Browsing around for flights when I encountered this. Various dates available in August 2023 for around $2,000 - $2,500. Other airlines seem to be double the price. Hopefully someone can take advantage of this!
To be exact its a 737 Max 8 narrow body jet, so I guess the experience will be similar to domestic business class, and the seat is unlikely able to recline for a good sleep…
Here's the prototype business class cabin. This is what they have been running on 2 737-800's as a trial for the new 737-8's and -10's (although the 10's might get a different config according to VA pre-Bian releases). I think people are going to be shocked if they think its standard international business.
Yes you are right, more in depth review here https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/review-virgin-austra…
@fry888chip: Cheers. That's more current than half the crap on their website.
Article from a few weeks back stating VA has canned the 737-8 max and has brought the date of the 737-10 max forward 1 years. I'd say there a good possibility this ticket will end up being on a 737-800.
I wonder how much the 737-8 pushback has to do with delayed government approval as neither VA or Qantas want Bonza to get approval (they are all 737-8's and cannot operate still due to the aircraft not being approved). This will be interesting to watch
@Froot Loops: Can't be on the 737-800, it doesn't have the range to do CNS-HND. (Just short, at least on paper)
Bonza's issue is they haven't been approved for an AOC. Pretty sure the 737-8 is approved to fly in Australia, the ban (at least for international carriers to fly in and out) was lifted back in 2021.
@Trance N Dance: Oh, my mistake. Well, that would leave the 737-10 Max to fly the route, if Virgin can get them in-time without delays and other issues (given that they just put the order a year forward) or another fuel stop. Poor Bonza
@Froot Loops: Its impossible for the max10 in the timeline. Boeing had a huge headache in getting FAA certification for the max 10 and only very recently got congressional exemption for the max 10 and max 7 to be certified under the old law and not the new one that starts in jan 1 2023. (For note, its expected that max 10 will get certification around when this flight launches). Basically if they didnt get the exemption, they most likely would completely cancel the max 7 and 10. As such it'd be impossible for them to deliver a plane in time for this route launch.
It will almost certainly be the max 8 virgin is scheduled to get delivery of and then fly this route as it's just within the specs for the Max8. Highly likely the article you linked got the max 8 and 10 flipped.
@Froot Loops: The 737-8 MAX is approved in Australia, has been for a long while now. Delivery of the first lot is imminent for VA.
The delay with Bonza has nothing to do with the aircraft type.
oooh thanks for looking into this!
not the old B777's / A330's*
Bedtime for me
Really? Want to risk your life on a 737Max for a few dollars? It has forced passed safety in US but rest of the world???
Go do some reading on the A320, A330 and all its shortcomings then come back. All makes and models have flaws (and always will in our lifetime), but corrections are made and like the A320, the 737 programs it will continue to go on and be one of the safest and successful aircraft ever produced. I would happily fly on a 737-8 and that's because I know what went wrong, why it went wrong and the corrections put in place (you can read about MCAS corrections online).
The 737 programs has now delivered close to 12,000 aircraft with this MCAS issue and the rudder hard over issues in the OG series. That 4 planes lost to a major design flaw out of nearly 12,000. Currently on the Max series aircraft there are 2400 uneventful flights daily. It has also been cleared by CASA, the European air agency and the FAA. This is now the most the most scrutinised aircraft in human history.
The full corrections to the Max still haven't been implemented and with the waiver US Congress just gave Boeing, they won't be implemented on existing Max 8s until upto 3 years after the Max 10 is certified.
Good luck with flying in a plane that wants to pitch up all the time
Pretty ignorant comment.
Millions of passengers flown since, myself included, with no issues.
Get a grip.
Don't bother they are sheep. We have a bunch of anti-vaxx, government conspiracy flat earthers on this site. As I stated 2400 flights daily and now 2 years since it started flying and clearly to these people that's not safe, likely because the Daily Mail told them otherwise.
Flown it on transatlantic, throughout North America, here in Oceanic and in Asia.
