COVID-19 Tracking App Mega Discussion Thread

[Deactivated] on 15/04/2020 - 01:37
Last edited 27/04/2020 - 10:57 by 2 other users

Mega Thread for COVID-19 App discussions (Description Updated 27/4/20)

Please use this thread for any discussions about COVID-19 app discussions, rather than making a new thread. Also see below for other specific/related threads.

Related links:

Health.gov.au - General information
Coronavirus Australia - Apple App
Coronavirus Australia - Android App
COVIDsafe Contact Tracing app for Apple
COVIDSafe Contact Tracing app for Android

Threads:

COVID-19 Megathread

Wearing Masks -Wearing Masks 2 - Shops with Masks
Lockdown Activities - Lockdown Tips & Tricks - Lockdown Deals - Lockdown - Entertaining Kids - Shopping List -
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AMA with a Doctor - Parcel Delays - Buying/Selling Home - - Gym - House Inspections - Private Health Insurance - Energy Providers
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Schools/Universities - Keeping Kids at Home - Keeping Kids at Home 2
Your Job - Work from Home Companies - Pay Cut - Qantas Staff - Tips to Protecting Yourself (Financially)

Other:

OzBargain's Guide to Self Isolation (Deals & More)
Deals for Healthcare Workers

Mod: Original Description:

… for a 'good cause'?

The Federal Government believes restrictions on the community could be eased in the months ahead if there's more testing, greater surveillance of those infected by the coronavirus and much faster tracing of those they've had contact with.

It is developing a mobile phone app with the private sector to help monitor Australians' daily interactions. The app will use the user's GPS to do so.

Edit : This is how the app will work according to the Government Services Minister :

When you download it, you will be reuquired to enter:

  • your name
  • your age range
  • your postcode
  • your phone number

He said when people were within 1.5 metres for 15 minutes, the app via Bluetooth, would record the other person's name and phone number.

"It would stay securely encrypted on your phone," Mr Robert said.
"If I was confirmed positive, my data goes up to a central data store, only to state health officials, no-one else, and then they could rapidly call anyone I had been in close contact with."

Poll Options

  • 148
    Yes.Why?
  • 251
    No. Why?
  • 2
    Other
Mobile COVID-19

Comments

      • seraphim2017 on 20/04/2020 - 16:05

        Incite has already determined your future!

    • Falkner on 20/04/2020 - 15:40
      +13

      Hasn't government department data been compromised before? This is prime information that malicious parties would be dying to get their hands on. My understanding is that only a select few ministers will only be able to access the information and they actually don't store your location data, but still it's rather worrying that you can have this intrusive app on your phone and knowing the reputation of the federal governments online infrastructure, I'm just not sure how safe it will be?

      It's a hard no.

      • havebeerbelywillsumo on 20/04/2020 - 15:51
        +2

        Sums up my feelings, a "no" vote.

      • GG57 on 20/04/2020 - 16:16

        To be fair, I don't think any government ministers will have access to the data (thank goodness).
        But the people that work for those ministers will have access, and could provide the ministers with any analysis requested.

    • triviums on 20/04/2020 - 15:53

      No for now, but if I am going into areas that have high number of community transmission cases then yes I will.

      I am concerned about the privacy issues, but am willing to put those aside if the probability of me getting COVID-19 or being in close contact with someone with COVID-19 is high. Right now I barely leave the house except for groceries, that is likely to change in the near future and I will reassess the pros and cons then.

      • Chandler on 21/04/2020 - 09:22

        I am concerned about the privacy issues, but am willing to put those aside if the probability of me getting COVID-19 or being in close contact with someone with COVID-19 is high

        You do realise that this app is for contact tracing. It will NOT (directly) reduce the risk of you contracting COVID-19.

        It will (hopefully) increase the chances of the health departments tracking down everyone who came into contact with someone who did have COVID-19, which will in turn (hopefully) reduce community spread.

        This is all assuming both the person with COVID-19 and EVERYONE they came in contact with (and everyone THEY came in contact with…) have the app.

        If everyone got the app, I can see it working as advertised.

