——update——-
It seems the deal is only for Pixel 4, not include Pixel 4XL. <— from JB staff.
Went to JB for Telstra 12 months deal $65 with $500 gift card. A guy told me that Telstra is going to run a same deal for Pixel 4 with only $199 for the handset.
Also available on the same plan:
Samsung Galaxy S10e $99, Note10 $799
Huawei P30 $199, OPPO Reno 5G $499
Update: Confirmed by a few users, that deal has been extended to 6th of November (Page/Deal has been removed from website though).
@takutox: Alright, no need to get so worked up.
HOWEVER, do you understand why the ETC is waived?
Sure. And that's the loophole I was talking about. No company would willingly sell the Pixel 4 for $199 or even $589 right now. The only way to get that price now is to exploit a loophole.
It is because we are upgrading to an eligible plan
And that's where the live chat rep made their mistake. You signed up for a 12 month plan with a $390 ETC. The rep shouldn't be waiving it. They realised their mistake later on which is why you find so many people saying the rep wouldn't do it, but try 10 times and you might find one who would.
If you're one of the lucky ones who got it actually waived, then great! But if not, well, you did sign up for a plan with a $390 ETC in the first place. Bring it to the TIO if you wish, I am quite curious to see how they respond to a wave of people signing up for plans with the full intent of exploiting a loophole.
2) The CORRECT thing is to give customers the waiver, since there is nowhere that states JB HIfi is excluded on their entire website or in any contract
Did the contract you signed say that you can terminate it by changing to a month-to-month plan with no ETC? Did the rep make a mistake by waiving the ETC?
The way I see it, if I signed up for a 12 month plan then change it to a month to month plan, the 12 month plan has been terminated - early. So I won't be surprised if I get charged the Early Termination Charge highlighted in the contract I signed. If they let it go then great! But if they don't, even though someone might have made a mistake by waiving it, I know what I signed up for.
I may be 100% legally entitled to the ETC waiver, but I probably wouldn't pursue it too much as I'm sure someone would have gotten in trouble because for costing the company so much money.
4) Racism because you are painting them as helpless/poor
Having seen first hand how many people there are, I would say there's a good reason why they're considered a third world country.
and that we should just give up our legally entitled $399 AUD
Entitled due to a genuine mistake that was made by a rep? Quite possibly. But what are the consequences to the web chat staff of so many of us gaining that $399 each?
a few of them are highly educated and do have assets (more than me even as a full time worker in Aus)
Sure. But how do you know that the rep who served you is highly educated and owns more assets than you? Even if they were, does that make it fine to get them in trouble at work so we can get a cheap phone?
You just linked 3 links with 5 downvotes, in fact the last one has 10 downvotes. The first one has ZERO upvotes and 5 people disagreeing with that person. Ironically, you're proving my point, not yours.
Hmm? You said you didn't think there were any examples where OzBers have reported businesses for "exploiting loopholes". I gave examples where OzBers have reported businesses for pricing errors, which isn't even a loophole. Of course people will downvote them - they're wrong. The point was there are people out there who do it - you didn't think there were.
@eug: Your counter argument is completely full of logical fallacies, I will show you why.
1) Ad hominem attack right off the bat - "Alright, no need to get so worked up"
2) You keep talking about the original $390 contract as if a second contract can't affect the first contract. However, a second contract can definitely have a legally binding effect on what was in the first contract. For example, you can have a contract where you owe $8000 on a credit card with ANZ. You then sign up with a new contract with CBA, and they agree to pay off and do a balance transfer of the $8000 to your new CBA credit card, in fact even the same company to same company can do a balance transfer. This is identical to what has happened here. You keep talking about the first contract which is irrelevant. Hoover didn't intend for people to buy the cheapest vacuum cleaners and washing machines, yet that didn't stop them from going bankrupt. Telstra didn't intend for people to upgrade out of that plan, but that didn't stop us from upgrading. AA didn't intend for the unlimited first class pass to be used for 300 first class flights a year. And yes, it is listed and considered as an upgrade on both the chat and the website.
