Cheaper from Amazon UK - out of stock again.
Just under $29/TB for a 16TB external drive which should have an Exos X16 ST16000NM001G 16TB (7200 RPM) drive inside.
A great option if you want to fill your NAS. No order limit from what I can see.
CamelCamelCamel.
Problem is, the prices aren't coming down significantly. They remain stubbornly high for the smaller capacities, and that just means the larger capacities just come in at higher prices and stick there.
A 3TB drive costs the same today as it did 10 years ago, and so on up from there.
And given that the manufacturing cost for a 16TB disk isn't appreciably different to a 3TB, what should happen is the prices fall to under $200, replacing the old lines - but it doesn't because real competition was allowed to be removed from the market.
in 2010 a 4TB HDD was USD250, this is a 16TB drive for USD300, that seems an improvement to me.
The price of a 4TB drive in 2010 was ~$169 - I know, I was buying then.
@sane: Last year i was buying Seagate Expansion Desktop 4TB HDD for $99. So yeah there was an improvement there in the past 10 years.
Right now it's $120 at Officeworks.
Remember it's all about what the market wants. If there is an uptake in higher capacity hard drives means more production which in turns means a lower price to the consumer.
@sane: Maybe at a single point in a sale.
We bought a lot of 4TB HDDs in 2010, and they were not $170.
Even if somehow you got them for that price, 16TB would have cost you $676, which is still much, much more than the current 16TB deal.
@Scrobo: Probably got it grey import from like Amazon UK or Amazon USA for that price in 2010 during some special once in a year sale like Black Friday. I can't see how any one could have got a 4TB HDD for $169 from an Australian store during that time.
@hollykryten: There is also inflation to consider, which, if it were at the same price would be another 15% on top, rather than being the same price.
@ONEMariachi: Yeah and i also do remember that the Australian dollar was not too far from at parity with the USA dollar around that time. So you could have bought things grey imported from overseas for cheaper. Actually at the end of 2010 at 31 Dec 2010 it was AUD 97c = 1 USD. Plus grey imports were tax free under $1000.
@hollykryten: Yeah that's a huge consideration! Didn't even think of GST addition to overseas purchases. Very likely had an effect of a 10% increase on Australian stock.
The price of a 4TB drive in 2010 was ~$169 - I know, I was buying then.
You’re mixing up your dates. 4TB was a bleeding edge capacity that wasn’t even generally available in 2010 and prices were in excess of $1000. They came into competitive price and common access around 2012 when they were still over $300! 2TB was closer to the price you are thinking.
Ozbargain Seagte 2TB deal end of 2010
It isn't just a lack of competition.
Production costs will not fall because investment in hdd manufacturing would be coming to a halt. It's a dead technology soon to be obsolete
So tape drives or solid state?
Can get a 100TB for the low low price of $40kUSD.
@Caped Baldy: How much was it 5 years ago?
How much will it be in 5 years.
Refitting a plant is a long term investment, how will they make their money back
It is not even remotely close to a dead technology.
@greatlamp: They are recoverable way more often.
But in general I agree with what you're saying.
Until ssds are priced well enough to meet datacenter needs (whole of life..ie: including failure rates and power use) they will be in demand. Their use in budget pcs probably only has a short remaining lifespan though.
I agree. Back in 2010, 2TB drives were $100. 4TB drives were not the sweet spot so the prices varied and were often high.
Today 2TB drives are still $100. Its amazing that they are even still being sold (as are 1TB drives).
If the cost to capacity improvements we saw prior to 2010 had continued, today 8TB would be the smallest drive at $100.
It might have some thing to do with the manufacturing complexity of making high capacity hard drives which means a high price. The HDD manufacturers have to manufacture multiple platters to make even an 8TB HDD. Whereas 2TB HDD only had like 2 or 3 platters at most. An 8TB HDD has six platters. That is costly to make. Imagine what a 16TB HDD has would it have twelve platters?.
Yep, just found the receipt for my 2TB WD Elements from Officeworks in 2011 for $98.
Have been working with IT for 30 years - can't think of any other case of an 'investment' as good as this.
Screens are probably about as good as it gets.
The manufacturing cost is only one part of the actual cost though. So while you may be right that the actual physical production cost is similar, the cost of the equipment used to manufacture a new line is not the same, the cost of the QA process is additional, the cost of marketing it is additional and ultimately the cost of actually developing that 16T is way way more.
