!~ish, but only because I think we are used to seeing cars built the same was with interior design for the last 50 years.

  • geek001 on 17/09/2022 - 09:58
    +9

    Well written and very informative. Does anyone know how this compares to the MG EV? I thought about getting a Chinese EV, but seems like MG has a longer track record here compared to BYD, so leaning towards MG at the moment.

    Also looking forward to a 3/6 month update.

    • May4th on 17/09/2022 - 10:03
      +7

      MG might edge ahead on servicing and warranty potentially after the eagers/EVD debacle, but tech wise BYD has MG beaten on almost every measure

      • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:19
        +8

        I agree with this. I think MG have a much more "realistic" approach to servicing, whereas Eager's just wants their dirty little fingers in the buyers wallet a little more often.

        I drove the MG EV before this (the last model, not the newer one) and the BYD is leaps and bounds ahead of the MG, in both refinement, driveability and features.

    • payless69 on 17/09/2022 - 16:48
      +2

      My dealer let me have the MG for a full afternoon midweek. Must say, the pickup was fine. Nothing else of what a new car should have, no climate, crappy screen. crappy regen, over crappy radio, never even heard of a standard volume control!
      Out of 6 take-offs with petal to the metal I had 3 cases of software hang ups.
      Verdict: Trash it!

      • serpserpserp on 18/09/2022 - 08:57
        +1

        Sounds like that MG had been trashed. Out of my week off trashing a hire version I had one hangup and I was flooring it at the lights all the time.

        • payless69 on 18/09/2022 - 18:55
          +3

          1 hangup is one too many!
          Out of my 3 the last I had to get out of the car, lock it and unlock it to start all over again to get on with driving. All that time the vehicle was in the middle of 3 lanes blocking traffic!
          Meanwhile they updated the firmware. Its single cooling loop seems a bad design for hot Australia!

          • serpserpserp on 18/09/2022 - 20:42

            @payless69: Oh I didn't have that. I just had something strange go on with the Regen that after I finished the drive and the next day it resolved itself

  • May4th on 17/09/2022 - 10:03
    +3

    thanks nice to get an impartial hands on review. how's the charging?

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:12
      +13

      Slow. Like everyone else, I am waiting on my electrician to get his digit out and come around an install my home charger. The car only charges at 7kW on AC, so it's not slow, just not as fast as a 11 or 22kW charger.

      At the moment, I just plug it into the 1.6kW granny charger during the day to sponge off the solar system or set it at night to turn on during off peak times (you can set this timer on the in-car system)

      Important part is to not think of it as a ICE car and treat it more like a smart phone with wheels. If you are home and it's doing nothing, just plug it in and top it up.

      • macrocephalic on 18/09/2022 - 08:30
        +1

        When I bought our i30 in 2017 I said I hoped it was the last ICE car I'd buy; your experience is giving me hope that is true. The i30 surely has 5 more years in it, and even now $45k is within my budget for a car once you factor in the savings on fuel.

        • pegaxs on 18/09/2022 - 09:56
          +6

          I think in another 5 or so years, there are going to be a lot more variants from a lot of different manufacturers. There is also going to be a lot of cheaper used vehicle starting to come back into the market from end of lease vehicles.

          I feel that 5 years from now is going to be the beginning of the real uptake on EV's. Better cars, better technology, cheaper technology, greater choice and more range, more infrastructure…

          • serpserpserp on 18/09/2022 - 20:44
            -3

            @pegaxs: I think when we hit Sydney to Melbourne range off one charge everyone will buy them. Hopefully cheaper then too

            • hothed on 20/09/2022 - 13:19
              +3

              @serpserpserp: How often do you drive Sydney to Melbourne?
              Seems like a huge expense to pay an extra ~$10k for a massive battery that you would only use every blue moon??

              Much better off having an approperiately sized battery so; 1) doesnt dramatically increase purchase price, 2) reduce vehicle weight, for improvements to handling and vehicle efficiency.

