Australia
Which Country Would You Go to Escape The Cost of Living? » All Comments
Ok, then stay here and try to save money to get through these tougher times. Half the planet would love to move here. If you move elsewhere, what's to say that country won't suffer a similar (temporary) decline? If you have plenty of funds: Switzerland or any of the Nordics.
The difference is there, the average voter is a far better educated citizen than the average Australian voter and when they don't like things they protest. Real protests not extinction protests or other corporate funded identity faux shenanigans.
Switzerland is very very expensive. I was there for 2019-2020 in Basel, Lucerne and Zurich, I have good friends 20 minutes drive into the country- food prices aside from local produce very expensive. Basel was probably the most affordable- but it is a grungy kind of student city. Lucerne is gorgeous and over-loaded with amenities- but not at all cheap. Zurich similar- and according to locals- all the wealthy people live in the countryside taking advantage of agricultural tax-breaks- and the same goes for the Ski towns like St Moritz, Zermat, Klosters, Verbier etc. Rural Italy and Greece is very attractive food is cheap, though with housing have to be careful the $1 old castille you bought has clauses that you have to renovate it to historical standard using artisans using traditional techniques, under supervision of specialist acrhitect etc, etc. Portugal and Spain are good. Hungary is gorgeous and cheap, and no friend of anti-Christian nonsense (actually Switzerland is like that too Catholics in the German speaking areas with a very strong arm on government)Real protests not extinction protests or other corporate funded identity faux shenanigans.
no friend of anti-Christian nonsense (actually Switzerland is like that too Catholics in the German speaking areas with a very strong arm on government)
That sounds like the closest thing to paradise on earth, seriously. No coincidence that Switzerland tops the charts in many areas of areas of human endeavour and welfare.
@UnternamenBernhard: if you look at france who protests all the time for nothing, its just a routine and doesnt really change anything - usually at that point the gvt plan is locked and loaded.
Rural places or the whole of switzerland usually dont like people from out of town its very different to being there as a tourist. I dont think renovating a castle or mansion will get you to escape the cost of living but thanks to anyone doing so (france and italy have quite different views on renovation ).
Its not very nice to spread racist/extreme right image of a beautiful place like hungary, that issue is a little more complex as "hungarians aint takin no nonsense", the world doesnt need more conflict.
Everyone always says Sweden/Nordic… I feel like they don't know what they are taking about and are relying on reputation alone.
I lived there for two years, paid 25% 'GST', 50% worse pay (teaching), smaller housing, higher costs for services, longer waits for healthcare and worse behaviour/outcomes at schools. A beer after work or a coffee was a 'luxury' for most of my colleagues. Thankfully I had AUD savings to rely on so I could have some fun during my time there.
No I would not recommend over Australia… unless it's just for the short term and you want to learn/travel. Noway however, is an exception.
@The Wololo Wombat: My experience in the Nordics was complete opposite of nearly a decade living there - lower tax rate (24%), smaller housing (don’t end up with urban sprawl and actually have community), healthcare was easily accessible, world class and basically free (MRI cost me 50€ at most), fantastic education system (free). Beer costs the same as here, coffee culture doesn’t exist though. It’s not crazy expensive except in Norway but you should be earning NO level money there to compensate.
If you have plenty of funds: Switzerland or any of the Nordics.
But they have a high cost of living
@slipperypete: Yeah, but you can't have high standard of living without the high cost. OP mentions cost in the title yet standard in the post.
https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.j…@sumyungguy: ah yes. didn't read it did I!!
I love their way of doing things. Pay more but all get looked after better too
@slipperypete: my thoughts when i arrived in aus, this place is the switzerland of the south.
Now that i've been here a bit, I usually think australians dont know how lucky they are. Europe is a bucket of poop, asia is fine if you can adapt, like a stressful sort of life and a very different perspective of healthcare, pacific islands are expensive.
I havent lived in africa or the americas yet
Too cold. Too stiff to have good banter with. Respectively.
I live in Switzerland. High income and high cost of living. Inflation rate is 2.2% and interest rate is 1.5%. GST is only 7.7%. Meat is expensive but I just do my shopping over in France where it is cheaper. No need for private shool fees for the kids as public schools are amazing. If you rent a house, the landlord can only increase the rent in line with inflation. If you buy a house your interest rates are low and you can fix your repayment for longer than in oz. Direct democracy. Location wise, you are less than 2 hours to holiday destinations.
Keep away from Scandinavia and Switzerland if you are suffering from cost of living pressures. They are the only places in the world that are more expensive than Australia.
My advice is, move to a cheaper state in America, in the South/SouthEast, like Arizona, Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma. Houses have more land + central heating and cooling; food, petrol, and electricity cost less; tradesmen and manual labourers are much more affordable than in AU.
Eastern Europe is another option (Hungary was mentioned); possibly Thailand is worth considering as well.
I'm living in Switzerland now.
Switzerland is a terrible choice if you are trying to maintain a high standard of living whilst living off savings and investments.
The cost of living here is approximately double Melbourne. I pay $12 for a large coffee, $10/kg for apples, $700 / month for public transport and $1600/week rent for a small furnished 1 bedroom flat.
However if you are broke and a wage slave - Switzerland is very good with very high wages and low cost education and low taxes. Just expect to consume alot of those high wages on day to day living. And don't expect much with housing. Very low supply and very high demand make Melbourne and Sydney's rental market look like some kind of paradise.@BluebirdV: Average wage is around $100k. Bare in mind that the swiss workforce is very educated. If you live in Geneva or Zurich, dont be surprised to meet mostly people with postgrads in an office.
@drfuzzy: Where do people in Switzerland live then? Is it just a lack of choice and people are forced into house shares or shitty housing? What if people are unable to secure a property and how do they manage their homeless population?
@cadwalader: They have houses and apartments. The government also invests in affordable housing for poor people. People dont move houses a lot. It just means there isnt a lot of houses to choose from.
@drfuzzy: Where in switzerland are you paying 3800 francs per month on rent? You renting a palace on lake geneva? If you maybe compare this with a rental in sydney on martin place or boublebay, then the prices are the same.
$700/mth on public transport? Buy an SBB annual card for $530/mth and you get unlimited access to all public transport train bus and ferry across the network at all time. Maybe you should mention these things. Otherwise people might think you are paying $700 to get to work.
@Stromae: …..and a large cappuccino was around 5 francs at Lake Geneva when I was there 3 months ago, maybe he lives in St Moritz :)
Half the planet would love to move here.
You must be on your 5th VB crappy aussie beer?
What's the selling factor here in Australia, let's talk about NSW.
* The exorbitant costs of living and property?
* Maybe the 20% you pay extra on any car compared to the rest of the world?
* The delayed fashionwear?
* Maybe the $60 packet of Cigarettes, or non-existent access to Cigars?
* The long queues of road traffic wherever you go?
* The shortage of seasonal vegetables?
* General uptight people, full of rage?
- Maybe the 20% you pay extra on any car compared to the rest of the world?
That is honestly so little it could get a lot worse in other countries. Where i'm from it's 85% - 145%, there is no LCT threshold or anything like that.
And your rego depends on displacement. If you happen to have sth silly like a C63 AMG, be prepared to pay like 5k AUD in rego alone lol.
@frostman: you can find a job if you want to and you dont even need to be that educated to actually get one that pays decently.
nobody should be smoking they should make ciggies $100 in my view, otherwise yeah roadworks do make you go crazy@frostman: COL in Australia is inline with most Western European countries - more expensive in some ways, cheaper in others.
Salaries are high (well they are in WA where I live with many having some of the highest incomes in the Western World).
Levels of disposable income are very high.
Some new cars are cheaper in Australia compared to places like the UK. Others are more expensive. Used cars are expensive.
Don't smoke.
Consumer electronics are cheaper than Europe.
Traffic in parts of Europe is insane. No thanks.
Most of what Australia eats is produced here, so seasonal vegetables are a thing. Many countries can't feed themselves, so importing vegetables is a thing.
There are uptight people here for sure but ever been to Switzerland, Germany, France? Most people wherever you go are friendly (to a degree) but you're going to get assholes everywhere.
Taxes are too high in Australia.
the health system is excellent (NHS anyone?).Sure, Australia has issues, some of them major but we also get a lot right.
I'm happy.
Some new cars are cheaper in Australia compared to places like the UK. Others are more expensive. Used cars are expensive.
Dude, my friend had to pay LCT (Luxury Car Tax) on his Klugar because it was $79K, yeah $79K for a lumbering klugar.
Not cars are cheap here, unless you want the Chinese-made garbage like- MG
- Haval
- Great Wall
Go get a Renault and see what maintenance is like. Australia was so smart, it got rid of AU-made Holden and Falcon.
Don't smoke.
Ok howabout I tell you, dont drink grog?
Traffic in parts of Europe is insane. No thanks.
Yes maybe, Champs-Élysées.
Here, you can be on Canterbury Road Marrickville at 7pm and get stuck is traffic.
@frostman: As a non-smoking non-fashion model many of those points don't apply to me or dare I say the common man, I've worn the same type of pants for 10 years and a t-shirt.
Also I lived in California, our traffic is light, and our housing is cheap compared to there lol. Everyone thinks the grass is always greener somewhere else. Someone will shoot you in traffic for cutting them off or at the supermarket, again Australian scale of rage is not as bad.
Recommending the most expensive countries on earth as a way to escape cost of living.😂
You can't do much worse than Australia. The US would be a huge upgrade for instance.
Sure, as long as you don't need essential services… like health care.
@Scrooge McDuck: If youre comfortable with poverty in your face at every turn, including most people serving you in shops and fast food outlets.
@Scrooge McDuck: Our cost of living wasn't exactly outrageous before COVID, especially if you remove housing from the equation, which is expensive for reasons other than wages.
If you don't appreciate the wellbeing of people serving you in shops and restaurants enough to pay a little more from your presumably healthy salary, you fail as a decent human being.
wasn't exactly outrageous…
That's a hell of a qualifier! I think you acknowledge it was still very high.
We have amongst the highest minimum wage in the world, and what do we do here? We sell stuff we dug out of the ground, sell inflated real estate and sell degrees to China.
If it was more economical to run businesses here, some of those people working in shops and restaurants would have higher paying jobs producing goods or services.
We have plenty of basic crap to buy and restaurants to eat at. But we have zero local cars and bugger all local electronics to buy here.
@Scrooge McDuck: Unemployment is at record lows. As implied, our wages (high across the board) more than offset higher prices of goods and services. It used to be fun visiting America to see how cheap food and clothes were (now it's far pricier), but the working poor underclass is the consequence of those 'bargains'
The 'fair go' is a real thing, and is what makes Australia the superior place to live. Just a pity so many living here don't value it, much less understand it. But hey, who needs society when you can hoard cash and flaunt your BMWs etc.
Yes, an upgrade to get shot easily so will have to invest in a Kevlar vest.
100%.
You can find yourself a relatively safe state and call it a day.
You'd have 1,000 different attractions, museums, and events to go to - not including Hiking/Camping.
Ive been thinking about this a bit recently as well. Ive come to the conclusion that Australia taxes fun more than many other countries, so while wages are good, its way too expensive to enjoy it here.
1- I thought Turkey could be good but booze is expensive and too much earthquake risk.
2- To enjoy somewhere I like to be able to walk home drunk late at night and not feel worried, so that puts most of South and Central America out of the equation, Mexico a possibility however.
3-The USA could be decent, fun can be reasonably cheap and lots of scenery to explore, entry requirements make this difficult imo.
4-Puerto Rico I loved, if not for points 2 and 3 then Id easily spend a long period there.
5-Heading to India and Nepal next month to see how they stack up.
6-Malta was lovely, might get bored though.
