I was too was WFH in Perth for a GTE and then moved to another GTE who prefer seeing you in the office (no where near as productive when in the office). When it was masks indoors we are allowed to WFH at least.
Is everyone WFH again (corporate)? » All Comments
What's a GTE?
Must be a common abbreviation used in Perth lol. Government Trading Enterprises…
@netjock, yep the Federal Gov't has royally stuffed it up
Federal or State? NSW,VIC QLD OR SA?
TAS :P
Melbourne here, beside a handful of self-organised work socials (colleague farewells etc), I've been fully WFH since March last year. Personally, I prefer working in the office more, however with the majority of my team opting to be 100% remote, it's made it pretty pointless for me to go in alone.
pretty pointless for me to go in alone.
Someone else paid for quiet space. Priceless.
WFH, the other half thinks I am working part time for them.
Yep.
WFH, the other half thinks I am working part time for them.
Any suggestions for managing this?
(asking for a friend of course)Noise cancelling headphones and a lockable door.
Book a lot of meetings. Pretend you got meetings. Repeat how much you actually are doing at work. I'm working 1.5 jobs at the moment.
But what about all that time you save commuting. You can spend that doing housework right? RIGHT?!?!!
play this whenever you need to and tell her that you're in a Zoom meeting :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53yPfrqbpkE&ab_channel=Waipa…
@arcticmonkey: Wow I watched about 30 seconds of that and skipped through - do they have to ask for someone to move a motion and then second it every time someone sneezes?
This is my problem as well. my other half decided to pickup son and left me with a crying baby that I had for one meeting then next meeting when son is back home he's yelling in the background for my next meeting. ha I dont have a private room :(
@Dr Techno: Sounds about right. You wonder how they survived in the past when the other half was at work.
Does the other half WFH too?
Same time period for me. I wouldn't mind going into the office sometimes, but I don't really want to be back there 40+ hours a week. One or two days a week would be good - just to get out of the house.
WA here - Covid, what covid?
Dude, it's COVID. All it takes is 3-4 cases for the threat of human extinction become real again, forcing the government to go into mass lockdown.
By the measures imposed you'd think we're losing thousands of hard-working Australians a day.
Don't know why you're being downvoted. As much as SlavOz must be one of Ozbargain's most frequent shitposters, a stopped clock is right twice a day and all… We have massive knee-jerk reactions here in WA, and watch a range of erratic reactions from elsewhere in the nation.
Maybe it's to do with the hyperbolic 'threat of human extinction'?
By the measures imposed you'd think we're losing thousands of hard-working Australians a day.
And if this actually had happened with no lockdown at all, you would say "Why didn't the government act earlier when it wasn't too bad!"
WA safe behind its Iron Ore Curtain.
WA, what WA?
Been ACT is even better, no travel restrictions, no covid. Been travelling around Aus except WA (SA x3, SYD x1, NT x1, Qld x1), thought of visiting WA, but anything good there? lol
Well, I'd rather visit WA than ACT 😂
Me neither, I'm too young for that, work ACT visit everywhere else is a lot better option haha
Enjoy your beaches over there in sunny ACT
Also sorry, I didn't mean to downvote your comment 😅
ACT do have a beach you know 😜
How's it going today spackbace.
Better get some bog rolls.
No lockdown 😉
True.
I hope you enjoy the footy at Perth Stadium today.
Should be a good game.
Hope you enjoy your overpriced pie and beer.
PS. I'd still stock up on bog rolls if i was you.
@mdavant: Never had plans to go to the game, thunderstorms here so went out for breakfast and now chilling at home with a Sunday roast later 😁
Hahah this aged well didn’t it?
shrug still not a lockdown
That’s not the point you were making though was it?
Enjoy
Speak too soon bahahahawa
Don't worry. It's coming soon to a state near you.
Well, NT is a state near me…
Territory :P
Ah fk 😕😂
Hope you got those bog rolls
Please confirm if you got the bog rolls
@spackbace covid said HIIIIII ;)
Melbourne based too and WFH 4 out of the 5 days.
As for masks, I believe it is misconceived that it restricts breathing! Shout out to all the healthcare workers wearing masks all day - thank you :)
How dare you call out the heavy breathers!
Yes, tell my neighbour who is a theatre nurse and wears PPE for hours non-stop, or any of those working at COVID testing sites, or vaccination sites, or in Intensive Care units.
At least we have options to not wear masks.
As for masks, I believe it is misconceived that it restricts breathing!
Seems like a blanket statement. Everyone breathes differently and has a different level of airway capacity.
Putting anything in front of your mouth is going to restrict breathing. The question is whether that restriction is something people can tolerate, which comes down to subjective response.
I imagine you have something in your mouth stopping you from talking which is why you're here subjecting us to this nonsense.
@Telios: Are you willing to receive my succulent Chinese meal….. get your masks of me! :P Ozbargain manifest!
It doesn’t restrict breathing, it catches some of the droplets you exhale to reduce risk of being exposed to pathogens for others (so if everyone wears one risk is reduced overall). If your breathing is restricted, you’ll know about it, quickly.
I’m not saying I agree with some of the ridiculous comments here, because of course we need to wear them, but actually when I wear a mask I do genuinely find it harder to breath. It may be because the air feels hotter, not sure, but doing a bit of strenuous movement and it becomes more difficult than if I had it off.
@Mortal Krumpet: Dude, it’s hotter because some of the air you’re breathing in is the air you exhaled, which has less oxygen.
Does that constitute restriction in breathing? I’ll let others debate that.
@cloudy: …Dude. I know. I was just saying that when I wear a mask, breathing is more difficult for me personally. Not saying much more than that really. It’s just my experience.
@Mortal Krumpet: of course it restricts your ability to breath, it's a mask that's meant to restrict how freely particles move in and out of you, it's going to somewhat restrict breathing. How much and if it's a problem is the question, probably not, no one is asking you to run a marathon in one.
I think the downvotes have more to do with the fact that it's SlavOz talking than anything else, something I only really clued on to the other day
@Jackson: I can't sugar coat this - anyone claiming their 'ability to breathe' is restricted needs to HTFU or STFU.
There are studies available on this topic now just to curb this nonsense - we can say with reasonable certainty that oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange levels are unaffected by mask usage to any significant degree.
You would need to be afflicted with a relatively severe pre-existing respritory complication in order for mask usage to become a health concern.
@cydia9k: So rather than put your rudeness on display, why don't you link to the studies or at least a story on one, so you can educate the community? You also just proved my point, by qualifying your statement, there is "some degree" of restriction, or there'd be no point wearing a mask
@Jackson: As I said, if you can't handle a piece of fabric on your face, harden up or shut up. I don't care to entertain the thought that it's 'restrictive' in any meaningful sense unless you have a legitemate respritory issue.
@Mortal Krumpet: get a looser mask? or different material? I do agree that some masks are harder to wear than others
@Mortal Krumpet: Are you wearing a cloth mask or a 3m style dust mask?
I've done asbestos removal in a mask in 30 degree heat, after a while you notice the restriction as the mask soaks through with sweat and stops you being able to breath. But if you can't breath through a normal mask you should be locking yourself in your house until covid clears because it will certainly kill you if your lungs are that weak.