3) You keep saying it is a mistake made by the rep, but it is completely legally allowed and stated that you are allowed to upgrade to get a contract waiver
4) Ever heard of the logical fallacy 'Proof by Example'? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_example This is what you are doing. Sure, a few people out of tens of thousands ozbargainers are bad apples, that doesn't mean that this should be applied to any of us who are forwarding our transcripts (and rightly so). You did provide examples, but those examples (ok great, you proved me wrong by nitpicking but you didn't counter the spirit of my argument at all) make the point you're trying to make look incorrect. Look at the backlash we give on anyone who does that. It's like saying I don't think there are any examples of ozbargainers being scammers - the spirit of the message being that we're generally a trustworthy community. Then linking to a classified of a user who was banned and then saying 'no look, this guy scammed someone'. Technically correct, but providing isolated examples doesn't support your case of what the Ozbargain community is as a whole.
Also, they're objectively legally incorrect to demand that the company honours their price error. They can provide a refund instead.
Here we are legally correct. Big difference. Let me reiterate, the contract doesn't say anywhere that JBHIFI plan is excluded. The customer reps saying that the ETC is x and contract waiver is voided "because you're on a JB Hifi plan" are the incorrect/fradulent ones, not the ones that rightly waived the ETC. You can't just make up rules in the contract as you see fit after its already been agreed to.
Also, as below, this 'loophole' has been allowed at Telstra for more than a year.
1) Ad hominem attack right off the bat - "Alright, no need to get so worked up"
Attack? You were shouting multiple times in CAPS. There is no need to get so worked up over this. Unless you didn't realise using all caps online is the equivalent of shouting?
You keep talking about the original $390 contract as if a second contract can't affect the first contract.
Do read my posts again. The second contract can affect the first contract. But I believe the rep made a mistake in replacing the 12-month contract with a month-to-month plan.
Don't forget that later on it got harder and harder for people to change to the month-to-month plan. Clearly they realised it was a mistake - otherwise no one would have any issues changing to a month-to-month plan.
This is identical to what has happened here.
It is not identical. There's a good reason why it's very difficult to have good analogies in online discussions. It's a deep rabbit hole and I don't think it would be beneficial to delve into analogies in this scenario.
3) You keep saying it is a mistake made by the rep,
If it was not a mistake, why did Telstra refuse to do it once they realised lots of people are doing it?
but it is completely legally allowed and stated that you are allowed to upgrade to get a contract waiver
Do you consider changing from a 12-month contract to a no-contract plan an upgrade?
4) Ever heard of the logical fallacy 'Proof by Example'?
I'm really not sure why you're making it so complicated. This is what you said:
I also don't think there are any examples of a business using a 'loophole' to get out of a contract where ozbargainers have reported them. I think its pretty well understood that a pricing error is disappointing but usually allowed in their T&C.
i.e. you did not think there were any ozbargainers who reported businesses using 'loopholes' (pricing errors in this case) to get out of contracts.
So I gave examples where ozbargainers did exactly that.
That's it.
Here we are legally correct. Big difference. Let me reiterate, the contract doesn't say anywhere that JBHIFI plan is excluded.
This is why lawyers make lots of money. In your opinion you are correct. But Telstra's highly-paid lawyers would probably be able to argue otherwise.
That's why I'm quite interested to see the TIO's response if anyone does report them. We all know we're exploiting a loophole. The TIO would know we're all exploiting a loophole. How would they react?
@eug: Also, you asked 'how do I know'
At the time, I was curious/waiting and looked up the customer service rep who changed the plan for me on linkedin. They had university education and 10+ years of customer service experience at big companies, their English was perfect (I found most reps had perfect English), and yes, they were from the Phillipines.
If you think they don't get paid enough or get unfairly punished, take it up with Telstra not us.
At the time, I was curious/waiting and looked up the customer service rep who changed the plan for me on linkedin. They had university education and 10+ years of customer service experience at big companies, their English was perfect (I found most reps had perfect English), and yes, they were from the Phillipines.
Does that make it alright to possibly get them in trouble with their bosses just so we can get cheap phones?
If you think they don't get paid enough or get unfairly punished, take it up with Telstra not us.
Does this summarise your stance?
"It does not matter to me what happens to them, I am going to fight to exploit this loophole and get a $0 ETC so I can get a $199 Pixel 4."
@eug: Your entire post contains no actual responses or logic.
Basically your response to all points is "yeah nah", "yeah nah", "yeah nah".