    • klonky on 20/04/2020 - 15:53
      +17

      If the government was transparent then maybe, but at the moment no. The Minister in charge said Centrelink was hacked when it wasnt, claims Robodebt is perfectly ok, breached ministerial code of conduct with visits to China, has received many gifts from donors and lobbyists, claimed $38k for home internet expenses, used tax payer funds to run his online church. This guy is shady AF
      Not to mention data breaches and the Health Records debacle

      • try2bhelpful on 20/04/2020 - 16:11
        +10

        Raiding journalists to find their sources. Wouldn’t this app be right up their street for that one. These two phones were near each other for more than 15 minutes, hmmmm, I wonder if that is the person who is the leak.

        They can give us a lot of assurances but can we really believe them? If this was being proposed in China then they same people championing it would be decrying it bigly.

        I don’t use any form of social media where it is easy to reveal my name. I don’t use Twitter, Facebook, Instagram or any of the other social media sites. Facebook requires your phone number, well screw that.

        Personally, I think the take up will be poor because most people just can’t be arsed.

        • shaybisc on 20/04/2020 - 18:59

          If smartphones were around in the 70's I am confident that neither Bob Woodward or Deep Throat would have been stupid enough to take them to their meetings.

          • try2bhelpful on 20/04/2020 - 22:40
            +1

            @shaybisc: The Government was, at one point, going to make it compulsory to download the app and take your phone with you.

            • shaybisc on 21/04/2020 - 07:48

              @try2bhelpful: Ha ha ha ha - how would they enforce that?

              • try2bhelpful on 21/04/2020 - 07:58

                @shaybisc: Spot checks. See someone of “interest”; ask to see their phone, with the app on, check if it has been talking to other phones, etc. They could also compare how People’s phones track in the phone towers compared to Communications data between phones. Things are possible, but I agree that trying to make it compulsory was a very stupid thing to say in the first place.

                • monkeyfood on 21/04/2020 - 20:45

                  @try2bhelpful: never charge your phone but take it with you

                  • try2bhelpful on 21/04/2020 - 20:52

                    @monkeyfood: But they might have a battery to test it with. Frankly the whole thing is absurd. This app will be a white elephant with almost no uptake. The young won’t download it and a fair few of the oldies either won’t know how to or won’t have the right type of phone. I would love to listen to some of the recordings from the help desk.

    • seraphim2017 on 20/04/2020 - 16:04
      +10

      Double edged sword (and I'm in a field where this data would be useful in helping us identify contact quickly, so although I delete my google history etc every few months as a matter of not giving valuable data away for free to businesses, I would install it). You have no idea what a ballache contact tracing is.

      On the one hand, you already give google apple and facebook WAAAAAYYY more data than this, and I mean way more. This isn't tracking your actual GPS location as such, what it seems to do is allow a BT handshake between devices on a timer of 15 minutes (close contact timer) which, if a person was then +ve within X days of that handshake, would let the people involved know they could be at risk and to check for symptoms. If THAT person is symptomatic and is tested, again, their phone handshakes in the time SINCE there source exposure could be tracked. It's not a minority report style tracking, the government has trouble organising any form of IT, they're just not that sophisticated. Half of the people on here who run VPN's for spoofing Netflix location are probably more capable at system security design!

      Issues I would have, and I'm sure the non-tinfoil hatters would as well, is the governments general trustworthiness, their reliance on any deidentification, deletion of historical data, and outsourcing of data sets. I'm not a techy so am unsure if the BT radio introduces handset vulnerabilities but I'd hope they've done something to secure that so it can't be cloned etc.

      The tinfoil hat brigade, well, you can't vaccinate stupid. Anyone who thinks they have any form of real privacy nowadays (*and is on bargain = has an internet footprint) is kidding themselves.

      • Diji1 on 20/04/2020 - 16:27
        -2

        Anyone who thinks they have any form of real privacy nowadays (*and is on bargain = has an internet footprint) is kidding themselves.

        The foolish "I lost some internet privacy by using a website so I'm not going to bother anymore" argument.

        • [Deactivated] on 20/04/2020 - 16:38

          I think it's more a case of "I give away this much data daily playing games like Pokemon Go" if you want to play devils advocate.

        • abb on 27/04/2020 - 16:14

          The foolish "I lost some internet privacy by using a website so I'm not going to bother anymore" argument.

          More of a "I've lost MORE privacy already to people who want to profit from it, so I can accept this temporary thing for social benefit" argument.

          I'd like to see a survey of how many people saying "NO" have already got Uber, or WhatsApp, or use Google search…

          (FWIW, I wrote a letter to my MP arguing against the encryption backdoor laws, but I think this app is probably ok)

      • Gronk on 20/04/2020 - 16:30
        +6

        I think trustworthiness is going to be an issue for a lot of people.

