Should Xbox Games Pass Adding Games Be Allowed as Deals?

jimbobaus on 04/01/2020 - 13:03
Last edited 14/02/2020 - 14:39 by 2 other users

So this was briefly discussed in the 2019 site suggestions thread

today a game was added and it has created a lot of heated debate on the actual post.
At the suggestion of Neil i have created a thread for all to discuss this

My Thoughts:
XGP adding games is no different from Spotify adding an album or Netflix adding a series or movie
You pay the subscription and if some thing is added its not a deal
if you can get the subscription cheap, now that's a deal

Lets try and play nice in this forum
everyone's opinion matters even if it does not match your own

Mod

  • Users who wish to block "Additions to Subscription Services" can do so by adding SUBS to their front page customisation.
  • Moderators & Power Users will add [SUBS] to any deals that fall under additions to Subscription Services.
  • Xbox Game Pass, Netflix, Hulu, Disney Plus are considered additions to subscription services. Playstation Plus and Games with Gold are not considered additions to subscription services as you need to claim/"buy them". We will tag any other services that may fall under these deals.
  • A reminder of how to block these kind of deals will be added to deals for a short term period, just as we do with targeted offers.
  • In the near future, the filter will apply to the new deals page along with the current front page. Filter now works with new deals page. My Account - Edit - Deals

Poll Options expired

  • 230
    YES
  • 368
    NO
Site Discussion

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Comments

  • zzyss on 24/01/2020 - 09:37
    +1

    Nevermind. I got here late. Good summary post above.

  • Herbse on 02/07/2021 - 22:15
    +1

    So with this option. We shouldn't get any negs on sub listings right?

    • spackbace on 05/07/2021 - 16:54
      +1

      That was meant to be the idea…

  • Tacooo on 17/12/2021 - 12:36
    +4

    Why should the onus be on users to block this stuff instead of having it as a default block? The poll results (which were conveniently ignored) clearly state that most people don't want these as they're not deals. Not to mention any post for subs gets downvoted and told to piss off to the forums. If we're going to allow subs for every streaming service in the world I'll start posting every new season release for all my shows because clearly there's nothing wrong with that?

  • dazza826 on 29/12/2021 - 15:20
    +2

    After this post this really should be looked at again.

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/674718?page=3#comment-1156…

    Under the current rules everytime any new show or any piece of content is released on these paid subscription services an ozb member can create a post for it.

    Announcements for content releasing on paid subscription services where you can't own the content or where there is no sort of promotion or bargain involved is a bit too much imo.

    It shouldn't be up to the users to have to block these so called deals.

    • heyimsu on 29/12/2021 - 17:58
      +3

      Need someone to start spamming new deals for these subscription services every time new content is released. Maybe then the mods will take notice.

      • spackbace on 29/12/2021 - 18:02

        People have tried before, but obvious trolling was removed as such and the OP's banned

      • Tacooo on 29/12/2021 - 19:31
        +1

        Mods have blatantly ignored the results of this poll as well as the numerous suggestions at this point. They don't give a (profanity) clearly.

        • Moderatorneil on 29/12/2021 - 23:39

          We don't base decisions based on polls in forum threads. We look at discussions, look at the voting on deals (very popular), the amount of [SUBS] deals posted (not many), Not sure how you think we don't care. I've made 100s of comments discussing the issue, we've created functionality to block the deals.

          • Clear on 30/12/2021 - 13:29
            +2

            @neil: I don't know how you have the patience to deal with this tbh. Is it so hard to ignore "deals" you don't like? Seems so 😑

          • apsilon on 31/12/2021 - 06:15

            @neil: Can you explain Spackbace's comment above that people have been banned for posting the same content when it was considered trolling? I'm not familiar with the case/s referred to but what makes one trolling and another not when it's been made clear that the decision is you can post a new release as a deal regardless of there being no change in price?

            By extension, when a new product is added to a store at normal price, can this be posted as a deal because that is essentially what's happening with these sub announcements?