Your entire second post is just using the logical fallacy of Emotional Appeal (won't somebody think of the children!!)
I'm all up for a discussion but if you are raising absolutely no points then its a worthless discussion.
It is not my opinion that we are legally in the right, it is an objective fact. Can you list anywhere in our contracts or terms and conditions where it says this plan is ineligible for the waiver when upgrading? Yeah, that's what I thought. Unfortunately in law your opinion and feelings counts for nothing if it is stated right there in the contract that the fee is waived.
"Telstra can probably argue with their high paid lawyers". This one makes me laugh. We all agreed to a contract that clearly states our ETC is waived. Your emotional state on what is right and wrong is not an argument. Your points do not contain anything legal or anything logical. Its just about how you feel and how wrong it is, which as you've seen is entirely subjective.
Your entire post contains no actual responses or logic.
That is because you choose to only read the parts that you want.
I'm all up for a discussion but if you are raising absolutely no points then its a worthless discussion.
Yes, this is absolutely a worthless discussion. Nothing any of us says here will change anything - what matters is whether or not Telstra decides or manages to charge the ETC in the end.
Can you list anywhere in our contracts or terms and conditions where it says this plan is ineligible for the waiver when upgrading? Yeah, that's what I thought.
Once again, you're fixating on one point and not the crux of the message I was putting across. Some people would say there's more to life than making sure you always get your way even if you're legally in the right.
"Telstra can probably argue with their high paid lawyers". This one makes me laugh.
OK, let's wait and see what happens. If people report this to the TIO and they side with them, then you're right. If Telstra manages to enforce the ETC, then I'm right. Really, at the end of the day it absolutely does not matter what any of us thinks - it is up to how their lawyers interpret this.
@eug: "I believe the rep made a mistake in blah blah blah"
Even without the rep you can go through the website and it still shows the waiver to this day. Your point is moot, and I did read your post. Your point was "I signed the first contract saying ETC was $390". Nowhere did you mention the second contract, so don't go and pretend you did. In fact you said it four times (b..b..b..but I signed the first contract that said $390 - you used this as a CORE argument).
Even without the rep you can go through the website and it still shows the waiver to this day.
Where exactly is this? When I try to switch my plan on the website, it says "You can switch your plan, but we need to let you know that it will cost at least $379.52 today."
@eug you sound like a butt hurt jbhifi/telstra staff member..
listen we are here, we done it we took the phone we cancelled, do something about it :P
you sound like a butt hurt jbhifi/telstra staff member..
No need for childish insults now. You signed a contract so I'm sure you're not still 12.
im 12, and i fooled you guys. you still sound butt hurt lol
@eug: congratz for being right about one thing, you are still wrong about the other thing,
also you know how i know im talking to a dinosaur? because it thinks that butt hurt is an insult lol
@eug: you are doing exactly the same for me, so thanks.
✓dinosaur
✓ignorant
✓psychic professional age guesser
✓jbhifi team member
Although I agree with you, ranting here wouldn't change a thing. People are just greedy, they take what they can get. This loophole have been around for almost a year, I'm sure some JB hifi or Telstra staffs have notice this loophole and have reported this issue to the upper management. The bigger question is why they haven't fix it or why they keep publishing new JB Telstra deal every week.
Before Telstra actually fixed their system, people will keep abusing this loophole and there's nothing you can do about it. You can either enjoy this loophole or be the good guy. If you think this is morally wrong and want to be the good guy, you better not read any Telstra deal comments.
could not have said it better myself
I miss buying apps with telstra credit
Although I agree with you, ranting here wouldn't change a thing.
It wasn't a rant, it was just one line saying I hope people show these reps some grace and not get them in trouble for the sake of a deal. Then others started replying, so I replied and somehow everything became a wall of text.
If Telstra gives the $0 ETC then great! Bargain phone. If they don't, well… someone mentioned taking it to the TIO, someone else mentioned they'll argue it off, which is what prompted my initial post.
You can either enjoy this loophole or be the good guy.
I think everyone enjoyed the loophole while it was open - that's part of 'the game'. But it looks like they caught on and closed the loophole. As a result there are people who got caught out and want to argue their way out. IMHO being legally right is one thing, thinking of how our actions may affect other people is another.