              • serpserpserp on 21/09/2022 - 14:59
                +2

                @hothed: I think you are forgetting the improvements in battery and efficiency that will happen over the next 5 years. 800-900km range will be available in an EV in 5 years time for sure.
                Then for all those people that want budget EVs, then 400-500km range will be great, and hopefully charging infrastructure will be better by then so you can do 1 charge in the trip.

                • Jackson on 22/09/2022 - 10:01

                  @serpserpserp: 8-900km will be the WLTP range, you still won't get from Sydney to Melbourne on a charge unless you go 70kph the entire way. Do 110kph and you will be lucky to get 500.

                  Having said that I disagree that you need that charge. One of our cars is a Leaf that only does 80kph on a charge and it's the fail driver

          • upended on 22/09/2022 - 06:41
            -2

            @pegaxs: I could be wrong, but in my opinion, the future is not all about EVs. I think hydrogen fuel cars will also play a bigger if not equal role. EVs are currently being bought as they are thought to be a greener alternative to traditional cars. But that is not entirely true. Most countries still generate electricity using fossil fuels, and EVs are still getting charged on the same electricity. So the pollution happens at the time of charging instead of time of driving. Also, the industry hasn't really figured out a sustainable way to recycle/dispose Lithium batteries.

            I appreciate your honesty about buying the new EV to stand up to petrol companies, not so much with the intent of going green. My response is merely a reply to your thinking that EVs will take off in the next 5 years or so. Enjoy your new car.

            • pegaxs on 22/09/2022 - 09:49
              +5

              @upended: ICE will never be replaced, there will always be a place for ICE vehicles, but what EV's will do is replace just about everything else. Your work car, your shopping car, your mum's taxi, your second car and then as battery technology picks up, it will start replacing touring cars, weekend cars, holiday cars, what it wont replace any time soon are the work horses, utes, trucks, vans, off roaders, overlanders, etc. One of the biggest markets I can see for hydrogen anything is in the power generation sphere. Instead of taking a dirty, big noisy, smokey, smelly generator away with you, you take a small, quite fuel cell generator that makes almost no noise and emits nothing but water.

              And hydrogen cars are further behind than electrics. Hydrogen cars are a pipe dream at the moment and are so far behind the 8 ball with regards to where you can fuel them up. There are currently about 4 or 5 hydrogen filling stations on the entire east coast of Australia. Hydrogen doesn't solve the requirement of having to roll out filling stations. Hydrogen will either still need to be trucked in or they will need to make their own hydrogen when is a very electrical heavy exercise and very slow at that. And if you are pumping out electricity to these hydrogen stations, why not just put a bank of EV chargers there instead. EV chargers take up a tiny amount of space compared to the making and storage of hydrogen.

              Hydrogen will work well in large equipment like trucks, but is a shit idea for cars. There are too few charging stations as it is when compared to an EV I can just plug into a wall at home or at work, at a friends house, at a hotel, the list of places with a power plug is almost infinite. The places I can buy hydrogen is basically nil. The infrastructure and capital required to put in hydrogen stations is immense. Billions of dollars, compared to EV's where every place you go to already has power points.

              And even if you wanted to make your own hydrogen at home… you still need a huge amount of electricity and somewhere to store your hydrogen. You are better off cutting out the hydrogen middle man and just plugging you car directly to the power.

              So, no, I have to disagree on this one. Hydrogen powered vehicles are not going to take off. While it seems good in theory, it isnt in a practical sense. The technology is too far behind and the infrastructure needed to support it is non-existent and would take billions of dollars, and the infrastructure adds to what is required for an EV charger. It's far cheaper and easier to put in 4 or 6 EV chargers than it is to put in a new hydrogen refueling station.

              There needs to be more education around EV's and people need to get over the idea that you have to run a car from full to empty every time you drive it and just get used to plugging the car in like they do their smart phone, every day or two just to keep it topped up, that way your EV is always full.