7-Malaysia is always in the back of my mind, I wasn't a huge fan but it was cheap and safe and had variety e.g Islam, Chinese, Indian. Breaks up the monotony of a singe culture.
8-Tourist pricing in South East Asia wears me out generally.
9-If I was a Digitial Nomad and able to get their visa's then Eastern Europe or Portugal/Madeira could be an idea, except for point 2.
10-Greece has a great vibe and I always feel safe on the islands, shame its not as budget friendly as it used to be.TLDR- After 130 countries travelled I'm still to find one that fits the bill, they each have their pro's and cons. 5-6mths a year in a couple of your favourites is what I'd do.
Side note- Tunisia is very cheap at the moment and has some nice beaches.2 - Uruguay is a safe South American country, and not overly pricey. Don't know why you think Mexico is safer than average Latin America. Even Cancun isn't as safe these days.
3 - Been to US post-COVID? Not anyhthing approaching cheap anymore, even if AUD were still near parity it would be expensive.No, not been since Covid. No cheapish booze in the supermarkets anymore?
Agree with 2 - and if you pay in a restaurant with a foreign credit card the GST is refunded!
Damn I want to se your passport 130 is a lot
I've filled three and the 4th has 7 pages left.
130 countries !!! here i have only travelled to 3 other countries than the country i was born in. Out of curiosity what do you do and how do you fund these travels ?
Hospitality jobs in 5 different countries over the years. Save most of the money then travel as cheaply(and normally as uncomfortably) as I can. When it runs out, figure a way to get some more.
Stay in Straya, I don't want to reduce my quality of living and facilities significantly.
yeah apparently its only $1200 + $2000surprise for a session in ef Emergency Department. bargain!
Eh? If you are covered under Medicare then it is "free".
As in it is funded by everyone's taxes, you won't get a bill.
You're going to a bizarre hospital champ
Otherwise, be brave and do it but with only small steps at a time.
Escape to Tasmania to have a first experience living in another country …
Any country you can live off grid and raise your own food …
Got a small hobby farm in Texas that produces 10-15 head of cattle per year, live off 6 per year, barter with surrounding properties for other supplies ;)
that is only feasible if it's your actual hobby and if you already have a lot of money, and whatever you produce is just an added bonus.
To start a farm just to combat the high cost of living is not financially viable. I watched Clarksons Farm and I legit did not know it's that hard to start and run a farm. And he's got all the connections and money and you can still see him occasionally getting troubled by the farm. I would be surprised if you could even breakeven within the first few years, discounting the endless labour and mental energy you have put in….
That's England, not Texas. Texas is very liberal with farm subsidies- especially if you're into hunting feral hog.
yeah? we're not talking about being a hunter or running a commercial farm. what does a private, self-sustaining farm have anything to do with subsidies?
we're not talking about being a hunter or running a commercial farm.
Don't need to be a full time "hunter", you get paid to eat venison (in it's original definition - ie. game meat - hog and deer) :P
As for commercial, all you have to do to qualify for multiple subsidies (including renewables) is have excess produce!
you get paid to eat venison (in it's original definition - ie. game meat - hog and deer) :P
Think of the hours needed to prepare, track, and hunt lol. idk how much they're paying you to eat, but you may be better off working in hospitality and accept tips as side hustle, $/hour will be way higher.
As for commercial, all you have to do to qualify for multiple subsidies (including renewables) is have excess produce!
Which takes a lot of time, $/hour yield is too little… If you have a full time job it will be really difficult to establish, and most importantly to maintain.
@dukeGR4: If you say so ;)
As far as living it, seems far easier and far more lucrative than you suggest …
@7ekn00: then why don't you live that sort of life first? see how far you'll get farming and hunting? do you seriously think it's that easy and it's like playing a game?
considering the opportunity cost, suggesting someone to farm and hunt (in Texas) to combat rising cost is silly and almost delusional
@dukeGR4: LOL, read my original post, ie "Got a small .."
I have the property and have been hunting, farming and living there as my base of operations for a few years ;)considering the opportunity cost, suggesting someone to farm and hunt (in Texas) to combat rising cost is silly and almost delusional
LOL whatever champ, how dare I know my financials less than you apparently do :/
@7ekn00: i couldn't care less what you do, certainly don't care about your financials.
but you offering this kind of advice is ridiculous. As if that piece of land is free, and money falls from tree… considering the opportunity cost of both time and money to pursue this kind of endeavour.
but you offering this kind of advice is ridiculous.
Sorry, didn't realise you had the monopoly on advice … and I didn't realise only your advice is valid advice :/
All bow to our new know it all overlord :P
Yep, same for me. Though I'd probably live in Florida because I love seafood- though Texas does have it in spades, I like Texas, they have law-abiding good citizen friendly laws, an enormous economy and very business friendly. Texas has superb world class arts and cultural activities- Dallas Symphony for example. Huge amount of tech and high-technology manufacturing (aerospace) companies, huge petroleum industry with many downstream employment, many organic start-ups, farmers markets, superb food. The houses in North Dallas are like palaces- but priced under 1 million Australian pesatas.
Though not a gun nut I'd definitely look into hunting feral hogs for bounty. Shooting dinner and being paid sounds fine by me.
$300,000 buys you a big house on big land built beautifully by Mexican artisans- and the quality of the Latino labour is far superior to most Australian tradies. You try asking the average brick layer to build a double-brick with vaulted brick ceilings he'll look at you like you said, "Jetskis are stupid". Try finding an Australian tiler to do a mosaic. For that matter try and find an Aussie concreter who actually pours a level slab.
Also thinking of moving back to UK. Australia, for an agricultural exporter, has very expensive food.
Australian house prices are insane for shtty veneers and timber frames. Public transport awful. Australia now to compared 20 years ago is shtful. It's gone full communist and green eco-ideologue. I lived in Melbourne under Kennett- awesome time huge amounts of building, it was like SE Asia in the boom years, massive investment in arts and culture, infrastructure, public buildings. Then Bracks and Brumby and other labour d-heads squandered the golden goose's egg pile then gutted the goose and Liberals deserted conservatism.
Lived in SE Asia for 15 years, moved to Australia for more stability- though in terms of security I would argue SE Asian is much better- they'll take justice into their own hands outside the sissy countries like Malaysia and Singapore.
You beat and rob an elderly in proper SE Asia- that's risking a same-day death sentence. You steal in real SE Asia- you're getting beaten to a pulp before surrendered to police. Pickpocket and get caught- that's a beating. No yobbos picking fights. No druggies begging for money.
We left because cost of living was increasing and although it has yet to occur- proving SE Asians are very peaceful, tolerant and resilient- food exceeded way past the 40% discretionary income that historically has had Europe revolt.So just (profanity) go already
I've never seen somebody bitch and moan so hard and yet stay exactly where they are
You know where the airport is
You have a passport
Bye
Why would you take some guy on the internet sharing his opinion so personally? It's (profanity) weird.
@tomtom88: Says the guy by the same logic taking it personally. Pointing out someone a (profanity) doesn't mean they're taking what that (profanity) is saying to heart. It's weird commenting about someone making a comment about someone else comments. No doubt you or someone else will comment about the weirdness of my comment. Thus continuing the pointless and endless circle jerk that is internet arguments that we've all come to enjoy.
@ceroau: Accusing others of bitching and moaning is an attempt to shutdown what could be an interesting discussion. We should be encouraging people to share their real experiences and opinions on a topic, not telling them to (profanity) off because we find their (maybe valid) criticisms personally offensive.
@tomtom88: unternamenbernhard hijacks every post with unhinged, accusatory, off topic rants and ranks within the most ‘profanity weird’ comment history on OzB.
Not sure that GrueHunter is taking it personally, just commenting what at least 30 other people are thinking.
I'm worried they'd still have OZb there :(
You are extremely negative about life and don't seem to fit with the Australian lifestyle.
Go find a nice conservative country and a nice conservative church going partner and maybe you will be less unhappy.
i think he's from Indonesia, he should probably move to Aceh lol that place is fun!!!
they have law-abiding good citizen friendly laws
As long as you're the right colour of course…
You do give off Florida vibes
Pretty much what I said here
Crappy apartments, thinnest gyprock gets approved. Government cares less as they're raking in the stamp duties.
Shoddy.You can hear the next door neighbour fart, you pay 700K+ for a 2-bedder and pay this off the rest of your life here.
Then you hit 74 yo, access an offset pension that you can be grateful if you can visit Lucky Hot Bread every morning for a slice of toastThis country was voted the highest in drug importations, which explains why house prices explode.
That's a paddlin'.
100% agree with Australian tradesmen being low skilled!
A Pom having a massive whinge about the country he has no intention of leaving. Such a novel concept.
POM from the first fleet or new arrival? Either way, they have no intention of going back.
You could do that in North Western QLD or a lot of places in the top end. Most certainly cheaper than emigration to Texas.
No you cant.
The only thing that links Florida to Far North Queensland (FNQ) is the tropical weather, and beaches.
FNQ is a ghost town compared to Florida, jack-all to do.
If you're not swamped by mosquitos all year round, you'd have to put up with the cyclones and crocodiles and weirdos with no work.What does Florida have to do with Texas?
What happen you get sick in America ?
Best doctors in the world are in US
Geographic arbitrage is a powerful thing.
Understand though your lifestyle will need to change. Even if you've got the finances to live the high life and access all the services, there a huge cultural component to adjust to.Nonsensical beauracracy, social norms, foreigners can often never truly integrate, find taking longer, e.g Argentina why do i need to go through 5ppl to pay and bag my groceries?
Sure Australia had its issues but sometimes it's not until you leave that you really appreciate what we have and the lottery we won simply being born/ living here.
Lottery- we got the booby prize- with no boobs.
Nonsensical beauracracy, social norms, foreigners can often never truly integrate… No that's mentality. How about actually speaking the language and assimilating instead of btching and moaning? Argentine is a wonderful country.
Australia has woeful nonsensical bureaucracy. Try getting a permit to build a back deck. Australia is sht, it has gone to sht and apologists like you minimise how sht it has gotten so that others who didn't live in a period when we actually had cheap energy and manufacture and a modicum of export activity don't realize how low Australia has fallen.
Argentina inflation rate year-on-year to April 2023 108% - not exactly helpful if OP is looking to escape the higher cost of living.
I thought in Argentina you just change money in small amounts as you need it. Then it doesn't erode sitting in a local bank account or under the mattress. The reason it's so cheap for foreigners is because of inflation.
@BluebirdV: Technically those black market FX places are illegal and the government could put you away (low odds but you are a foreigner and a good scapegoat). The official USD exchange rate isn't great.
As I and others have said, please leave then. We aren't holding you hostage.
instead of btching and moaning?
the irony
Malaysia
What are the reasons you would pick Malaysia? Any particular places there which stand out? It's definitely convenient to return to Australia from there if need be.
If you like an insipid boring imitation of culture Malaise-sia is a functional albeit characterless duplicate of Sumatra, without the religious freedom and constitutional racism.
but if Indonesia is so great why did you move out in the first place?
the internal hatred and racism is so strong with this one i cannot even comprehend.
You are ridiculous
Low cost of living, stable democracy, delicious food, great hub for regional travel, strong exchange rate.
Only downside is the hot and humid weather.
and they speak english too!
And the hot weather is not even a downside ! Never need to pay for heating , going out at night is great you can just wear a top and pants no need for the 10 layers we need to go out at night in melb .
You don't need to live in your kathmandu jacket for 6 months. You can throw away all your jacket “s !@Youi2018: Too hot is better than too cool. It is cheaper to use fans or air conditioning than heating. A family member went to southern Siberia; it is -35 Celcius is Winter. No wonder the mortality rate was so high in the Soviet gulags.