A dust mask does restrict breathing a little, and a cloth feels annoying for a little while until you get used to it. But either is managable.
It dosnt restrict being able to breath. It dose restrict the ability to get air normally. Usually needing to work harder to intake the Same amount with a barrier there.
Is that really hard to understand ?
@T1OOO: @Cydia9k @gumbs
T1000’s comment is correct. It’s almost physically impossible for this not to be the case based on what the mask needs to do.
You seem to interpret this as ‘I don’t want to wear a mask because I can’t breath’, which is not what I’m saying. I am simply saying… when I wear a mask (bearing in mind it’s one of the cheap fabric style ones), it’s harder to take a breath…. If I carry a backpack, I can’t walk as fast as if I don’t carry a backpack. How fast, depends on the weight, but will still be true regardless. For a mask, something that filters air has to slow the flow, which means more effort is required. How much, just depends on the material / filtering.
Seems like a blanket statement
As is the statement that it is an OHS issue and restricts breathing.
As someone with quite strong asthma, and have worked in places over the last 12 months that require masks on 8 hours a day, most people that say it causes them health issues are making it up to avoid wearing masks.
Yes I understand that some people have issues, but nowhere near the amount that claim they can't wear a mask because of those issues.
So do you have a breathing issue, or are you "fighting the good fight" for someone else that has breathing issues?
As is the statement that it is an OHS issue and restricts breathing.
Not really. OHS rules needs to accommodate for the lowest common denominator and err on the side of caution. If something is even dangerous for 1 person in 1,000, it's often labelled an OHS issue. That's why all the training videos you watch identify the most trivial things as hazards…5kg box on the ground that you need to lift? That's a hazard, someone really old or fragile could hurt themselves.
Small cable on the ground? Any reasonable person can step over it but there's always going to be 1 person who can't see it or is too uncoordinated to step over it.
Melted cheese on your sandwich…you get where this is going
Blanket rules which assume safety are not OK. Blanket rules which assume danger are a lot safer.
Yes I understand that some people have issues, but nowhere near the amount that claim they can't wear a mask because of those issues.
Are you a doctor? This sounds like a baseless claim.
Blanket rules which assume safety are not OK
Ok, so no helmets on bikes, seatbelts in cars. You're saying that if 1 person dies because they are wearing a seat belt, the other 999 shouldn't be forced to wear one. However, no it's not about assuming safety, it's assuming the risk is less than the risk of other things occuring. The point of the medical exceptions being OK, is that if the 999 wear the mask, it will also protect the 1 that is unable to (not the 200 that don't want to).
Are you a doctor? This sounds like a baseless claim
No, but as I said I have breathing issues and I can wear a mask for over 8 hours a day. I know people with less breathing issues than myself that complain just as you are.
I have no problem with medical exceptions, but for all the people I encounter that spout the "difficult breathing" or even "civil rights" lines, NONE have seen a doctor to get a medical exception. At most they have downloaded a form from a non-medical professional.So if it is so common that these people have medical conditions preventing them, why have they not seen a doctor about it in the last 18 months?
Ok, so no helmets on bikes, seatbelts in cars. You're saying that if 1 person dies because they are wearing a seat belt, the other 999 shouldn't be forced to wear one
If people repeatedly died solely from wearing a seatbelt, then maybe you'd have a point.
No, but as I said I have breathing issues and I can wear a mask for over 8 hours a day. I know people with less breathing issues than myself that complain just as you are.
Breathing issues aren't something you can really measure. Everyone breathes differently and everyone has different tolerance levels of restriction. Some people an adjust and adapt better than others.
Just because you have asthma (I do too), doesn't mean you're suddenly an expert on how other people breathe.
So if it is so common that these people have medical conditions preventing them, why have they not seen a doctor about it in the last 18 months?
Because they don't need one, in NSW at least.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/rules/face-mask-rules
You do not need documentary evidence stating that you are exempted from wearing a face mask under the public health order.
Strange how so many mask advocates and sudden legal experts don't even know the rules. Don't listen to everything the TV says.
If people repeatedly died solely from wearing a seatbelt, then maybe you'd have a point.
So how many people have died due to breathing difficulty caused by mask wearing? I'd imagine not many. So maybe you don't have a point…
Breathing issues aren't something you can really measure. Everyone breathes differently and everyone has different tolerance levels of restriction. Some people an adjust and adapt better than others.
If wearing a mask actually impacts your health, you'd be able to get one of those exemptions that you don't need anyway.
If people repeatedly died solely from wearing a seatbelt, then maybe you'd have a point.
If people repeatedly died solely from wearing MASK, then maybe you'd have a point.
You do not need documentary evidence stating that you are exempted from wearing a face mask under the public health order.
Not required by the public health order, that doesn't mean private enterprises aren't allowed to ask for or require one on entering their property.
Are you a doctor?
Are you a doctor? If not stop giving your advice on the covid response and mask wearing.
Seems like a blanket statement. Everyone breathes differently and has a different level of airway capacity.
Yes and it seems the mouth breathers are the one with issues.
Fogs up your glasses though
move it away from your nose bridge the glasses
Just say No
Mask sweats :) I'm not against mask wearing - but there are undesirable side-effects
And when you chew gum the mint vapors hit you right in the eyes
If you tape the top of your mask it helps.
My pharmacist friend works at a hospital and developed a partially collapsed lung and very low oxygen saturation (80%) as a result of wearing a mask all day at work with no deep breaths. They found out because he passed out at work. I'd say that's not misconceived at all.
as a result of wearing a mask all day at work with no deep breaths
The medical report into their death stated this was due to wearing a surgical mask?
Or is this a case of correlation /= causation
He didn't die, he got a good long time with high purity oxygen and now has a doctor written exception against wearing a mask in the hospital that otherwise requires masks being worn. The doctor believes that the mask caused the respiratory issues, so I'll defer to his judgement.
@mccarthyp64: Apologies read 'passed out' as passed
Still, that would be the 0.001% kind of example if medically prescribed, for not wearing a mask.
Not the blanket statement the op makes.@cydia9k: If it were my exception, I'd post it just to shut people up but it's not my medical history to share.
@mccarthyp64: It's irrelevant, anecdotal recounts are less than useless when discussing matters for which we have empirical evidence to draw conclusions from.
@mccarthyp64: so you have one case of someone having great difficulty using masks - what about the hundreds of other people you know? Any more collapsed lungs?
Pneumothoraces aren't caused by masks, just being a tall young man can do that. Wearing a mask might hide the symptoms a little though.
developed a partially collapsed lung and very low oxygen saturation (80%) as a result of wearing a mask
I doubt this is not what the doctor said or intended. If it was "developed a partially collapsed lung." "Very low oxygen saturation (80%) as a result of wearing a mask." then it makes more sense. I don't see the link between wearing a mask and collapsed mask alone, likely other conditions were involved.
ermm you should know better than directly correlate that persons health condition to wearing a mask without knowing the person and his health history (not saying that it could not be true, but it is extraordinarily unlikely. Your body has many ways to compensate and restore homeostasis. It sounds to me he experienced a collapse lung for whatever reason and the mask was not related to it.