              People need to get over the whole "Yeah well, it only takes my car 10 mins to fill… not 6 hours" mentality because I think of it this way. It takes me 30 seconds to plug my car in when I get home (and that "6 hours" is when the car is stilling still doing nothing anyway.), I always leave the house on a full tank and I don't have to make an out of my way trip to some dirty, smelly fuel station forecourt to fill-up when my fuel just conveniently comes out of a hole in the wall in my house.

              TL;DR: Hydrogen isnt going to be a thing, it's already too far behind and requires 10000x the investment to put in refueling stations than just putting in a bank of EV chargers. Also, people need to get over refuel stations when they can get fuel from a wall socket.

              • serpserpserp on 23/09/2022 - 14:33

                @pegaxs: I think you are right. I think we are more likely to be driving cars in 10 years that will be able to charge (or partially) themselves through PV on the car itself, batteries will become very efficient and small, dynamics of EVs will improve leaps and bounds. EVs will last longer, be self sufficient so needing super high throughput chargers won't be a massive issue. Reading about the new Mercs coming out in 24-25, 1000km range, PV on car charging, ~100k price tag, seems like the future is coming quicker than I originally thought.

              • surg3on on 09/12/2022 - 09:52
                -1

                @pegaxs: I wouldnt count hydrogen out yet. IF (big IF) we get to a high percentage of renewables there is going to be a need for something to do with the surplus energy during the day/high winds. Hydrogen when electricity is free might end up being the most versatile soak/energy sponge/arbitrage opportunity. Im not saying it'll take over low milage transport at all but where a battery doesnt work it might make it.

              • resisting the urge on 13/09/2023 - 11:28

                @pegaxs: While all valid points, the grid is not ready for everyone to use a socket to charge even a 40kwh battery.

                And there are significant backers of Hydrogen. They are the ones who have succeeded in winning concessions and subsidies from government which has kept petroleum-infrastructure a thing through the 70s oil crisis and the climate challenge right up until today, the point at which the environment has already hit tipping point and is wiping out entire regions in storms, floods, fires, famines like we have never seen.

                They want to keep their investments in fuel stations and existing infrastructure. They want to retain distribution rights. They want to make their refineries all blue, or green. Though they have failed up until now, even with very good hyrdrogen cars and successful trials all over the world, they have just been unable to scale because making H2 for all requires economies of scale that only widespread consumer solar (and China) would deliver, whilst that is the very competitor they want to keep out of the market. Whilst this may or may not be why BP first invested in solar cells back in the beginning, it is certainly why Tesla changed everything. If it wasn't for EVs being proven at scale as only Musk was prepared to do- and did, ICE manufacturers would still be thwarting solar vehicle development and the chance to move to H2 would remain delayed. (Sealed, but likely still undelivered, showing the depths of depravity they will plumb for dollars).

                However these corporations, regimes and oil alliances are not gone, indeed they are making more money than ever before. And expanding to extract fossil fuels from under the sea and in the polar ice caps, inflicting nearly as much ecological chaos extracting them than they've done by distributing them.

                They are moving into electricity too, so beware all the new products coming that allow them to continue to seek extravagant hidden rents. One such example is chargers, as the infrastructure to power a city of cars cannot just be rolled out in a year, and cannot be sustained by any existing grids. You can't just use a socket if every car around yours is already. There is not enough copper, not enough grid, not enough generation or storage connected to that. They will solve that problem (unless Tesla can do that widely enough, too), and offer governments everywhere quick-fixes so long as they sign over the financial future of their populations to do it. (Given that those in power have shown time and time again they will sell us 100x over for the first thing that extends their popularity (and time in power).