        First, trusting that the Government will only use the data for the explicit purpose they've publicised and second, trusting that an appropriate level of security has been implemented around the stored data and that this is not just another solution built by the lowest bidder.

      • mlcn on 20/04/2020 - 18:23

        Yes, you are definitely right that people giving out much more personal data, than this. But anyone can go and delete it / throw away smartphone / etc. without consequences, but how to trust that govt will not enforce that afterwards? I am not leaving house without a smartphone unless I want to. But I don't want to be forced, by any means and for any purpose.

    • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 16:20
      +5

      Lol no way.

        • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 16:57
          +5

          I'm 35.

        • franco cozzo on 20/04/2020 - 17:15
          +4

          …THATS SOME FUNNY ORIGINAL SH!T YOU GOT THERE KID!

    • Mechz on 20/04/2020 - 16:28
      +6

      If they can't figure it out with the already over-reaching metadata access laws then f~xk em.

    • Diji1 on 20/04/2020 - 16:30
      -5

      Wierd how so many people are against this but they voted to have all of their metadata recorded for the Government. The metadata is so much more intrusive.

      The usual schizophrenic response I suppose.

      • try2bhelpful on 20/04/2020 - 16:33
        +10

        So did we vote for it or did the Government just bring it in. I’ve never voted for this mob in my life. Don’t blame me.

        • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 17:10

          I also didn't vote for it.

      • SBOB on 20/04/2020 - 18:43
        +1

        Voting for a particular party isn't voting for every single on of their policies…

        You can't honestly say you agree with every single one (yes all of them) of the greens policies

    • N1NJ4W4RR10R on 20/04/2020 - 16:34
      +2

      It's open source, right? If that's the case and it's found to be fine/anonymous (or as much as an app like this can be) I'll probably download this.

      Maybe anyway. As others are pointing out, our govt is technologically illiterate at best.

      I believe google/apple and MIT are also working on solutions like this, so if that's right and they're available here I'd go with them. To be honest I'd probably trust them more.

    • Tasmaniac on 20/04/2020 - 16:36
      +1

      People must think the government sit around in a dark room plotting ways to enslave the nation. If it helps everyone get back to normal then sign me up.

      • Mechz on 20/04/2020 - 16:51
        +2

        They don't, corporations do it for them

    • jimdotpud on 20/04/2020 - 16:51
      +9

      No. They can f#ck off.
      we're on a dangerous path if we accept this sh!t. it's not far from this to what is happening in china. social credit system. government says which zones, flights, trains, whatever, you are allowed access to. please show your green symbol to get in here.

      once in place, this will be the "new normal" as they keep saying

      • [Deactivated] on 20/04/2020 - 17:08
        +2

        Why would Australia want a system like that in place? That's the kind of stuff best kept for Facebook :p

        • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 17:11
          +5

          The people are easier to control, the people in power can get away with more etc.

          • [Deactivated] on 20/04/2020 - 17:19

            @brendanm: You don't think something like that might adversely affect immigration?

            • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 17:22
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: No, why would it? Immigration is a great source of low cost labour. The more people compares to jobs, the more competition for the jobs, and the lower the pay has to be, and the more profit the company makes.

              • [Deactivated] on 20/04/2020 - 17:31

                @brendanm: Immigration and growth of the country (at least for Australia) is important. It's not just for taking job, it creates more jobs.

                • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 17:51
                  +2

                  @[Deactivated]: Why do we need infinite growth? Why does the world need info item growth? It's not for the good of the majority, or the earth itself. More people are needed, as they need more consumers, and more people to make trinkets for these people to buy. Company grows, makes more profit, shareholders get dividends. The Ponzi scheme continues.

                  Do you honestly think the government does things for the benefit of the citizens?

                  • [Deactivated] on 20/04/2020 - 18:14

                    @brendanm: Because it's good for the economy of our country? Besides I'm talking about immigration, not baby farming. I'm not saying we need to over populate, there are many Commonwealth countries with people who share our ideals and would help our country grow. (And somebody moving from one country to another has no affect afaik on overpopulation of the earth unless they're coming from countries with restrictions on family size I guess)

                    • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 18:24
                      +1

                      @[Deactivated]: Good for the economy of thee country, or certain people in it?

                      Have you checked how the world population is going?