P.s I work in a hospital and we all have been wearing masks for the last year. no issues.
As far as evidence, here you go.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7904135/
"The risk of pathologic gas exchange impairment with cloth masks and surgical masks is near-zero in the general adult population."
Oxygen sats 80% cough bs.
How long were they admitted to the resp ward for?
If you mean pneumothorax, then get someone to explain how this happens.
If by collapse you mean atelectasis, I call
Edit. Must be 80% sats caused by a ruptured bullous area due to your friend being a massive chain smoking person with extremely severe emphysema
So the left basal atelectasis was confirmed by a CT scan, he's smoked 4 cigarettes in his life.
Masks are fine for healthy people. People with recent rib injuries should not shallow breathe.
@mccarthyp64: There is no way that sats dropped to 80% with some left basal atelectasis.
80% is dangerously low.
Atelectasis not seen on a cxr is a bit meh.
If sats are really low then I would bet a lot that there is other pathology and not atelectasis.
Eg pe / pneumonia etc
You're spreading misinformation.
As people have pointed out below, correlation =/= causation.
Spontaneous pneumothroacies aren't anything new. His desaturation would NOT have been as a result of the mask, it would have been as a result of a ventilation perfusion mismatch secondary to the pneumothoracies. NOT the other way around.
Edit: just saw it was atelectasis… lol… im not even gonna bother, what mdavant said is 100% right.
I believe it is misconceived that it restricts breathing
Melbourne based too. I had that problem initially, found it hard to breath / get puffed out when they first mandated it.
But like most things, the body adapts. Now it's no difference wearing a mask or not.
Also keeps my face warm during winter so I like it.If this is the first time they've had mandatory masks in NSW, I understand why they're saying it's hard to breath.
NSW has had mandatory masks multiple times before.
The problem is that you walk around the shops etc and see so many people not wearing them, and these people are well.
The enforcement is non existent. Fines should be handed out to these buffoons
(this would be an OHS concern as masks aren't designed for long term use and they restrict breathing).
Doctors and nurses don't exist apparently.
I had a chuckle at this 'line by Karen' type thinking too.
Cause all surgeries are done in the blink of an eye (I guess they are if you're the patient).
Surgeries don't usually take 8 hours, and when they do, surgeons would have their masks replaced a few times over their breaks.
Cause there's heaps of breaks when someone has their chest cracked open for a 6 way bypass.
You can always go outside for a walk around the block without the mask, not really 8 hours straight.
@Brian McGee: Why are you comparing extreme instances of surgery, which involves extremely close contact and dealing with bodily fluids, to 600 (uninfected) people walking around an office?
@SlavOz: Why would wearing masks no longer be an OHS concern when they’re being worn by doctors and nurses?
And they’re not extreme circumstances. Long surgeries happen all the time.
@jjjaar: Because doctors are nurses are dealing with hazardous materials and bodily fluids on a constant basis. The benefit of protecting against that outweighs the OHS risk of suppressed breathing.
Context matters. A cable running along a walkway in an office is an OHS breach yet out on a construction site there will be hundreds of of large boulders or pegs scattered about and it's not an OHS concern.
Context.
@SlavOz: Alright, here's some 'context' for you - burqa face coverings - are they something that's not designed to be worn all day, and cause breathing problems? Should those be an OHS office/suppressed breathing thing as well? Do countries that have half their population regularly wearing masks and face coverings have higher breathing issues?
Drop some stats on us about all the breathing problems that masks actually cause, or is it yet another case study from the SlavOz 'here's a picture of wot i rekkon from inside my brane' University?
Alright, here's some 'context' for you - burqa face coverings - are they something that's not designed to be worn all day, and cause breathing problems?
Given the terrible social outcomes experienced by women in countries where the burqa is compulsory, this is a pretty strange point to make. Women in Iraq would kill for the right to not have to wear it. The reason for that? God knows why, these countries don't really let women express themselves or voice their concerns.
Maybe you could learn something from all of that. And maybe also that there are rules around wearing a burqa in certain situations.
Drop some stats on us about all the breathing problems that masks actually cause
I didn't say they cause breathing problems,I said they make it hard to breathe, in my own experience and those I've heard of. If you don't agree there's no need to get your panties tangled. If other people not wearing masks really irks you then go buy 2 masks ans put them both on to compensate for me not wearing one.
Thanks for carrying my load <3
@SlavOz: I'll do you one better, I'll wear two seatbelts so now you can wear none while you rev your Mustang over 4000 ;)
Because doctors are nurses are dealing with hazardous materials and bodily fluids on a constant basis.
Do you realise those medical masks are mostly to stop the patients getting infected, not the doctors and nurses?
@SlavOz: The masks doctors and nurses wear in theatre are not to protect themselves so much as the patient. It’s to stop the patient’s open wounds becoming septic.
@SlavOz: You were talking about 8 hours wearing a mask is a 'struggle'. You also mentioned surgeons get breaks from wearing them (general statement) but i brought up a situation where it is not feasible. I also said you could take a break whenever you like in an office to go downstairs and walk around the block, suck a ciggie or go al fresco in the carbon monoxide valleys in the city.
I never mentioned bodily fluids and that wasnt the intent, cause surgeons have face shields to protect from splatter, though they still must wear masks.
I wonder if many new parents are calling their kids Karen these days, surely got to be an unpopular name now.
Been WFH mostly since last year in Sydney. I'd pop in the office usually once a week. Even then, it's kinda pointless in my case as my actual team is based in Melbourne and the people I sit near don't care that I exist unless there is something on.
But with the recent announcement, I expect to be WFH for at least the next 2 weeks :)
I save 3 hours commute every day since working from home.
I bet you regret not being in Melbourne; I've had that saving for about 15 months.
you must live in south west sydney ghetto
Not everyone can live in the plush paradise that is north shore like you mate
it piss
Been WFH since March 2020, we have had the option of going into the office at times this year, but no pressure to actually attend. We can take whatever we want home from the office to setup our home office space.
I have enjoyed the 30-40 min extra sleep and not having to drive to work/spend on fuel.
WFH since Tuesday, 17 March 2020.
One day a week in the office in Nov-Dec'20, (Nthn Sydney) then again from March-June. WFH full time again this week until further notice.
WFH since March 2020, told to go back to the office more (two days a week) beginning of June this year onwards, now WFH again until further notice.
(this would be an OHS concern as masks aren't designed for long term use and they restrict breathing).
One of my relatives is a doctor in a hospital and wears a mask 10+ hours a day. They are alive and healthy.
If you don't want to wear a mask, then just say so and own it. Don't make up BS excuses.
Great, one of my relatives owns 3 homes and runs his own business. He is doing fine and has never needed welfare, which must mean that human beings can survive without welfare therefore we should abolish it.
Because everyone knows that something which works for 1 person must work for all 7 billion of us.
Hundreds of thousands doctors, nurses and others have been wearing masks for hours on end for decades, long before covid. Some of the fittest people I know - surgery tends to attract those type of people. They do it so they can help others without exposing their patients to pathogens, into their open wounds/bodies. Be more like a surgeon or scrub nurse, they are excellent humans.