Manufacturing something is relatively straightforward but developing whatever it is you're manufacturing isn't - and isn't available for free. It still has to be paid for. How is it paid for ?
A chunk comes out of the actual product - a 16T drive in this case. But a (smaller) chunk will come out of all the other drives being sold as well (3T, 6T, 10T and so on).
And keep in mind, the 16T drive in turn also has to pay for the next drive being developed (e.g. the 20T).
Amazing price for 16tb
Its a good deal if you want the exos x16 specifically. Less than half the price of bare drive locally.
thanks OP :-)
Exos Drives are meant for 24/7 Operation. They are Enterprise Drives. Unless you're suggesting because their in an external caddy they should not be used 24/7. The Seagate Archive Drives are designed for data backup.
Are the Exos drives loud, or similar to the Ironwolf line?
Agreed. I think the only thing which makes me pause/reflect is I wonder whether Seagate deliberately bin their drives and include some kind of inferior Exos drive in these external cases… but at least from what I've seen with my own Exos X16 drive which came out of a Seagate 10TB expansion drive, I haven't seen any obvious issues.
Boom roasted
Member Since
3 hours ago
obvious troll
Being a new member doesn't automatically make us a troll! If you disagree with a comment then justify it, don't just make childish comments. I own four of the drives, wouldn't put them in my NAS but do use them to backup the RAID.
OzLocutus's comment above is pretty much on the mark, people shouldn't deem all models from a manufacturer (ie Seagate) as 'bad'. It depends on the drive model inside the enclosure. If the drive inside is an Exos, its a data center drive designed for 24/7.
SMR drives are not suitable for NAS (correct), but there are no indications whatsoever that this one is SMR.
I'm gambling. Ordered 12 to upgrade a second of my 12x4tb raid arrays to 12x16tb. Love the Exos Drives I've already purchased!
May i ask what nas system you using? Like qnap, synology or a custom pc with free nas etc.
With 12 drives they've probably got a server or custom set up.
Why does it seem that everyone on OzBargain has a server?
@Caped Baldy: Haha then there's some people here who seem to just run excessively large Plex Media Servers. I thought my desktop PC having Sonarr, Radarr, Jackett and Plex with 1TB of movies and TV shows (30 movies and like 20 TV shows with all seasons) was massive. I could probably even do away with 20 of the movies and 15 of the shows.
@Void: Now take those 30 movies and 20 shows with multiple seasons, and scale up to 4K Remux quality, you're often looking at anywhere up to 50-100GB per movie, and I'm not even sure the file sizes for TV episodes a that level. Potentially 5-10GB per episode.
@Morkai: But why would you get a Remux version? I cannot tell the difference between slightly lossy x265 encodings and Remux at my monitor, let alone from the couch.
@Void: Sometimes comes down to availability and whats being torrented - not everything is well ripped and compressed down in a x265 format. And if people dont want to hunt around and have the available HD space then why not. Some lossy x265 encodings are done very poorly - however if they are done right then to the naked eye its almost impossible to tell.
@TightTerry: Yeah I have lots of filters to make sure they are good quality, but if there is no other option then I'd go for the larger one.
@TightTerry: Lol. So instead of buying it legitimately people will happily spend $5 extra storing it. That's so backwards.
@justtoreply: Who says we haven't purchased?
It is much more convenient saving a copy and having the files on hand almost instantly and get to skip those anti piracy messages.
I've got some movies in DVD, Bluray and 4k Bluray. I consider that backwards…
@Caped Baldy: I've got literally hundreds of purchased Blu-ray and UHD discs, but I prefer to watch them from my server with a Netflix-style interface, and not have a shelf of ugly disc covers that don't have the disc in it when you go to watch it.
@Scrobo: Similar boat except my collection are in boxes. Easier binging.
Trying to set up an ambilight which is proving to be quite the experience.
@Scrobo: Same. It’s been in my todo list to rip my hundreds of BR movies and catalogue them but from watching tutorials on YT it doesn’t seem as straightforward or automatic as say, ripping an audio CD in iTunes was.
@jace88: How are you doing it?
May be worth just downloading copies of blurays from less reputable sites.. and using something like plex or jellyfin.
