Can The 'Quiet Achiever' Ever Make It to The Managerial Level?

dimes on 10/04/2023 - 10:32
Last edited 10/04/2023 - 10:44

Hi all, recently at work I got knocked back for a managerial position for the second time in four years. The feedback I got was that I was the quiet achiever type who needed to be more vocal.

I am the introverted type who prefers to quietly get things done without a fuss and without troubling other people. But this doesn't mean I'm a mute who doesn't talk to anyone in the office. When I see people in the kitchen or at the photocopier, I still make general chit chat and have a laugh. But it seems like something more is needed.

Another example of me being "quiet" is when this role came up four years ago and I didn't get it, I didn't complain and just accepted it. When I complained this time and brought it up, they said "I didn't know you wanted it". So it seems like merely applying for the role isn't enough to show my interest, I have to complain that I didn't get it?

The successful applicant is more extroverted than me, they will spend an hour or so a day talking to people about non-work related things, such as how their kids are, how their weekend was etc. I feel like this is too much wasted time talking and not getting work done.

I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts, especially any experiences they have seen first hand in the office, whether that be going through the process themselves or seeing others go through it.

Education & Work

Comments

  • zeoko on 11/04/2023 - 11:05

    Being an introvert myself I have learnt that to be social to achieve a specific outcome is not being extrovert. It's a part of work. Office or workplace is made of humans, and by nature we are social beings. So to have that personal exchanges is a part of work, especially if you are aiming to be in a leadership position. This is not required if your colleagues are AI robots.

    Edit: I would also like to add that being an introvert and genuinely caring for you colleagues can play wonders for you. In comparison to an extrovert who is just speaking out of habit, may not be seen as serious as someone who is an introvert and still spending time to know someone. Your introvert status and genuine interest in others will make you even more successful, albeit slowly as it takes some for this to rub on others heart. But will definitely help you in long run.

  • Thaal Sinestro on 11/04/2023 - 11:20
    +3

    We live in a country that rewards narcissists and sociopaths. Humble people get trodden on, repeatedly. That said, I'm not sure you can become a narcissist/sociopath. It seems to be either genetically encoded or imprinted through early life experience.

  • lonewolf on 11/04/2023 - 11:35
    +2

    A lot of people who are involved in the hiring process are really not good at hiring as they are easily conned by sales pitches rather than looking at whether that person will be good at the job. The better the liar you are and the more confident you are in the lie, the more chance you basically have. Some places are changing this by having hiring staff know how to spot liars and to put more worth into the truth even if that truth is the guy admits he may not know everything but can learn it as opposed to a guy who rocks up saying he is the best at everything. But time and time again i have seen even the hiring staff months later regretting their choice of who they picked as they realised they got conned. So really the more out going and confident and loud you are, the better the odds you have especially in management positions.

    Sadly what a lot of people dont look for are people who actually have people skills and hence would make good managers.

  • Jules_d1 on 11/04/2023 - 11:44
    +1

    By being introverted and not being vocal, you give yourself no chance at displaying key skills a manager needs- Leadership skills and the ability to influence others (The latter basically is an extension of the former).

    Essentially, you've given them no reason to think you'd be a good leader. Quite the opposite really.

    Showing them you are good at your job will basically just cement you in the position you already have.

  • MrKnowItAll on 11/04/2023 - 12:52

    Answer is a definite yes. I'm 'worse' than you in that I won't make much chit chat, rarely stop for lunch and show up to the office <10 times in a year (despite being on alternating 2 and 3 day attendance) and when my boss left during covid I moved up into his position without any issue.
    Been managing a team (albeit quite small @ 3 people) involved in reporting and analytics since Sep 2020 now. All I did was say to my current boss "I hear that ____ is leaving, any chance I can give the role a shot? I know what's involved and you know my abilities. I'd be happy to start out on a temp contract for a bit so you can see that I'm the right fit management-wise and we can talk after that" Throwing in the offer of learning management went a long way as well I believe.. but I'm a hands on learner so picked it up myself over time.