If there’s some medical reason you can’t wear a mask, no worries, there are already provisions for that, just like welfare for those who can’t work.
As I said, if you don't want to wear a mask, then be a man and say you don't want to wear a mask because it makes you look dumb or because it's uncomfortable or whatever. Don't be a coward and hide behind "OHS concern" to take the burden off yourself for your own opinions/decisions.
As I said, if you don't want to wear a mask, then be a man and say you don't want to wear a mask because it makes you look dumb or because it's uncomfortable or whatever.
Mate, we all know that excuse wouldn't fly either so stop trying to pretend there's a moral high ground here. You just want to shame anyone who isn't complying with the same dress code as you because it threatens your sense of belonging.
It's not a bullshit excuse - virtually every authority on the matter has identified situations where masks can be dangerous. Yes they're rare but safety rules needed to err on the side of caution, that's why you often see even the most trivial things flagged as an OHS issue.
Mate, we all know that excuse wouldn't fly either so stop trying to pretend there's a moral high ground here.
I'm not. If you don't like wearing a mask, then just say so.
You just want to shame anyone who isn't complying with the same dress code as you because it threatens your sense of belonging.
Wrong. In fact, I actually do think that masks in the office are generally unnecessary. Offices are well-ventilated, are cleaned regularly and the risks of an outbreak are very small. The difference is that I will just state what I think, not try to pretend that wearing a mask is an "OHS issue".
I'm not shaming you. If you don't like to wear a mask, just say so. I feel sorry for you more than anything.
It's not a bullshit excuse - virtually every authority on the matter has identified situations where masks can be dangerous. Yes they're rare but safety rules needed to err on the side of caution, that's why you often see even the most trivial things flagged as an OHS issue.
I don't understand this - it just strikes me as odd that all of a sudden everyone's so concerned about whether masks are safe. I followed up with two friends - one is a tradie and the other is a doctor who both wear masks regularly as part of their employment. They both said they have never heard of masks being raised as an OHS issue.
Although I don't get to work from home since critical work still have to be done on site, I appreciate the companies that does give their staff the option to WFH. Traffic and public transport in Sydney has been a lot better with less people crowding the city. Also noticed a fair few cafes and restaurants have lowered their prices to accommodate fewer customers which is nice.
"…(this would be an OHS concern as masks aren't designed for long term use and they restrict breathing)…"
What horseshit is this?
I guess a paper cut would be a traumatic event and 000 would need to be called.
What horseshit is this?
https://news.sanfordhealth.org/coronavirus-disease-2019-covi…
CDC warns against placing masks on children younger than 2, or on anyone who has trouble breathing or cannot remove the mask without assistance.
They have to put warnings. US is very litigious. Nothing to do with breathing restriction.
CDC warns against placing masks on children younger than 2,
One would assume you're slightly more able to avoid chocking hazards than a 2 year old.
I've been wearing a mask in Vic for between 8 and 12 hours a day during the required restrictions. There's no change to my breathing, none of my staff have complained about breathing. If it hinders your breathing get an exemption from a GP.
In general the only customers I've had complain about it being hard to breathe with a mask are the same customers that complain about everything else.
CDC warns against placing masks on children younger than 2, or on anyone who has trouble breathing or cannot remove the mask without assistance.
Great - let's ban plastic bags and batteries too. Last I checked it wasn't recommended we give them to children either.
Who said anything about banning? I don't want masks banned, I'm just saying it makes no sense to force people to consecrate indoors and wear a mask. If it's not safe to meet up, the safest solution is to work remotely. Forcing people to come in to work but mitigate the risk by wearing a mask is like countering speeding by wearing a seatbelt. Why not just not speed at all?
And if the workplace was forcing people to carry around batteries or plastic bags all day, yeah I'd be pretty annoyed at that too.
I'm just saying it makes no sense to force people to consecrate indoors and wear a mask. If it's not safe to meet up, the safest solution is to work remotely.
Except that's what everyone's been doing for the past 15 months, or did I miss something?
Sydney based; my organization has opted to tell people to WFH if they can today. My team made the decision to WFH last week. I’ve been in the office since around October last year or something actually. Australian company, hard on for people to go into the office, fairly certain only because they signed a big lease a couple of years ago, they make it out like they care about your health but would prefer you go into the office during a pandemic.
Back to WFH at least for the next few days, will see what happens after that. I was going to the office 2 days a week since before Christmas.
Also, waiting for spackbase's comment…
He's really been hitting the "sexist misogynist" angle a lot recently. My money says we'll be seeing some variation of that again, probably around how my workplace is run by females and the only reason I'm against the mask mandate is some deep rooted hatred for women and puppies.
I don't know, I'm just babbling, which I imagine is how he comes to most of his responses.
Also how you come up with most of your topics?
I wouldn’t be so quick to judge if you’ve made one post. I rarely post due to the backlash on here if you don’t word it a certain way!
@bobwokeup: I've done more than one, the responses I got from everyone were fantastic and supportive. The forum assisted me in solving a rather large issue. I then requested it be removed as it impacted another ozbargain member.
What makes you think Spackbase is interested in you?
After the announcement yesterday that masks are compulsory in all indoor places
Welcome to 2020……
WFH is very sensible where viable. No such arrangements in QLD atm. Masks are not inherently an OHS issue - annoying, but not dangerous. Regardless WFH is better where possible since masks can’t 100% stop the spread of COVID 19, only reduce the risk. Enjoy your WFH.
QLD here, working for a large Australian company, and I've been WFH full time Mar 2020 to Nov 2020 and then going to the office one day per week since then.
Oh that’s great. I’m also WFH one day per week but not because of covid, I used wfh a fair bit before COVID too. Generally speaking my organisation is encouraging people to work as they would have pre-COVID.
A lot of people been WFH since to start of Q2 last year.
Only thing is a harder separation of home and work time, but then you get to your laundry during the day :D
The main reason I don't want to wear a mask all day is because it means I would have to smell my own stinky breath! 😔
you should get an activated carbon mask, I haven't tried.
Your employer has a legal obligation to enforce the public health orders.
You also have a legal obligation to abide by them.
The whole masks aren’t designed to be worn for long times and they restrict breathing is just an excuse.
Do your bit and mask up.
The longer it takes for people to be compliant, the quicker covid will spread and the longer these restrictions will be in place.
You also have a legal obligation to abide by them
You don't need to wear a mask if you don't want to, in NSW at least.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/rules/face-mask-rules
Documentary evidence to support not wearing a mask
You do not need documentary evidence stating that you are exempted from wearing a face mask under the public health order.
Regulatory officers are focussed on compliance rather than enforcement.
Selective quoting. Here's the rest of it:
If you are stopped by a regulatory officer in a setting where masks are mandatory, they will ask you to confirm the lawful reason you are not wearing a face mask.
Officers will only issue penalty notices if you clearly refuse to wear a mask without a lawful reason.
If you have a condition that prevents you from wearing a mask, you may wish to ask your registered health practitioner or disability care provider to issue a letter confirming this. However, this is not a requirement under the public health order.
In other circumstances, if you are eating or drinking, or there is an emergency, you will not be expected to continue wearing a mask.