I highly recommend FileBot to rename files.
@Caped Baldy: Honestly that's the biggest issue for me - it's easier to download from a dodgy site with subtitles/compression/metadata than it is for me to rip it myself.
I bought the recommended USB Bluray drive for this purpose and was planning to use my gaming rig to do all the heavy lifting with the encoding, but even then, it's still quite a hassle.
@Morkai: Start looking at AV1 encoding. I've been playing with it, it's mindblowing the quality you can get out of it for the storage space…
@TrevorX: Everything of mine now is H264. I'm assessing H265 atm, but not sure that my Shield will play AV1.
@Morkai: No, it won't, it's hardware limited. Currently AV1 is CPU resource intensive, encoding takes ages, and we're still a while off hardware encoding SoCs. MediaTek have decoding hardware ready for phones, so we should start to see media players like the Shield with AV1 decode some time next year.
So no, if you don't have a spare machine with serious CPU grunt sitting idle that you can let it crunch through movie encodes for about a week on a full length 4k film, and you don't have anything to play it either, then AV1 remains out of reach for a while. My TV PC has a core i5 that's more than capable of AV1 decoding in software and I have a number of Xeon machines I can throw some encoding time at every now and again, but I don't have enough idle time to do anything more than play around with it at the moment.
@TrevorX: I do have an Ubuntu server running docker (plex, Sonarr, Radarr and others) with a 4th Gen Core i5, but I've also recently purchased a second hand GTX 1050ti to throw in there for encoding/decoding purposes.
Thats a LOT of data.
Wont be too far down the track and people will be talking in Petabytes
Soo many ebooks ;)
Did you purchase them all in the one order or seperate order? I'm curious to know will customs hold the package to pay some sort of import tax or whatever?
Im considering buying 6 myself.
Separate orders makes no diff. Customs can sum the values. You would need different addresses.
However, doesn't amazon US collect GST so it doesn't matter?
GST is included in the price. GST is payable for items below $1k nowadays.
Custom fee is separate from GST
Is this in an enclosure or is it a bare desktop hdd? I read it as a bare drive..?
"16TB External Hard Drive"
Its in an enclosure
Far out, like how hard is it to look at the picture.
So explain the difference between "Portable" "Desktop" and "Desktop HDD" ?
Portable are smaller drives and USB powered
Both desktop drives require external power. The difference is supplied software and USB hub capability.
If you scrolled down you would see a table outlining these differences.
One has a case around it.. it's enclosed, to be used as a USB hard drive, some have proprietory connectors as well, some dont.
Desktop HDD is just the pure inside bit that you can use with a Sata cable and power..
It's like asking what's the difference between buying a lawn mower and a lawn mower engine.
I'd imagine most of the reviews would left by people using them in their caddy/enclosure, right? Not shucking them for internal use. I've had experience in the past with the USB controllers on some externals bogging down and getting really, really slow after a while.
I've found this review on amazon.ca. It's pretty clear that its a SMR drive which works adequately until it gets around 50% full, after that it gets as slow as molasses. I think I'll pass.
Exos Drives are CMR
Exos are not SMR.
Excuse me but these would have a Seagate Barracuda Pro 16TB HDD in it and they are CMR. Any Seagate Expansion Desktop 10TB or over has a Barracuda Pro CMR HDD in it.
Seagate literally doesn't make SMR hard drives in 16TB size.
The Expansion Desktop 4TB is a 5400rpm SMR HDD so that's why it was slow at write. But once you go over 8TB in size for Expansion Desktop then it becomes a fast 7200rpm CMR HDD.
the complaints are all for the much smaller drives, not relevant to the 16TB version
who knows what drives are in this but seagate doesnt make 16tb SMR drives
those amazon reviews are different drives, ie 2 or 8tb which can be SMR
https://www.seagate.com/au/en/internal-hard-drives/cmr-smr-l…
Just pulled the trigger on 2. Sure hope it is an Exos drive. Will report back. Should arrive late Aug. If i haven't updated you guys someone DM me as a reminder.
I just received my drives guys. How do i check?
update::
Looks like i got the X16! yay
https://imgur.com/0YKtHKM
Might be optimistic for this to be a 7200RPM drive if the WD ones have 7200RPM drives modded to run at 5400RPM. Wish we could know for sure what's in these, but the deal looks good.