    In terms of my management style, I'm pretty relaxed on a lot of things like working hours, working location, etc. and am happy for the team to work autonomously. I see us more as equals than me their manager but have no issues pointing out any wrongdoings or careless errors when needed. Its a dynamic that I believe works quite successfully as our team-memebers are constantly appearing on the "Town Halls" that we have every month ( I know that's not a great indicator )

  • Jugganautx on 11/04/2023 - 13:45

    The fact you have to be a senior manager in this country to get a decent salary is a joke.

    • El-Rhi on 14/04/2023 - 06:58

      What is a decent salary?

  • Kayrhcp on 11/04/2023 - 13:48
    +2

    Firstly, sorry you didn't get the promotion you wanted. I've been there and it sucks.

    Looks like you're getting plenty of feedback specifically on whether technically skilled quiet people can be managers etc.. I'll avoid that and offer my two-bob on a red flag I've noticed from what you've said that's worth considering.

    Another example of me being "quiet" is when this role came up four years ago and I didn't get it, I didn't complain and just accepted it. When I complained this time and brought it up, they said "I didn't know you wanted it". So it seems like merely applying for the role isn't enough to show my interest, I have to complain that I didn't get it?

    Just gotta point out here that your boss should have known well ahead of time that you wanted a promotion. Not from a promotion attempt two years, ago, but from regular discussions leading up to this latest promotion attempt.
    Do you have regular catch-ups with your superior? Do you discuss careers stuff? Because if not, you should be. You should be taking the time to discuss your opinions and thoughts on strategic parts of the business but also where you want to be in the mid-long term. That includes promotion.
    If you have a good relationship with a good boss, they should be able to have told you the things they would need you to do to fight for your promotion on your behalf, well before you submitted that promotion application.
    Similarly, they should be able to tell when you're unhappy and if you're indispensable and unhappy, that puts them in a position where they may need to take your needs more seriously. Things like this are one of the MANY facets that make up a promotion viability, and without any alignment with your boss, it can be hard for a manager to know this stuff.

    Obviously we don't know much about your situation other than what you've said, but I daresay you may have a few blindspots about other parts of your work/'introvertedness' that may be making it hard to be promoted. As someone who deals with recruitment and promotion, I consider the above pretty important. It's the difference between someone just putting their application for a job in, and the person who actually calls up and asks about what the job entails and talks through what would be needed to see if it's right for them, and if they're the right fit.

    I don't believe only talkative non-technical "airheads" get managerial positions like a lot of these ozbargainers seem to believe, but I do think that alignment and communication on strategic parts of the business/team is really important, and step 1 of that is basically being able to talk to your boss about your own role and career, and whether you're happy, unfulfilled, etc.

    source - manager for large financial firm, recruit and manage talent including introverted people.

  • ColtNoir on 11/04/2023 - 13:50
    +1

    I’ve made it to management as the introvert and it’s all about the discussions you have with your manager BEFORE the job comes up again. Once it’s out and you haven’t told anyone you want it, it’s likely too late.

    I told my manager 1 year before that I wanted X role and how should I fill the gaps in my skill set to ensure I’m successful when it comes up again.

    Being more vocal isn’t just about chit chats, it’s about the impact you have in work meetings. You can lead a team without being the leader, this can be for a task, a problem. You don’t need to lead everything, just some problem from start to finish.

  • echelon6 on 11/04/2023 - 14:21

    No

    Think about it. Imagine you own a company. It's your main asset, your livelihood. Do you want some quiet dude that doesn't have good control over people to be in charge of important projects when you have better alternatives?

  • Excelsior on 11/04/2023 - 14:55

    Like many others have pointed out - most senior leaders are not placed there for their technical prowess or simply because they "worked hard". More often than not they themselves will point out that they aren't the smartest in the room (there's always someone smarter).

    They need to be one to take charge, utilise resources to produce results, and be able to think on their feet to make bold decisions quickly in the face of urgencies.

  • nedski on 11/04/2023 - 15:16
    +1

    I am now of the firm belief that instead of being seen as a hard worker and going the extra mile to get promoted internally, its way more achievable to get promotions by applying outside of your organisation. It just seems no matter how good you are, organisations always want to try something shiny and new.