@BluebirdV: I googled deaths from heat versus cold
This is the first line that comes up:
Both heat and cold can kill. But cold is far more deadly. For every death linked to heat, nine are tied to cold.
Nice “ facts” you have
You will forever be a non- bhumiputra and second class citizen
@MakkhiChoos: non-bumiputra and second class citizens only apply if you are Malaysian Chinese or Indians. This does not apply or affect you if you're a foreigner.
This distinction is necessary in Malaysia because it will decide who gets positive discrimination and receive affirmative action. As a foreigner moving there, why does it bother you?
If you pick a state in Malaysia lilke Kuala Lumpur or Penang, and if you're paid in Australian Dollars, it's like what schwinn said. Excellent choice of food, low cost of living, safe environment, rent can be cheap, and not a million miles away from Australia. If you live in Johor Bahru, it's next to Singapore where you can simply cross the border if you wish to visit. But Johor Bahru is not as safe as KL or Penang. But yea, the hot and humid weather :) And most Malaysians are bilingual and can speak English, and Malay or Mandarin. A good and friendly environment if you ask me. I would have also suggested Singapore but the cost of living is crazy high.
It also has second home program so can live there
My first thought too. Vulnerable to climate change though due to proximity to the equator.
Yep I could live there, diverse, great food, decent transport and cheap surgery :D
My mate moved to Malaysia, does remote programming work. For some reason, he rescinded his Australian citizenship (I didn’t even know that’s a thing you can do) and knocked up his missus, who was there on a study visa. Apparently she failed all her subjects, but they can’t send her back to Sudan pregnant or with a baby for obvious reasons. But because he isn’t an Australian citizen anymore, he’s got no leeway bringing her here either. Odd situation to say the least.
Odd indeed.
I would love to, but can i just pack up and go and stay for 6 month? or what do i need to do?
what about your jobs? will you end up with a job that have similar wages? or will you end up with a job that have less wages but way cheaper cost of living?
Wages aside, I have a Chinese background and am currently travelling in China for a short period, I find myself loving Australia way more than China at this stage, as I haven't visit China for the past 5+ years and am not used to how everything works here.
Here is a list of things that you might want to consider:
1. which side do they drive? I find myself keep checking wrong side when I want to cross the road.
2. how strictly does people follow traffic rules? Although there are dumb drivers in Australia, but it certainly isn't nearly as bad with less drivers in general.
3. how crowded is it? does people line up and stuff? (younger people here in China have pretty decent education level so wasn't too bad here except it's kinda messy with more people in the lines)
4. water quality varies, where I am staying rn have hard waters, we can't drink raw water here, and boiled water taste crap.
5. how's their education level?
6. how likely will you get robbed? (at least with surveillance camera literally all over the place, it makes China way safer than most other place including Australia)
7. Languages?I would argue Asians are less prone to anti-social behaviour and have far more respect for their elders.
That respect doesn't extend to foreigners though. Expect passive aggressive service and unapologetic racism.
That sounds like how foreigners are often treated in Australia. In my experience, foreigners in Asia on the other hand get treated very well, pedastalled even.
I heard that Australians are going to Germany and Vietnam. I can't find top emigration locations though. Does the gov publish it?
Vietnam very popular, cheap and very orderly- like Indonesia was under Suharto. Good place to go- government is very hungry to develop.
I have thought about Vietnam but isn't the visa situation difficult?
I'm on vacation in Vietnam right now typing this from my hotel room. It's a beautiful country, the food is amazing, things are affordable with an Aussie salary, people are nice, not Thailand nice, but still nice. Everytime I go for a walk though, it feels like I'm gambling with my life. There is no rhyme or reason to traffic, the locals are born into it and they "get" it. There is no "order" as we're used to, police force is almost non existent which is probably a good thing, I suspect bribes are rampant. Highly recommend going on a vacation here. However, everytime I travel it makes me appreciate how absolutely amazing Australia is. Unless you're rich and can live like the 1% in a foreign country, I don't understand why anyone would leave our amazing country. Every person who knows I'm visiting from Australia wishes they could live there. Then again, I'm an immigrant who's family moved to Australia as a young child, so my appreciation, even during this difficult time in Australia, could be blinded by experiencing what it's like not living in Australia. Besides the housing crisis, I don't see any other country coming close to it multiculturaly, lifestyle wise as well as the diverse scenery from the main cities concrete jungles, to sprawling forests, beautiful coastal area, amazing islands if you have a boat or want to vacation locally, or even the barren deserts if long drives living in a camper is your thing. I even love saying Australia. Australia, Australia, Australia. 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
@spacemannn: Lol I am sure you are joking about lifestyle in Australia. Now there is no one perfect country but considering Australia for lifestyle might be just overboard. You do not need to be mega rich as the 1% to enjoy a foreign country.
Germany sounds good. One of the villages.
China will make Vietnam a hell in coming years.
Why????
Something to do with the sea, dams upstream to their bloodline rivers.
excuse me, sir, you're wrong. China is making Vietnam "a hell" in thousand years, and more to come, so what is your point?
Erewhon
Romania FTW
yeah Bugatti is cheaper there too!
I'm currently in Romania for a 3 week holiday as my wife was born here, we're here every summer for a few weeks, since covid most prices have sky-rocketed here and the wages being lower than Australia definitely not Romania for cost of living, I just paid $2.20 a litre for diesel on our way back to bucharest from the countryside, back home in Brisbane diesel is currently $1.90? Clothing brand names are much more expensive like most department stores, clothing markets are the only cheaper option for clothing, a proper caffe coffe is on par with Aus at about $3.90 for a flat white, eating out at a restaurant is not much different in price compared to home in Bricbane City and tips are expected here. The only things i have noticed that are cheaper here are alcohol, public transport, european made vehicles. I love this place and most people under 40 years of age speak English so theres no real language barrier but there's no place like Australia, maybe retirement in Romania is the better option.
Isn't that where the Top G is living?
Malaysia, english is widely spoken especially in PJ and KL.
if you don't earn a local salary you can REALLY live like a king there. Stay around Mont Kiara/Bandar Utama/TTDI, these suburbs are bloody lit… night market, hipster cafes, bars with live music etc.
see if you are eligible for Malaysia My Second Home program
You can stay at Genting Amber Court to escape the hot humid weather, whilst enjoying fresh air.
And enjoy the constant landslide?
Malaysia is a poor man's Indonesia with none of the culture, cuisine, self-respect or historical depth. A nation perpetually hiding behind the skirts of mother, ruled by chauffeurs dressed as sultans with a people who mangle Jambi Malay with their stupid nyamok instead of nyamuk.
Malaysia is broke, bankrupt intellectually, culturally and financially, and suffers multiple identity crises. Is it an Islamic nation, is it a Malay nation even though most Malays live in Sumatra? We're not Sriwijaya, we're not Majapahit, we're not Mataram, we're just ruled by fugitive traitors fleeing Java.
Steal more culture and cuisine Malaysia- UNESCO will recognise who it truly belongs to.sir this is Wendys
I am offended on behalf of Malaysian, even though I'm not Malaysian lol
I'm never been to Malaysia, but in my opinion, besides Singapore, Malaysia has nice street food, good doctors, a lot of things to do there and people can speak English better than most of the other Asean countries,
The cost of living crisis in Australia explained.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ABMxDSukE
10 minutes
I'd rather not hear ocker-speak for ten minutes especially from some know-all infant vanity afflicted threading surgery addicted shthead.
I've been around the homeless camps in USA where tertiary educated former house-owners are screwed right over. And not in the bullsht humanties degrees the government uses to hide real unemployment and job-seeker statistics.This is where Australia is headed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV4wcZDQOP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOHJv9w6MkE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjE5mBXDKIU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5XIljwl5hI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXigmmgo1kA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDGSK-YSem0Sinking ship. Woke idiots. Imbecilic science ignoring ecological nutters. Bankers=politicians=bankers. Not good. Serious change required.
Oh, so it turned from politics criticism to climate denial? You sir should go back to your mum’s Facebook or somewhere.
How’s al gores predictions going? Heard he has some very expensive waterfront properties.
This guy is right. Australia has long been subverted and is slowly being demolished.
You know all those things conspiracy theorists got right over the last 3 years? They're onto something with this too.
Those who are doing this instruct you to attack anyone who talks about it.
What are the things that you thing conspiracy theorists got right over the last 3 years?
@ArjaytheGuy: I think they got a lot right about Covid, 15 minute cities, central bank digital currencies, the push to eat bugs, the never ending/increasing immigration, more things
@belongsinforums: Since you needed to go for the strawman argument I take it no disagreements with the ones I mentioned?
- The Wuhan Institute of Virology as the source of the virus. This was racist conspiratard nonsense of a long time. Now, it's what the US government thinks is the source.
- Vaccines: We were told to get vaccinated in order to protect the vulnerable but the vaccines didn't prevent transmission or infection. The vulnerable are still just as vulnerable as they were before the vaccine rollout.
- Masks: Considering that the vaccines didn't work as promised, why aren't we still wearing masks? Granny killing is acceptable now for some reason.
We lost our minds during covid. I for one lost a lot of respect for this country and the people who live here.
@buckster: What did I say that made me a tinfoil hatter? I'm just glad that I'm not a plastic liberal who shills for government and big pharma lol.
@tomtom88: So there is credible data backing up all those assertions? For instance, is there any data to assert that more people wouldn’t have gotten infected or died without the vaccines?
Edit: the Covid source wasn’t really a conspiracy theory, it has just never been verified (and still hasn’t). Edit 2: from my research only one of the 18 US agencies in the Intelligence community believes with “moderate confidence” that the virus came from a lab in Wuhan.
@whatgift: My data is that I'm double jabbed yet I still caught covid from my wife who is triple jabbed. All that "protect the immunocompromised" crap turned out to be nothing but wishful thinking. Getting vaccinated didn't protect anyone but myself and the vulnerable are even more at risk now because very few people are bothering to wear masks.
is there any data to assert that more people wouldn’t have gotten infected or died without the vaccines
Where did I claim that the vaccines didn't save lives? lol. Maybe you could address what I actually said? I know that bashing straw men is easier but it makes you look a bit silly.
the Covid source wasn’t really a conspiracy theory, it has just never been verified (and still hasn’t).
So a theory about the CCP conspiring to hide the true origins of the virus isn't a conspiracy theory? lmao
Edit 2: from my research only one of the 18 US agencies in the Intelligence community believes with “moderate confidence” that the virus came from a lab in Wuhan.
Biden signed a bill that would allow the release of declassified documents related to the origins of the virus. We're still waiting for said documents to be released but here's a quote from Biden when he signed the bill:
“My Administration will continue to review all classified information relating to COVID–19’s origins, including potential links to the Wuhan Institute of Virology,” he said. “In implementing this legislation, my Administration will declassify and share as much of that information as possible, consistent with my constitutional authority to protect against the disclosure of information that would harm national security.”
@tomtom88: Quote: "The vulnerable are still just as vulnerable as they were before the vaccine rollout." - there's not many variations in the interpretation there. Edit: I concede you were mainly referring to vulnerable people not the wider population - it is still a massive generalisation with no conclusive data to support it.
That bill you mention does not in any way implicate the Wuhan Institute of Virology, just that it is a potential link. That is in no way definitive, considering the current declassified material does not confirm that link…at all: https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclass….
There's a lot of conspiracy posturing going around - choosing specific factual information and anecdotal observation, while excluding key context which completely changes the narrative being presented.
it is still a massive generalisation with no conclusive data to support it
I don't need data to support it, logic is enough. We were told that we needed to get vaccinated in order to stop the spread because being unvaccinated was putting vulnerable people in danger. After we learned that the vaccines didn't stop transmission then logically we can deuce that vulnerable people are still in danger. Yet we all stopped wearing masks and started acting like covid never happened. It's really pretty simple, I'm not sure why you're struggling with this.