It is only an 8 hour flight so I would say it is a reasonable price. Considering that 737 business on virgin or qantas is fine for a 4 hour flight, it is fine for 8.
Even emirates don't do lie flat on their 777 European legs.
Jetstar does Narita in a Dreamliner and the airport has bum blaster toilets!
Yeah not that long a flight, I'd rather go on a Dreamliner and save money on normal seats. Business in an old plane isn't anything special, would be similar to domestic as mentioned.
If you are getting blotto then could be ok value depending on the price of normal flights at the time but used to be quite cheap (and quite far in advance bookings, but nothing that cheap now).
Got my ride as part of a trip to Europe. On way over Narita stuffed up so got to ride the Singapore 737Max. (The Singapore girls are back, so no complaints)
I prefer the B787 anytime over an old "duck" designed in the 60's with legs so short the oversized engines are now mounted too much forward.
Not an issue with good pilots but why take an extra risk?
Minor issues at Narita T3 are no airbridge and limited food.
It's domestic B737 business class, similar to (if not slightly worse than) international premium economy IMHO.
I had this in mind, but I was struggling to remember what the Virgin 777 Premium economy looks like. Just looked at a photo and its much the same
Probably still a lot cheaper than Qantas PE. Singapore fly a 737-8 max from cairns to Singapore but the business is lie flat even on the narrow plane
Singapore fly a 737-8 max from cairns to Singapore
I thought Singapore Airlines fly the A350 for AUS-SG route?
or they only use the 737 for Cairns alone.
It's a route that was operated by SilkAir before they were folded into Singapore Airlines. Essentially a regional route out of SIN operated by smaller airplanes.
@Trance N Dance: Except they upgraded all the old crappy Silk Air planes to Max on the cairns route so in business you get a lie flat product and in the second row you get the isle and window throne seat all to yourself
@Trance N Dance: Done them both:Silk and SinAir Just the livery outside changed.
Still a patched MAX!
Singapore Airlines only do the 787-10's for the Perth to SG route now. They occasionally have the A350, I'm guessing when they need to do maintenance for the 787's.
Probably not a bad way to earn some status credits though.
thats why I clicked in the thread, potential for mileage run and maybe a llittle sightseeing
Also note that since it is flying with a 737 Max 8, the max range is 6574km (on paper)
The distance from Cairns to Tokyo is 5912km
So VA is maximising out the range (with no fuel for a return) and they are unable to fly the similar route from Melbourne, Sydney or even Brisbane
Brisbane－＞Tokyo ＝ 7156km
Melbourne －＞Tokyo ＝ 8185km
Sydney －＞Tokyo ＝ 7826km
They're desperate to keep the extremely valuable Tokyo landing slots (fought Qantas at the ACCC to get them), which they would lose otherwise. I wonder if this means these flight will get good deals, since profit wasn't the biggest motivator
Slot squatting!
Brings back to the times where Qantas were operating Avros at LHR to keep its slots, EK were trying so dam hard to get them
I imagine they will try to compete with Jetstar on this route (direct competitor) and thus we should see some pretty competitive prices. Otherwise it'd be pretty easy choice to fly jetstar on a 788.
Although we all know what airport Jetstar fly to in Japan. Hard pass for me.
Rather VA on this aspect alone.
@belongsinforums: Haneda, is the downtown airport to Toyko. Narita used by Jetstar is not.
All about travel time from the airport to Tokyo.
Google map it if you want to see the difference.
@SimAus007: If that's the logic, fly direct from an eastern city or layover in Singapore, Kuala Lumla, Hong Kong / Taipei and you'll be flying to Haneda with a better flight and transition.
The NEX / Skyliner also aren't that bad to take.
What should I be noting?
that since it is flying with a 737 Max 8, the max range is 6574km (on paper)
Hey if QF can do BNE-LAX with an A330 anything is possible.
is it cheaper paying in Turkish
Its cheaper not to pay at all
true, i miss the $1 fares
I did MCY-SYD-MCY for $1 each way on Ansett - those were the days!