  • MessyG on 11/04/2023 - 15:31
    +1

    OP I think that has been worded poorly for you. Managers (well good ones anyway), have good relationships with people. That seemingly unimportant chitchat you're witnessing is actually relationship building. If people don't know you, how you tick, what you stand for, they can't trust you to manage them. Relationship are everything for career building - humans need connection and tend to trust people who they feel they can be open with. Manager isn't just a title. It's someone who takes an interest in their fellow humans and know whats going on for them. Unfortunately some people are very very very good at pretending and don't actually care and are horrible to work for.

    You can start by asking people about themselves. Pets and movies is a good place to start. "How's your dog going?" And then remember their answer. The next time you see them you say "I remember your dog had some issues with his leg, how is it doing now?" Then they feel like you are actually interested in them.

    But you really need to work on your relationship building skills, and that is just practice and a bit of guidance from someone with experience. Go to your boss and sit down with them, say you would like to aim for this role next time it comes up, and ask them for an achievable plan to get there.

    It sounds like you just need to the tools to this - I recommend going and seeing a career coach for this kind of thing, it can be very helpful. You have to be interest in what people have going on in their lives, and you have to remember a bit of it. It's something many are not conditioned to do but it is absolutely achievable.

  • squaredonut on 11/04/2023 - 15:58

    The reality is humans are social animals by nature, of course there's a lot that aren't. There are also many who think that socialising is a waste of time. These are the type that probably wish they can sleep 2 hours and work 22 hours a day.

    But the reality is there's lots of people out there who value their life instead of their work. Work is a means to get paid and for them to continue to have good life experiences. They will do what they need to get by. With that said, imagine if you were managed by someone whom was like you. Imagine they are managing a team of 4 people. By your reasoning 1 hour is already too much chit chat, then you can only get 15 minutes of chit chat with each of your team members a day.

    Now then imagine two of these team members at any given time, have personal issues going in their lives. 15 minutes is not going to cut it to figure out and probe the issue out of them for you to help them.

    Also these longer convos with each of their team members is vital in order to keep them happy, and even if it's for show, is assurance that their manager cares about them.

    I think it's not easy to change that mindset, but if you really want this sort of managerial role, you need to understand that the role itself will end up shifting your work from doing 8 hours of pure work, to literally 3-4 hours of pure work and 5 hours of managing, whether it's on a personal level or whether it's just getting stuff the team needs.

    You really need to ask yourself, even if the 5 hours of managing you're doing is boring an non-productive in your eyes, do you think you could handle that shift?

    In the world of Software Development for example, there's heaps of people who have strong tech skills, and the natural progression is up to be a lead, manager etc, but ultimately for the hardcore tech focus, they just want to code, they don't want to deal with managing people, so as a result a lot of them just end up downgrading back to being just a senior dev.

  • tril3mma on 11/04/2023 - 16:03

    Hey mate just my 2 cents I’ve seen every type of personality in managerial roles so put it down to how confidence you come across. If the same company isn’t valuing your personal development it’s time to leave.

  • 2esc on 11/04/2023 - 16:22

    Yes you can but can depend on a lot of factors such as does management actually know your abilities and past record.

    Im pretty quiet and not interested in being one of the boys but i get the job done i have a touch OCD and pedantic about quality of work communicate well bosses liked that so ive never had a problem progressing.

    But if you cant communicate well that can be a big hurdle for some.

  • Himynameisdave on 11/04/2023 - 16:53
    +1

    Sorry to hear OP.

    Scrolling down the chat reminded me of a podcast made by freakonomics radio episode: why are there so many bad bosses.

    I highly recommend you watch it on your spare time. But the part I wanted to highlight is (in quote):

    “When these firms select people to be managers based on their current job performance, they are actively making themselves worse off. ”

    This was a study done by Kelly Shue and she was asking: does being a good salesperson make you a good manager of other salespeople?

    Getting stuff done is great and your work experience might be best in class, but a manager is about managing people. I’m not saying you won’t be good at it but others might perceive it that way based on past interactions.

    But the podcast also said businesses usually promote these people anyways. So there is no reason why you can’t be either.

    Perhaps next time consider being very vocal about wanting to become a people leader to your line manager or any big bosses and ask them for help/progression planning so you know you can tick all the boxes.

    Also there are now a lot of individual contributor roles that pay just as well as a manager role so if you like getting stuff done you can pursue that also.

    All the best OP. Keep your head up!