I do know for a fact that the Seagate Expansion and Backup Plus 10TB drives contain the Seagate Barracuda Pro 10TB 7200rpm HDD. So the 16TB model will most definitely contain the Barracuda Pro 16TB 7200rpm HDD.
However you do not find Seagate Exos hard drives in a consumer desktop such as the Expansion Desktop. It is Barracuda Pro.
Sorry, I think you are mistaken there in assuming it's always going to be the same drive just because it was at a point in time.
eg. I opened up my Seagate Expansion 10TB to find an Exos X16 10TB drive.
I do not believe there is a 16TB Barracuda Pro model available yet (can't find where I read this in Reddit or on OzBargain) so it seems likely you'll get one of the higher tier drives than a Barracuda.
Yeah my mistake. It's probably the Exos 16TB in this one. Either way still a good 7200rpm HDD.
@hollykryten: (deleted since no longer relevant)
I think the whole Exos X16 inside is a bit of a lottery in the smaller capacities but at least anecdotally from reading online, the 16TB is likely to be an Exos X16 (unless someone finds something different and corrects us!).
my 10TB expansions are the following:
Seagate BarraCuda 3.5
Device model: ST10000DM0004-2GR11L
Serial number: ZJV69RCS
LU WWN device id: 5 000c50 0c41b83b3
Firmware version: DN01
User capacity: 10,000,831,348,736 bytes [10.0 TB]
Sector sizes: 512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation rate: 7200 rpm
Form factor: 3.5 inches
If I take out the hdd, does it void the warranty?
Yes - unless you can put it back together without breaking it. You might want to google how to shuck these and if it involves breaking or snapping any part of the enclosure. If it doesn't then you should be fine putting it back together.
$481.29 to gamble on a 16TB 7200rpm vs 16TB SMR. It will either be great or disappointment. Knowing my luck, it will be best that I don't buy one (so that they will have a better chance to be PMR 7200 rpm drives).
AFAIK seagate only do CMR/PMR above 10TB
According to AnandTech (based on an article written back in 2019 - 18 months go):
In addition to its Exos X16 CMR+TDMR hard drives, Seagate is also prepping host-managed 18 TB SMR (shingled magnetic recording) HDDs, which is powered by the same platform.
So, it could be CMR (PMR) + TDMR (which still feels like a form of SMR, except with most, if not all of its deficiencies addressed).
There's no gamble at all as for a fact that Seagate do not manufacture any SMR hard drives in 16TB size. The last size HDD which they did make SMR was the Barracuda 8TB. Over that size and it's CMR . By the way the Expansion Desktop 16TB will have the Barracuda Pro 16TB CMR at 7200rpm. So you've got nothing to lose. Oh except if you don't make backups. :)
It will either be great or disappointment. Knowing my luck, it will be best that I don't buy one
Jesus man, after seeing your comments in the Dell 165hz screen and this one, you gotta have a more positive outlook on life!
Don't need this HDD to be honest. So many unused toys and unplayed games. I just don't produce that much data at the moment.
It's not about having a more positive outlook. It's about stop buying toys that I don't need. Buying what seems to be bargains at the time, but ended up not using them is a waste. All my other family members are using streaming services.
The drive employs TDMR, which is an attempt to address an issue with SMR. It is PMR + TDMR setup.
Yer man I bought that Dell monitor on an impluse too. Do hope they ship it or a better deal comes along eh.
It's about stop buying toys that I don't need.
True that, tempted to change order quantity from 2x to 4x, but then some life goals, grand plans (or call it 'excess') never gets realised in a reasonable timeframe, then you gotta sell stuff at a loss.
I appreciate you mentioning the technical points and caveats by the way, helps to look past the gloss of great deals.
@payton: Yeah, I would like to have one of these, but it will be a waste for me or I will use it as an excuse to buy more gears so I can do 4K video processing faster.
So purposely picking on these is an attempt to make sure my brain says no, rather than letting my heart overtake the brain once again to buy yet another shinny new toy. It's weird, I am more interested in this than $5/month streaming service that gives me 100+ channels.
Price is great for people who have real need for 16TB.
Prices are really coming down on these.
Looking to build a 2nd NAS purely for a secondary copy of my primary NAS, very tempted to get a few of these and call it a day.