That bill you mention does not in any way implicate the Wuhan Institute of Virology, just that it is a potential link. That is in no way definitive
How could we ever get definitive evidence? Do you expect a CCP confession? And what, is that Biden quote just clickbait?
choosing specific factual information and anecdotal observation
Anecdotal observation lol. Did the vaccines stop people from transmitting the virus to others? Yes or no.
excluding key context which completely changes the narrative being presented
Sounds like a mantra. Care to show me where I did that? Look, fear is one hell of a drug. But the majority of Aussies cheered while the police brutalised our brothers and sisters for the heinous crimes of not wearing a mask in public and protesting vaccine mandates. The majority of Aussies were so scared of being infected that they cheered as nurses and teachers were fired for being unvaccinated. In the end, none of it mattered because the vaccines didn't live up to their promise of stopping transmission. I get it, you were scared of losing your loved ones. But that doesn't make your behavior any less shameful.
@tomtom88: Well said tomtom88. To answer your question, even Pfizer came out and said the vaccines don't stop transmission.
As you say, the whole premise everyone was (more or less) force jabbed was false from the start.
And I agree - all those who cheered this on should be shamed.
@serpserpserp: See my reply above with a link to the only official document I found that was relevant to the OP's assertions.
@tomtom88: Source of virus - The source of the virus has not been confirmed, only speculated. The majority of scientists still say that it is not a man-made virus.
Vaccines - Vaccines do not prevent transmission or infection. They never have, because that's not how they work. They essentially "prime" the immune system so that if you are exposed to the virus, your immune system is ready to fight it, meaning that you are less likely to get a severe infection, less likely to have the virus mutate and less likely to spread it. Vaccines protect society by making it harder for the virus to get a hold, mutate and spread. Those vulnerable are still vulnerable, but the more people that are vaccinated, the less likely the vulnerable are to getting infected, and the less likely new variants are. The only people who thought that vaccines prevented transmission or infection were those who didn't know how vaccines work.
Masks - masks work. Plenty of research shows that they prevent viruses when worn. That's why they are still worn in hospitals. Go into a cancer centre where people have low or no immunity and observe that everyone wears them.
Digital currency - For decades, everyone has known that central banks will move towards digital currencies. This isn't new. It will save governments a fortune, make trade easier, and will combat crime. Yes, there are issues, but it's clear that this is the future. So it's not a conspiracy.
15-minute cities - You may not have noticed, but the world has changed. We are now affected by and deal with things globally. Retail has changed, with online sales now being the norm, and working from home now viable. The majority of people don't need to leave their suburb for most things. Inner city living is spreading to regional areas to combat the loss of retail and offices. If we combat climate change, better public transport is a must, and the idea of 15-minute cities is real.
The push to eat bugs -this is not a thing. Yes, bugs are more protein and nutrient-dense than equivalent meat products, but the real move is to plant-based food. Bugs may end up being used as an alternative protein source but are unlikely to be in the form of bugs but as processed protein in the form of sausages, nuggets etc. It isn't a push but is just an alternative that can be used to feed people cheaper.
Never-ending immigration - The world has reached or will soon reach peak population, then will drop, according to official estimates. A Third of the world's population lives in the regions of China and India. It makes sense that these numbers are spread out, and most Western nations are already seeing a decline in birth rates. In order to maintain living standards, we need to keep and even expand our population. If we don't we will see taxation levels decline, which will lead to cuts to services. This is just economics. Once again, we live in a global society, not a national one.We didn't lose our minds during covid. Look at the rest of the world and at the number of lives lost. This was a massive disaster. Then look at the number of lives lost here. Our governments saved lives. Hindsight is also great because we know that they didn't need to do some of the things that they did, but at the time, we didn't know this. Information was changing literally daily. All of our governments relied on advice from experts, which was sensible. We have also taken what we have learned and applied it to plans in the event of future outbreaks or disasters. One of these is better integration with other nations and better integration between states. Were our governments heavy-handed? Yes. But they don't govern for individuals. They govern for everyone, and to do that, the rights of the many outweigh individual rights. This gets us back to vaccines. Vaccines work for the society and community. When individuals take it upon themselves to refuse to be a part of this, then they don't get to be a part of that society and community when it puts others at risk. I lost respect for those who thought that their opinions were equal to those of the experts, and who thought that their opinions should be held as being equal to facts. When you don't even understand how vaccines work, then you don't get to have your opinions heard on them. The only good thing was that we got to see who the idiots were, and hopefully, there is a database with all of their details recorded so that in the event of a major issue, they can be rounded up and locked away for both their own benefit and for the rest of societies.
@thesilverstarman: Wow, awesome well-thought-out and logical response, pretty much bang on with my thoughts - I wish I could express them as well as that!
The source of the virus has not been confirmed, only speculated. The majority of scientists still say that it is not a man-made virus.
So that Biden quote I gave was just clickbait? Does Biden have former BuzzFeed staff writing his speeches?
Vaccines - Vaccines do not prevent transmission or infection. They never have, because that's not how they work.
So why all of the talk of stopping the spread? Why were we encouraged to get vaccinated for the benefit of others? Or are you denying that that happened?
Those vulnerable are still vulnerable, but the more people that are vaccinated, the less likely the vulnerable are to getting infected
How does that work when we remove attendance limits on gatherings? When we're allowing thousands of people to attend mask-free music festivals? Are the vulnerable still less likely to be infected? How does that work, exactly? Are one thousand maskless but vaccinated people who are attending a large gathering more dangerous or less dangerous than a single unvaccinated person? How about 100? How is the risk in those scenarios measured, oh man of science? If it's not zero then what is the justification for letting people die today?
The only people who thought that vaccines prevented transmission or infection were those who didn't know how vaccines work.
Nice! This is what the kids are calling "retconning" now, isn't it? Do I really have to dig up two year old articles to have you admit that this is how the vaccines were sold to us? Really?
Masks - masks work. Plenty of research shows that they prevent viruses when worn.
I didn't say that they didn't. But why aren't they still being worn today? It wasn't an huge inconvenience so why aren't people still saving lives?
Digital currency - For decades, everyone has known that central banks will move towards digital currencies.
I love crypto. Not sure what it has to do with this.
15-minute cities
Huh?
The push to eat bugs -this is not a thing.
Cool. Not sure what this has to do with my comment either.
Never-ending immigration
Cool story, bro. I didn't say anything about immigration.
We didn't lose our minds during covid.
lmao
Look at the rest of the world and at the number of lives lost. This was a massive disaster. Then look at the number of lives lost here. Our governments saved lives.
I didn't say that it didn't. But why did we stop? Did we save all of the lives that were worth saving?
When individuals take it upon themselves to refuse to be a part of this, then they don't get to be a part of that society and community when it puts others at risk.
When did "we" decide that? Is that in our constitution? Was this a survey that I missed, like the gay marriage one?
I lost respect for those who thought that their opinions were equal to those of the experts, and who thought that their opinions should be held as being equal to facts. When you don't even understand how vaccines work, then you don't get to have your opinions heard on them.
Who are these experts you speak of? TV paediatricians who haven't worked in medicine for decades? Are these the "experts" who have you hanging on their every word?
hopefully, there is a database with all of their details recorded so that in the event of a major issue, they can be rounded up and locked away for both their own benefit and for the rest of societies.
That sounds like some sick and twisted sexual fantasy. Yes, you definitely lost your mind during covid and that line there is the proof clear as day. Imagine saying that about any group of people at any other point in history. You have completely lost the plot. I suspect that you will grow out of this phase long before any wrong-thinkers are rounded up.
@thesilverstarman: The response to your post is exactly why I stopped responding - sometimes it’s just not worth it.
Who is this loser?
Sick of seeing his name and comments and negs! Ruining my reading flow
Fiji
Regional Australia. Get out of capital cities and live life
Where? Places like Rosedale trying to sell their country house for $800,000? Wagga median house price 3 bedrooms= 640,000?
Australia sucks now. Anything else is merely pandering and apologist.I moved out of a capital city. It’s changed my life massively. Don’t think I’ve ever experienced real happiness before. There was always this nagging anxiety and dissatisfaction with my surroundings. Can’t believe I didn’t do it sooner.
Houses are much cheaper but lifestyle is better. I can walk to the beach in 3 mins. In the morning I don’t hear cars, I hear birds chirping. I can park right outside the supermarket. Don’t need to remember where I parked and walk for ages through a concrete shopping centre just to buy groceries. Neighbours are nicer. More things to do. No queues. No traffic jams. More nature. Feels like an actual community.
Any recommendations?
Where is that heavenly/Eden garden place you are now ? How is the cost of living there?
I wouldn't call it heavenly. I'm just comparing it to where I used to live. There are other places on the coast I would prefer to live, but can't afford. If I was super-rich, I'd probably buy a mansion on the beach just outside Sydney, Melbourne or on the Gold Coast. But not going to happen in this lifetime.
There is always a trade of to fewer work-in-office opportunities. I made such a move, large regional city-town something like Ballarat or Toowomba, loving it but I have accepted that my career will not go as far as my peers in the bigger cities, I will also make a bit less. In some industries, expect to make a lot less. There is a lot less pressure to perform and a lot less competition though.
Cost of living is about 10 to 15% lower because I bought a house that was more than half as cheap. Everything else is largely similar, FnB maybe a tad higher because there are no international students to exploit. Less petrol because I'm less than 10 minutes from my office. More free outdoor activities, fewer cultural stuff like theatres and music festivals. The time-cost-of-living is much lower too. No queues, no traffic, I wake up at 830 and back before 5.
Not referring to you here but its always funny watching high income Sydneysiders/Melbournites complain about how Australia is such a 3rd world shithole with a high cost of living, immediately jump to leaving the country but refuse to consider moving anywhere else in Australia.
So in other words, if Melbourne and Sydney wasn't flooded with massive third world migration (with these numbers set to accelerate), it would still be great?
They are already great. But I can’t afford to live in the nice areas.
@ForkSnorter: My personal view is Melbourne has or is in the process of being ruined. 45 minutes to drive or PT from Southside to Northside. House prices are crazy. Traffic is crazy.
Care to quote some actual sources rather than anecdote and hearsay? Show me the housing price list medians for these tree-change sea change paradises.
"Don’t need to remember where I parked and walk for ages through a concrete shopping centre just to buy groceries. Neighbours are nicer. More things to do. No queues. No traffic jams. More nature. Feels like an actual community'"
Sounds like quite the emotionally appealing commune. Good for you, hope you have fire insurance for the bushfires because they don't backburn or bulldoze firebreaks anymore.Care to quote some actual sources rather than anecdote and hearsay? Show me the housing price list medians for these tree-change sea change paradises.
"Don’t need to remember where I parked and walk for ages through a concrete shopping centre just to buy groceries. Neighbours are nicer. More things to do. No queues. No traffic jams. More nature. Feels like an actual community'"I'm describing my experiences here so don't need sources. In regard to prices, look at houses that are 3 mins walk to the beach in Sydney and Melbourne, then you'll see what I mean.
Hope you have fire insurance for the bushfires because they don't backburn or bulldoze firebreaks anymore.
No forests near here. It's not like I'm in the mountains or something. I'd call it a very large town.
I'd caution people to do their due diligence here, I live in what was once a quiet regional town, the population has almost doubled in size during the past 6 months, even the real estate agents are surprised (House prices have shot up massively too, I can't believe we has so many 1/2 a million houses or close to it). Now it's always busy and crowded between 9am and 6.30/7pm, we really could have done with another shopping center, plus the council reduced the number of parking spaces when they gave the town a face lift (it was a bad idea initially, worse idea now). We also lost a doctor and their practice, so there's alot of patients without a doctor atm, I don't even know where people are getting doctors and jobs now.