Personally I would only enter the game thinking "this might end up costing me $390+$199" rather than "I am getting this phone for $199 and I will argue or go to the TIO if I don't get to take advantage of this loophole".
If 2,000 people (out of the 16,000 clicks) managed to get this $1049 phone (lets say their cost price is $650) for $199, that's a loss of $451 per phone, or just under a million dollars lost. It's no surprise they'd be trying to prevent that loss. Someone's probably having a bad day from this!
This loophole have been around for almost a year
Hmm, I haven't been following their phone deals. Were there equally good deals like this in the past? A just-released $1049 phone for $199, or even $199+$390?
Still going…
I got your point and I agree but people are greedy and you can't change that. That's it.
Yep, instead lets just take $1 million from all of the customers who signed contracts stating the fee was waived and wouldn't have bought the phone otherwise.
Forget about what's legally correct, lets donate all of our money. LOL @ you losers who are providing your transcripts and/or contacting the TIO to get your legally entitled contract rights that you signed. Just pay the amount that it doesn't state anywhere in your new contract and get on with it.
and tell all of these people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_free_flights_promotion
that they shouldn't get the free flights, god damn morally bankrupt losers. how dare they take advantage of a loophole that is 100% allowed in the actual conditions (in fact the reps saying JB HIFi plan is excluded are legally incorrect as it says that nowhere on any terms or site in the entire world) and still hasn't been patched after an entire year. keep your 3 vacuums and dont ask for the flight, losers.
in fact as clock is ticking it still isnt patched
Has anyone received a survey from Telstra regards to the recent （ JB pixel 4 deal）with a brand new handset? In the survey, it shows lots of questions related to usage, monthly charge, which new handset, any bonus and where did you sign the contract?
It seems Telstra is calculating the damage and maybe to find out who has used the loophole?
lol yeh i got it today. have not replied or done it.
haven't received any survey yet
I tried to change the plan online 3 days before and was told it was cancelled over the chat (see my previous comments):
Just got an email from Telstra (weird, email domain is test.team.telstra.com):
From:
[email protected]
Thanks for placing your order with the Telstra Online Shop - order no. {ORDER no}.
Unfortunately, your existing Telstra account isn't compatible with the plan you've chosen.
This means we can't proceed with your order so it's been cancelled. We'll refund any delivery charges and/or purchase amount you've already paid us to the credit card you used to place the order.
To find out what your options are, or if you have any questions, you can contact our online support team via Live Chat. We're here to help 24 hours, 7 days.
Best regards,
Hey guys. Got my online bill today and was charged $3.71 for 1 day of JB plan and 1 day of M2M. Is this already my final bill? Or there’s still a chance that I will be charged an ETC on a bill that I will receive through post?
Hey guys went to jb Hi-Fi but been advised that the company pulled the deal off on the 30th oct without any notice, so there u go u snooze u loose although I went there last week and the guy showed me a broucher saying 6th nov in fine print.
Although I’ve asked him to show me what’s the new list
As follow
S10e- $99
note10 256gb-$799
Xiaomi mix 3-$199
Another few good phones $199
They all expired last night
I got my 1st bill.
Says "Mobile Plan Small" and the charge is "$1.61".
"Payment is not required until your next bill"
That's interesting. So that's the one you swapped over to. Have you cancelled that one?
Did you get a JB plan bill before that?
I never received JB plan bill.
I got charged $4 for medium plan and bill pdf says the same thing however if you read the email, it tells you the bill is due by certain date.
Mine was 22 Nov. Billing period shows the date of sign up for JB plan so I assume it's final bill.
Yeah due 22 Nov on the email but not bill.
My billing period was 2/11 - 2/11.
@Rakddon: I got my first bill due 22/11.
30/10 signed up
30/10 changed MTM that night.
31/10 Cancelled MTM
$53.53
break down $3.53 was for 30/10 and 31/10
$50 was for 1 month in advance for 1/11-30/11.
Didn't get a final bill…or amended bill since it got cancelled on 31/10
@impoze: No, my serviced got removed from my Telstra's account and the bill came like 4 or 5 days after it was cancelled.
Still not sure if I will get an amendment bill for the 2 days with Telstra. For sure there's no ETC just the 1 month in advance is charged when my serviced is turned off.