                They own the fuel stations, and will eventually provide the charging (for a ratcheting fee). Gov will be encouraged to legislate to protect the grid from overloading, and while those with enough roof-mounted PV will be able avoid paying to charge at home, these corps are already succeeding in making retail electricity expensive enough through their retail electricity companies, (Powershop, AGL, EA, and the many others owned by gas generators). All lobby AEMO's settings of energy prices, and once they are investing in charging stations, will want to make it cheap enough to entice everyone to use it using time of day tariffs, and all kinds of other methods to encourage the majority to pay premium prices for supplying energy collected from people's roofs for next to nothing.

                And then we would end up with pay to use chargers everywhere, run by oil companies, feeding their rent-seeking shareholders in perpetuity. While this may represent their 'Plan B', it doesn't mean Plan A won't be delivered in another form, such as H2 as a replacement for Diesel, and even LPG.

                After all, every vehicle in Oz could have been running on (relatively) clean LPG since say, 1990, if we'd only decided to roll out the pipes to filling stations. If we'd done that, only a few would now calmly moving to electricity, with charging infrastructure being added, while the rest of the national fleet remains unchanged for as long as it takes to do it well. We'd have avoided importing decades of fuel from Asia, and would continue to avoid it. And we'd have saved literally billions going to the oil companies. Rates of cancer all over the country would be reduced due to minimal petrochemical pollution. But the status quo was favoured (over the greater good) by our 'proud' mining nation, just like we've always accepted every scheme our jailers, monarchy, rulers, corporations impose, and best lines their pockets

            • Jackson on 22/09/2022 - 10:50
              +2

              @upended:

              I could be wrong

              You are :) BEVs are the future of personal transport period. Hydrogen will have its uses, it will be much more niche and much into the future compared with BEV. BEVs are way, way, way more efficient than making hydrogen and then using it to drive something.

              There's heap more reasons why that I won't go in to here, anyone can find them themselves with a quick search. But the real issue here is that soooo many people have NFI about this and all their minds need to be educated and changed on the true benefits of BEVs, otherwise we are just delaying part of the solution

        • Jackson on 22/09/2022 - 09:59

          My Elantra (basically an i30 lift back) is still going from 2004 and 257k km. I think your i30 has 5 years in it if it was 2017

  • Stopback on 17/09/2022 - 10:03
    +1

    Tyres?

    What range do you think you could get.

    Longest road trip with it?

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:17
      +7

      LOL @ tyres. Atlas "Batman"… They are rubbish. But I'll give them a bit to see what they are like. They are at least quiet, unlike Winrun tyres. As other complaints online, good in the dry, wet grip is between ok and poor

      Range, realistically on an all freeway run, 350~ish km. Around town/city, I think 400 up to 450km is easily acheivable if driven sanely.

      Longest road trip was from pickup where I started with 96% SOC, drove it exactly 200km back to work, 90+% of that was on freeways @ 110km/h and ended on 46%. So about 50?% to go 200km on mostly freeway speeds.

      • Stopback on 17/09/2022 - 14:58

        80km is the most efficient speed for ev.

        Add aero wheels. No air con. Boost range as well.

        • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 16:10
          +1

          Oh yeah, I am sure if I wanted to get into that whole "hyper mileing" thing that some owners do, there are even further gains to be made.

          Just out of interest, on the highway, when the road is flat and it's not windy, it sucks down about 17~20ish kW. Around town in residential on flat roads, its about 6~8kW draw. Foot off and using regen, at 110km/h, it generates up to about 40~44kW and around town 16~20kW of regen.

          And for reference, mine has always been set to "Normal" driving mode, "High" regen and AC always on.

        • based on 18/09/2022 - 08:11
          +3

          Where'd you hear that? Around 80 is most efficient for ICE, for EV I can't see it being more than 20

          • filmer on 18/09/2022 - 09:43
            +5

            @based: I agree. Given the lack of gears and simply how electric engines work I would imagine the most efficient speed would be the slowest speed.

            The engine itself does not have efficiency loss like for ICE, so the only factor at play is air resistance. As the force required to combat air resistance grows exceptionally it means everyone 1km/hr takes more power than the previous.