I'm not saying don't move out into a regional town, just pick carefully where your going to live, especially if you want a cheaper/quieter lifestyle.
Which regional town? Checked out Albury and there was so many downsides like a lack of fast connections to capital cities - unless you like spending heaps on infrequent flights. There's no social / night life, jobs are mostly retail or hospo, having a car is mandatory, and its mostly retired folks living there.
having a car is mandatory,
This is for every town smaller than a capital city. Even then, in places like Darwin, Adelaide and Canberra you are probably going to want to have a car.
Yeh, I did that. The ongoing AGW exacerbated natural disasters are a real bummer ( to say the least) my local town is still recovering from last years knockout blow. Not looking forward to another round of fires in 24/25. Overall government support is waning as you'd expect. My house insurance is insane!!!
Kinda wish I'd stayed in the city.
Somewhere in SE Asia probably.
I thought about this myself the other day, I could essentially quit my job, take my money and leave the country and then retire overseas if I wanted to.
Try Malaysia. They provide Second- home policy. Cost of living is far cheaper . More beaches near your home - Penang.
Try Thailand. Despite their regular coups, they're probably the best 'western-values' (democratic, egalitarian, freedom, etc) fit among the warm Asian countries. Malaysia has too many social, racial, sexual and religious issues, and a culture of corruption & nepotism.
And you don't think Thailand has it's fair shair of corruption?
Shair sir? No. Share? Perhaps
Of course every country has. How are Australian politicians retiring as millionaires after lower than market rate salaries? Yes poor struggling multi-millionaire Keating, Rudd, Crean, anyone Labour, Unions…
@UnternamenBernhard: Thailand had a former billionaire as a PM, although was found to be corrupt and fled the country. Also has a history of military coups. Not ideal for a functioning democracy.
Will be spending 6 months a year next time in Malaysia when I retire. Reason? I have properties there and it's cheap, a food paradise and a great base to explore the rest of Asia.
yes all that stolen cuisine.
Boohoo. Go cry to your mommy
Are you a Malaysian citizen? Are you currently renting the properties or do they sit empty? I'm interested in the idea of owning property abroad and wondering how it all works.
generally non citizens have no ownership rights as a legacy of colonial rule- which is based in their Constitutions. You have long term lease 25 years (ie all the hotel franchises) and ownership of strata title.
Which part of Malaysia?
New York
korea, the northern one.
everythings free even a prison cell.
Maybe Malaysia if I could get residence. Their taxation is territorial so any income from shares or property from Australia or elsewhere is not taxed. Also a plus that a lot of them speak english in the capital.
No they speak Manglish. Horrible English is their speciality along with bastardised Malay.
What’s your profession? Other than professional bitcher/racist?
Don’t you worry. Despite what you said about “Manglish”, after some time of staying there you will definitely understand what they speak because soon you will be assimilated as one of them.The more sensible worry is the weather which is hot and humid all year round. Unless you move to Kuala Lumpur which is very closed to Genting Highlands where you can visit from time to time or rent an apartment there ( if you are a retiree) to enjoy the cool weather there.
Do you still have to pay tax on shares and property in Australia if you live in Malaysia?
Yes.. unless you fake your own death.
hmmm, go on…
You either pay tax as a resident (cheaper) or a non-resident/foreigner.
As someone who is an immigrant, there is a saying that I remember, immigration is done by people who believe their problems will magically disappear in other countries. While I don't think that's a fair comment, moving somewhere else will have its own negatives.
My father was deployed to China bramch as one of a executive board member of a global company. We had money and the company paid for things like drivers, schools, and accommodation. We had the money, but I dont say we necessarily had a happy life there because of the pressure, isolation, and stress.
Right now, I frankly want to take a long break, but I can't because I am barely staying afloat as is. When you are overseas and start feeling the weight of not having that support network, it hits you hard. Real hard.
Having somewhere to come back to, and living temporarily overseas would not be bad though. I wouldn't mind a month vacation in Vietnam since I've heard it's cheap there.
I think you suppose people are less thoughtful than they are.
I have seen enough people underestimate these things, or not think about these as most people live around their support network (be in same city, same country etc).
When you have no one around and get so sick that you have to go to hospital, that's when things hit you hard. It is one thing to hear it and completely different thing to experience it.
It's not, I know more than you, but more, I've experienced these and they can definitely hit you harder than you anticipate it if you haven't experienced it.
That's a fair and intelligent point.
I have lived on three continents and 4 countries while growing up (7-24yo, all English speaking) I would add that the politics in Australia are far more civil than any other "western" country. We don't see it here. The squabbles in parliament are insignificant. Australians are all basically clumped around the "middle" in political terms. Anyone too far left or right gets marginalised very quickly. I actually think this is the crazy, imperfect Parliamentary System of Gov working exactly as intended. It's not like it's a millennially aged system right (no human has come up with a better system, they are all flawed)!?
Australia has a top 5 in places to live and earn, as well as raise a family in my book (no1 for that). We are, actually, a "lucky country". Loads of minerals to rely on for economic stability and physical distance from the US (e.g. we're not Canada (my home)). Of course we align with them. We'd be stupid not to.
Cairns- unsure on how the economy is there now? Yes, it is a tourist reliant city but the weather, food is nice. Unsure on housing & living- tourist I would guess it’s expensive.
Only lizards and camels would say Cairns weather is nice and literally nobody would say the food is nice there compared to big cities.
kek
The food there is a lot more limited than in the big cities, but the quality of ingredients is far higher, and, given the large local Asian population, you get far better Thai food for example, and seafood is generally much better than down South. So you won't get amazing variety, but you'll eat very well, indeed the variety of fruit there can't be found elsewhere in the country.
Yeah the food might be good for a tourist who is staying for a week or two. Any longer than that, and you’ll run out of options and be eating the same food too often.
Restaurants in cities like Melbourne and Sydney have so much competition and can’t afford to drop the ball like smaller towns where you have one or two Indian restaurants for example.
You are definitely spot on about fresh produce though. I was only thinking restaurants.
Lovely around there if you can take the heat. Definitely need a good air conditioner to sleep well.
If you're young, I think it's worth doing a working holiday anywhere overseas, regardless of whether you want to escape the cost of living here.The experiences you gain doing a working holiday, or just working overseas, will give you a different perspective, and maybe change your life quite a bit. There are heaps of countries with working holiday agreements with Australia.
20 years ago I would have said your crazy, today I will probably book a one-way ticket out of here before you do
Wife is Thai. I would move there in a second ( not to tourist areas) but unfortunately due to my son's disability and various other factors it will never happen
We did actually have plans in place to move about 10 years ago I had work lined up the whole thing and then we found out about him and had to cancel it all
Honestly.. I feel trapped in Australia these days it is not a pleasant place to be where i live
Agreed 100%, however my main concern would be the availability and cost of health insurance in Thailand when you get past a certain age.
Thailand … Specially if you can work remotely.
In the past I would say Bangkok but I'm starting to like Chiang Mai more and more. It almost has everything Bangkok has. It just needs a metro to alleviate some of the congestion as there are many narrow streets with high traffic.
Also, the coffee culture is amazing in northern Thailand. Diminishes Australia's dominance in that area.
The price difference between the two cities is very much notable as well. Almost half the price for most things.
Then there are amazing scenery and awesome people. There's not much left to love about Australia. The only thing left that I could think of is better work conditions and higher pay.
… just head south to the beach during their nasty burning season!
Chiang Mai is fantastic, if I ever do the expat thing that'd be my first choice. Great mix of modernity and tradition, so you get to be immersed in a foreign culture while still having access to the creature comforts of home. Chiange Mai has a big scene of expats and digital nomads so it would be pretty easy to make friends with people doing something similar to you.
Visited Chiangmai last year - loved the vibes, seems like a very easy place to live.
Argentina is a great place to live on an Australian income. Finland is not cheap but it is top of the happiness league although the winters are a bit tough. I would definitely live there again.
WA. They don't think they're part of Australia
Literally just had a conversation with my friends and created a (fake) conspiracy about how WA is actually an off-shore Australian territory (as a joke).
Shhhh! Quiet! We are full here in WA.
Went to WA in 2009. Mind blown how expensive it was then compared to the east. Mining boom maybe. Ended up going to Bali and Lombok for a month to escape from the cost of living there. Climbing Mount Rinjani in Lombok was the highlight of the trip.
Australia.
no place like home
No place like taking a dump at home
Language barrier??
Cultural barrier??
Adaptation barrier??
Cost of living "might" feel very insignificant then.
There are better motivators to seek a life in another place.As someone whose visited ~70 countries and lived in 4… I wish more Australians knew just how great we have it; EVEN after we're 'suffering' through cost of living increases (it's far for a 'crisis', at least not broadly and 'suffering' is probably too strong).
What's frightening to me is that this sentiment adds political pressure to 'ease' the cost of living though increased spending… a 'solution' which actually exacerbates the issue in the long run and is also the very reason we're in this predicament to begin with (Government spending during COVID, $300b added to the economy).
If you want to escape the cost of living, reduce your expectation for luxuries like a coffee machine, Dyson Vac, Smashed Avo (lol) and a PS5. Or, if you can't hack that…move away from Sydney and Melbourne (or inner City BNE/PER); You can get new a house for 250k-300k where I live. There is no other country (perhaps Norway?) where you will find it better
Have you lived in Ecuador? Sounds like paradise… https://internationalliving.com/countries/ecuador/cuenca/?fb…
Nice! ~25% of the population on <$5.50/day + below the poverty line! Kappa!
True, that's why your money goes a long way there and you can buy a lot more there than you can in Australia.
not sure if srs but ecuador is poor af
The humidity is killer.
No thanks.
Ecuador is 2500 metres above sea level.
Hehe, looked at Ecuador instead of Texas (tax benefits are amazing) - me and mine are just not good at learning languages :/
Was just about to post exactly the same thing. Most Aussies don't realise how good we have it here.
My overseas born / AUS raised mate did his first overseas (Euro) trip with family. One month and 20k later he couldn’t wait to come home and realised how good we have it.
As an immigrant and having lived in a handful of countries prior, I enjoy living in Aus. If you want to live in hot climate move N, if you like it colder move S. If you like cities, well, choose one. If you like the country-side, there’s plenty to go around.
This, I've travelled and lived in many parts of the world for work and leisure and nothing beats the feeling of coming back home to Australian soil. We have the best weather in the world, one of the most politically stable countries, even though cost of living is increasing (but thats the same with most of the world) we have some of the highest median income. Learn to live below your means and do some budgeting.
You're right that we have it good, and that many people crying victim right now are overdoing it (though those on lower incomes are indeed in crisis - typically only the wilfully ignorant dismiss what's going on in real estate). But to dismiss issues of affordability with the tired old trope of smashed avo and coffee is just flat out wrong. People aren't going to the few remaining cheap places like yours because there's no work for them there, and the lifestyle is often not great (e.g. outback), to say nothing of being near family and friends.
Cities are where most economic activity happens, and regions can't support big migrations anyway - just look at the destroyed rental markets in regional cities and towns, who now can't get workers.Young generations spend on luxuries because the option of buying a house has been stolen from them.
250-300K for a house? Can you share more details? Thanks
Search QLD towns between 4-10k population :)
"You can get new a house for 250k-300k where I live."
Where is that?
Maybe Mundubbera, QLD.
A little bit nicer than Mundubbera haha. Also, when I say new, I mean ~5-10 years old.
It's been a long time since I last saw those prices in my area, lol.