@bibimbap: I concur. As soon as I ported to Boost my number was removed from the account. So I'm confident the $2.90 charged is my final bill for this saga.
@bibimbap: For me:
2/11 signed up
2/11 changed to M2M
3/11 changed to prepaid
6/11 received bill of $1.61
I'm still waiting for my next bill as it says on my 1st bill.
Thinking I should pay the $1.61 now though before the 22nd.
Yeah I changed to the $50 M2M plan.
I have changed to pre-paid after that.
No JB plan bill yet.
Sounds like they're working out the JB plan charges manually, given the system has this gaping wide loophole.
I've only got the small JB bill so far.
well i havent got a single bill and i signed up around when the deal got posted
I got a bill yesterday after transferring to M2M.
Got 1days billed for the JB plan. 9 days billed for M2M plan then the 30 days for next month's M2M.
Nothing else in regards to cancellation. Although I did mine by online chat
I've just spoken to chat (billing) to confirm what outstanding amounts on my account are and they have advised the $1.61 is the only charge.
For some reason I feel there is another bill coming shortly.
Haven’t been noticed to pick up the phone yet. But already got jb65 bill from Telstra for the whole next month…date since the second day I signed up. Anyone knows is this normal? Thanks!
Not normal. If you got the bill I'm assuming you've been ported over. So go get your phone.
Thanks for the suggestion. I signed up the plan for another phone (sorry for didn't mention before), it was out of stock when I signed up. So I have to wait for them to order then I could pick up. I didn't make any change to the jb65 plan because I've seen other's post that the phone order might be canceled if change too quickly. But today while I'm still waiting for the pick up call, I received a Telstra email bill with two charge: one for 4th November-$2.097(the day I signed up) and one for 5th Nov-4 Dec ($65). It just doesn't seem like "post-paid" to me because the due date is 25th Nov.. Just thought it is weird to receive a bill so early since I just signed up for several days.
Telstra charge in advance
@snvl: Cool thanks. I guess it will make it a little bit more complicated if I want to change plan after receiving the phone..
that is not a bill, read the top of the page, it says estimated bill
Nope, nowhere indicating that's estimated.. "Your new Telstra bill is attached. Please ensure we receive your payment by the due date of 25 Nov 2019."
hmm maybe you wited a whole day before you cancel it, i usually swapped and cancelled same day, idk we will wait and see, havent got my bill yet.. weird
Was anyone able to get the 5,000 bonus telstra plus points for switching to the m2m plan?
i did not.
Not yet
Any of you taken your phone overseas and claimed TRS? Were you successful and did you repackage the phone for evidence?
You don’t need to repackage the phone as you can show the IMEI on the phone and receipt for verification.
So they're happy for you to be using the phone? Historically had to show the item as new and unused…..or am I mistaken?
You just need to show them the item to prove you are taking it overseas and not buying it and then leaving it here and claiming the GST back. You are able to freely use the item while you are waiting to go away.
@whooah1979: The receipt covers the full cost of the phone, there would be little point in trying to claim otherwise.
@whooah1979: You pay $200 for the phone, but the receipt has a gift card for the balance so your Invoice is for the full retail value of the phone
@Mattycee: So you may claim the full value of the tax invoice on TRS, but on the return only declare (or not declare) the value of the good. This is a win win.
anyone have an update today?
Got the phone today. When chatting Telstra online, the rep says "Oh, I see. Apologies if this was not properly explained to you upon signing up to your JB HiFi Plan. Although JB HiFi is partnered with Telstra, their offers are independent from what we offer online and via Live Chat. We are unable to waive the cancellation fees associated with your JB HiFi Plan as these are charges for terminating your contract with JB HiFi, and not with Telstra. As much as we love to, we are unable to waive these charges are these are considered as valid and we do not have any means to override the charges in the system. "
Seems like they are prepared
Close and start again. you'll eventually get one who'll do it.
Thanks! Good to know that.
Any luck?
Changed to M2M via chat and waived the ETC. Now account showing $50 M2M. I need to keep the number and port out to another service. Wondering if I need to move to pre-paid fist or just cancel and port directly.
Nice work!
How many times did it take?