  • whatgift on 11/04/2023 - 17:02

    I am considered a hard worker and get a lot of respect from my co-workers and managers, but I know I'm not management material - I can organise and get things done, but managing and dealing with people is not my strong point. I also don't properly stand up to people where necessary (i.e. a coward).

    I've tried management but I recall each experience as the worst times I've spent working, so don't seek it out anymore. Unless I need extra money, what's the point?

  • RolandWaites on 11/04/2023 - 17:29
    +1

    To be a manager not only must you be vocal, engaged and willing to make friends with your colleagues — in most businesses you also need to be a ruthless "yes" man or woman. Cower to the company line at all times, show no willingness to stray from Corporate's targets and be willing to let those above you walk all over you if it means a quick and easy annual review.

  • Drakesy on 11/04/2023 - 17:55
    +2

    Need to come out of your shell.

    I've had highly talented and gifted managers who are useless at people skills and interacting.
    They do great work, their team does not and consistently blew budgets.

    Unfortunately, i agree with your workplace.

  • mboez on 11/04/2023 - 18:35

    I'm a "quiet achiever" who got promoted to a manager. I would say it's dependent on your own manager(s) having an open mind. My own manager (who promoted me) is very social but also puts in a lot of effort into work; he's a high achiever who valued my competence and I guess felt that I was sane enough to manage people. If you're surrounded by the type of "social" people who only lift up people who are like themselves then you probably won't get anywhere.

    Then again, all we know about you is how you describe yourself and you might actually be considered antisocial or not as competent as you think.

  • diceman99 on 11/04/2023 - 18:58

    Your employer doesn't value you. Get a new job

  • Cheap Bastard on 11/04/2023 - 19:56
    +5

    I'm not an introvert, an extrovert, or an ambivert. I'm a pervert.

    • May4th on 11/04/2023 - 20:05

      at least you demonstrate remarkable insight which is more than could be said for a lot of people..

  • lookingforTV on 11/04/2023 - 21:28
    +3

    Well, considering how many people have given genuine advice to the OP - he responded with silence. I am with him on the 'quiet' part but the 'achiever' part? Questionable.

  • CSC on 11/04/2023 - 21:51

    To get the promotion to manager it takes several elements.

    1. You are technically strong and organised. You'll you know if juniors seek you out for advice and seniors give you more responsibilty.
    2. You are a belong to the faction in power, ie who decides the promotions and unfortunately, of the prefered ethnicity. This works both ways.
    3. You have to express an interest during annual reviews/informal chats, have it built into development plans.

    The journey is different for each. I'll tell you a bit of mine.

    1. I expressed an interest and formally put it on the plan.
    2. I enrolled in various trainings appropriate for aspiring or new managers such as leadership courses.
    3. Asigned to mentor officially and unofficially junior staff.
    4. Take on additional administrative and organisational tasks to ensure that things run on time, or are done right. I ended up chairing the weekly meeting, setting the adgenda and reminding the team of the priorities and key tasks. Also for planning and running the budget.
    5. Acting opportunities to step in when the manager goes on leave.

    So i was well set for a promotion. The problem i had was you can be too good at your job and pigeon holed. So i was passed over. Also the sucessful candidate was a peer that worked together with financial controller in a previous job. Then, new management came in and i was no longer in the social circle. All manager (and all other roles) ended up being hired externally, all white All three capable internal senior accountants, of chinese, indian and sri lankan descent were passed over a second time.

    Having exhausted any futher learning opportunities, i resigned. I did find a new job manager position. It was challenging as you are competing with others that have formal experience. But for small teams of two to four, i had been doing it for years, even without hhe formal title.

    So my advice is dont give up hope. Be proactive in obtaining the right qualifications andvon the job experience. Overtime you will morph into what you aim to be, with increasing confidence.

  • pufffdragon on 11/04/2023 - 22:22

    People who move up know how to talk. They don't necessarily know the job better or actually do any work. But as long as you can laugh and bullshit with people all day long then you won't have any problems.
    Honestly, it's too exhausting thinking about it if you're introverted.

  • Praeto on 11/04/2023 - 22:37
    +2

    You definitely can move into management roles as an introvert that struggles with the relationship building, but only if you find an alternate way to get peoples attention. I'm very introverted, I've never been particularly good at building relationships or small talk, but I've been managing staff for 15+ years.

