Lightning Deal ends in 4 hours!
14TB WD Elements drives on Amazon
Yeah i know, it's not the cheapest it's been, but it is the cheapest since early May according to CCC
For you shuckers out there, this may be a good deal, or at least an indication on the direction prices are going in.
CamelCamelCamel.
depends on your setup….i'm running unraid, so anytime i add a drive, it's already being backup* so long as the new drive is the same size or smaller than my parity drive.
*technically not a backup, but fulfills the same purpose that i'm trying to achieve from a backup
sorry, i am still new to RAID, but isnt it RAID 1 is a backup? mirroring the exact file?
@langitbiru: Yes. But if the device you are running said drives catch on fire. Raid 1 is not going to save your files. If both drive dies. yes less unlikely but still could happen. Same result. File unrecoverable.
@langitbiru: RAID only protects you from drive failure (if disk 1 dies, disk 2 is an exact copy). "better" RAIDs allow for more disk failures.
If you accidentally delete a file, overwrite a file, get ransomware (which encrypts your files), or as @xoom has already pointed out, if your box catches fire… your data is gone.
Doesn't matter if it's a two-disk RAID 1 or 50-disk RAID 9000, the data is gone. G.O.N.E. gone.
At a minimum - 3 copies. A working copy, a backup, and a third copy off-site (to allow for the aforementioned fire).
Some recommend the 3-2-1 rule: 3 copies, 2 different media formats, 1 off-site.
Some recommend 3-2-1-1-0 rule: same 3-2-1 (3 copies, 2 different media formats, 1 off-site), plus 1 air-gapped (to prevent hacking, ransomware, etc), and all with 0 errors.
The 0 errors I think it's especially important - what's the point of putting good backup principles in place only to discover that something was wrong with it (misconfiguration, etc); which you usually only discover when you're trying to recover something with that backup.
Your purpose in a backup is redundancy but not a backup?
That's… Unusual.
Redundancy is to avoid downtime.
Backup is keeping multiple copies (ideally with the 3-2-1 model. 3 copies of your data, 2 backups, 1 of the backups offsite) in case of failure of the storage mechanism. Be it the RAID array or a physical failure.
RAID isn't a backup. Backups are independent of the live data.
It's not unusual, many people want redundancy but don't have the funds to setup a complete offsite mirror backup….
in my specific case….having a parity drive costs ~$300 (based on when i bought that drive).
Whilst having a whole mirrored of-site backup would cost me in excess of $3000…..and that's not including any ongoing costs
The greater majority of what i have on my server can be "re-acquired", except it will take a while….for the very small number of ACTUALLY important files i have (probably under 5gb worth), i just keep it on various free cloud services and seperate usb backups.
What is unusual is expecting everybody to have a mirror setup.
So back to my original comment which is still valid for ben0551, it all depends on the setup…
What is unusual is expecting everybody to have a mirror setup.
Nobody expects this. RAID is usually to avoid downtime and backups are to avoid loss of files, hence my surprise at using RAID in place of a backup.
If you have a system that works for your needs, such as backups of important files and files that can be retobtained stored on a RAID for convenience if a drive fails, having that system that works for you is what matters.
Curious as to the 3k figure for a backup system though, how was that calculated?
My ongoing costs for my backup system is around $200 per year and no setup cost, for around 100TB and versioned backups to restore to an earlier version of a file if needed. While the drive in this post is great for RAID, in my case it would cost about $3500 for a RAID1 with these drives, which is over 15 years worth of offsite backups with versioning. Within 15 years these drives would need to be replaced due to age.
My family shares our backup system, and we all have our own unique encryption keys. Due to the amount I need backed up though, I'm definitely an edge case, and a RAID plus small backups are perfect for many other people, it's all about what works for the individual.
@NobalaKoba: for the $3k+ figure
$299 for 14tb drives, x 9 (126tb total, $2691)
The rest of the money for the actual rig to hold it
@whitepuma: If you want offsite, might be worth looking into Gsuite Business.
12 USD per month per user. You're meant to have 4+ users for unlimited storage, but that's never been enforced, so it's 12 USD per month for unlimited storage.