Toorak.
You meant yearly rates, right?
Anyone recommend Ecuador? Sounds like paradise. https://internationalliving.com/countries/ecuador/cuenca/?fb…
South America is amazing. Ecuador is pretty wicked. Good idea.
Something that I have long feared is happening now. The Sydney people are cashing out their insanely inflated capital gains, moving to the country, and insanely inflating house prices everywhere anywhere near the coast.
And it's only going to accelerate as people nearing retirement in Melbourne/Sydney find they can move to rural Australia with a better quality of life and a large bank account
I thought this has been happening since COVID.
It’s been happening for decades.
Sell house. Move north. Buy house & cars. Money left over to buy a job.
Huh?
Oh is that what SEACHANGE means?
(profanity), now I know what my parents went through. I thought I was so smart too.
I'd prob be happy in Thailand if I earned 40k Aus there…. Purely to escape cost of living.
Congo republic $10 a day to live like the prince/ princess of Congo complete with straw skirts, lifted up on jute covered chair with peacock feathers fanning you from side to side
I could probably stretch to $15 a day. What do I get then?
Switzerland
Nah - they have us beat for 'mean' wealth per adult, but not median! I'd say median is more reflective.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe…
As someone living in Switzerland I approve this choice. Inflation rate at 2.2%, interest rate at 1.5%. High income. Swiss francs exchange rate at all time high, 1 franc = 2 aussie dollar almost. Strong government, strong migration controls, direct demoncracy, highly skilled workforce, low crimes, great public schools for the kids, free tertiary education. Public servants jobs are reviewed every 3 jobs n get laid off if their job is not needed.
But hey 11% of their bastards have to live outside their country. It is half the size of Tasmania. With 27 tax systems and 29 school systems blue collar workers starting at 6am. Germans flocking there like the pest. After all even a checkout chick can earn 5 times as much. Refugee's from the East can keep their 200k+ cars and collect 4k per mo free money!
So true except for the refugee part. If you dont lift and try to lean, they will kick you out. 27 tax systems means the people have the power, not the federal government. It also means you can lower your taxes by moving into a house across the road.
You pay taxes as a family unit and not as an individual. State pension is for everyone, not just those who didnt know how to save money in their lives.
If you lose your job, you get 80% of your income in unemployment money and this is all from private insurance claim and not taxpayer money wasting scheme called centrelink.
If your super company doesnt manage your money and it drops below a certain level, there are state imposed sanctions on them.
Fiscally, this is how australia should be.@Stromae: Last August I did some exploring of its centre. Tried some Airbnb's and used all public transport.
If you know where to shop I found groceries better value for money. Where else can you buy a 500ml can of beer from 50cents?
Just like a JR rail pass you can buy stuff like the Tell pass and enjoy 10 days of unlimited trains, funiculars, ships and endless cable cars. No gates on platforms and graffiti everywhere. Some low tax areas have even such low power costs that solar is not much of a topic.
Enjoy!
You're doing a good job of upselling Switzerland. The Swiss are evidently doing something right, to have such a strong currency with such a low interest rate and low inflation.
However, because it's currency is so strong, an Australian moving there with their life savings would be at a disadvantage. Also, if you moved to Switzerland on a Australian income, you would struggle. It is only worth it, if you are being paid a local wage or pension. This thread is more about moving to a country with lower costs where your Australian savings/wages/pension are able to purchase more than they can in Oz, such as India, Philippines, Malaysia, Argentina, Slovakia.
Let's all move to Switzerland or maybe Monaco if you don't like the cold.
@shaybisc: You just need a postbox to have an address in Monaco. Amazing small city but the whole coast is wonderful.
Health insurance is the killer in Switzerland, you pay like half your rent and the excess is huge, from the first 3k to a mandatory 10% with idiotic medicine prices. Most rentals come with unflexible leases, depending on the state you may only have 2 moving days a year and need to give 3 month notice. Cars are cheap but parking expensive and endless traffic jams.
You mean Swaziland
It looks like we are assuming you are not earning a local salary but are still earning an Australian level salary and just living abroad? So basically trying to have the best of both worlds? Everyone always says SE Asia is cheap but it's not cheap if you are earning an average local salary
As an immigrant to Aus I strongly feel we have it better here than most of the rest of the world. Yes, housing is expensive, but that issue is not unique to the land down under.
On the other hand,
Australia is a safe place to live
With good healthcare.
You probably have a good support network here comprised of family and friends (which is the hardest part of emigrating).
The country has made if through previous financial storms and will this one too.
You'll be surprised how inefficient systems work in some other countriesSo, my suggestion is to not move abroad but make changes to make your life here work better for you. Do you need to get a new job? Do you need to move out of a capital city? Do you need to rent a smaller place? Do you want to & can you enter the property market?
Thailand or Portugal.
Lol at thinking turkey is cheap. Turkey is even expensive for aud, usd or euro earners.
The ignorance levels of some of these posts Never cease to amaze me here.
OP clearly has a Turkish Netflix subscription and thinks it’s a cheap place to live
Probably.
Iphone pro max 256 gb is 60000 try which is equal to 3000 aud. Good luck living in turkey in better conditions.
aynen
Turkey is a great place, under the feathers.
Not a fan of the place?
When the going gets tough, the rats dessert the ship?(oops mixed metaphor)Just leave repairing the local economy to our efforts.
We'll let you know when you can come home and cash in again.Poor old Straya,more leaners than lifters these days
I wonder what other countries say about economic refugees coming from the land of hypocrisy?Oh god, you're quoting Joe Hockey.
It would be a first. He must have said something relevant that I missed. Not hard, the guy was easy to ignore. You should try it sometime
Australia.
Greece is pretty cheap. (when I visited as a tourist this year).
Moreover a Greek friend (in Australia) of mine told me that towns out from the main cities are like ghost towns (with young people leaving) and you can buy an established old-family house very cheaply. I wonder if that is true.
italy has those $1 houses that they want you to renovate for them
Londone
Pay off your mortgage, rent it out and live in Bali permanently with the rent money. 💰 🤑 💸
Move to Germany!
Eat Sauerkraut each day.
Unlimited speed on the Autobahn.
Endless Beer.
Comrade Scholz paying you Harz4 to live for free!Unlimited speed on the Autobahn.
Isn't most of the Autobahn limited to 130km/h?
At the moment it is still over half unlimited.
Despite that road fatalities are way below European average.
Their 3 automakers are still having some respect.
Watch Autotop.nl on youtube,
I'm originally from Turkey and visited there 2 months ago. To be honest, prices were almost same to Australia except rent. Inflation doesnt mean always cheap because most of raw materials are bought with US Dollars and that affects prices.
I found Easten Turkey to be quite cheap, I was a bit shocked when I got to the western side and saw the prices, Id rather be in the Greek Islands and probably not have to spend much more if I was smart.
OzTopia. It's my commune in the Byron Bay Hinterland. You are welcome for a million dollars. No riff-raff thanks!
Focusing on just cost of living is pretty narrow. There are so many other factors to consider. Finland isn't the cheapest, but it's the happiest.
More than a handful of cookers in here.
Tasmania
A 'high standard of living' is incredibly subjective.
You could pick out a quiet country town in Australia and go live there for free with government handouts and free health care and go to the local pub every day. Go for nice country walks totally safe and not even natural predators.
Or is it theater and fine dining you're after.Except for the flies in summer
If you were to pick a country to live in and still maintain a high standard of living, which one would it be?
Define high standard
Certainty thinking more and more of leaving but the problems are world wide, despite its problems we have a lot of good things here but needs to be fixed. My exit plan was back to Canada, really hope Australia doesn't end up like that, why these problems need to be address and not kicked down the road.
It was my idea, but it's gone terribly woke.
Just move to India and keep your Australian income, live like a king. Don't like my answer/Can't keep your Australian income? Don't ask the question then.
India has gazillion cities. Avoid the metros. Many of the tier 2 cities in the south have excellent infrastructure, international connectivity and great cost of living. In India, you can go as cheap as you want or as costly as you want. To reduce your outgoing expenses, even consider buying an apartment which u can sell later at a profit.
I like to use toilets and not the side of the road
Well la-di-da, your royal highness.
Using a toilet is only for elite people? This is not the year of 1189 dude.
Don’t go to the USA then.
Buddhist city on the beach like Visakhapatnam seems nice, I think British railways doco showed a few others too.
Having visited 60 countries and lived in 4 others, wouldn't live anywhere outside of Australia.
Despite of raising cost of living, still the best overall balance of… everything - jobs, quality of life, freedom, climate, food, diversity, nature, etc.
Which 4 countries have you lived in?
freedom
Looks like you weren't here during the lockdowns, you couldnt walk down to Coles with your spouse, haha
Sounds sensible during a pandemic.
But for the record plenty of countries had lockdowns.
Mozambique
But it’s for people really wanting to get out of Australia
So goodbye - if Australia ain’t good enough for you, time for you to leave and take your dependents with you to a third world paradise
I heard Laos is super cheap too
Adios and don’t return
If you can’t afford to live in Australia,you seriously have a problem !
Hilarious people think they can survive in a 3rd world country or cut-throat developing one when they can't even make do in Australia.
Also worth remembering that if you are living well in a developing country you are doing so on others poverty in reality. It's fine if you realise that and do what you can for people, but otherwise I find it can de depressing.
Russia
Here is an unpopular opinion: US. I have lived in the US for more than 4 years and I can understand why at the first look many might abhor the thought.
* You need to pick the place you live smartly and the North-western US is a very good option, which is where many Americans go buy a ranch (farm) and retire It has the terrain and climate similar to the Nordic countries.
* like many pointed out here, COL in Australia is very much in control compared to Western Europe and on the same lines its even cheaper in the US though the currency is somewhat higher, (There might be things like good quality meat which are better and cheaper in Australia but US is still cheaper if you average what a person buys over an year like appliances, electronics etc).
* Culturally similar to a great extent to Australia, especially that part of US (from personal experience, I have done my masters in Montana
I've spent close to a year in the US, broken up into chunks.
I would never choose to make the country my home (and I could- my wife is from there). I refuse to have anything to do with a country where you have to so carefully pick and choose a city and suburb to live that isn't messed up in some obvious way, that has such glaring racial issues, and some crazy backwards view on medical care.
In fact, two years ago we had to choose a country to move to for the long term, and we deliberately chose not to make that the US.
I'd take Canada in a heartbeat though. Preferably BC, and not the flat bits in the middle.
Depending on the totality of your circumstances, I would be valuing quality of living over cost of living, at least based on the examples you have proposed.
If you are genuinely thinking in the way you have described, I would definitely be looking at regional Australian towns long before considering Turkey, Argentina, India, or Nepal.
after having travelled quite a bit and lived in a number, i still think australia is really good!
moving isn't hard, but what aboutthe visa/residency steps in the country you want to move to as well? visa / being a citizen or non citizen can have a great effectI like Malaysia for the food and relaxed culture - but too hot and humid for me
I like India for the food - but mostly too hot and humid, and too much crime and Hindu nationalism for me
I'm staying in Sydney - my preferred temperature, my own paid-off home, familiar things I like, and recently named the best place in the world to live - https://www.timeout.com/sydney/news/sydney-named-the-best-pl… - why would I want to live anywhere else ?
housing costs about $10Kpa for 2 of us (strata levies, rates, electricity, internet, water, insurance),
and most food is discretionary - we could spend very little but with enough in retirement we eat out like twice a week and probably spend about $5pa for 2 for restaurants, and similarly for other stuff like household grocery or other shopping.
I'm heading to India next month. What type of crimes should I be focused on?
Ride on a Volvo bus tour: On the bottom of every receipt is a statement:
Please help to make India a corruption free place by requesting a receipt for every purchase.@JamesLucas You could try pickpocketing to start with and work you way up to managing a boiler room.