Changed the second time! I did it via plans page. The sales staff are pretty nice. Just remembered you move to pre-paid. May I ask if you did that because you want to stay with Telstra or it's easy to port out after change to pre-paid?
@LLOzBargain: That's good! 2 times!!
I moved to pre-paid so i didn't need to buy a new sim and waste $2 :) and i couldn't be bothered to go to the store to get the sim.
I just wanted to be off the M2M as quick as possible so moving to pre-paid was the most easiest and cost effective.
It helps I don't care about the number but if you do want to keep your number move it to pre-paid first as i believe if you port out Telstra will charge a $8 port out fee for the M2M?
@Rakddon: I'm talking with a Telstra staff now, she is saying that I don't need to contact them to cancel, I only need to activate another service and Telstra will port out without any cancelation charge and there will be no port out fee. And the M2M plan will be prorata charged. Idk if this is the same with others.
@LLOzBargain: Well yes you can port out without contacting them.
IF they are saying no port out fee then just port out and keep the chat as a record.
Done! :)
@Rakddon: Thanks. Then just waiting for the bill. The only strange thing is I got a jb65 bill just after signed up and asked me to pay 1 month in advance. I still have to pay for that and waiting for maybe other two bills including the final bill. Just hoping there will not be any surprise. :)
@Rakddon: "I believe when you signed the plan up, initially it is on a JB Hi-Fi Mobile Plans 09-2018? and you have changed the plan to the Mobile Plan Small, correct?
If you will to cancel the service completely you will be charge for the contract fee of the JB hifi PLan, it will reflect on the final bill — as we have this kind of scenario already, after the billing period, the ETC's reflected on the final bill and it is a valid fee (even if you have changed the plan to a month to month mobile plan)"
:( Just wondering have you received your final bill? A rep just replied with the above when I ask to port out.
@LLOzBargain: they said the same to me so I switched to prepaid then ported out.
It's hard to get them to cancel it. Switching to prepaid is a much simpler way.
I ported over to Telstra on 28/10 and still haven't received a bill. I switched to $80 m2m and then ported out to amaysim. I'm getting worried it'll be a massive one.
Started to think that they said there will not be ETC because they are referring to the M2M plan and maybe don't want to mention the ETC for JB plan even if they know..
Still trying with staff to cancel. They are all saying that port out the M2M will have no ETC but since there is a JB plan before, there will be ETC for that if I port out. Has anyone talk about this with any Telstra staff?
Once on M2M there is no ETC fee.
When I spoke to Telstra rep via online chat to change to M2M he advised. "There won't be any charge to change you mobile plan. The charge would only apply if you are to cancel your mobile service with Telstra".
So I assume that if you keep the number with Telstra under a prepaid number it should be fine but if you port out then that would be considered cancelling.
I see. So I guess what you mean is if move to pre-paid and just stop recharge and let it go with time it will be ok?
You don't understand what you're arguing against.
Yes, the ETC is $390 which we originally agreed to on the JB Hifi plan.
HOWEVER, do you understand why the ETC is waived? It is because we are upgrading to an eligible plan, which DOES state that it has a contract cancellation waiver. It still states this after 2 weeks. It still states this AS you are typing. THAT is where the waiver comes from, not the original contract, it WAIVES the cancellation fee of the previous plan. Therefore, a change to that plan is LEGALLY binding for Telstra to NOT charge us it.
You just linked 3 links with 5 downvotes, in fact the last one has 10 downvotes. The first one has ZERO upvotes and 5 people disagreeing with that person. Ironically, you're proving my point, not yours.
Regarding your sympathy illiciting on the poor poor Phillipine staff (nice covert racism there by the way).
1) They offer VERBAL contracts completely done through the chat which are 100% legally binding. It is their ENTIRE JOB to not mistakes when reciting contracts to the customers.
2) The CORRECT thing is to give customers the waiver, since there is nowhere that states JB HIfi is excluded on their entire website or in any contract
3) Racism because you are painting them as helpless/poor and that we should just give up our legally entitled $399 AUD - yeah, who cares about us - because they come from the Phillipines and are just poor old call center staff (lol). This is not always true, a few of them are highly educated and do have assets (more than me even as a full time worker in Aus) and a long customer service history. IF Telstra punishes them or underpays them for doing what is correct, that reflects more on Telstra than anything about Ozbargain.