To prove you're a business you need to have a domain name, so that's about $10 or so for a year, then change registrar to cloudflare for later years (they pass over the exact domain cost, and don't add anything to the cost).
Using duplicacy or a similar tool, your backups can be uploaded to the Gsuite storage with encryption, you connect to the Gsuite the same way as regular Google Drive.
There's an upload cap of 750gb per day, per user registered in the 'organisation' but after the initial backup, this is unlikely to be an issue.
@NobalaKoba: Yeah i've looked up the Gsuite business solutions….my problem with that is
1. Where i am located and how much i am willing to pay means my internet connection isn't sufficient enough to get the speeds i would want from Gsuite, so on-prem is the better solution for me for this.
2. without getting into further detail. I don't like the idea of google having the ability to snoop on my files (which they can and will do), i fear of the possibility of me being in breach of googles terms of use….even if i were to encrypt it i'm still in breach….unfortunately google also has the ability to cancel my use of their service even based simply off of suspicion.
3. based on the costs of the g-suite solution….so long as my hdd's last more than a year and a half (which they do, and if they don't i have warranty on the hdd's) it's cheaper for me to do on-prem with hdd's…..However if for whatever reason my hdd's didn't last more than a year and a half on average then i would have a perfect reason to switch to g-suite.
Chuck it in the array and expand. As long as you've already got a parity drive there (and it's big enough) then you're get the full benefit of the 14tb.
I usually do. Shuck them and put them in a NAS.
Max 1 per order for this tho :(
If you value your data then you would perform a backup. You can selectively perform backup for specific folders that are more critical so you don't require 2 x 14TB.
Again 3 copies are critical data is a good idea and stored offisite also is possible.
Backups also prevent against accidently deletion and not drive failures.
I don't feel the need to backup my Linux ISOs
I have 18TB of Linux IOSs that I really don't want to lose in my Synology NAS.
With some culling, this could be a good option for me to backup.
I also want to change the underlying filesystem of the NAS to btrfs instead of ext4, and to do that I have to unload all the data.
edit: also looking at the specs - 5GB/sec on USB3. So that would take about 40 hours to transfer.
I probably need to re-examine my life choices.
5 Gbps is the max bandwidth of USB 3.0 (or USB 3.2 Gen 1×1 as it's currently known).
These drives are more likely to have a sequential R/W range of 100-200 MBps depending on where on the platter you're reading / writing to.
This would mean it would take about 26 hrs to fill this drive (using an average speed of 150 MBps.
Using a calculation of 5 GBps would come to ~47 minutes to fill, so not sure where the 40 hours came from?
lmao
Do people who get a 14tb HDD get 2, to backup their 14tb HDD?
Probably but you really need offline, cold storage backups in addition to just a live mirror of your data on another device/host.
also using Unraid for two servers, one an offsite backup with syncthing
currently using 10TB & 8TB drives though
I bought 4x 14TBs to backup my main NAS server.
Have room for one more but might wait for further price reductions.
Both servers running unRAID.
I saw the review on Amazon on this drive stating that now the drive inside is air-filled, not helium-filled anymore. Could anyone confirm please?
Did they open the drive to test the gas ? ;-)
HardDiskSentinel 5.70.1 would report a value "20" on the S.M.A.R.T. page, which indicates the drive is helium-filled. (WD drives only)
Air filled haven’t breather holes whereas helium are fully sealed. (IIRC)
I can say that the WD external run at 45-50C while Seagate external runs below 40C in the same ambient temp of 21C. All drives are 10TB+ in capacity and seagate have a much more restricted airflow case design
Seagate external cases are rubbish for airflow - prior to shucking the 16TB Seagate (EXOS inside) it was running about 10 degrees hotter than my WD (~45-50) like you said.
That said I'm not sure that higher temperatures will affect the life of the drive, that said I try keep mine cool.
in my setup i have 4x shucked WD element 14tb drives sitting ontop of each other in a hdd cage with a single low speed 120mm noctua fan blowing at them.
Running 24/7, peak temp i'm reaching is 35, not peak it's usually around the 30 mark.
But i got no idea how these are performing in their default setup….