    The suggestion I give all my staff and friends is pretty simple. Find something that interests you where you work, reach out to someone on the team, and offer to act as a backup or support for them. Tell them you're interested in what they do, and you want to learn. In return, you'll support them if they need it. I've done this in every role I've been in for more than 20 years, and I've always found someone willing to do it. In some companies they have official mentoring as an option, but there's nothing stopping you from asking if they don't.

    I got my first team leader role as a result of applying for a different role and not getting it. I reached out to the guy that did get the role, and told him I'd like to learn, so I'd have more of a chance next time. The guy actually shared the training he received with me directly, and when another role came up 3 months later, they didn't even advertise it. They gave it to me because I was already up to speed. It shows people you're driven, that you want to learn and challenge yourself, gives you an ally on the team you're interested in, and training so you're at the top of the applicants if a role materializes.

    I've done this for over 20+ years, and its directly lead to every promotion and opportunity I've ever had. I've mentored countless people myself over the years, and many of them have ended up on my team, because as soon as a role opened up I grabbed them without even going through an interview process.

    Networking doesn't necessarily mean talking to everyone in the office. It can just be one person that happens to be in a position to open doors for you.

  • baldur on 11/04/2023 - 22:41
    -1

    You choose to be irrelevant and you stay irrelevant. I don't see any problem with this. It is quite normal.

  • brawndo on 11/04/2023 - 23:29

    Why do you actually want to be a manager?

  • Donaldhump on 12/04/2023 - 00:20
    +1

    The irony.

    One of my last colleagues didn’t speak to anyone, wfh every day, and just wanted to work alone using her own methods and didn’t follow good standards.

    She quit, then came back promoted to my boss and made all decisions like a dictator.

    I resigned after 1 week.
    She resigned 4 weeks later as couldn’t cope.

    Maybe they have a point, you need to be people person not a silent mouse

    Being a manager blows btw.

    You get what 20 percent more pay and deal with endless bullshit and meetings

  • Big Lez on 12/04/2023 - 00:27

    No matter how introverted you are, you should be able to make small talk to identify the hiring manager for that role in order to express your interest verbally prior to formally applying. If your introverted nature stopped you from doing this then you should probably take a step back and ask yourself if you really want the added responsibilities of being a verbal team leader who can and needs to communicate with generally everyone in a meaningful manner. As others have mentioned and as I've witnessed it's generally people managing skills that is the priority, certainly not true for every industry but in my industry it is.

  • whyisave on 12/04/2023 - 00:41

    A lot of times, people leave their managers, and not the company.

  • lunartemis on 12/04/2023 - 06:48

    I work in a school and i have always held some sort of managerial positions for the last 12 years and i am very quiet and introverted.

  • akl977ad on 12/04/2023 - 08:14

    I would go against the grain and say yes.

    There are many introverts at a managerial level. Highly specialised people who get paid managerial money. They get paid as much or even more than their managers.

    They don't manage anyone, but they get managerial money if that's what the OP is concerned about. Or just be a contractor they blow everyone else's salary out of the water.

  • Nebargains on 12/04/2023 - 08:23

    Did you even apply for these positions or did you simply speak up after the fact? I read the post as you were just overlooked and it expected it to be handed to you but I could be wrong.

    At least now you have some feedback that you can use to improve your self and better your chances at such a role in the future.

    • lostgoat on 12/04/2023 - 10:46

      Maybe the Dude makes millions of dollars for the company exclusively and can demand whatever he wants.
      No manager position = no me :) He can take his talent elsewhere .

  • yokel on 12/04/2023 - 09:56

    Yes the quiet type can get there. You have to do the work and change yourself. Try out toastmasters. The confidence to speak will help but the leadership and organisational skills are what is going to get you there.

  • Mulga Bill on 12/04/2023 - 10:42

    Create a development plan with your manager so they know your career goals. When a position comes up you will naturally be in their mind.

    Try to find a task you can take on with help from a couple people and manage that through to completion. Keep track of what the issue was, what you did to address it, how you managed the "team", and what was the outcome. This will give you some ammunition if you are selected for an interview next time.