Keep your valuables safe and focus on good things that the country has to offer! Some aspects of life, culture, and economy will blow you away, positively.. They say once you visit India, you want to visit it again.. Have a great trip, mate!
Cheers, looking forward to it. Was last there 20yrs ago and took the general class train from Mumbai to Delhi. Life changing experience!
@JamesLucas: That's the beauty really.. You can enjoy the best of food, luxury/hospitality, and nature and also experience and observe the general life around you at the same time. The country serves every type of tourist - be it a technologist, spiritual, adventurist, foodie, nature-lover, wildlife-lover, education-driven, shopper, festivities and vibrancy lover, history-lover, hospitality-lover, desert or snow explorer, or beach lover. Moreover, every state is a country in itself, each with a very distinct culture so it never gets boring really. Rare to find all this at depth within one destination.
Nice .. what you are saying is once the house is paid off, it only cost 10K PA to run it plus maintenance ? And 5K in grocery and other house hold essential for 2 people ? Is this even possible ?
El Salvador.
Thought about this a few times, HK would be good. Luxury of $200 flights to Japan, $800 flights to Aus.
Thats if you have a degree thats in demand.
HK is an expensive place to live if you want a western standard.
Yea thats why I said, knew someone who did a phd in accounting and came back to aus and bought a small farm.
really depends on your profession
Move out of capital cities/to the bush.
Maybe Thailand. Phuket???
When I retire I will live in Thailand during winter in Aus.
Find a beautiful Thai wife.
- Dubai
- Turkiye
- Bangalore / India
- Canada (if you can brave winter)
My family's from Malaysia, so I'd say there. Decent level of English spoken there in certain cities.
All those varieties of food. I would pick Ipoh or Malacca if I were to settle there.
Asian countries are cheap because of the conversion rate, Australia living cost is already getting pretty screwed but we're far from the worse yet. Why would you want to make living costs even harder for people in second or third world countries?
1 among millions is hardly going to mater.
How are you making it harder for them? If anything you will put money into their economy.
Not a hypothetical
I actually did it march this year
For context, 35 Male, house paid off in Sydney with a successful finance career - left for Vietnam to teach English
Most thought i was crazy..i will try to rationalise my reasonings below
Had enough of the rat race in sydney, i didnt need money that badly anymore, and with the teaching wages here, you can definitely have a very comfortable life
I eat out at nice places, travel, rent a nice studio near the beach. Dating here is also much easier than Australia
Vietnam is rapidly developing, heaps of expats here, modern amenities. Inflation here is barely felt (it feels like VN escaped inflation altogether?!). Australia has enormous issues right now with the cost of living and housing issues, amongst other things
If and when i have enough of this, i can always return back to syd and live mortgage free with a less stressful job
for now looks like its working for you but when its time to settle down, maybe you might have to come back..
Which city/town did you move to?
hi mate, im in Nha Trang
Sounds nice.
How did you line up the teaching work?
You can PM me if you like.@Bystander: Hey mate sorry for the late reply
essentially I just went to Vietnam and started applying. use facebook or apply direct to the schools
things you need before you go:
Any Bachelors degree (non negotiable, they wont hire you without one), TEFL/TESOL certificate, criminal record check
however, you can also apply from abroad and get a skype interview
you cant work in Vietnam without a TRC (visa) and the schools grant these. let me know if you need anything else :)
You're living in a prison planet my friend, some cells just have better views.
its only a prison, if you make it a prison.
I often fantasise about this but there are three things that would hold me back.
The education standards for my kids.
Being away from family.
But most importantly the health care. If you get a major illness, be prepared to pay a lot.crime?
security?
safety?
law enforcement?
corruption?we have it good in Australia, the only real downside is cost of living.
you can reduce cost of living by 90% but you will be in a country with other issues outlined above.
There is always a good and bad education anywhere in the world.
It is more about what style of education you believed in and the level of standard/quality vs the cost.
Public schools in Australia are much better compared to most developing countries for the price (which is free). To get better standards there you need to pay $$$.
Go to CHINA!! very low inflation there… even contracting….
you cant work in china, you cant buy a house in china.
The cost of living in a major city in a nice 1/2 bedroom apartment is stupid expensive.
Food is only cheap if you buy local.
Western food and comforts cost an arm and a leg.And visas are very specific and not for everyone for work.
Still waiting for the crybabies in this thread to move to a cheaper third world country
Do or do not…. There is no try
Come on the neg vote people do what you preach
You can move away from Australia, but it's hard to beat the overall quality of life and opportunities that Australia provides. In certain areas, there my be countries that do better than Australia (e.g. public transport, housing) but chances are they're worse off than Australia in other areas (environmental tourism, healthcare etc). Australia is a jack of all trades, it does many things well, making it one of the best countries to live in.
Now can we talk about increasing our motorway speed limits to 140km/h?
rural australia /thread.
Cambodia. Cheap and super friendly people.
I predict in the next 20 years entire towns will exist there purely for 1st worlders to retire there in luxury.
White boomers are already retiring in SEA with their SEA wives.
Heaven is an American salary, an English house, a Chinese cook, and a
Japanese wife.
Hell is a Chinese salary, a Japanese house, an English cook, and an
American wife.Japanese wives are known to cheat - so maybe not?
so those jav are actually based on true stories?
Hahaha, maybe.
My comment is based on some family members I have that lives in Japan, and thats what they hear from their social groups.
Also seen quite a number of those Youtube videos where people go around interviewing Japanese people asking if they've cheated, and majority of the people interviewed were. Of course they could've cut out the outs that didnt, but based on those vids and anecdotal stories.. I'd say theres a clear trend.
Hahahaha
I may be a bit ignorant but I would not have thought that any of the countries you mentioned had high standard of living.
I’d suggest staying in Australia.
Unless you can speak the languages in those countries.
DOWN-UNDER
Escape The Cost of Living?
WHICEVER HAS HIGHEST CHANCE OF DTH
Most places with cheaper cost of living also have lower standard of living. Pretty much anywhere in SE Asia, South America, Eastern Europe will be cheaper than here and will seem like ok places to live when you visit as a tourist. It's different when you live there and actually require the services, laws and regulations to work for you. I've spent considerable amounts of time in SE Asia and heaps of expats love it there but the corruption, lack of regulation on health, retail, laws in many areas, and transparency in government is severely lacking. Believe it or not, these are some of the things that make Australia a nice place to live. For example you can walk in to a doctor's clinic here and pretty much expect them to act in your best interest, in an ethical way. In some parts of SE Asia doctors are not afraid to upsell you on crap treatments you don't need or compromise on care for the sake of money.
I would say Thailand.
I'm an expat in the Netherlands for just under 5 years now, feel free to AMA.
I'd love to go back to Australia (the weather itself is a USP), but perhaps at least once for a holiday every year. The flight is just too long.
Cost of living here is high too, but generally food is A LOT cheaper (even cheaper in Spain and Germany). Public transport is cheap. Fuel is expensive. Owning a car (i.e. rego) is expensive. Electronics are more expensive. Housing is about the same as, say, Brisbane. If you're in Amsterdam it's Sydney level of insanity. Work-life balance is second to none (okay, maybe Scandinavian countries edge out by a little).
I'd say my salary after taxes is a bit better than an equivalent job in Australia, although having said that, my job is quite niche and there aren't many positions available (hence why I'm in Europe).
You can't do same investment property shenanigans that's going on in Oz (for better or for worse), so you really do pay a lot of tax that can't really be offset. So depending on what you're after, you might be better off in Oz. Having said that, you do get a lot back in terms of benefits. Childcare, education, health, infrastructure etc.
We actually do have most things pretty well in Australia, believe it or not. Another thing I miss besides the weather is the food in Oz. The variety and the quality of fresh produce is way better than european food (a lot of stuff is shipped/flown here from other continents). We're a multicultural country and we sorta just take the food we have for granted. My friend from europe recently went back to Oz with me and he was shocked to see like those sushi shops and the asian food stalls in the shopping centres. in northern europe people have bread for lunch and it's boring af.
if you're thinking of staying after 5 years in the netherlands, you can apply for permanent residency and immediately after being granted, citizenship as well. you need to do the dutch language test (currently at an A2 level which is like first year dutch), a society test and pay some money (i think around €200, a fraction of what we charge in Oz). with the permanent residency you're free to travel to any EU/Schengen country, and (don't quote me on this) may be able to convert to another country's resident permit should you decide to say, move to Spain. But with a dutch passport you can skip this step.
if you're looking for digital nomad visas, spain is offering those (or is about to), there is high speed internet in even the tiniest villages. great weather, great food and i would recommend doing it for a year or two. https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/30/always-wanted-to-… I really love spain, it's cheap (though salary is low also). the people are super chill and nice, and the landscape and weather remind me of australia. don't even get me started how amazing it is to cycle (road bike) in spain. i was so bored i entered a few races in spain recently :P
Thanks for the Spain tip. I will check it out. I hear Portugal is also popular. I’m not sure if the digital nomad visa applies to bloggers. It mentions having a contract with a company there.
Portugal to Spain is the same as New Zealand is to Australia. Same goes for Belgium is to The Netherlands. You'll find the cost of living relatively to income a bit higher and the infrastructure a bit more random. it's just really easy to get around in spain, it's convenient, nothing is complicated, people are flexible and everything is chill.
I think in the article (euronews has put out several of these, find them on google) on the digital nomad visa in spain. i think you can be self employed or actually be employed by a foreign company (i.e. not spain). so i think for blogging it is possible as long as you can demonstrate you have an income that will cover your expenses.
https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/04/21/want-to-move-to-e…
https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/01/31/spain-is-launchin…
https://www.euronews.com/2023/02/14/spains-digital-nomad-vis…the canary and balearic islands are really nice. i've been to almost all of them and i highly recommend them.
and while you're in spain you can travel freely to any other schengen country. in theory it's maximum 90 days out of 180 that you can be out of spain, but in practice no one checks.
Thailand
till you get sick and need to use their hospital and health care systems……….
then ull work out why it costs more here and be grateful to pay 20% more for quality service rather pay cheaper for 20% as much if your lucky and they dont end up killing you with malpractice.
If you like variety of terrains, cultural diversity, amazing vegetarian food (largely), and above all, plenty of jobs and a vibrant (rather fast booming) economy, then India is the place. Life in large cities can be a bit chaotic though unless you choose to live near work. As an economy and job market, India is much bigger and diverse compared to the smaller Asian countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia or Vietnam. Being an IT hub, it's a great place for high end white collar jobs. English literacy is much higher in urban centres and cost of living is manageable. If you WFH, it can be a good idea to live in the second tier cities for a less chaotic lifestyle. Internet connectivity and transportation is great across the country. All parts of the country also have a lot to offer in terms of tourism. Even a year can fall short to visit the whole country nicely.
Asian Countries. So cheap and insanely easy to get a wife.
A billion Chinese men disagree.
she isn't marrying with you if you arent gonna live in Australia.
Not true, many would prefer to stay close to their families whilst have a good provider.
Asia is pretty big and lots of them have very high cost of living. Like saying Europe is cheap to live in, but it is only the case in some Eastern Europeon countries.
I have travelled and had extended stays. I have seen plenty of places that I could live in. I have looked seriously at moving, but every time I come up with reasons to stay here.
The emotional reasons to live in a different place can be overwhelming. There are plenty of places that look like paradise. Until something goes wrong. It can be health systems, legal systems or even simple things like domestic issues such as plumbing and electricity repairs.