When I preclear mine before shucking, they get to 50+°C if I don't point a fan at them.
it varies. With these external drives there is no guarantee on the exact specs OR consistency of the drives inside. so long as they give the storage capacity they promised then they are in the clear.
So unless WD specifically says if the drive is helium filled or not, you can't expect it to (or not to) be.
I've once purchased the exact same model number from two separate batches….shucked each drive and found the drive inside were two very different drives.
The reviews are not just for the 14TB. WD started using air-filled drives in the 10TB versions (and also the 8TB, going by the review). To date, larger drives have all been helium filled.
To think I did not pull the trigger on this when it was $299 (don't ask me when) some time in the past.
Was in January this year, before Chia mining almost doubled the price.
I remember that deal. My 14tb drive is working nicely.
Same. Crazy good value.
Does this drive also auto delete everything when connected to the internet?
what? not sure if you are being serious or not
interesting, i didn't know this happened.
Either way based on my limited research, the fact that this drive doesn't connect to the internet i think we are in the all clear.
No
I've been doing photography awhile now and would like to explore better backup options that are not subscription based. Can anyone recommend a standout how-to video anyone can recommend for a nut like I am (I know what are HDD, SSD, SATA, M2 etc but not RAID or shuck)?
for non subscription:
easy but more costly solution: buy a NAS, synology makes some good ones, buy hdd's and stick them in there….The more you pay, the more capacity you get. Many modern day NAS's have easy setup with cloud functionality etc….
Not so easy, but can either be cheaper OR have more functionality: setup your custom build PC/server that's fit for purpose….Although i do this, i don't recommend you doing this unless you have a genuine interest in the area and are willing to spend plenty of ongoing time tinkering and learning.
But but but a Nas uses raid doesn't it? Apparently you are not allowed to back up to raid.
its not that you are not allowed to backup to a raid. its that you dont depend on a raid as your one and only copy of any given data.
any data can be corrupted or lost even in a raid setup. the more important the data. the more copies of said data you should have incase of storage failure for whatever reason.
in saying that it becomes a complete waste to a point to have a back up of a back up of a back up as it becomes far to cost prohibitive.
You are allowed to "backup" however you want….but depending on what you are willing to pay for will vary what extent of "backup" you will have.
mirrored raid setup in the 1 unit….will you have backup for if a single drive fails? yes…..will you have backup for if the whole thing gets damaged or the building catches on fire? no
Like….the best form of backup is to have multiple separate backups in different physical locations aka offsite backup, whilst maintaining a mirrored raid setup in each individual location….But not everybody is prepared to pay the ridiculous fees that go with this….i know i dont have that sort of disposable income.
@whitepuma: What you are on ozbargain and don't live off instant noodles so you can have a fully redundant off site back up of your data? Shame.
/s
@whitepuma: Yeah, really confused now, I bought a Nas to back up my computer's because they promoted it as a backup solution but everyone tells me not to use raid as a backup
I purchased x2 of these when they were roughly $300, and only last week shucked one of them.
I bought Kapton Tape for the 3.3v mod (some users reported you don't need it when inside of a desktop but i did), used Nail Clippers to cut it to size, worked first shot.
?
Sorry, my sentence prior to the link wasn't added above.
Did you do something similar to the link above? Was it a white label WD drive?
Camels are broken, they show lowest $337, but lowest was $299 here https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/572428
Yeah we used to get the 18TB at cheaper price ($434.35) not too long ago too.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/612624
Wow $299 is a very good price!
Wow prices have gone up, paid $299 last year for this and I decided too sell it over a WD 8TB drive, looks like I should've kept it, well the 14TB drive a better drive then the 8TB version 😁
Yupz same deal
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/572428
no 12Tb available in the link ?
The 12TB sold out, was available when I made that comment
This is Currently $402 + shipping (free with prime). Best price since chia.
price at $450 right now
i was planning to get a 4 bay nas, these are good for use in a nas ?
Asustor AS5304T ?
Synology DS 920+ ?
just run 2 drives using raid 1, then add 2 more drives, running all in raid 1
https://au.pcmag.com/nas/12459/the-best-nas-network-attached…
Do people who get a 14tb HDD get 2, to backup their 14tb HDD?