            I've never posted a deal because generally by the time I come across something it's already here but if we're opening up the definition then I may do so.

            • spackbace on 31/12/2021 - 11:30

              @apsilon:

              Can you explain Spackbace's comment above that people have been banned for posting the same content when it was considered trolling? I'm not familiar with the case/s referred to but what makes one trolling and another not when it's been made clear that the decision is you can post a new release as a deal regardless of there being no change in price?

              I'll respond to my own comment…

              When someone posts a negative comment about SUBS deals, then goes and posts a deal for one, usually for something mediocre, it's pretty obvious that it's trolling

              • apsilon on 31/12/2021 - 12:00

                @spackbace: Or they've decided if you can't beat them, join them. A ban is a pretty significant thing to be handing out essentially without any proof and for something that is allowed under the rules. I believe the criteria should be clarified. I posted negative comments in the Fett thread. If I now post a sub deals in the future am I going to be banned? What about all the other people that posted negative comments in that and similar threads? Also banned in the future if they post a deal?

                • spackbace on 31/12/2021 - 13:40

                  @apsilon: Except they posted the 'deals' the same day. Obvious trolling was obvious. I'm not privvy to the actual deal post descriptions, but not hard to guess they posted out of spite, hence why mods took action to stop it becoming a shitshow of spam

            • Moderatorneil on 03/01/2022 - 13:30

              @apsilon: I think you are overthinking it. If you find a bargain and can show the community why it is a bargain, then feel free to post it. Those with any alternative motives like trying to make a inflammatory, comical, moderation of community messages (e.g. SUBS suck so I'm going to post rubbish in protest) are not welcome.

              Deal Posting Guidelines

              • apsilon on 03/01/2022 - 16:10

                @neil: Thanks. As standard pricing counts as a deal for items exclusive to a single retailer (per the many subs deals) I'll have some things to post in the near future.

                • spackbace on 03/01/2022 - 18:56

                  @apsilon: We look forward to your first deal post after 5+ years of being here, but don't be surprised if this comment comes back to you…

                  Agree. I may be interested in some actual deals on subs so don't want to block the lot but new shows being added aren't a deal IMO and shouldn't be posted as such.

                  As such, pretty obvious anything you post under a [SUBS] category will be trolling.

      • Moderatorneil on 29/12/2021 - 23:58

        Take notice of what? This literally is the thread to discuss subscriptions. If you have any further suggestions that I missed in the above please let us know.

    • Agret on 29/12/2021 - 19:24
      +1

      I think these SUBS deals should be hidden by default and in your profile should be tickboxes for which services you want to see these posts for.

  • colaman on 15/01/2022 - 10:33
    +2

    I thought this was a bargain site not what is coming soon to streaming site.

    I think people are upset because these shows form
    part of your subscription you pay for. These movies and shows don't make it better value. You pay your subscription because you expect there to be shows like this produced or added. If I want to see what's coming up on streaming, I go to a website that shows this info, not a bargain site. Unless that is one of the aims of this website going forward.

    Yes these are popular because people love it when new stuff is added to streaming. I know I do. That is why people upvote.

    I use a shared computer at times and this means everytime I want to look at this website and apply the SUB settings, I have to login. Most people who look at this site aren't logged in so have no say and maybe they don't care or maybe they are in the same boat as me.

    There are some subs that I do like when something on a service all of a sudden becomes free for an amount of time. I want to be able to take this up.

    We keep getting referred to how popular these posts are but no comments on how many negative votes these attract and how many get removed and how many comments are saying why are these being posted on a bargain site. It will continue to have a mixed reaction.

    I totally missed this original discussion when it was first raised and don't really expect anything to come from my comment but just wanted to leave how I feel about these and if enough people continue to add discussion that it may be looked at again down the track.

  • Nukkels on 20/01/2022 - 13:05

    While the site has added the ability to block all [SUBS] posts, many of them are useful if they're actually a bargain.