          • xylarr on 19/09/2022 - 15:49

            @based: All electric cars have a pretty constant draw to run all the non drive train stuff. If you go too slow, that starts to become a significant fraction of your usage.

            • based on 19/09/2022 - 16:05

              @xylarr: Couldn't find a decent source but from a Google people are quoting 20-30 mph, so 30-50kph.
              More than I thought, I guess I was underestimating that idle load

        • Jackson on 22/09/2022 - 12:17

          75 I reckon

      • Hackney on 18/09/2022 - 05:54
        +2

        @pegaxs stick a set of Michelins on the the thing,the car will love you for it!!

  • 17833 on 17/09/2022 - 10:06
    +4

    Thanks for the thread and I appreciate your honest comments. I have ordered one and was very excited but so much complaining on the forums, the warranty issues and a few other things I feel very deflated now. My partner drove both this and the MG EV and prefers the look and drive of the MG but I much prefer the range on the BYD so I'm not sure anymore. Also, it just feels MG has everything organised, e.g. you can't even buy floor mats for the BYD at the moment.

    There has apparently been no deliveries in Victoria due to an issue with the EV Government Subsidy. There are many cars sitting in the car yard at the Dandenong BYD showroom at the moment.

    Anyway, specifically regarding climate control, have you tested the air conditioner and does it work well? Is there a lot of compressor noise?

    Did you install a charging port at home to charge? (answered above, thanks).
    Thanks again.

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:24
      +4

      Pffft.. who buys floor mats from a dealer? AliExpress all they way! But yes, it was a bit shit that they couldn't order at least a few boxes of floor mats at least.

      And I dont know WTF is going on in Vic. I know from all the Vic. customers on the BYD forums that their cars are just sitting there… I think they are waiting on the rebate to be announced before delivering cars, because I dont think the Vic government is going to make it a retrospective rebate.

      Climate control is pretty good. AC is freezing when set to LO and pretty warm when set to 22+. It's spriong now, so let me tell you more when I've had a summer AND a winter to compare it.

      Charging port is here at home, just no-one to install it yet. got a 22kW box, even though the Atto 3 only does 7kW, but I got the bigger one for future cars that may support higher charging.

      • based on 18/09/2022 - 08:17

        How are the Climate control controls to use while driving?
        Can you hit them without looking?

        • pegaxs on 18/09/2022 - 09:59

          They are not to bad. At the bottom of the infotainment screen there are quick access buttons for temp and speed, the main things i tend to use. On the screen saver screen, all of the functions are shown at the bottom, speed, recirc, direction, temp and something else.

          And I guess I can hit them without looking, it's like any other muscle memory thig. The only thing, unlike a conventional HVAC system, there is no feedback you hit the right button or moved it up or down like a clicky dial would do.

      • CL123 on 18/09/2022 - 09:36

        Hi pegaxs. Thanks for the review. Just started looking into EV's so i appreciate the details and feedback you are giving. I was wondering about the chargers. Do they come with the vehicle or do you have to buy it separately and if so, do you buy from the dealer or somewhere else? I see you bought a 22kW box which is smart buying the higher capacity but didn't mention where? I have been reading articles and some commenting that a charger isn't included which made me think some companies do include. I am looking in the cheaper range cars like BYD and MG but still just researching and reading all i can so any info you could provide would be most helpful. Many thanks.

        • pegaxs on 18/09/2022 - 10:12
          +5

          I was wondering about the chargers. Do they come with the vehicle

          The vehicle comes with a 1.6kW~ish granny trickle charger. It will do about 2.5% per hour, so overnight (10 hours), it will give you about 25% or about 150~ish freeway km. Overnight, the granny charger will totally cover me for the next days worth of driving and then some. It's only if I take it on a long road trip that it will require longer to charge.

          I see you bought a 22kW box… but didn't mention where?

          I ended up going with a ANZU tetherless charger because I can take the cable and use it elsewhere and because it has WiFi for info wirelessly and RFID so people cant just come up and use it.