Anyone know how many Status Credits this would earn? Might be worth wiating for a double status credits offer (they're usually in Feb/Mar).
I am not sure on status credit but based on mileage chart for international, it showed one way 2500+ miles would get 140 status credit. I am also waiting for double status promo to do SYD - BNE - CNS - HND and HND - CNS - BNE - SYD. That would net 270 + 280 without double credits promo for around $2,300
Prior to Covid, you could get a deal price on Sing Business every now and then where it was about $2500 return to HK, which was 400 status return and gold renew paid for in one trip (needing the 4 VA flights as well) . Obviously that’s a past reality on todays prices
Wow 450 SC on that one flight? So DSC would ultimately get you close to Platinum.
Double SC would generally only be on VA marketed and VA metal. So SQ flight (even with VA code) wouldn't be eligible.
@jeppetto367: To maintain gold didn’t need double SC, 120 each way syd to sing and 80 each way to HK or Japan and the 4 virgin flights as well
Actually, that would be 550. If it is DSC, it would be 1100. You would basically be qualify for platinum.
Does anyone want virgin status anymore? You can only redeem points for crappy biz like this anyway…
I’m flying Syd-Sing-Munich in May all business on Singapore for 280k plus $300. good luck getting that on Qantas
Really? I don't think you guys know how points work either
320k Oneworld around the world J
Thanks for the negs
You obviously don't know how Velocity works if you think you can only use them on Virgin Bus Class.
I use Velocity points on Qatar, Etihad and Singapore Airlines. Definitely worth it and much better value than using Qantas points for international.
I find VA points better than QF points these days. Good redemption fees (and availablility) on SQ and EY.
I redeemed some QF points earlier this year and availibility to Europe sucked and most of the ones that were available had extremely high taxes. The only airline that I could redeem with QF points that rivaled SQ/EY with VA points was AY. They had decent avilability and taxes in and out of HEL in Business.
Points calculator for earning points can be found here: https://experience.velocityfrequentflyer.com/partners-offers…
August is the worst month to visit Japan….. Would not recommend
Why is that? Winter isn't till dec?
Winter is awesome! Probably the most underrated time to visit.
Out of interest, what's your reasoning for this?
School Holiday in Japan and extremely hot. Good luck with the crowds or even getting into Disney Land (if that's one of the attractions you plan on)
very hot and humid in Aug, the air con in japan is very shitty, you will be sweating all day
I was just there this August. (Business visa). It was stinking hot in Tokyo.
30-35 most of the day with 100% humidity and MASKS EVERYWHERE (yes outside with that weather). Didn't get better at night either. Came out of a movie at midnight and was still 28 with the same humidity.
You only really want to go in August if there's events to attend or urgent business.
100% but hey some claim to like heat and humidity.
@jakeau: Heat and humidity in Bali or Thailand, where you are spending your time at the beach or in a water park is perfectly fine for most, even those that don't like humidity. Heat and humidity in a concrete jungle where you will spend most of your time outside visiting shrines, parks, walking between shops, in museums, etc and on public transport that is sometimes packed to the brim, is not most people's idea of fun.
@jakeau: Sounds like perfect weather to me. Rather that than freezing my arse off for 10 months per year and walking around in Summer with a jumper on.
I preferred Aug over Dec-Jan - each to their own!
Is it not monsoon season as well?
This is 100% correct. I lived in Japan and all the expats would bail mid June to mid September if they could. August being the worst month. It is hot and humid, anywhere there is respite is packed (ie, parks with water, well airconditioned inside spaces, etc). A lot of Tokyo has poor aircon as the locals are just used to it. If you are not used to it though, it is horrible.
Best times to visit Japan are Jan/Feb to go skiing and travel around when they are at school. Visiting onsens in winter is excellent. Or April for cherry blossom season (it is stupidly busy, but it is a bucket list item for many people due to the beauty). If you are not interesting in skiing and cherry blossoms, then Sept to Nov has the best weather. Avoid end of April to early May, when there are a stack of public holidays and everyone is travelling domestically, a 2 hour drive can turn into a 10 hour drive in an instant.