Don't think 'because I don't wanna wear a mask' is a lawful reason.
Don't think 'because I don't wanna wear a mask' is a lawful reason.
It is. They just want to avoid social outrage by the mask cheerleaders by putting in a disclaimer that says the reason you give must be reasonable.
You don't have to wear a mask if you don't want to, as long as you recite a lawful reason when asked. Based on the way the rules are written, a lawful reason can really be anything. You can simply say that you are exempt for medical reasons and move on. Enforcers don't have the right to inquire about your medical history in public.
Childrens masks in Florida tested after one days use.
The lab used a method called proteomics to extract proteins from the masks and sequence them. The analysis detected the following 11 alarmingly dangerous pathogens on the masks:
Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumonia)
Mycobacterium tuberculosis (tuberculosis)
Neisseria meningitidis (meningitis, sepsis)
Acanthamoeba polyphaga (keratitis and granulomatous amebic encephalitis)
Acinetobacter baumanni (pneumonia, bloodstream infections, meningitis, UTIs — resistant to antibiotics)
Escherichia coli (food poisoning)
Borrelia burgdorferi (causes Lyme disease)
Corynebacterium diphtheriae (diphtheria)
Legionella pneumophila (Legionnaires’ disease)
Staphylococcus pyogenes serotype M3 (severe infections — high morbidity rates)
Staphylococcus aureus (meningitis, sepsis)
“Half of the masks were contaminated with one or more strains of pneumonia-causing bacteria,” according to the release. “One-third were contaminated with one or more strains of meningitis-causing bacteria. One-third were contaminated with dangerous, antibiotic-resistant bacterial pathogens. In addition, less dangerous pathogens were identified, including pathogens that can cause fever, ulcers, acne, yeast infections, strep throat, periodontal disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and more.”For a control, the parents submitted a T-shirt worn by one of the children at school and unworn masks. No pathogens were found on the controls
https://www.globalresearch.ca/group-florida-parents-cultured…
Imagine where those proteins would have went if people weren’t wearing masks…..
People haven't been wearing masks for centuries and we never saw any major problems.
I swear people think life just didn't exist before COVID.
“The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) is an independent research and media organization” - lol ‘independent research’ and ‘media’ doesn’t sound like a dodgy combination at all.
Regardless of the quality of the study, what was the clinical outcome for those mask wearers? If they were all fine, where’s the problem?
I’m not saying masks are ideal, especially for young children and certainly think avoiding contact with others, WFH, etc is better - but masks where getting close to others can’t be avoided seems like a good idea. This study just seems to be fear mongering unnecessarily. Unfortunately with this delta strain it’s seems neither masks or social distancing are enough.
Sounds about righ
11 alarmingly dangerous pathogens
Are not the words proper researcher would use.
Lot of normal environmental bacteria there (assuming this even happened because they've published a grand total of zero supportive data to go along with that), although the TB was an interesting one - I suspect the mask wearer is walking around in the community and may need a diagnosis. Good thing they were wearing a mask.
Michel Chossudovsky is a Canadian economist, author and conspiracy theorist. He is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Ottawa and the president and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization, which runs the website globalresearch.ca and publishes conspiracy theories. Wikipedia
lel. Mods pls delete for speading misinformation.
I am in Sydney working for a Fed Govt Dept. We have option to work in office with mask but preferred mngt option is to wfh.
Sydney is the centre of the universe
Well everywhere else is just camping out.
stopped my 2 toddler from going to child care so i cant wfh due to too much distraction. good thing is the office is pretty much empty, only 3 ppl on each corner of the building and all of us are introverts
So… now your 2 toddlers just roam around at home while you're in your empty office with a few other introverts?!?!?
Yes !, no managers with youtube on full screen on 1 of the screen hahahaha
Sorry… where are your toddlers?????
Always been WFH since 2020, I hate it. But now I get to work at work at least 3 days a week.
Still working from the office (Sydney). As the covid numbers are very low and the infected people are known and tracked it's not comparable to the peak times last year, at least not at this point. So no major reason to work from home. Anyone who is uncomfortable can work from home if they want, management allows the staff to decide what suits them best and taking into account current Govt restrictions and recommendations.
Everyone in the office is wearing a mask since Wed afternoon as per Govt policy, everyone had their own mask. Our company can supply one if need be. Everyone does the right thing and social distances at more than the required distance. Hand sanitizer stations are all over the office mounted a key locations on the walls near all doors and kitchen areas as well as on desks about every 5 metres.
Our office has about 400 people over 3 floors and most people come to work between 2-5 days a week since the start of this year. Last year during the peak times the company mandated everyone to work from home except for critical staff needed on site.
No one at my office has contracted covid since the pandemic began.
" OHS concern as masks aren't designed for long term use and they restrict breathing"
you are a potato brain.
In the office 5 days a week. Melbourne CBD.
What company is it so I can avoid?
WFH 3 days and two days at office.. However we received and email to WFH 100% this week and next week.
There is no way I would sit in an office all day wearing a mask.
Work from home is the only option.
I work in Syd CBD and was partly office and partly WFH until early this week. Full WFH starting this Monday until further notice now.
Actually had a close call this week as a place I visit sometimes during work / work hours (was there last week) appeared on the NSW health contacts list. Luckily I didn't visit at the stated time and date.
I think it's better to WFH fully atm.
Been working from home as of 13th March 2020, moved companies started new roles and working with new teams. Only from April have i started to go back to the office maybe once a week. Now with this all happening we are now told dont go to the office until further again. So will be interesting how long this time.
If you have a good enough home office setup and all necessary access for your laptop into work i dont have any issues with this current situation its business as usual for me.
Melbourne based - WFH 3-4 days a week but flexible - meaning can WFH full week if wished.
Been WFH since March last year and my company has defaulted to the practice, which in a way is good because it's the only saving grace my job has now.
Another Melburnian here. Basically never went back and have essentially been WFH since March last year. Don't actually see us going back…
What, people have gone back to the office? When did that happen?
masks aren't designed for long term use and they restrict breathing
Someone better inform doctors, nurses, tradies and factory workers that have been using them everyday for the past ~100 years.
plus miners and farmers who wear respirators or P2 grade masks to stay safe from dust and fumes.
admittedly only recently in history as we have only just realised how dangerous chemical fumes and silica dust is
That's just another person without an education. Science already tells us that when oxygen is restricted or increased, our body will adjust.
Yes
I still can't understand why corporate honchos think its appropriate to expect staff to give up flexibility through WFH in favor of increased company expenses, neckbreathing, mouth breathing, constant un-productive banter and poor quality performance in the office.
Pencil-necked micromanagers want to justify their existence.
lmao true
Haven’t been to an office since Jan 2020 thankfully. Recently composted some of the old suits.
I work in employment services (it) and unlikely to ever return to an office thankfully. Suspect many in the same boat?
I live in the city of sydney, my employer still forcing me to come to work in the office as we are "essential services"
I'm an accountant in the "essential Services" industry
That's dodgy
yes but still legal
It’s actually not.
Have a read over the latest public health order.
It states you “must” work from home if it is reasonably practicable to do so.
My gyno friend works at the orifice.