    What we need is clear rules on what constitutes a valid bargain regarding subscriptions. The Deal Posting Guidelines page needs to be updated to include deals for subscription services (they're only becoming more common) and to spell out in detail where the line is drawn on what is permitted.

    My suggestions based on repeated comments over the past few years:

    • Paying for a subscription service assumes that new content will be added - this content is not a bargain unless it is cheaper than another subscription or rental service
    • Bargains (by definition) must be a discounted price, not the first price it's ever been or the standard subscription price. Brand new content should be posted in the forums
    • Content on a subscription service that is only available for a short time (less than the usual subscription period), such as claiming Xbox Games with Gold, or purchasing a free movie on Youtube, are valid deals
    • Subscription deals should not be posted more than 1 <subscription period (typically 1 month)> before they start (currently the rule is 90 days)
    • You cannot compare the cost of 'renting' content on a subscription service to purchasing a game, movie, etc outright. Both can be valid bargains if they meet the other posting guidelines
    • spackbace on 20/01/2022 - 13:19

      Pretty sure the community is already deciding what is and isn't a bargain

      Game Pass deals regularly reach front page, as do 'most' Disney+ posts, and the odd Netflix/Amazon posts.

      1 or 2 posters seem to be learning what doesn't get received well (though common-sense would've dictated these posts would've been received poorly) so have adjusted what they do and don't post.

      If you browse "New Deals" you're bound to be scrolling through rubbish all the time, regardless of SUBS posts. If a SUBS post front-pages, then it's not about what you or I deem to be a bargain, it's about the community as a whole. Neil summed this up pretty well earlier

      • Nukkels on 20/01/2022 - 13:59

        This issue has been going on for years, so 'letting the community decide' is clearly not working - very few deals get as many negative votes as subscription posts, because it's not consistent.

        As you mentioned and Neil confirmed, it's apparently based purely on popularity - which is not mentioned anywhere in the official rules. There would probably be more posts if they weren't removed due to too many negative votes or by the mods for not being a bargain (despite a lack of rules for subscription posts).

        I'm not saying my definition is perfect, but it is a combination of the most commonly repeated complaints about this topic. If this was really decided by the community, there would have been some guidelines put in place by now - even if the guidelines simply state that it's based on popularity.

        • spackbace on 20/01/2022 - 14:03

          But none of your suggestions are accurate…

          Brand new content should be posted in the forums

          This isn't reflective of what's actually wanted

          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/672712
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/670487

          Those are the top 2 rated SUBS posts in December. Not a single neg vote on either one, and both hit 250 pos votes. Your suggestions would see both posts disappear to the forums, yet clearly both are wanted and appreciated

          Hell, by my 2min research, 5 deal posts have had more pos votes than the "No" option on this poll, none of which have a single neg vote remaining:

          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/575668
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/654224
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/606276
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/551679
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/630418

          That says something

          • Nukkels on 20/01/2022 - 16:03

            @spackbace:

            But none of your suggestions are accurate…

            Of course they're not 'accurate' - they're just my suggestions for improving clarity, not a listing of the current (lack of) rules! I'm not married to those specific suggestions, I'd just like something actually specified in the rules to cover this grey area.

            That says something

            All it says is that the mechanics of voting on this site skew things towards popularity - there's still a lack of consistent rules. Those who neg the deals have their comments negged, which eventually removes all the negative votes on the deal - almost all of the links you posted had multiple negative votes until they were revoked. Remember, that it's not only harder to make a negative vote (which also requires a comment), it's also harder to keep it valid too.

            You'll probably claim that means it's what the community wants, but in reality, all it shows is that the site is biased towards popular titles. A recent visa application has proved that pretty much everyone agrees that rules should be the same for everyone. And hey, if popularity is the measure of what's allowed, that's fine - I just want it quantified and listed in the posting guidelines.

            To be very clear here - I am NOT picking a side. You don't need to try and defend your position, because I'm not attacking it. I'm just pointing out the reason this is such a contentious issue is the lack of consistent rules.

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