Thanks mate. Very useful information. I’ve only been to japan once and it was during Christmas and New Year period. Loved every minute of it although I find it a little too cold to my liking. Will aim October next time. Cheers.
8 hours on a 737 should frankly be illegal, especially one with no IFE . Not a deal
A deal is a deal. Whether the value proposition makes sense for you or not, is a subjective.
That said I do agree with you that I don't believe in the value of this, but hey someone else might. And for status runs as someone else has mentioned, this might be attractive.
BYOD, dude.
It's OK for 'Business' (Premium Economy) , but the new slim line toilets are crap (https://www.collinsaerospace.com/what-we-do/Industries/comme…) and the economy passengers will not have a pleasant flight in the 737-8, as firstly the seats in a 737 are very narrow, no food provided and the the issue if they don't allow economy passengers to use business lavatory of 84 pax per loo, compared to 62.8 for Jetstar. The ultra small lavatory also makes it harder to use it too.
Qantas on its a330-300 which it uses for Sydney to Haneda has 44.8 pax per loo in economy.
They do allow economy to use the lavatory at the front, the rope no longer exists on the newly designed business class recliner seats.
This can already be seen in 2 of the 737-800's that have been upgraded with the new business class seats, the max will have the same seats.
I've heard differently, and that virgin regularly police the front toilet for Business only and the rope is only gone on new fit outs as they are currently getting a new solution certified from CASA.
@Pcoder: I'm only talking about the new fitout, which is what will be flying to Japan.
They do stop passengers using the front toilet with the old configuration which has the rope and purple wall still.
I've been in economy in the new fitout and everyone was using the front lavatory without any issues.
Time will tell, I guess
@SimAus007: No the new fit out does have the new divider as it hasn't been CASA approved. You can't add this stuff before it has been approved.
Your still going to have the problem of almost 60 pax per toilet and with the new slim line toilets, you can't even wash both hands in the basin due to its way to compromised design.
@SimAus007: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/review-virgin-austra…
Firstly it's says that the two 'new' aircraft are concepts and it says the dividers will be added at a later date. I expect a rejig as one of the new aircraft was just an old silkair jet.
Strictly speaking econ pax shouldn't be allowed to use the front lav reserved for business, it's just most FAs don't want to be confrontational or they realise the meal trolley is in the way and it's logical to let the pax through.
As for why there's no divider on the trial refit aircraft? They simply just don't have the parts yet. It's CASA approved, they just haven't been able to source/fit the part. Most airline fittings manufacturers are running significantly behind schedule at the moment.
@Trance N Dance: I was in business on a flight to Adelaide with no rope or dividers and the FA said they had a few planes they brought in that haven’t been fit out properly yet
Imagine the state of the 2 loos at the rear after 8 hours and 150 shits lol it’s a horrifying thought
Do you wish to feel like your sitting on a public transport bus seat for 8 hours? Then come on board!
not bad price
i bought tickets on SIA for 3700 return from MEL-NRT business
Apples and oranges, SIA is real business, this is just what other international airlines call premium economy.
The only real advantage for Virgin is its only $200-300 more expensive to connect via other Australian cities in their Domestic business class, which is reasonable.
Haneda is only an advantage for domestic airline connections, as even though it is closer to the city, some of its rail links are not as good as Narita.
Just to note this is there 737 business class and not the old 777 / A340 business class.
I'm not sure if it will differ from their domestic business class as they are using 737's for everything. It is the same as the domestic business class (given the layouts on the new max's will be in line with the domestic offerings)Edit: I also don't think this is a deal as SYD-HND is around the same price at full price. I have checked multiple days and its always ~$1100. Again this product isn't long-haul business class, but domestic business class (no pods / lay flat beds etc).
Sorry but no deal as its full price