Again? Try the third time here in vic. I've been working from for weeks
If this was in the 70's or 80's our mothers would have sent us around to catch it and build immunity to the stupid thing. What has happened to this world were people cant wear a mask because it could hurt their lungs feelings !!!!
The WFH novelty has worn off, and I'm very much enjoying working onsite.
However, unlike pre pandemic arrangements, when I do need to work from home, it's totally acceptable noe (previously, WFH was frowned upon)
Working
F*^king
Hard?Yup
Brisbane based, been WFH since Feb 20. Resumed one day per fortnight in the office last November but that's just been canned for the next little while at least.
I'm outta downvotes! Whew!!!
As someone who was working for an employer who let go employees or forced to resign (there was A LOT) those that refused to give up WFH… suck shit haha - who are they gonna hire that's left in Sydney.
Which company so I can avoid?
A Big Telecom starting with O.
Its weird that the O and the Big T have two different approaches to remote working.
Interesting attitude given that most people are more productive from home.
source on altered productivity please…
It's Optarse, what'd ya expect?
I miss the Macquarie Park campus though, I thought it was fairly awesome. The parking arrangement is farked when I was there.
Sydney here
Been working from home since March 2020, not been to the city since.
Beats 3-4 hours a day messing around with travelling, good to finish work and already be at home, not having to worry about catching an overcrowded train standing with no aircon :)
Loving life!
(Work in IT)
Perth.
Been back full time in the office (my choice) for 10 or so months now
Never really went back. We've agreed to go in once a fortnight and even that hasn't happened every time. Been in I think 3 days since the whole thing started.
More than happy working from home. The days I have gone in I get nothing done because it's more of a catch up.
WFH in Sydney since March 13, 2020. Have spent a handful of days in the office this year, but not recently. Large company, currently telling us all to work from home. We're all so good at it now; doesn't feel like it's ever going back to the old normal.
What industry? I would love to WFH permanently
My team of editors runs a broadast media company's websites. It helps that the main tool for running a website is a web browser (but logged in as the editor of the site, and other web-based tools). We're also using video and photo editing software, plus we have a VPN into the company's servers for access to internal content. And Slack, Jira, Confluence, Zoom, Webex, Microsoft Teams, OMG why can't everyone agree on one videoconferencing platform? :) The only people who really need to be in the office every day are the ones working on actual broadcast (on microphone/camera or behind the scenes).
We got the verbal on Wednesday for everyone to be back in office - previous agreements scrapped..
Thursday/ Friday the carpark was empty apart from sucker here and 1 angry manager.Then the email went out from Adolf, who seems to have a massive chip on his shoulder for people WFH.. Maybe he feels lonely sitting in his office with nobody to boss around - who knows. But all the work has been getting done, nothing is outstanding, the only lemon is our dud sales team.
But now its 4 days in office 1 at home = with justification, also with written approval from the MD, HR, your manager, probably also the bloke in the lunch shop will need to approve it too, just to make sure nobody qualifies to work 2 days from home….
Sydney CBD here. Our company was ahead of the game and have been "Remote working" since start of the week. We were back on board 5 days a week for the last 6 months with the policy of "flexible work arrangements". So mix of remote work and office work.
The mask indoors requirement tipped it to full remote work. No one including myself would prefer to work 10 hours in the office with a mask on.
The down side is productivity is a mixed bag. As much as I have faith in my team, workflow Managed and monitored via SM systems. The over all business has seen a reduction in productively due to loss of the synergy or that face to face engagement. Information from Network and cloud platforms systems shows sporadic "non-work related" activities being accessed more frequently with remote working. And less coherent times of work during "core" business hours. Compare this with data from the last 6 months back in the office the evidence is clear.
yeah wfh with monitoring is pretty poor , without monitoring its essentially a joke.
Sydney, financial services head office and were told not to come in from last Sunday 20/6 for the week. Was extended on Wednesday from memory. Wife who works for different financial services company head office were only told on Friday not to come in. I suggested she didn't go in during the week and she didnt otherwise i believe she would now be in lock down.
Anyway, we are all in lockdown now so yay (not).
Melbourne, have spent maybe 5 days in the office since March last year.
Next week I go back to 3 days in the office a week and I’m kinda ok with it. Started a new job in feb, and have been struggling a bit first with getting up the speed with the project I was on, and now I’m training people and it’s a bit of a nightmare.
Teams meetings have gotten out of control, because everyone sets a meeting with everyone over everything. Email volume is absurd and hard to ignore because the very urgent is mixed up in the waste of time stuff. Some people hate calling, others love it, and if I have to say “can you share your screen so I can see it?” again I’ll scream.
Also lol at this turning into OPs anti mask bullshit. I have asthma, when the bushfires were happening I was so glad to be able to wear a mask in the office all day. Helped my breathing so much. I also have to monitor my blood oxygen and I can safely say wearing a mask for 8 hours a day does absolutely nothing to blood oxygen levels.
It’s uncomfortable but like all things if you suck it up and just so it you get used to it quickly.
my job allows me to WFH 4 days a week 1 at the office.. now I'll have to do 5 :(
Whole of Sydney is lockdown now
Super…..guess I'd better get my mask ready for next week in the office
So we’ve had dictator dan for Victoria’s lockdown. What’s going to be gladys’ nickname?
edit: never mind
She's a miracle worker for turning tax dollars into nothing….
One of Morrison's favoured acolytes, and a shared miracle - source
'Morrison’s Horizon Church is part of the broader Pentecostal movement that emerged in the United States in the early 20th century. That miracles happen is a central tenet of Pentecostalism. As a religion, it sees itself as re-creating the gifts of the Spirit experienced by the earliest Christian worshippers. Along with the working of miracles, these included speaking in tongues and healings. They remain central features of Pentecostal belief and worship today.'
Glad the (co)vidfailure
Gulag Gladys
Not that Murdoch rags will have anything to say about "Unlucky in love" Berejiklian mind you.
Gestapo Gladys
And yes (profanity) the Murdoch rags, just because the seppos have lost their minds doesn't mean we have to follow them and make a (profanity) virus a political thing
obligatory why would Dan Andrews do this
anything bad you mean.
The miracle gladys has performed to spread the latest variant across Australia deserves adding to her other miracles of turning taxpayer money into nothing.
Lockdown now in WA… was looking forward to origin tonight but after NSW banned the kid replacing the other kid well its not much of a contest in all probability now …..so thanks for that as well NSW - won't bother watching at all.
Dumb big nose kent?
Cannot work from home.
I'm a baker. My job is extremely physical and 110% go go go for 8 hours straight and I work in a room that's 40+ degrees all day. I have to wear a mask the whole time. I don't mind it. Neither do the other bakers I work with. By wearing the masks we reduce each others risk of making each other sick. I wish people would think about the greater good than their own personal inconvenience for once. If we can do it for 8+ hours straight in a sweatshop it cant be that bad.
City council really need to incentify corporate work forces to come back to city, at least on alternate days or else I can't see any cbd recover post covid. We might just starting to see ghost city soon..