I spent time in Croatia, on one of the islands. Beautiful weather, food was cheap and we lived well. My son broke his arm one evening, and all medical services had closed for the day. The only way to get to a hospital was to find a local with a boat to go to the mainland. So what happens if you had a heart attack? Simple - you die. I ended up needing an extended stay in the hospital. The staff were all trained in places like Germany and were wonderful. The facilities were not. I was on the 2nd floor and was in a room with no air conditioning. Every day we received a bread roll and a jug of water. If you wanted food, there was a shop nearby, otherwise your family was expected to bring food. My bed had bloodstains, and my family was expected to provide bed linen. There was one shower and toilet on the floor, and when you used the toilet you could watch all the people walking on the street below, who could also watch you. The power socket near my bed was hanging out of the wall with wires exposed. And the walls showed bullet holes from the previous conflict, but the air-raid shelter was still working !! The equipment that I needed to be tested with was not available. The good part was that it cost me about $60 for a 3-week stay. But I had to wait until I got home to get proper testing, medication and treatment. And Croatia is in the EU.
Legal systems are also not the same, and we often read about people who have been locked up or faced huge fines for breaking laws that wouldn't apply here. Look at some Muslim nations that will lock up a woman who reports rape, because they consider that she has broken the law. Unless you are fluent in the local language, you are unlikely to be aware of the laws that apply. Having to pay "bribe" money to get a plumber, get a licence etc is not unheard of in many places. Not being fluent in the language can also leave you open to being scammed and ripped off.
Money isn't everything. A comfortable life also means being able to get through emergencies. If you do move, plan for the worst. Don't wait until something happens, like a death, health emergency or getting arrested. Find out beforehand. All of the benefits can be wiped out in an instant.
If you are in a major capital city here like Sydney, look at moving to a regional area. It will be cheaper to live, and you will still have access to the world with high-speed internet. If you are in Victoria, you can travel on the train to and from Melbourne for around $10 per day capped and can access all health services and legal services. If you are prepared to live a bit further out, there are country towns like Willaura where you can still buy a home for around $150k. Life is what you make it.Having been to Croatia a couple of times on extended trips and being born in Eastern Europe, I don't agree. Croatia is like paradise on Earth. Sure your hospital experience sounds horrible but surely there were others to choose from that provided a better level of service. I mean for $60 for three weeks what do you expect? I know of Croatians who are very happy living there and holiday at home because there are beautiful places everywhere and most are easily accessible. And many people throughout Europe are now moving/living in Croatia. Out of all my travels around the world, its the one place I could see myself retire apart from Australia, though the cost of living has increased dramatically so its no longer a cheap destination.
emergency room waits 8 hours plus ++, might as well travel overseas and get proper care!
If you are retired, I am interested to travel/live across America.
There are 52 States and hundreds of large cities. You can spend 6 months in each city and take in the different cultures, events and people.
If you run out of things to do, you can explore Canada and Mexico.I still prefer Australia.
1. I can't live in humid/hot places or I will spend my money on electricity bill for 24 hour AC.
2. Safety on road while driving and public places. It will affect your stress level.
3. Clean air and water. Money can't buy.
4. Fresh produce. The quality in Australia is high standard.So, even though it is more expensive in Australia, I will keep myself here.
- Safety on road while driving and public places. It will affect your stress level.
Where do you live, on a Creek?
NSW has reported 140 Vehicle-related Fatalities from Jan-May 23.
That's 28 Fatalities / Month in NSW alone, not calculating Injury-Accidents.- Clean air and water. Money can't buy.
Water filter does wonders
Fresh produce. The quality in Australia is high standard.
Yes but you pay through the nose,
What a foolish, ignorant comment.
Motor vehicle fatality rates in the sort of Third World countries mentioned here are anything up to 20 times higher than NSW’s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic….
You're on another frequency, come back to earth.
Comparing 3rd world countries to Australia is unbelievable.
I can also say, Hey, Australia's water is cleaner than Rwanadas'!Australia has an abnormal high number of accidents due to slow reflex people like you
@frostman: Whatever is in your pipe certainly isn't tobacco.
You seem to have missed the entire point of this discussion.
India and Nepal are supposed to have a low cost of living. How about the lifestyle? Mountain climbing appeals there as it would in the other countries mentioned.
This is a country where people still routinely die of dysentery and in mountain regions the primary source of fuel is dried cow dung. Kathmandu is an absolute choking shithole. So you can strike Nepal off the list.
Lovely people and great mountains. Visit. Do not live there.
And as for India, you can see lots and lots of migrants from India in Australia.
You think you know something they dont?They lived most of their life in India and did not want to live there anymore.What does that tell you?
I would statitistically think it has more to do with India have the largest global population, therefore you see a much higher immigration to all countries as a portion of the population.
I assume they still have well over a billion people still living in India
Same reason we see a lot more Chinese people in Australia. Simply as a percentage of the China population the immigration number is much higher.
I.e 1percent of 1.5 billion is much higher than 1 percent of 20 billion.
Nah. Doesn't account for why the middle classes of both countries are so keen to leave to Western countries. PRC is for those who are happy to have zero personal freedoms (except to spend money, if they're the lucky minority that have money), India is clearly not a land of great opportunity for the middle classes. Perhaps those retiring can do it easily in India, though I'm not sure where you'd need to live to avoid pollution, congestion and the like, short of moving to the Himalayas.
It's expensive everywhere.
We would have loved a small house in Tuscany, a place to grow our food in the back yard. I already bake Sourdough at home. .. so only eggs/butter / fish and meat to be purchased.. a dream.
Your mentality wouldn't miraculously change just because you moved places, so you may end up struggling again after a while but with even lower standards.
I would have to risk the safety component, but it’d absolutely be mexico. The food is incredible and stuff is cheap.
Problem is life is cheap literally with heads lined up by the side of the road and hundreds of bodies being found every now and then.
I think not.
TBH, unless you're into pubs/clubs/bingo/RSLs/ - the entertainment/tourism section of Australia is extremely bland and expensive.
Most places close by 4pm, and you're left with the above mentioned areas.Check out the campsites in the US. Montana alone has 13 campsites, all to see the elegant Moose, Bighorn Sheep, Elk, White-Tailed Deer, or even a Wolf - you name it - I've been there.
In NSW, you travel out West, 3hrs towards Dubbo (past Mudgee), vast land, all private owned and locked gates,
Even if you're lucky to find a plot of Federal-owned Camp sites, you'd be lucky to see a Kangaroo or a Wild boar.
A group of friends I know travel 4hrs past Dubbo to hunt vermin, and at times even with dogs, they struggle to get a pig or 2, last time they shot a goat.
Bear in mind, this is via paying someone to access their private land. You get some hillbilly jo-blow owning 500 Acres of Land and locking his gates.What chance do you have at seeing any wildlife except being bitten by some spider or snake?
The reason why most of the comments here are "If you don't like it, leave" - these are generally low-energy sheep, content in a little house with a big-ass mortgage of 40yrs+
Their weekends involve mowing the grass and going to Bunnings for DIY - DEADBEAT LIFE. If they're lucky they'll squeeze a little getaway to Surfers Paradise and call it a day.These people have not lived until they've travelled to the US, Spain, Morocco, and Bahrain. Seeing the buzz, food stalls open till midnight, history, and things to do.
When I arrived in Syd last summer, I asked 50 different places where I can rent a Jetski, it doesn't exist.
They showed me a business in Goldcoast where you rent it for some insane price, but it's limited to like 9 knots and you need to travel in a line, baahahahah
Yes 9 knots, Michael Phelps can swim faster.Mostly true, though inner Melbourne certainly holds its own for entertainment. The RSL/Bingo thing is true of most suburban and regional parts of Australia, as well as most of Sydney.
last time they shot a goat.
Hey … enough with the harming of goats on here!
Greece, Albania, Serbia or Caucasus.
Somewhere with structure, but not too many laws. I prefer smaller countries with plenty social life.the price of freedom is the cost of living. If you don't like it, offend and go to prison - no one there complaining of the cost of living.
how do you escape the cost of living anywhere in the world that cost close to nothing if you don't have enough savings to last you the rest of your life and no skills to work in another country? Not to mention minimum wage in a country where things cost close to nothing is also close to nothing.
Italy has this incentive, you move there, buy a house for next to nothing and you pay to renovate it.
This depends on a million things which are personal to you:
In no particular order:
- Level of discomfort you are willing to tolerate
- How much you earn
- Remote job vs onsite
- Financial goals
- Age
- Relationship goals
- How much savings you have
- Friends/family in australia
- Type of food you like (this is a big one people dont really consider)
- Whether you can speak the local language or not (being able to speak the local language increases your enjoyment by orders of magnitude)
- Duration of the move
- Are you looking to get a residency/passport
- Are you looking for tax benefits
- Sports/hobbies/activities you are interested inMost people never think these things through but they will learn when they make the move. Ideally you travel to the countries you are interested in before making any decisions.
https://nomadlist.com/ is good for ideas of the usual areas people relocate to as a digital nomad.
If you can work remotely and earn aud/usd and spend in say thai baht then your cost of living will be low vs your income.
Theres no perfect country (australia near perfect tho) and its all about optimizing for the things you care about and the things you are willing to compromise on.
South east asian countries such as thailand, vietnam are common choices for australians as its relatively close and amongst the cheapest good choices in the world. Alternatively it'll be the south american countries which are a lot further away. Eastern europe far away as well and isn't really that cheap compared to south east asia.
Food is a big part lots of people dont think about. If you like asian food and choose to move to eastern europe then you'll be frustrated from the food options there. Dont forget we have to eat 3x a day and if the food isnt to your liking you'll gravitate towards fast food.
In my opinion if you are young <30yo then just be a nomad and travel and try a variety of things and discover what you like.
If you are 35+ you probably don't want to jump around as much and might choose a spot long term. As always depends on your goals.Just came back from a year living in Argentina - was absolutely living the dream on an Australian income. You want to be earning in any currency that's not the Argentinan Peso though. Inflation was 107% in the year I was there but as things got more expensive, the blue dollar went higher, so I think it didn't change much how things cost when converting currency anyway.
Sounds great. Is it easy to rent an apartment there? Did you use public transport or have a car? What is the best strategy to change money there?
I rented through an (international) serviced apartment company which made it easier when I first arrived and for ongoing support (in english). I toured properties with a few different companies. Surely not cheaper but it was through my work.
I would used the FordGo to rent a car on a daily rate when I needed it (similar to GoGet-type company) but you can get around BA very easily by walking, city bikes, bus, underground, train or uber/taxi/cabify - all very cheap, ie the bus/train is 30 pesos (~10 cents), you really don't need a car at all.
I used two ways for money, 1- I had a stack of USD (crisp $100s only) I took over from Aus, good for emergencies, and changed to pesos at the local cambio. 2- Sent myself money from my Aus bank account via Western Union weekly and picked up from my local cambio. and adding a third- the tarjeta rate was introduced in Dec last year, so you can now use international cards at a good exchange rate (not as good as blue rate but makes online purchases much simplier).Thanks. Can you recommend any apartment companies to rent through? Do they have a 6 month/12 month lease, bond, etc. Will they be able to speak English?
@BluebirdV: Companies I looked at properties with were: RentinBA, Toprentals, Switchplace, OasisCollections. They all speak English. I had a very flexible month-to-month arrangement, I think there might be a minimum on some of the properties or companies.
I lived in Palermo Soho (highly recommend) but Palermo Hollywood is also great.edit: I had spoken with these companies before arriving via email, but didn't pick somewhere to live until arriving and touring with the agents.
Sorry if i missed any information on how to move to different countries and live there? Don't the countries now allow unless you apply for work visa? Which countries can u just move there? EG if i decide to move to thailand can i?
Which country are you living in now? Just want to make sure I don't recommend somewhere worse…