          I am looking in the cheaper range cars like BYD and MG

          I would wait for a bit on this and see what MG offers later. The MG4 looks like a very good car, and the MGEV is possibly getting a Long Range version to compete with the Atto 3 LR. I would also keep an eye on things like the Ora Cat and the BYD Dolphin when more info is released.

          • amsaini15 on 18/09/2022 - 19:44

            @pegaxs: @pegaxs just on the charger part, what do you recommend to someone who is building a house? Should I just have normal PowerPoint in garage at this stage and buy ANZU tether less charger when I buy EV?

            • pegaxs on 18/09/2022 - 20:59
              +1

              @amsaini15: If you are building a new house, see what power you have available first and what amperage it supports. Some estates will only have single phase and some might have 3 phase, but only 16amps, so you will need to know that.

              Once you know that information, I would get them to install an appropriate power outlet where ever you want to charge your EV, that way you can install your EV charger at a later time and the power outlet will already be installed.

              As for brand, I don’t know, that will be up to you to make your own decision. I will add my feedback once I have mine installed and let you know how it goes.

              • htc on 19/09/2022 - 14:51

                @pegaxs: How much is the installation cost (is the fast charger $1000 mentioned above?), if you move houses, can the fast charger be taken down and install in a new resident?

                • pegaxs on 19/09/2022 - 16:12
                  +1

                  @htc: I'm banking on the cost to be between $1000 and $1500 from what most other poeple that I have talked too have quoted me on.

                  And yes, I am going to have mine mounted and 3 Phase 32A plug/socket installed so if/when I move, I can just unplug it and take it with me.

                  • randysal on 21/09/2022 - 06:38

                    @pegaxs: $1,500 was my installation cost, possibly could have been cheaper, but I have had quotes of $2,000 and $3,000. So, the usual advice is to shop around. I got more than 3 quotes just to be sure.

                    $1,500 seems about right in my instance - half parts half labour for 3 phase. Had two blokes being busy for just over 3 hours with the install.

                    I bought a tesla gen 3 charger, but it is not going to be used for tesla, it is just a charger at the end of the day.

                    • pegaxs on 21/09/2022 - 09:53

                      @randysal: Yeah, started getting quotes in yesterday, $1,800 to run 3phase across the house to the outside garage wall. I am lucky, because in my area I can have a 32A outlet for the full 7kW charging or up to 22kW if I buy my next car and it supports that, some of the other suburbs wherre I live dont have 3 phase and if they do, its limited to 20A/16A.

                      • randysal on 21/09/2022 - 12:10

                        @pegaxs: In some instances 3 phase now is overkill, however the price difference is only for bigger cables and switches, so not that much. If your infrastructure supports 3 phase, go for that, for sure.

                        For instance, the car I currently have will only support 7kW AC, Tesla I think only supports 11kW AC (not checked only plugged in to test for a short while). Not sure about BYD.

                        However, doing a 3phase install will plan for the future, and if the price difference is, say only $100 for parts, it is well worth it.

                        • pegaxs on 21/09/2022 - 13:58
                          +1

                          @randysal: Oh yeah, 3 phase 32A is way overkill for a home install, but it was almost exactly the same cost to install a 15A single phase outlet as it was a 3 phase 32A, so in the interests of future-proofing, I just paid the tiny bit extra and went big. The only difference the leccy said was the RCD/breaker and the cabling.

                          And the Atto 3 only does single phase 7kW charging (32A single.) but the Seal and possibly Dolphin will be 11kW and I have arsehole friends that want to come over and steal my solar in their Tesla dirt boxes, so 11kW would be good for them.

                          • randysal on 21/09/2022 - 16:08
                            +1

                            @pegaxs: Yep, Tesla owners suck. My partner charges hers for free at work (says he with a hint of jealousy).

                            Love your post BTW, very informative and entertaining. I was curios about BYD and think they are very good at that price point.