It's hard to imagine any of Australias CBDs going back to the way it was. Not just work from home, but I see them decentralising and moving businesses into outer suburburban hubs. Not sure about other cities, but I think Brisbane was already heading that way. I think Parramatta is being focused on as a business hub.
My only thought to counter this is converting offices into living spaces. Retail, restaurants, bars, and entertainment underneath and residential above. An influx in availability plus the businesses moving away, could make the CBD more affordable (not holding my breath though).
Yea, the other option is to encourage more residents in cbd. But I personally find Perth would struggle at this moment, without business tenants.
If the state gov waive stamp duty, and offer 20% discount off purchase price and discounted council rate, would definitely think about relocating to cbd.
Nah, because COVID makes sure to not infect anyone in the construction industry, so government allows us to keep working in our worksites.
Pretty smart cookie that COVID virus is, I tell ya what!Similar to Homr - Sydney based & working in a privately owned company in an "essential services" industry but I'm a spreadsheet monkey. Technically, precious few of us "need" to be there - with the right tools, preparation and culture regarding communication, most could WFH either partly or in full.
The business owner views the informal communication of the office as "the way our business works" and paints working from home as a conspiracy theory of widespread bludging, and is convinced that office closure would literally result in the death of the business, so is doing everything in their power to keep us coming in.
Waiting to hear from regarding today's developments but the terminology used in announcing the stay-at-home orders will probably be loose enough to satisfy them. They'll testify to all and sundry that every employee is "essential", regardless of role, to satisfy the criteria to keep us coming to the office if they need to.
Not sure what I can do about it tbh.
Your business owner is a prick
Although I worked in a public listed company, one of my site that I looked after is a private owner so I had to comply his wishes, which was working on site. BS really
It's like working for Microsoft in the 90s or at the Googleplex in the 00s; great pay and lots of perks, and they like to think they own you.
I think the issue is that topline managers have become accustomed to doing nothing but watching employees and making picky criticisms about productivity (people are leaving at 4.55pm, this guy took an extra 2 minutes for lunch, too much chatter among deskmates etc). Without this, their role is surprisingly dead and they feel threatened. They fear the company will realise they are useless or get them to do some actual real work, can't have that.
My stupid workplace has confirmation bias and uses stats to support how good it is to come to work. They keep using operations as an excuse, if they had to come in every day, you can too (they operate machinery). But 90% of us, have a laptop, can do all work at home. They write in an email, it's so good to catch up, talk, etc but bosses yell at you if you talk and more than half of the people are missing.
They're such dicks that they don't even come in LOL, and the 10 people that are in there, are in a cubical, that has half a metre walls surrounding them.
If you guys think lockdown is bad, well, what the hell was the difference before?
The system sucks because you have these older bosses who can't take the penis out of their ass and think they own you.
sounds like we worth for the same company
Older people can't fathom change and its sad.
You should send stats stating working from home is damn good for the business and the employees.
And yet giants like Twitter and so on have implemented working from home permanently as they have stats to prove that the business is growing whether they are in the office or not.
all the stats show productivity falls massively in the majority of business's when wfh.
"all" stats?
Source?
@[Deactivated]: I can vouch for "my" corporations stats of the last 12 months. Data is there supporting a fall in productivity mainly due to a number of indicators. The 2 top being.
-1. Different network traffic patterns in office vs flexible - remote working VPN.
- In office - majority of network traffic to line of business applications.
- Out of office remote work - signification majority of network traffic to NON - line of business applications. Some down right triggering banned categories.
-2. Slippage in synergy - De-sync of working hours
- In office - availability Business hours
- Out of office remote work - Logs from system(s) show sporadic activity during non business-hours. Causing slippages of projects / critical paths and co-ordinated teamwork. e.g. Person chooses to work 11am - 8pm. Same "length" of hours but hours unavailable due to their choice of working.
@pegasusx: So the metric of performance you're using is "hours spent online"?
How are your outcomes? Quantity and/or quality?
What's management's role in all of this? Where are they? What are they doing to "manage" productivity? How are they "leading" their remote teams and boosting engagement?
Slippage in synergy
This I agree with. I guess it depends on the nature of work. A project/task with high interconnectedness needs more frequent structured touchpoints and heightened communication (not the point of overuse and ineffectiveness). More independent work can mean that "de-sync hours" work fine.
Not what I do. I have to complete jobs for top tier 1 clients on a daily basis. If I slack off, people will know about it in a few hours. If anything, I have completed more work because I don't have to commute for 3 hours. I also do more work because I don't have to stay late, I'm already at home and can go on the laptop in an instant in exchange for flexibility. So they're getting more out of me at no cost to my mental health.
Older people can't fathom change
Neither can insecure/fearful managers with control issues.
Funny enough, remote working requires a bigger role for management to step up and actually lead their teams.
i can't really work from home so i'll be going in…..until wednesday when i'm made redundant
p.s. i have a job interview on monday would that be classified as work related?
i suppose it depends on the goodwill of the cops if they pull me overAn interview should be fine as an excuse. However I'm surprised they haven't changed it to a video interview. I had one scheduled for Friday, but they postponed it as they were dealing with thier staff and the changing situation. It'll be a video one next week.
Yes been like this for over a year now tho.
We were supposed to enter a hybrid return to the office in September but that won’t happening now.
I work in a hospital I get rotated to work on infectious diseases ward. I been wearing a n95 mask for years and PPE gear that makes you sweat bullets. I change in\to surgical scrubs halfway through a shift.
You office workers toughen f up and grow up. Life and society doesn't revolve around you and how uncomfortable you feel sitting in a chair 8 hrs a day. Blue collar workers have tougher than me, working in back breaking work in Aussie summers also in heavier ppe gear than me.
In one.
Life and society doesn't revolve around you and how uncomfortable you feel sitting in a chair 8 hrs a day.
I hear this a lot. "Life doesn't revolve around you" seems to be the go-to line for anyone who doesn't follow the rules. These people come from a diverse range of areas, backgrounds, ethnicities, jobs, etc. So it begs the question, who does it revolve around then?
It seems like you're a proponent of enforcing harsh measures on the community…in order to keep the community safe…from the community.
You realise that society doesn't revolve around you and your demands either right?
"Life doesn't revolve around you" is a comment to address the importance of the group versus the importance of the individual. It's usually used to refer to someone who is being selfish or ignorant of other people.
Colour me surprised that you hear it a lot.
Also, that's not what "begs the question" means. It's when someone assumes a part of their argument is true and uses that as 'proof' of their argument [e.g. "given that masks are a OHS risk.."]
"Life doesn't revolve around you" is a comment to address the importance of the group versus the importance of the individual.
That sounds like a pretty radical path to mob mentality. Part of living in a free democracy is that it's supposed to protect the voice and rights of minorities. Yes - even ones who (brace yourself)…disagree with you.