                      We don't even have the infrastructure for the people we have here already, and all the short sighted governments do, is enough to try and get elected the next time around, never anything to actually build the nation.

                      Why are we letting companies make billions upon billions in profit by digging stuff out of the ground? That wealth should be used for the country.

                      • [Deactivated] on 20/04/2020 - 18:35

                        @brendanm: Why do you keep going back to world population and why are you bringing up mining? This seems to be going way off course.

                        • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 19:38

                          @[Deactivated]: World population has an effect on our population, and immigration.

                          Mining is to demonstrate that the government doesn't have out best interests at heart, and not to trust them.

                          You are the one that bought up immigration.

                          • [Deactivated] on 21/04/2020 - 07:04
                            +1

                            @brendanm: So would you be happy to see millions die for less population? I brought up immigration because you seem to be convinced that we're being governed by China.

                            • brendanm on 21/04/2020 - 07:26

                              @[Deactivated]: Feel free to point out where I mentioned anything about China?

                              I'm convinced the the government does things for themselves. As I mentioned, none of them do the long term infrastructure projects we need, as it doesn't look good at the next election cycle.

                              Look at history. People in power like power. Given too much (as in overreaching laws), it gets very bad for the general populace. Feel free to read a book.

                        • jimdotpud on 20/04/2020 - 19:43

                          @[Deactivated]: tell me the last time we learnt from history? you know that saying "history repeats itself"?
                          governments very rarely do anything for the betterment of the people. this app is no exception, it's all about control.

                          • [Deactivated] on 21/04/2020 - 07:05

                            @jimdotpud: Really? Governments rarely do anything for the betterment of the people. ✌️

    • wiipantz on 20/04/2020 - 16:59
      +3

      Bahahaha… Since they have been so tight with all our other data. Yeh, nah!

    • iforgotmysocks on 20/04/2020 - 17:08
      +7

      Which government gets the data if you install this on a Huawei phone?

      • EightImmortals on 20/04/2020 - 17:43

        Isn't it all one big global government just with different 'branches' anyway?

        • brendanm on 20/04/2020 - 17:52

          Praise globalism

    • Resistor on 20/04/2020 - 17:16
      +6

      Needs an f*** no option

    • qwerty on 20/04/2020 - 18:19
      +1

      100% yes if it doesnt drain batteries too fast

      You already are being tracked each time you walk into a shopping center if you have nfc , bluetooth or wifi on - let alone what google / apple is tracking .

      Also dont forget all the personal information on flybuys and woolies cards .

    • SBOB on 20/04/2020 - 18:41

      Depends how it's implemented…

      If the unique person identifier is something like my phone number or email address, and the entering of the 'I have corona, tell these other people' flag isn't a tightly controlled 'can only be entered by a doctor' scenario then no… I'll likely not install

      If it's purely anoymised person identifier numbers (ie purely random number generated per personal app install) and only maintains 14 days of 'these are the other anonynous numbers' you have been near based on Bluetooth LE beacon events, AND (big one) the only people that can log a 'this anonymous number has tested postive' is hospital/testing facilities (ie you test positive, the doctor can then take your randomly generated identifier and enter it into a central database), and the app purely checks every so often against a central database for 'this anonymous number has been flagged as positive, you should go get checked/quarantined as your phone was within X metres of them for y minutes, please call this number and book in for testing'…..
      Then I don't see a privacy issue and will install it.

      • abb on 27/04/2020 - 16:19

        If it's purely anoymised person identifier numbers (ie purely random number generated per personal app install) and only maintains 14 days of 'these are the other anonynous numbers' you have been near based on Bluetooth LE beacon events, AND (big one) the only people that can log a 'this anonymous number has tested postive' is hospital/testing facilities (ie you test positive, the doctor can then take your randomly generated identifier and enter it into a central database), and the app purely checks every so often against a central database for 'this anonymous number has been flagged as positive, you should go get checked/quarantined as your phone was within X metres of them for y minutes, please call this number and book in for testing'…..

        It's pretty close to this.

        I think the last step is more of a push notification thing though, rather than your phone being told the IDs of everyone who tests positive, you just get told "your ID has been found in the contact log of someone who tested positive".

        (This is a better privacy than your way IMO as it's harder for a non-infected person to deduce who might be infected)

    • randombrick on 20/04/2020 - 18:47
      +5

      No. Governments always use crisises to push through privacy busting legislation/processes. Very easy to do it when people are panicking about terrorists, paedophiles, viruses, etc. We may not notice the impact immediately but these things stick around and screw things up even generations later.