      • cheach on 21/12/2022 - 00:57

        @pegaxs How has the AC performed in the warmers days?

        Picked mine up midday yesterday and AC wasn’t working while at the dealership. They took it into their workshop and reset the system. It was working OKish but I wouldn’t say it was freezing. it was mid 20s degree day. The weird thing is that when I set the temp to LO and the fan to highest it was blowing coolish air with my hand on the vent, but it was a lot cooler if I have the fan on mid to low.

        Took it home. Parked it in the sun. When I took it for a spin, again the AC didn’t feel cold. Had all the windows down and it was cooler outside. With fan on full blast it wasn’t cooling down the car. The air out of the vent didn’t feel cold until I put the fan speed to 3 or 4. I’ve noticed that the passenger side vent was cold, not freezing, and the driver side vent was warmish (a lot warmer than the front passenger and rear vent.

        • pegaxs on 22/12/2022 - 14:33

          I find mine doesn't like working while sitting idle in a car park or traffic jam (still gets cold, but takes longer). Out on the road and moving around, it's freezing (so much so I often have to turn it off).

          I have a feeling that the condenser is not big enough for our climate and heat hence the reason it works ok while lots of air is passing over it, but poor performance for some people while the vehicle is stationary.

          It might work ok in China or Europe where a "hot" day is 24 and not 42, but I think with just being parked on a dealers lot in the sun over summer, they are going to struggle.

          • cheach on 26/12/2022 - 00:45

            @pegaxs: That’s a good point about the condenser. I found that it does cool down better when it is moving but mine still struggles due to one solenoid not opening fully (reported by dealership’s mechanic). This is causing the driver side outlets to be warmer. It can be up to 10oC difference when I put a thermometer in each of the centre console front vents.
            I was told that they have arrange for an engineer from the factory to investigate. Got an appointment 1st week of Jan.

            I got to say though. So far my dealings with the dealership has been very positive.

            • pegaxs on 26/12/2022 - 19:01

              @cheach: Yeah, i'll keep an eye on mine. It seems to be working fine at the moment.

              I wonder if the issue is with a software update? There was supposed to be another one come down the pipeline on Christmas eve, but I've not seen anything new… also not holding my breath.

    • MkVIGTI on 18/09/2022 - 08:51
      +1

      I also recently test drove the BYD and went to look at the new MG ZS EV, didn't drive the MG tho. But the difference in build quality/materials is so obvious. The BYD is so much better and feels properly premium, while the MG felt a bit 'cheap'. Also the BYD blade battery, heat pump, longer range and proper EV platform are massive advantages over the MG.

      • pegaxs on 18/09/2022 - 10:16
        +1

        100% agree. I test drove the MG (2020MY) and only got to sit in the Atto 3 (LHD) and they were worlds apart in quality of fit and finish. The MG3 was ok, it wasnt bad, it just wasnt great. The BYD looked and felt good. Also not "great" but very good.

        The Atto 3 just felt like and EV… where as the MG3 just felt like what it was, an electric conversion of the MG ZS.

    • jinny7 on 22/09/2022 - 12:21

      Tons if you look.

      AU $41.05 30%OFF | Car Floor Mats For BYD Yuan Plus Atto 3 2021 2022 2023 Carpets Footpads Anti-slip Cape Rugs Cover Foot Pads Interior Accessories
      https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrECvmU

  • slknv on 17/09/2022 - 10:07
    +2

    Nice review - unbiased and straight to the point. Hopefully the infotainment will get frequent OTA updates to improve it? Was hoping to change my wife's car to either the atto 3 or zs ev, I think neither of them are available in melbourne for a test drive.

    • 17833 on 17/09/2022 - 10:10

      My partner has test driven both at their respective Dandenong showrooms in Melbourne, note to drive the atto 3 you may need to have placed an order for it and it was very busy when I went on a weekday morning.