  • Lief on 12/04/2023 - 10:56

    No and i wish that was an okay answer where i work, but no, i have to build up a capability profile for a promotion I don't want and won't get instead of doing my work. Christ.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2023 - 11:06

      Christ.

      Do they want you to do God's work but without the title?

  • payless69 on 12/04/2023 - 11:06
    -7

    Back in 1933 a quiet achiever gave up.
    Handed power to an ex prisoner.
    An immigrant from a former brutal empire.
    A short man with a moustache and a groin injury.
    A man that was not married but lived with a girlfriend against Christian rules. Big impact on the world all in the name of national socialism.
    Fast forward to 11 Feb 1990
    A man gets released from prison after 27 years. Becomes president, rules collapse, greedy Jews sell Australia's most valuable company to avoid paying taxes Downunder.
    2008 the US hands presidency to a Hawaiian citizen. He pumps money into the Ukraine to cause future havoc.
    After the Hawaiian was a fat man with German roots. Another fat guy dies at the hands of law enforcement.
    2019 A computer hacker gets 400 millions to try to develop antiviral warfare in the Ukraine.
    2021 his dad becomes the helm for the USA,
    Oh meanwhile the world stands still and blames it on China?
    Oh forgot:
    All will be fixed with a voice in parliament?

  • exit on 12/04/2023 - 13:29

    A good way to maximise your probability of progression as an introvert is to assess the company when you're interviewing with them. If they focus on "cultural fit", avoid. If they are a company that cares purely about experience and accomplishments, even though you have the personality of a door stop, then they will more likely focus on merit when making progression decisions.

  • umoddbro on 12/04/2023 - 13:47
    +1

    That's the hard truth, being a good worker alone will never progress you to higher up positions… It's all about networking and rubbing each others back. Your boss doesn't want someone who just does a good job working he wants someone who he can talk shit with and who can build rapport with his employees…same with your colleagues they don't want someone who excels at their job as that will potentially up the work standards/workload and soon you're gonna get complaints that you're micromanaging them. You need a skill that involves getting people to do their job properly without coming across like an a-hole which is hard unless you're already on good terms with everyone (and I mean not just lunch room chit chat but like you said asking about their families/personal life). Getting into a managerial position is about balancing your workload so you're seen as doing enough but not a complete slacker but also spending most your time just chit chatting and building relations. OP not everyone is cut out to be a manager, like myself I've accepted the fact I fit into the category of 'do my job and get the f@#$ outta there'. You can fake it till you make it, but in the end a lot of social cues that come from managing people come nautrally..

  • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 12/04/2023 - 14:54

    Management is not for everyone simple, there are good ones and lousy ones. Some people are more suited to being worker ants while others are more suited to telling people what to do and how to do it. A good Manager objectives is to be a be able to deliver the "right outcomes" from the worker ants. If the Manager needs to perform the function of the worker ants in addition to the "manager role" then that's a sign you got lousy worker ants. When you are part of a bloated corporate structure or enterprise all thisthis is easier said than done hence there is an art to all of this. Now if you want to get "noticed" you need to play the game of attention and not necessarily the game of "delivering quality". its the ability of leadership to differentiate these 2 which separates the men from the boys.

  • yamahamoto on 12/04/2023 - 15:19
    +1

    I was a quiet one. Very good at what I do and I was happy with work and had a great manager. He decided to leave so his position was open. I never thought I would be a manager but I thought there is no harm in applying for the role. I got a good interview and the feedback was too big of a jump from a technical role to manager. But work told me now they know I want to be a manager I will be given more responsibilities. A year later I am a manager. I am certainly more vocal now that I am a manager. I let my team work however way they want as long as they get the job done. But once in a while somone will not do what they supposed to do and you need to manage it. By managed I mean talk to them, talk to other people so yes you can’t be a successful quiet manager.

  • pxrnm on 12/04/2023 - 15:42

    At the end of the day, it is how the company develop you for your career goals i.e. to be a manager and how you progress after that investment.

    If your current work place:

    Just maintain that you are a quiet achiever and not cut out to be a manager;
    Not ever developing you or even given you a chance to expand your skills towards becoming a manager (eg. doing temporary higher duty covering maternity leave etc);
    Sent you for courses to improve your personal development towards becoming a manager.