      Mind you - I happily give my data to Google. However, I am not comfortable handing info to the government. Yes, I am a hypocrite that way.

      • jimdotpud on 20/04/2020 - 19:34
        +3

        "never let a crisis go to waste"

        difference with google is you have a choice or at least in some cases an illusion of choice. once the government starts mandating this stuff we are screwed, end of choice.

    • whooah1979 on 20/04/2020 - 19:00
      +3

      temporary privacy invasion.

      People are ignorant if they think that this will be temporary.

    • bigdog989 on 20/04/2020 - 20:31
      -1

      I can understand peoples concerns, the government is as bad as used car salesman when it comes to keeping promises.

      If they implement this using Bluetooth then I’m fine with downloading the app. They use the same technology to calculate travel times around cities already. Ever seen portable signs on the side of the road telling you the travel time? These look for Bluetooth devices at both ends and if they find a match they can calculate the time difference. Do this often enough and you get a pretty good real time estimate of travel time.

      Now obviously the app is a bit more advanced but there are ways it could be implemented without sharing any sensitive data. If the app didn’t ask for any user data would that change people’s minds?

      Anyway that’s my 2c

      • cwongtech on 21/04/2020 - 00:05

        These look for Bluetooth devices at both ends and if they find a match they can calculate the time difference. Do this often enough and you get a pretty good real time estimate of travel time.

        Bluetooth!? You know there's a setting that turns off Bluetooth being discoverable?

        Also, many business laptops choose to permanently disable Bluetooth because they consider it a security risk.

        You do know GPS data is much more accurate and readily available…?
        The only time GPS data may not work is within an office building with barriers to line of sight to a person's phone, that's the only time I can see Bluetooth working, yet Bluetooth is extremely limited in application

        Ever seen portable signs on the side of the road telling you the travel time?

        A more practical approach would be to use GPS data or car plate matching like they do for average speed cameras for truckies.
        That, or you can also use the Toll Gate transaction data to measure the time between an entry point in a toll road to the exit point where the vehicle leaves.

        Also, there's induction coils in the middle of the road that serve as counters for how frequent vehicles travel
        They're also positioned to trigger speed cameras, and also help traffic lights know there's a vehicle waiting at a light, and you will frequently find them right under a boomgate of a carpark (that's how they detect whether a car is there or not).

        In case you've never seen them before..

        • bigdog989 on 01/05/2020 - 19:19
          -1

          In terms of the road signs I mentioned, these need some way of identifying people from one end to the other and can be placed randomly on the road side. Just like the COVIDSafe app you don’t need everyone to have Bluetooth turned on to start getting a good representation of what’s going on. But obviously the more data the better.

          Those induction coils in the road are good at telling you a car has passed but it can’t tell you which car has passed. Number plate recognition is good but expensive. For something like a travel time indicator it’s over kill.

          In terms of the covid19 app GPS is super accurate but would take a lot of computation to determine where everyone is in comparison to everyone else… at all times. Bluetooth doesn’t give you a location but it does give you a list of who you’ve been near. Which is exactly what this app is all about.

          Yes anyone can turn Bluetooth off or not install the app. But in doing so you increase the risk of contracting the virus and not even knowing it…
          That’s the choice everyone is free to make themselves…

          • [Deactivated] on 01/05/2020 - 19:29

            @bigdog989: What makes you think Bluetooth is incapable of location? Location is actually a big selling point of BLE from STM, Silicon Labs, Nordic, TI and more. They fill trade shows promoting it. There are demos, videos, installations.

            Here is an official SIG promotion, yet you say BT doesn't provide location.

            https://www.bluetooth.com/learn-about-bluetooth/solutions/lo…

            • SBOB on 01/05/2020 - 19:47

              @[Deactivated]: location, yeah…. indoors… in controlled mapped areas with enough BT base stations to achieve location determination ("low-cost indoor positioning and location services so")
              Far from the same as driving down the road for the road signs user case the user mentioned.

              its not going to (nor could it) provide location data for users of the covid tracing app.

              • [Deactivated] on 01/05/2020 - 19:57

                @SBOB: "(nor could it) provide location data for users of the covid tracing app."

                Absolutely not true. It technically can, but cost and logistics will probably prevent it. Depends entirely on the server side setup, whilst you are preoccupied with just the client side. Care to guess whether the entire server side will be open sourced? Trilateration is possible from either the client or server.