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:29
      +1

      I'm not a fanboi and BYD/EVDirect or anyone else are paying me, so I will always call a spade a spade, because I don't have to worry about them pulling my long-term loan car or withdrawing advertising revenue. And if I just give me honest opinion, they cant go me for defamation either. :D

      I am hoping that we at least get AA in the not too distant future, and even if we dont, like I said above, you can always sideload most the apps you use anyway. (Waze ok, Google maps, nope.)

      And yeah, Victoria… What a shit show that is, but I have a feeling that this is more a government waiting game then it is them just holding up vehicles for no reason.

  • Ivegottadog on 17/09/2022 - 10:14

    Thanks for review

    What was the all up cost?

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:31
      +1

      In NSW, it was $48,405.91. This includes registration but no stamp-duty. These cars are stamp-duty rebateable, but that was done at the dealer for me. There is also a $3,000 EV rebate as well, that one you have to apply for online, and I have applied, but have not received it. After rebate, if/when I get it, it will be $45,406 drive away.

  • ECE on 17/09/2022 - 10:15
    +5

    How can i upvote? 😷🤣

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:36
      +14

      So long as you enjoy my posts and get a chuckle, that's upvote enough for me :)

      • lovetodiscuss on 01/12/2022 - 12:51
        +1

        Very good review so far!!!! @pegaxs. Enjoyed reading it and really started me thinking about an EV and a Chinese one. Before this review of yours, both were NO, NO…

  • El cheepo on 17/09/2022 - 10:16
    +1

    What was the drive away price for it?

    And

    How do they get away with selling silver as white? 😂

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:35
      +3

      drive away price…

      Covered it here for you. Might add it to the main post, I'm guessing lots of people are going to end up asking.

      silver as white?

      To be fair… It is white(ish) when it is in full, direct sunlight on a cloudless day, out of the shade, standing back from it, out the corner of your eye, if you squint a little… But as soon as you get cloud cover or park it in the shade, its silver.

      • El cheepo on 17/09/2022 - 14:19

        Good call.

        Does it bother you about the colour discrepancy?
        Personally I wouldn’t be fussed on a family car and like you would be taking the free colour option over paid optional colours haha.

        • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 14:48
          +1

          Not really. I didn't want flat white, but when I ordered it it was White, Grey or Blue and eventually Red.

          It's actually a really nice colour and how it changes in different lighting.

          And yeah, I have never paid for a colour on a car. (fropanity) that.

  • Ryanek on 17/09/2022 - 10:29
    +6

    I can't get over the interior. Seems like they just tried too hard.

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:38
      +1

      Meh… The rest of the car interior looks good… but WTF were they thinking with that dash? Like come on! At least they took the blue from that gawd awful bright blue with red stitching down to a deep blue with same coloured stitching.

      And they could have done better with those guitar string door pocket holders. Not a fan of them either.

  • Drakesy on 17/09/2022 - 10:48
    +3

    Cheers for the review
    Tossing up on getting one of these or waiting to see what comes next year.

    A pity the real ranges are in the vicinty of 350-400
    Id like to see it get up into the high 400's before i can confidently go out without range anxiety.

    Admittedly for daily town trips it would do the job

    • pegaxs on 17/09/2022 - 10:55

      Yeah, I just wanted a car I could reliably get from work (Hunter Valley) to Sydney (200~250km one way) and it does that with ease.

      The range doesn't bother me as much, because, unlike an ICE, I can plug this in at any time it is just sitting around doing nothing. If I know it is going to be idle for more than say 2 hours, I plug it in.

      And yes, as a daily driver, it is more than adequate. Even for the odd trip to family from Newcatle up the valley, no problem. And the other way I look at it is, I have had a gut full of driving after about 3 or so hours, so I dont mind pulling up on longer trips at a destination charger and topping off while I walk around and get a bite and take a piss.

      The other thing to also realise is that you dont have to 100% charge it on a road trip. You just put in what you need to get to the next charging station and go.

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