Also, how many "individuals" need to lose their job and financial independence, be restricted from seeing their family, lose a family member without being able to say goodbye, be arrested, thrown in jail, or lose their rights until you start considering them a "community"?
that it's supposed to protect the voice and rights of minorities
being a covid denier or anti-mask'er does not make you a minority with rights than need protecting.
free democracy also means you're use of 'freedoms' shouldn't effect/impact others negatively also. Hence health orders during a pandemic, that while interfering with your freedom wishes to not wear a mask, are outweighed by the freedom of others that you should follow health orders and reduce their (and the communities) overall infection growth rate.
being a covid denier or anti-mask'er does not make you a minority with rights than need protecting.
lol, you literally have no idea how a democracy works. Maybe take a step back from the progressive dogma you hear from The Guardian and realise that being a minority is about more than just having the correct shade of skin colour, and practising tolerance and diversity extends to diversity of opinions too.
free democracy also means you're use of 'freedoms' shouldn't effect/impact others negatively also.
Wonder if you also think smokers, dangerous drivers, or abortion advocates don't deserve rights either. Why should they get to exercise their freedoms at the detriment of other people's lives/safety?
Maybe we should also mandate organ donation right? Why should somebody be allowed to practice bodily autonomy when they're already dead and there are other people who need their organs?
The right to ear pork and drink alcohol is considered pretty abhorrent to Muslims, maybe we should ban those too? Can't have other people's freedoms making someone else feel bad now can we!
@SlavOz: More cooked than Pete Evans.
I can't wait for you to go down the rabbit hole of 'sovereign citizenship'.
Wonder if you also think smokers, dangerous drivers, or abortion advocates don't deserve rights either. Why should they get to exercise their freedoms at the detriment of other people's lives/safety?
are you agreeing with me here?
Smokers are allowed to smoke, but there's a reason society has moved to no smoking in places like restaurants, public transport etc.. to remove/reduce its impact on others
Dangerous drivers get penalised, fined and loss of licence, to remove their right to drive and remove/reduce their impact on others.
Rest of your rant just goes even more unhinged I'm not sure how I can even relate it to the original argument though.
@SBOB: The difference between the 2 particular examples you responded to (while ignoring others) is that we place restrictions on them at the exact moment they are being performed.
Smokers can still take public transport or enter a hospital as long as they refrain from smoking. We don't out blanket restrictions on smokers just because they're smokers.
That's a whole lot different to telling everyone they must wear a mask at all times because they are perceived as a health threat by default.
That's a whole lot different to telling everyone they must wear a mask at all times because they are perceived as a health threat by default.
but you are free to not wear a mask in plenty of scenarios.
So the exact moment you are performing the task requiring you to wear a mask (i.e. interacting with the public) then the rule kicks in.
I'm sure if you refrained from breathing though, then the smoker example you give could also apply to mask wearing.You seem to continue trying to debate towards the same end goal, you're examples agree with my position.
So the exact moment you are performing the task requiring you to wear a mask (i.e. interacting with the public) then the rule kicks in.
You're missing the point. Smoking is a dangerous activity. Interacting with the public is not inherently dangerous.
There's always been a risk of danger when you go out in public. A street light or air conditioner could fall on your head, killing you instantly. Does that mean we should all be forced to walk around with helmets, or just ban street lights? No.
Maybe we can also tell women they need to cover up hide their body in public because the ever-present threat of perverts or rapists. Get real. If you're afraid of of air, don't go outside.
You're missing the point.
yep, definitely me that's misaligned with 'the point'.
Smoking is a dangerous activity.
to yourself. Also to others in an enclosed area, hence (as we come full circle) why it is restricted on the places its socially accepted to do so.
So while "Interacting with the public is not inherently dangerous.", during a pandemic the health orders to make people wear masks in socially enclosed/interacting areas are there to reduce the spread of a 'totally not inherently dangerous ' disease (just think of it as really really bad second hand smoke if that is easier for you to comprehend)
Man, you must have been amazing in debate club :/
Again, there are plenty of areas you're free to take all the breaths you want mask-less.
during a pandemic the health orders
This is what it comes down to. Interacting with the public isn't dangerous, yet the government has arbitrarily declared that it is.
Really, the fact that you can't see the point here is baffling. Something isn't dangerous just because the government said so. The government used to tell us that smoking was fine or that black people weren't equal entities.
In more particular words, they're pathogically full of shit. Placing blanket restrictions on people (which they themselves conveniently don't need to follow, hoo-ha) and trying to convince us that the default state of humans is infectious until proven otherwise is absurd. If I've done something wrong or present a proven health risk, I'll happily step into your Gestapo camp and wear a mask. But until then I'm not giving into the hysteria that my fellow humans are a biological hazard that should be treated like bacteria. It makes no sense on a moral or practical level.
You have 70 years on this earth and you're going to let some corporate beaurecrats high on self interests tell you how you must act, think, feel, and dress? LOL good luck with that.
Smokers can still take public transport or enter a hospital as long as they refrain from smoking. We don't out blanket restrictions on smokers
Can you see where your analogy breaks down?
Smokers, when they cease the action, cease to negatively and directly impact others (community) around them.
Disease-vectors, when they cease wearing a mask or taking precautions (due to ignorance and fear-driven conspiratorial-thinking), continue to potentially negatively and directly impact others (community) around them.
Why wait until a potential disease-vector becomes an actual (and infectious) disease-carrier? Prevention is better than cure. Don't you agree? Would you want to "cure" lung cancer, or prevent it?
@SlavOz: It's an awful long stretch between "You are acting selfish" and "It's time for all of society to suppress the rights and voices of the minority" so make sure you do some warm-up exercises first, maybe have some water as well.
Likewise this cooking up rhetoric about "how many of us need to be thrown in jail before.." like it's South Africa apartheid or Les Mis or whatever "I'm the real victim here" style fantasy you're cooking up in your head.
Take a step back, reread what was said and get some perspective. "Life doesn't revolve around you" is something that's said to a petulant child, it's not a sinister piece of propaganda for communism.
Its a shame that any mention of Covid bring outs the loonies. All those who worry about our freedom.
You know what , there is going to be an election coming soon , why don't you create a Anti Mask party and lets just actually see how you guys do !!! And if you do win , lets see how you run the country.
Like Boris Johnson found out , its easier to criticise from the opposition than to run the country.
Will be a nice battle between the no mask party and the rest of society's two-mask, double-jab, permanent lockdown, microchip party.
Bit of a confusing name though. Might as well just call it CCP lite.
Cool . Call it what you want.
Please let the Ozbargain community when you register your party !!!
Here is the link : https://www.aec.gov.au/Parties_and_Representatives/Party_Reg…
https://www.aec.gov.au/parties_and_representatives/party_reg…
I will call it The Blues, as a parody on the Greens.
Or Homecoming of The Young and Free.
Or The After Party.
I'll let you know.
@isthatallyougot: It's all people like him can do. Rant and rave online because no one will give them the time of day in the real world.
WFH permanently. (profanity) going to the office.
If I had my call I'd sack all the Wimps in the thread that find it difficult working in an office/ indoor with a mask !
Unbelievable !
Boss wants us going back where possible to have face to face meeting and do planning. Apparently more effective when Everyone is in the same room? Couldn’t give a stuff about socialising, so many casuals, contractors and part timers, hard enough keeping up with all the names, and now with remote working, I don’t even know what name goes with which face. Every fortnight is a farewell party and new hire. Gotta keep the middle management busy I guess.
Been working from home for the last year (Melbourne). But then we have a government that is good at stuffing up containment measures.