    • [Deactivated] on 20/04/2020 - 21:27

      Just on principle that the government does not by default get to insert themselves into my personal life, it's a hard nope.

      If I intend to mingle in crowds or hang around the city, I would see why some people would be agreeable to it but I won't be doing these things yet I may still have to surrender my privacy?

      Yeah. Nah.

  • abc123z on 20/04/2020 - 17:30
    +1

    Amongst many other things, I couldn't see them NOT also using it at some point, to try to fine or charge app users who were infected and had possibly infected another person and who might be suspected of breaking the rules. If a person ended up dying that could be traced back to someone who was using the app, then obviously that person using the app is going to be asked to explain what they were doing outside their home, was it within the allowed purposes, were they practicing social distancing and so on. With the rules changing every day, and often open to interpretation I feel it would be very dangerous to end up infected and to be linked to a person that ended up dying unless you had a rock solid proof and confidence that you were following the rules.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/04/2020 - 07:50
    +1

    Hmmmm results were a lot closer in the thread that was just merged though still leaning towards no. I think it was around 70 no, 60 yes, 15 maybe.

  • Bozman on 21/04/2020 - 08:13
    +1

    From what I’ve read, the OP is wrong and should be corrected. It doesn’t use your GPS data.

    As I understand it, using your phone’s Bluetooth, it records other phones with the app you’ve come into contact with for a significant amount of time. That is all.

    If someone gets confirmed positive, they have a list of people who may have been infected. It doesn’t tell them where you interacted with that person or how.

    Why has everyone got the tin foil hats out about this? If you’re worried about misuse of this, why have a smart phone at all? Apple could currently have more info than this on you.

  • yummypinacolada on 21/04/2020 - 08:33

    I guess its not about whether we are willing or not, but it really depends on how worse this pandemic gonna get. Pretty sure if this keeps getting worse, the government will enforce this tracking app to everyone.

  • Allwentmarching on 21/04/2020 - 08:54
    +5

    I would be willing to do it if everyone else did. But the issue is that the ones who dont take social distancing seriously are also the ones unlikely to download the app. So a preaching to the choir kind of scenario IMHO.

    I also keep bluetooth off unless I need it as a security / battery saving measure.

    I applaud the government for trying. I mean hey it may help.

    • [Deactivated] on 21/04/2020 - 10:31

      Exactly, I wonder what the crossover is between those who won't help for whatever reason and those ignoring social distancing.

    • Allwentmarching on 21/04/2020 - 11:01

      ETA I mean ones not social distancing would not download, not that everyone who doesnt download is not social distancing. I do understand legit privacy concerns!

    • cwongtech on 21/04/2020 - 11:10
      +2

      But the issue is that the ones who dont take social distancing seriously are also the ones unlikely to download the app

      Excellent point. Like the Bondi beach people.. after everyone went into full lockdown and WFH mode..

  • CtrlAltSpoods on 21/04/2020 - 10:09

    Does this app even ask for location services? And if so, is there a source saying so?

    From what I've read, the app just rotates broadcasting Bluetooth beacons and reads other beacons, then if someone gets corona they mark all their beacons as infected for the past 2 weeks and it notifies all other devices that have recorded those anonymous beacons from the past 2 weeks.

    SAPOL had already enquired to use tower triangulation to try and determine where SA's first confirmed cases had been, and that is a lot worse than what people seem to be worrying about here in my opinion.

  • Gronk on 21/04/2020 - 10:20
    +5

    Have we all forgotten that it's only been (barely) a month since Stuart Robert tried to claim that the Centrelink online service had been hacked (or was under DDoS attack), when in fact it was just horrendously under-resourced.

    If you think the same thing won't happen here - that the solution will be under-funded and the government will lie through their teeth if they're caught with their pants down - then you're living in a dreamland.

  • Diji1 on 21/04/2020 - 14:25
    -3

    notifies all other devices that have recorded those anonymous beacons from the past 2 weeks.

    How is it an anonymous beacon if beacons that previously came near that beacon can be contacted?

    Interestingly about 10% of Singapore's citizens downloaded the Government's COVID19 tracking app and apparently it allowed that country to flatten the curve very successfully.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/20/covid19_apptracking…

    Israel turned military intelligence that it was using to keep 2 million Palestinians in a sort of concentration camp against it's own citizens.