    Time to go mate. The company pretty much do not want you to move up.

  • serpserpserp on 12/04/2023 - 16:30

    I don't think OP wants to be a manager. Just wants to get paid like one.

  • nikey2k27 on 12/04/2023 - 17:01

    sadly you need share more of you life to be like by people personal keep my personal life personal i know at company i am at will not get management role. keep work to work and personal to personal friends and family.

  • nikey2k27 on 12/04/2023 - 17:02

    Try out toastmasters

  • tessel on 12/04/2023 - 17:14

    No. You are a doer and get work done. Promoting you is bad for business.

    • baldur on 12/04/2023 - 17:20

      This.

  • Skramit on 12/04/2023 - 18:45
    +4

    In my experience of 20ish years, the best managers are the introverts who train/upskill themselves to be extroverted when required. This is a highly desirable skill set IMO.

    Introverts are often more measured and approachable as managers and level headed when the pressure is on. This usually results in a better team environment overall in my experience.

    The pure extroverts I’ve experienced as managers often resulted in a far more competitive/toxic work environment.

  • DiscoJango on 12/04/2023 - 19:46
    +1

    Squeaky wheel gets the oil.

  • drfuzzy on 12/04/2023 - 23:01
    +4

    OP needs a manager above him to help him organise his time to respond to the comments to his own post.

  • hawkshead on 13/04/2023 - 06:03

    I think maybe you should plan about how to improve when you aren't feeling so wounded by this.

  • stingy-oz on 13/04/2023 - 10:33

    There's a lot of good comments here OP but for someone that manages people and other managers, I wanted to give you some idea

    You mentioned the reason for being knocked back is because you're a "quiet achiever". It's a good comments because that's the perceptions of others have on you. People gives you work, you do your work and occasionally overachieving it, and go home. Generally for internal candidate, people needs to have some level of perceptions that you have stepped up to lead or influence, giving suggestions to improve the overalls, manage conversations calmly even if there's a fire burning, maintain the relationships etc. Don't under estimate the general chat that some managers do with others, it's a way to get feedbacks, comments, feelings towards certain topics etc.

    For the team, managers is someone they look up to when there's a disaster and not a hero of the team. If I have to hire a manager right now, I would pick someone that would calmly walk into a meeting room where customer is screaming, and still able to manage the customer's expectations then encourage the team to work towards that goal. It's easier said than done. I would not at all hire a "quiet achiever" but I would acknowledge that it's often the 'quiet achiever' that's holding the backbone of the team that keep the lights on.

    Think about this - if you have been given a corporate business decision tomorrow to fire someone from your team and incidentally, it's one of your best mates - would you do it and how would you do it? What other would you do?

    There are courses out there for "New leaders", good foundation to make you aware of what managers have to do. Learn them and practice them.

  • OwMeKnees on 13/04/2023 - 10:53

    As an Introvert that can turn on the extrovert, its a lot of work and hard on the introvert side.
    I was a manager of an excellent team for 4 years and it was good, I could just be there for them and guide where required and then go out there and advocate. They called me "The Flak Jacket".
    But I have managed difficult teams and those times were the worst.

    Why do you want to do the job? I know I started because I knew I could be better than the other possibilities

  • nobro25 on 13/04/2023 - 12:47

    Just from OP's description doesn't sound like they're motivated to get the manager job. You have to take ownership, can't just keep your head down do your work and hope to get noticed.
    Become more qualified, go to short training courses and look in managerial scenario's. Learn what actually encompasses as being a good manager.

    If you lack on certain traits go and acquire them. This isn't High School where the quiet kid in the back corner gets awarded a trophy for acing the maths quiz.

  • Muselibar on 13/04/2023 - 14:26

    Perhaps your organisation takes you for granted?
    Look for another job - they might change their tune. Or you might get a pay rise/promotion somewhere else.

    Also, management isn't always hard.
    I manage a small team, sure shit happens and staff make mistakes and we deal with it.
    I often have to deal with and apologise for things that went wrong that I had nothing to do with me.
    I don't make excuses, I just straight up apologise and try and fix it. The buck has to stop somewhere and sometimes people just want you to 'fix things'.

    But the organisation I work for is it in good shape. So perhaps I have it easier than most.

  • preferredusername on 13/04/2023 - 16:28

    I'm going to give a very HR-y response which is that, yes it's nice to be rewarded for your achievements with a promotion up the ol' corporate ladder, but if you wait for others to drive your development, you may end up disappointed. Also, just because you are an excellent Account Manager (as an example), it does not necessarily mean you will be an excellent Sales Manager. If you truly want that managerial position, it could start with having those discussions with your manager (or some other mentor) about where you want to be, and what you need to develop to get there. A good manager will not see it as an "I want your job" scenario; it is ultimately in their best interest to develop you. Employees who are underpaid or undervalued will either leave or underperform. You could also speak to someone in a role you would like to have and walk a day in their shoes. Good luck. Okay, there's my yearly OzB comment. See you in another year, everyone!

  • customundo on 13/04/2023 - 22:47

    What is your motivation? You sound like you are technically sound in your field so are you after the title/ acknowledgement, more money or self accomplishment?

    Depending on your field you could become a consultant or contractor with your own ABN. Better money (much more than 'managers'), no pointless performance reviews, get paid for every hour you work.

    Fundamentally you are being paid for your time and to do a job. If you can look past having a title you are one step closer to retiring earlier from the traditional rat-race.

  • whiskeyjack89 on 14/04/2023 - 10:28

    Yes, though it really depends on your workplace.

    I've seen quite a few quiet introverts become managers - the main thing they have in common is that they are nice people.

    Some have had to switch companies to get that role, and some have just had to wait a bit longer to be recognised.

    Some places just want a chatty extroverted person no matter what, if that's your workplace, start looking elsewhere as the culture does not fit your desires.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 14/04/2023 - 12:10

    IME I am great at what I do / I can pretty much do my job with my eyes closed even though there is still plenty to learn etc. but I am often overlooked because I do not add value to my organisation. Adding value is not about doing my role great because they could either train someone / build someone up to my level (hard but doable). Adding value is being innovative, finding out systemic ways to increase the value or decreasing cost. Or increasing non-financial value eg goodwill while minimising reputational risk etc.

  • Kempe on 14/04/2023 - 12:48

    Your not really a quiet achiever as you havent achieved being knocoked back twice!

    So your just a quiet non achiever

  • skyva on 14/04/2023 - 12:59

    Watch this video. It explains the three different types of employee, the bottom level being the "doer". People think because they are great at their job (doing stuff) that they will get promoted. Doesn't always happen.

    Hopefully it is helpful. It was for me.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPiXobBnCKI

  • electronicbits on 14/04/2023 - 13:18

    Have worked in IT for 20+ years. 15 of them as a contractor in Sydney.

    My take to your question: yes and no…. it depends on the culture of the company.

    Moving to the top, as a quiet achiever, is more difficult than if you were to make sure that you build relationships and your achievements are known.

    But once you are at the top, things could be potentially different. Yes, you obviously still need to keep those relationships

    But, you can be an introverted, and be a good manager. You can be an extroverted and be a good manager. The opposite also applies.

    It depends also on the politics of the company. In many ocasssions I see too much BS around, and many managers clearly acting on their own interests (they obviously have a lot of pressure from the top).

    There are cultures that allow BS to thrive. I tend to move away from such environments, as more often than not, it is a disfunctional environment, and normally there is a lot of employee turnover.

    But having said that, and as long as the culture so allows it, the wellbeing of the team is my priority, accomplishing the objectives comes next. Finding also a balance is tough. Again, depends on the culture.

    I once worked for a company where the manager was also an engineer. Pretty quiet person, calmed, focused.

    But above all, he was also an enabler. When there was an issue, he would get us together to find a way to solve such issue. And he would make sure to recognize any achievement you would make to the company.

  • Jaysful on 14/04/2023 - 13:31
    +1

    RIP OP, but the post is still courageous. I think most true quiet achievers aren't interested in managerial jobs because it's the opposite of how they work and what they enjoy. Going from being super good at what you then stopping that to spend your time in budget meetings, doing performance reviews, doing leadership courses/training, networking, mingling/stakeholder, etc. Sounds like a nightmare for a 'quiet achiever' tbh.

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