    • ssquid on 21/04/2020 - 15:12
      +1

      Have you actually looked at Singapore's infection rate? Their curve isn't flat, it's trending upwards at an alarming rate.

    • Gronk on 21/04/2020 - 17:14
      +3

      What I find really interesting is that Singapore is a country with a reputation for being a bit more accepting of these types of authoritarian initiatives, yet still only 10% of their population signed up.

  • randombrick on 21/04/2020 - 14:41
    +1

    Looks like the government is backtracking on its claims of fully open source - https://twitter.com/Spoonyman/status/1252358916496691200

  • sarahlump on 21/04/2020 - 19:55

    Ethically are you helping people or hurting people? does having the app do more good, or more harm? (some suggestions for harm could be increased visibility to big brother, it's hard to roll back something like this.)

    • monkeyfood on 21/04/2020 - 20:49

      just wait till a bluetooth exploit comes out and all your citizens are belong to us now

  • worrierwan on 22/04/2020 - 00:57
    +1

    I want to but i dont trust governments when they receive extra power. Look at America and the Patriot act. The act's intended purpose has been far expanded, reducing civil liberties and continues to be extended despite initally being a temporary measure. Whilst I know that America and Australia are different, I'd think that this app could have lasting impacts beyond the COVID-19 pandemic

  • xylarr on 22/04/2020 - 11:43

    I want to see what the government's "but terrorism" argument is.

    Say there's someone that the authorities decide is a terrorist, and they want to trace people they associate with. Would that be acceptable?

    What about tracking a murderer?

    What about tracking a pedophile?

    My view is that if the government says it is acceptable, then the use of this data is not only for health tracking, and I would be wary of mission creep.

    If they truly can legislatively guarantee that this data can only be used for infection tracing, then I'd tentatively be ok with it.

    But really, it will creep.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/04/2020 - 12:29

      Legislation can be amended . Not that they would need to when they can just invoke the national security trump card.

  • treebytheriver on 26/04/2020 - 16:23
    Merged from Will You Download The COVIDSafe App?

    Will you download the app? What do you think?

    A summary of the article:
    Australia's coronavirus tracing app, dubbed COVIDSafe, has been released as the nation seeks to contain the spread of the deadly pandemic.

    Using Bluetooth technology, the app "pings" or exchanges a "digital handshake" with another user when they come within 1.5 metres of each other, and then logs this contact and encrypts it.

    The application will have two stages of consent that people will have to agree to: initially when they download the app so data can be collected, and secondly to release that data on their phone if they're diagnosed with the virus.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-26/coronavirus-tracing-a…

    Google Play link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=au.gov.health.…
    App Store Link: https://apps.apple.com/app/id1509242894

    Privacy Policy: https://www.health.gov.au/using-our-websites/privacy/privacy…

    • sw0rdy on 26/04/2020 - 16:26
      +8

      no

    • [Deactivated] on 26/04/2020 - 16:33
      +1

      OP, what is your estimation of the number of people with compatible phones in Australian society?

      Backflip on open sourcing:

      "
      Your government has said that you'll release the source code so all the pointy heads, the geeks, and the nerds can go through it line by line basically to see what it what it contains and whether those promises are actually true. Are you prepared to do that still?” pressed Carlton.

      “The first thing we want to do is make sure that we're protecting the safety and the privacy of individuals. Everything that can be released, will be, for sure,” Hunt answered, opening the door to doubt.
      "

      • treebytheriver on 26/04/2020 - 16:38

        Good question. My old phone wouldn't have supported it, so that is a true criticism.
        I guess they have to start somewhere.

        • bongom on 26/04/2020 - 17:03
          +1

          Requires Android 6.0 and up so it's a no from me as I'm stuck on 5.1.1.

          • sir_bazz on 26/04/2020 - 17:13

            @bongom: Which device?

            Not able to install a more current ROM?

      • ssquid on 27/04/2020 - 01:15

        Pretty shifty when it needs location permission on Android, despite claiming to not actually track your location. Yes I know it's required to get access to Bluetooth MAC addresses, but that shouldn't be necessary either if it's all meant to be anonymous…

        • [Deactivated] on 27/04/2020 - 01:20

          It definitely requires access to Bluetooth, it's connecting to phones around you and sharing an encrypted temp ID. If either party in the interaction get's the virus then both persons are known to haven been in contact. It's automated contact tracing, it's not completely anonymous but it has been designed to protect privacy to some extent.

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